The Gypsy Rose Obsession | From PRETEND

0:15Speaker 1:Pushkin, I actually have no idea where we're going with this, but I don't either.

0:24Speaker 2:I was like, I wanted to hop on a call with you because I'm like.

0:28Speaker 3:What's this about?

0:31Speaker 1:You really can't mistake that voice. Gypsy Rose Blanchard somehow became the most beloved convicted murderer in America. Half of the country loves her, the other half never forgave her. Maybe you've watched the HBO documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest.

0:56Speaker 4:Gypsy was in aol chair. She had leukemia, and she was having seizures and she had to be too fit.

1:02Speaker 5:And then gradually that story fell apart.

1:07Speaker 3:Things are not always as they.

1:10Speaker 1:Or maybe you discovered her story from the Hulu series The.

1:13Speaker 6:Act, or you could have binged her reality TV show on Lifetime.

1:25Speaker 1:I don't want people to look at you like, this is Gypsy Roll.

1:29Speaker 3:She's famous.

1:30Speaker 5:I don't killing her mother shouldn't be famous for something.

1:33Speaker 2:Like that, Exactly. I hate that the F word famous.

1:38Speaker 1:Chances are you just kept seeing her face pop up on your for you page.

1:42Speaker 2:I went to prison for eight and a half years because like my own mom, oh my god.

1:49Speaker 1:Or maybe you've been living under a rock and don't know who the heck I'm talking about, So here's the short version. Gypsy Rose Blanchard spent twenty three years in a wheelchair, hooked up to a feeding tooth breathing machine, had her teeth yanked out, put under for surgeries as she never needed. Told she had cancer, muscular dystrophe, epilepsy, leukemia, you name it. Turns out that was the cure because when police found her, she had walked out of the house on her own, and all those health issues poof, they were gone.

2:23Speaker 2:I've been incarcerated for eight and a half years. I will be released on THRACA.

2:28Speaker 1:In December of twenty twenty three, Gypsy Rose Blanchard walked out of a Missouri prison after serving less than ten years for the murder of her mother, and America lost its mind. People were curious, like genuinely curious. Her TikTok and social media accounts blew up millions of followers just within days of her release. So yeah, America's sweetheart is also a convicted murderer, and depending on who you ask, she's either the most sympathetic person alive or the most dangerous woman on the internet.

3:11Speaker 7:You know, Gypsy Rose Blanchard right, Okay, it's all alive a purpose at Sarah, the fact that her mom did all that to her and made her get these surgeries, and like all.

3:23Speaker 3:Of it it was just a defense.

3:25Speaker 7:But it's all a lie.

3:29Speaker 2:How long do you guys think it'll take for everyone to turn on Gypsy Rose Blanchard because you guys love it right now?

3:35Speaker 3:Like that's just like queen, Have you guys seen all the backlash? You should have kept her locked up?

3:40Speaker 8:No shit, y'all were the ones that tried to make her famous for ending her mother's life.

3:48Speaker 9:Someone else is going to do something horrible and their excuse.

3:52Speaker 2:Is going to be well, she got away with it.

3:54Speaker 5:Well, now look at all the money that she's making.

3:56Speaker 7:Off of Van.

3:59Speaker 1:The official story, the one that the media told us, is that Gypsy Rose Blanchard is a survivor, a victim of one of the most extreme cases of medical child abuse this country has ever seen. Gypsy says that she underwent approximately thirty different medical procedures forced upon her by her mother, d D.

4:18Speaker 3:Blanchard. Pick a disease, any disease.

4:22Speaker 1:Chances are that d D told a doctor that Gypsy had it rare diseases like chronic conditions, terminal diagnosis. By the time Gypsy was eight years old, her mother had checked nearly every box on that list, and the doctors believed it, because why wouldn't they. She showed up with a bald kid in a wheelchair who couldn't walk, couldn't eat, could barely function without her mother right there. And I've combed through Gypsy's medical records, which were posted publicly on a true crime content creator's Patreon page. Her mother, d D claimed that Gypsy had already been through four eye surgeries to correct the cross the eye that kept coming back, a feeding tube inserted directly into her stomach because d D said the gyps couldn't swallow properly, a procedure to remove her saliva glands in her neck because did said that Gypsy drooled too much, And a surgery where surgeons literally wrapped part of your stomach around your esophagus to stop acid reflux. All of this on a little kid.

5:28Speaker 1:The medication list and these same records run over a page. Anti seizure drug, so she's been on since she was three months old, volume for pain delivered through her feeding tube, asthma, and Haler's steroids, allergy medications, and then there's this one. Someone documented in her allergy list that Gypsy had an anaphylactic reaction to processed sugar. Anaphylactic reaction to process sugar as in sugar, the thing that's in basically every food on earth. A life threatening allergic reaction to sugar is not a.

6:03Speaker 3:Real medical condition.

6:05Speaker 1:It doesn't exist, but somehow it made it into her medical chart because d D said so and nobody questioned it.

6:14Speaker 3:And the teeth.

6:15Speaker 1:By the time Gypsy was a teenager, her teeth had rotted out and had to be removed. A young girl wearing false teeth, writing around with a shaved head and a wheelchair. That's the official story. But an entire community online decided that that was a lie. They flipped the whole narrative around. Suddenly it was Gypsy who was the manipulator, Gypsy who fooled the doctors, Gypsy who used her voice, her looks, her tears to con everyone around her, including her mother. And let me tell you, this community is not small. They're very loud. I've spent the last few months trying to figure out which side was telling the truth, and spoiler alert, it's a lot more complicated than either side wants to admit. You are listening to the Gypsy Rose obsession. I'm Javier Leva, and this is pretend stories about real people pretending to be someone else. I was completely oblivious to the outcry. Again, Gypsy Rose Blanchard to me, I have always considered her a victim of Munchausen by proxy.

8:15Speaker 1:That poor girl. I can't even imagine what her childhood was like. I mean, I didn't agree with her decision to murder her mother, because no one deserves to be murdered, but I can't imagine why she resorted to violence. I just assumed that everyone felt that way about her.

8:30Speaker 3:The boy was I wrong.

8:32Speaker 5:Hello, It's Andrew Dunlop and today on Nobody Should Believe Me, we have a very special episode that is a full circle moment for me my conversation with Gypsy Rose Blantern.

8:44Speaker 1:Andrea Dunlop released a two part interview with Gypsy on her podcast, Nobody Should Believe Me. If you've never listened to Nobody Should Believe Me, go check it out because Andrea has seven powerful series bringing Munchausen victim stories to light.

8:59Speaker 10:I remember a lot of people asking me, are you going to interview her? Like why hasn't she been on your show?

9:05Speaker 1:Honestly, I couldn't believe that it took seven seasons for Andrea to interview Gypsy because Gypsy Rose Blanchard put Munchausen by proxy on the map. I didn't even know Munchausen by proxy was a thing until I heard about Gypsy's case.

9:20Speaker 10:Gypsy's case has brought a lot of awareness. I think that she is actually a very articulate representative of it and is very thoughtful in the way that she sort of explains it and explains her healing process in the after effects.

9:36Speaker 1:When people think about medical child abuse, they think of Gypsy Rose Blanchard.

9:41Speaker 3:She's the poster child.

9:44Speaker 5:This should not be on gypsy shoulder.

9:46Speaker 10:She is a person.

9:47Speaker 5:We should not put the onus on one person.

9:50Speaker 10:To be a representative or an advocate for a.

9:56Speaker 5:Form of abuse just because they've experienced it.

9:59Speaker 1:You know, I was curious about Andrea's interview with Gypsy, so I listened, and then I started reading the comments. An old boy, I cannot believe the backlash.

10:09Speaker 3:Let me read some of these comments to you.

10:11Speaker 1:Are you kidding me. You call yourself an advocate, but decide to bring a murderer on your podcast. I can't sit by as we make martyrs out of murderers. As a longtime listener, I'm extremely disappointed by the lack of real research on gypsy Rose Blanchard. Andrea, all your credibility has done shot out the window. You just ruined your career by not doing your research. She lied about everything, hundreds of comments just like this. This was my first exposure to the anti gypsy community. So I started going down that rabbit hole. What research were these people talking about?

10:49Speaker 1:What were Andrea and I'm missing from this conversation? And before I knew it, I found myself in the deep end.

10:57Speaker 9:Every single thing you've ever heard out of their mouths about this is a lie. Okay, So for all these years we've been told this story of just massive abuse.

11:05Speaker 5:She didn't need any of the things.

11:06Speaker 9:That were done nder her. She has no long lasting effects. All of that correct, right, That's a lie. That's all a lie.

11:14Speaker 1:Suddenly I started seeing some questionable things online and asking myself the same questions. Inconsistencies in her stories home videos that nobody was supposed to see a version of Gypsy Rose Blanchard that looked nothing like the girl that I thought.

11:28Speaker 3:I knew. It wasn't enough for me to pump the bricks.

11:32Speaker 1:Did we all get the Gypsy story wrong? Was everything I knew about this case a lie? So I had to go straight to the source, Gypsy Rose Blanchard. Gypsy and I exchanged a few emails, and within a few hours, I'm not kidding, we were.

11:48Speaker 3:On a call.

11:49Speaker 1:I was unprepared for this conversation and it took place very early on in my research.

11:55Speaker 3:I have to be honest. I thought she was lovely.

11:59Speaker 1:All I know about you is the HBO doc, right, And so I was like, I had no idea that there.

12:05Speaker 3:Was this like other world, like you're living in it. But I had no idea.

12:10Speaker 2:You know, it's it's insane. It's it's called the gyp verse.

12:14Speaker 3:Oh, like the verse, like the Marvel Yeah, like yes.

12:18Speaker 2:Like the Marvel verse. So it's it's it's two communities and one is pro gypsy and one is anti Gypsy.

12:27Speaker 3:Which one which one's louder?

12:30Speaker 2:I mean, I would say that the anti Gypsy side is probably the loudest, and I think that goes for for any sort of hater community. So a lot of times if someone posts a video in support or just having a neutral opinion, you can't even have a neutral opinion about me because you will get death threats.

12:54Speaker 3:You're walking into the crosshairs.

12:56Speaker 2:Yes, yes, you're walking into literally a war zone between these two communities.

13:02Speaker 1:Without even knowing it, right, because like, if you're a pro you're if you're in the pro gypsy verse, you're you know, you're sympathetic to like the abuse that your face and all that stuff, and like it would never even cross your mind that there's this other universe that will just pounce on you. Right, the Internet did what the Internet does.

13:25Speaker 3:Her nose was too big.

13:27Speaker 5:Gypsy Rose has been spotted for the first time since her nose job, and it turns out she didn't just get a nose job.

13:34Speaker 1:And her teeth, the same teeth that her mother had yanked out when she was a kid, became content too.

13:40Speaker 5:I'm going to Children's Marcy Housepital the Sea.

13:43Speaker 3:Mike didnist for my teeth.

13:46Speaker 1:She can't even post pictures with her in a swimsuit without getting comments.

13:50Speaker 8:Gypsy Rose is up early around six thirty am this morning.

13:53Speaker 3:Posting herself in a two piece bikini.

13:57Speaker 1:Content creators mocked her voice.

14:00Speaker 3:Hey babe, did you at Gypsy Rose? Compression for me d is.

14:09Speaker 2:Yeah, to kiss the frock, to meet the Prince. I'm on high right now. You can't bring me down. Right now he's eating a browny and later he won't be eating me.

14:29Speaker 1:In fact, people impersonating her became a trend on TikTok.

14:34Speaker 5:Can't bring me down.

14:35Speaker 3:I'm on high right now, look at my best, Like, you can't take that from me.

14:41Speaker 2:I just I was wearing a wig and a lot of my videos because last year and the year before that, like I bleached my hair so much because I was so excited to try new things with my hair that I didn't, you know, realize that bleaching and bleaching and bleaching was going to fry it as bad as it was so unfortunately, you know, my hair was down to a must of a butt when I got out of prison and I had to shave it all off, and you know, the anti side was like, well, wouldn't that be a trigger for you? And the logical side of me is of course wanting to defend myself and being like, do you want to walk around with fried hair is kind of a necessity. So I used a wig for a couple of months, and I'm just starting to kind of like be okay with this being my authentic self.

15:35Speaker 1:For those of you listening on the podcast feed, Gypsy is sporting a pixie cut.

15:41Speaker 3:More mature, you know, yeah, old. I know you're not.

15:45Speaker 5:Supposed to ask ony five.

15:47Speaker 1:Okay, you're not supposed to ask a woman that I was curious.

15:53Speaker 3:A lot has.

15:54Speaker 1:Changed since being released from prison two years ago. She's been married, then she got divorced, and now she's a mother. She has this whole new life and her only career really is being Gypsy Rose. One of the main criticisms against her is that she figured out a way to monetize and profit off of her mother's murder. She has a cameo account, a book deal, multiple TV shows. Gypsy is everywhere, and if you ask the Internet, they will tell you that Gypsy is rich. It's so much easier to just hide and make it go away, you know what I mean?

16:32Speaker 3:Do you ever think about that.

16:33Speaker 2:I've tried, and it's I've tried getting offline, deleting my social media. When I first came out of prison, I gained millions of followers on my TikTok and Instagram. Well, in the process of me, you know, going through my parole time, there was just so much harassment on my parole officer that he said, you know, would probably be best to you know, maybe get off of social media. So I deleted my Instagram with like nine million followers. So I made a new Instagram quickly gained a lot of followers on that, approaching one million now. And I still maintain my nine point three mil on TikTok, and I've had a love hate relationship with this account. I've deactivated and reactivated at this point, my followers just know it's part of my behavior. But when at a time where I was not on social media for.

17:31Speaker 1:Like a month, it turns out that the leading your account doesn't really make you anonymous. When your face has been on every screen in America, you.

17:40Speaker 3:Have a very distinctive voice.

17:42Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, do you ever get like spotted or like how do you deal with that?

17:48Speaker 8:Oh?

17:48Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean thankfully, nobody in person has ever came up to me or my family and been mean in any type of way. In fact, it's the opposite reaction it's like, oh my god, healthy, like and what's crazy is And I don't understand. I don't understand it. But a lot of my fans are you know, ninety five percent is women, five percent are male, And that's even from analytics from my socials. But it's like teams, some as even young as ten will stop me at the mall or the grocery store, and I'm kind of like, are you old enough to like what is your parents donting you watch?

18:35Speaker 1:But isn't that kind of weird though, like that you have, like just the fact that you have fans, isn't that kind of weird? What are they a fan of? I'm just saying, like, you're not a performer, you know what I mean, Like you're not.

18:47Speaker 2:Sully right exactly. And I thought, my I've thought that to myself too. I mean it, I've always kind of just been appreciative that they've been nice. But even I don't really understand it, because yes, I can understand, you know, watching my story and feeling you know, a passion, but a fandom I don't get, and that maybe it's a it's a social media thing. Oh my goodness, this girl has you know, almost tem meon followers. I don't know. I don't, I don't.

19:23Speaker 3:I think the answer is a lot simpler.

19:25Speaker 1:It's it's just this parasocial relationship, right, you don't know them, but they know you and maybe they are sympathetic to your story, and so it's like you're famous, you know what I mean?

19:38Speaker 3:Like and so famous?

19:39Speaker 2:I guess because I never call myself famous. I don't call myself a celebrity. I call myself like well known. If I if I'm addressing it, I'll say I am well known in the public eye, because that's the facts of it. You know, you get the recognition, you get media coverage, you have the following.

20:00Speaker 10:What is that?

20:01Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, You're well known in the public and with that comes a lot of responsibilities and burden too.

20:10Speaker 1:After the break, anti Gypsy protesters take to the streets of New Orleans and blast Gypsy and her child.

20:18Speaker 3:That's after the break.

20:31Speaker 2:The anti Gypsy side fortalized a hate campaign against me and was raising money fundraisers go fund me to put up billboard signs in my neighborhood in the city that I live.

20:48Speaker 1:Here's a clip of an anti gypsy activist putting up wanted style posters around town.

20:55Speaker 8:Yeah, if you dislike schmurderers, send Tammy a gift.

21:00Speaker 1:If you are here for.

21:01Speaker 8:Some street justice, since the criminal justice system failed us, send Tammy some gifts.

21:08Speaker 2:And even after I got off a parole, the day that I got off a parole, I wanted to celebrate with some friends of mine. So we were like, we're gonna go to New Orleans. We're gonna have a drink, We're gonna have a good time. So the anti side was busy for two days straight putting up flyers at all the bars a murderers in town, warning business good, give a buck, gifty, give a fuck now wife job buck you guys, because I had a great time in New Orleans anyway. And then me and my friends are driving.

21:43Speaker 2:We come across a mobile bell ward and they have a picture of me and my daughter and my partner from when my daughter was born, and I flipped out.

21:57Speaker 1:We're in a mobile billboard pick up minors.

22:02Speaker 2:My minor child, child, minor child. I hindsight, I should not have even looked at it. I should have just let it be. But instead I got out of car and I went on live stream and I was flipping the haters off and just reacting to it. I'm like, this is my minor child, Like, my minor child should not be up on a billboard, especially when I'm not plastering her on social media. Gypsy roses baby space has now been revealed, and I probably really shouldn't.

22:36Speaker 8:Because it's a baby, but everybody's gonna see it anyway because it's out there.

22:40Speaker 1:So here's the picture. Well, it feels like crossing the line, right, Like it's one thing. It's one thing to have issues with you and you've chosen to be public and whatever, blah blah blah, but to like bring a kid, I just feel like, yeah, now you're crossing a line. Gypsy told me that she doesn't have a safe space, not even her home.

23:04Speaker 2:Every single residence since I've been out of prison has been docks on the internet. There's currently a video of my house where somebody drove by my house and recorded it and it's like this is where they live. I'm an average person. I'll go to Walmart. I'll go to the grocery store, get what I need, drive back home and not think two things about it. Obviously, someone must have followed me to know the street.

23:30Speaker 3:That's so scary.

23:32Speaker 1:These people are obsessed with her, and not in a good way. Her critics say that Gypsy didn't serve enough time, that she got away with murder, while the man who actually did the stabbing, Nick go to John, is sitting in a Missouri prison serving life without perole. His appeals so far have been unsuccessful. Barring some kind of miracle, Nick will die in prison and Gypsy is out there living her life to a lot of people that math does not add up. I have to say I'm fascinated by Gypsy Rose Blanchard. She's one of the most complicated people I've ever reported on, But I'm not interested in doing another story about a fandom gone wrong.

24:14Speaker 3:Well.

24:14Speaker 1:Caught my attention was the evidence, the videos, text messages, documents that have surface since the HBO documentary, things that paint a very different picture of Gypsy Rose Blanchard.

24:32Speaker 3:Go back here water or.

24:36Speaker 2:It is your sixties slaved demonent. I can steal, I can torture, I could kill, just not those people.

24:45Speaker 10:Gypsy Rose talking about how she plans to sa her own daughter when she turns thirteen.

24:53Speaker 2:If we have a girl the way it has to be is if we have a girl, she has to lose her virginity to you because you are the master of the household.

25:06Speaker 1:Now, before you go spiral, let me give you some context. These clips were recorded years ago, before Gypsy ever had a daughter. What you're hearing is a role play game that Gypsy and Nick Go Too John played online. In this game, Gypsy played a character named Demona, a vampire slave, and Nick played her master. And in that fictional world, they said some very dark things, violent things, sexual things, things that ripped out of context and posted on TikTok sound like a confession. In context, they raise a whole different set of questions about the dynamics between Gypsy and Nick and who's really in control of that relationship. That's the conversation we are going to have in detail, not just in this episode. But one thing's for sure, I can't do this series without Gypsy. She's talked about her story plenty, but as far as I know, she has never publicly addressed the Demona videos, the home videos, the text messages, none of it, at least not in front of a reporter until now. Once I start doing research, because I haven't even started, Like once I dive into the hellish waters of your haters, Like how comfortable are

26:22Speaker 1:you with uncomfortable questions and stuff like that.

26:25Speaker 3:I'm pretty open.

26:27Speaker 2:Everybody has always known that I'm a pretty open book.

26:31Speaker 1:Remember you're listening to my pre interview with Gypsy. It's just to get to know you session to see if she was even interested. So if we were to do this, because like you said, I think maybe the story is that the people that know you, like in the Gypsy verse, they know about this, and then obviously the haters know about you as well, if not more, because they just they won't let it go right, Like this has been years and years and years, and it seems like every time you make some sort of public opinion or video or appearance, they jump on it. But like the outside world has no idea. So like, I really do think that that's the story. Your whole childhood was robbed from you, and then now all of a sudden, you're an adult and you have to figure out who is Gipsy Rose Blanchard?

27:18Speaker 3:You know what I mean? And do you know who you are? At this point?

27:21Speaker 2:I'm learning. I'm learning a lot, as with every new experience, because I think that that's how we grow, is just like experiencing things. So I think that I've gotten to where I'm comfortable.

27:35Speaker 1:Like yeah, but I mean going back to like the uncomfortable questions and stuff like that.

27:38Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't think that there's anything.

27:40Speaker 3:That I that I could find that you haven't seen.

27:44Speaker 5:Uh exactly exactly.

27:46Speaker 2:Yeah, that's some tough ones come at.

27:49Speaker 3:That's what I figured. That's what I figured.

27:51Speaker 1:But I was thinking, if you're up for it, I'm willing to like travel down there for a weekend, maybe like hang out for like a day, and and do the interview in person.

28:00Speaker 3:Would you be game for that?

28:01Speaker 2:I'd be down for that.

28:06Speaker 1:Next time, I pretend I fly to Louisiana meet Gypsy Rose Blanchard in person. I sat with her for almost three hours, and she answered every single question I threw at her.

28:17Speaker 3:This is going to be a long one, guys.

28:19Speaker 1:I don't know how many episodes yet, but okay, ready, because I conducted dozens of interviews, and we are also going to cover a recent discovery about Gypsy's health that puts everything in question. That's next time I pretend. Before we go, I want to update you on some recent developments. There's been a major development on this case. One of Gypsy's critics filed the public records requests with the Missouri Department of Corrections and got a hold of eight years worth of prison calls, And I'm going to play one of them for you right now. This is a prison call strategizing on how to make the biggest splash with her murder case.

29:08Speaker 11:If I knew any other television appearances, that they're going to throw the HBO documentary off the table. So so you know, I gotta wait till that comes out first, then.

29:21Speaker 2:The stuff right, definitely, yeah, and right now that they want.

29:27Speaker 11:Yeah, And there's an article that had came out on BuzzFeed dot com and it like tells my whole life story from beginning, you know, so now and it reads six million people.

29:43Speaker 1:Oh yeah yeah.

29:46Speaker 11:I was like, oh my gosh. I felt a lot of people freaking me out when I said that. When you said that I was famous, I didn't think but I really was.

29:56Speaker 2:Because now I'm reconsidering that yeah.

30:01Speaker 3:Well, I mean I don't want to say yeah, so you're gonna be famous, I know.

30:11Speaker 11:And then the lady that did the article says that there's been movie people that approached her, and people are like books and stuff, wanting to do my story so I can get royalty from there. I can get money from a book and a movie was actor. She's not the documentary. So I'm like, whenever I get out, I'm gonna be rich, I'm gonna be driving ever saving thing, and I'm gonna have my own homes.

30:43Speaker 1:They're slowly releasing one call at a time. It's a daily trickle, and some of these calls are explosive. Most of them are gossipy, but some of them give you this unfiltered view into Gypsy's mind and how she talks about the case when a reporter's not looking. Now, I've written the Missouri Department of Corrections asking them about the legalities of releasing such calls. After all, I've tried to obtain prison calls in the past for the show, and while these calls aren't meant to be private, they're not generally available for public record unless they're part of a court case. And these calls were recorded largely after Gypsy's plea deal. So here's what I'm going to do. Because these prison calls were released after my first three episodes were finished. I will include relevant snippets of these calls at the end of the first three episodes, and I will weave some of these calls in throughout episode four and beyond.

31:41Speaker 3:But here's what I'm not going to do.

31:42Speaker 1:I'm not going to play anything embarrassing for the sake of embarrassing Gypsy. Some of these calls include sexual content that was not meant to be shared. And I know, I know they knew that these calls were being recorded, So how could they be so stupid? I don't get it either, But as a journalist, I have to respect the privacy of individuals on the other end of the call. Some of what they're saying is personal, and these people.

32:10Speaker 3:Are not public figures.

32:12Speaker 1:And I would caution any other content creator to do the same. This story just got a whole lot trickier to produce.

32:20Speaker 3:Let's roll the credits.

32:26Speaker 4:Hi, I'm Ali and a pretend Patreon supporter. Today's episode was written and produced by Javier Leva. It was edited by Pooneith Chanoi with the podcast Pundits, and theme music by jo Basil with the Chicken dot Net.

32:42Speaker 1:If you want to listen to the first three episodes right now, check it out, I'm Patreon or pretend plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll be able to listen to the episodes early and ad free, and you'll get access to bonus episodes with full length, lightly edited interviews. And you're supporting local independent journalism. That's it for now. I want to hear what you guys think in the comments, so if you're on Spotify or YouTube, leave a comment at fort ten pod is my handle.

33:11Speaker 3:You want to know what you think.

33:12Speaker 1:That's it for now.

33:13Speaker 3:Take care