Episode notes
Another week, another deep episode! Kris and Matthew are back and this one goes right off the rails in the best way. What was supposed to be a rundown of the new model landscape turns into a wide-ranging conversation about what AI coding agents actually mean for the people who write software. Matt brings a real dilemma: he had an LLM generate a working program and could not decide whether he still needed to read the code. That kicks off Kris's case for separating validation (did you build the right thing?) from verification (did you build the thing right?), an assertion that we already trust…
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Fallthrough
by Fallthrough Media · English · Tech & Science
A deep and nuanced conversational podcast focused on technology, software, and computing.
More from Fallthrough
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E83 · 8 Aug 2026 · 1 hr 10 min
Vibe and Prejudice
We've got the classic trio of Kris, Matt, and Steve back to discuss Steve's impending cancellation for putting himself in the middle of some drama! Steve gives us a recount of the current saga between Zig, Rust, Bun, Fil-C, and his own programming language, Rue. The group discuss the problems with the drama, especially since it overshadows an amazing technical feat: a million lines of code ported to a new language in a week, then shipped to real customers, with a product that pulls in billions of dollars. Steve also made the mistake of complimenting Zig, which caused a 163 comment dog pile…
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E82 · 1 Aug 2026 · 1 hr 28 min
Token Maxx: Fury Road
On this week, we've got Kris, Matt, and Dylan! Yes, Dylan is back to talk about GopherCon and his experience as a self declared late adopter of agentic coding. Dylan chairs GopherCon, speaks at it next week, and describes his own AI hockey stick as happening in about two months. Dylan walks through what is on the GopherCon program, then explains his coding agent tipping point: a dependency injection refactor he had written off that Claude finished in an afternoon. But he's not all in yet: he still won't let one robot review and approve another robot's code. From there the conversation turns…
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E81 · 25 Jul 2026 · 53 min
I, Builder
Kris and Matt have a pretty big question they're trying to answer this week: in the age of AI, what does it actually mean to build something? We start (for real this time!) with the "SDKs are dead" discourse, and whether you still need one when you can just wrap the HTTP calls yourself. Kris then jumps the conversation to Beej's article on what it means to "make" or "build" a thing, he argues that we already lived through this during the analog-to-digital shift in music, photography, and video. Matt adds his own perspective from when he remodeled his kitchen. The duo doesn't stop with just…
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E79 · 11 Jul 2026 · 59 min
Landlord of the Rings
Kris and Matthew are back for a duo episode, and Kris has a hot take: ownership is terrible. What starts as a conversation about AI subscriptions versus API pricing turns into a wide-ranging discussion about what we actually gain by owning things, from Photoshop to your own compute to your house. Along the way, Kris and Matthew dig into why enterprises are drifting toward per-token pricing, why AMP's headless "own where it runs, rent the model" approach feels like the future, and why a number like "Meta spent 71 trillion tokens" tells you almost nothing about what got built. They also take…
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E78 · 4 Jul 2026 · 1 hr
Under Pressure
On this week's episode, Kris and Matthew have a topic: tension. Not the bad kind you learn to avoid, but the productive kind that, like a code smell, is worth stopping to examine. They discuss the challenges of APIs and stability, whether SDKs are actually necessary, and as always a little bit of life advice for our wonderful viewers/listeners. We've got supporter content, of course! This week that includes Kris's deep dive on why it's actually called soccer (and the perfect apple-versus-fruit comeback for every European), his love letter to Gerrit and patch-based review, Matthew on why the…
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E77 · 27 Jun 2026 · 27 min
The Spy Who Banned Me
It's Fallthrough time! In this episode, Kris, Matthew, and Steve get into the time Steve pointed Anthropic's Fable at a side project he hadn't touched since January and watched it shepherd 95 pull requests in three days, the US government export banning Fable and its sibling Mythos, the insanity of Mythos popping a national security agency's boxes in a matter of hours, and why a software engineer that runs 24/7 for anyone with an account is exactly the kind of thing governments get nervous about. We've got supporter content, of course! This week that includes whether your AI agents should…
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E91 · 3 Oct 2026 · 1 hr 17 min
Keep Your Enemies Closer
Steve is back! He joins Kris and Matt to discuss the drama around DHH's latest keynote at Rails World and Steve's latest views on AI. Interestingly, Steve believes that he'll sit in opposition to how Kris and Matt see the current situation. We start with Steve giving us the long backstory of Rails and DHH. The trio then dives into a conversation about purity tests, whether you can learn from people you dislike, and why making Linux a viable third option for desktop environments is important. From there they dive into whether the agents that carried out hacks were actually told to do that,…
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E90 · 26 Sep 2026 · 1 hr 8 min
Thinking, Fast and Cheap
Another week, another duo episode, but this time around it's Dylan who's joining Kris! He brings a fresh perspective to the AI conversation that Kris and Matt have been engaging in. The big question: is AI going to kill us all? Dylan thinks the odds are "astronomically small" and neither Kris nor him are going to lose sleep over the fear driven hype. The two are asking bigger questions: whether what language models are doing is thinking, why those who build these models in AI labs aren't actually the people who understand them the best, and whether TypeSafe AI's new Jev model is an LLM and…
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E89 · 19 Sep 2026 · 1 hr 4 min
Apocalypse Not Now
Kris and Matthew have some more spicy and it's about the latest AI news cycle: a greater than ten percent chance that AI wipes out humanity inside a decade. Neither of them are worried about it, what does is why everyone else is so worried about it. Kris brings his usual devil's advocate perspective: a 10% chance of extinction is also a 90% chance of non-extinction. He then widens the field of view to the more full argument, which is that AI is the easiest thing for everyone to point at. Matt takes a different direction and takes the argument at face value and walks it forward, ending with…
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E88 · 12 Sep 2026 · 1 hr 1 min
The Elements of Slop
Kris and Matthew have some feelings about AI they want to discuss. No, not about benchmarks or agents, but about the people using it to write things they should be plenty capable of writing themselves: the five paragraph LinkedIn post, the blog post, the tweet. Both Matt and Kris stumbled upon Pangram from the same source: Bryan Cantrill. The two go from there, discussing the ridiculousness of people writing short form posts fully with AI, to the purity tests that people insist on having, to the literacy crisis. This episode has a ton of spice, especially in the expanded edition. Speaking of…
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