Radical Optionality: Governing Transformative AI, with Christoph Winter and Charlie Bullock

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1. 

   19 Jun 2026 · 1 hr 17 min

   Justified Posteriors join Scaling Laws: Two economists and two lawyers walk into a podcast studio

   In this cross-pod episode, Alan and Kevin join Seth Benzell and Andrey Fradkin of Justified Posteriors to explore a big question: what should AI be for? The conversation begins with Pope Leo XIV’s recent encyclical. The group discusses how economists should think about the Church’s role in AI debates, what counts as an AI-related market failure, whether moral and religious institutions can help address social harms, and whether such interventions risk crowding out private action or local experimentation. The episode then turns to the emerging idea of positive alignment. A recent paper,…

2. 

   16 Jun 2026 · 48 min

   Explain to Shane (Tews) and Scaling Laws

   Shane Tews, host of Explain to Shane and nonresident senior fellow at AEI, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, for a cross-post conversation about the AI and cyber executive order, workforce disruption, and the future of education. They also share their respective research agendas for the summer. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

3. 

   12 Jun 2026 · 50 min

   Lawyering on the Frontier with Janel Thamkul

   Janel Thamkul, former frontier counsel team member at Anthropic, joins Kevin Frazier to discuss what it means to practice law at the frontier of AI. This episode starts with a review of Janel’s fascinating and varied background. Next, she walks through her initial exploration of a career in art before eventually pivoting to the law based on some very formative experiences. Kevin and Janel then investigate some of the most pressing and open questions related to transformative AI. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

4. 

   5 Jun 2026 · 52 min

   Tom Davidson on the Importance of AI Character

   Tom Davidson joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss AI timelines, explosive economic growth, and the increasingly urgent debate over “AI character” — the behavioral traits and decision-making tendencies embedded into advanced AI systems. Drawing on Davidson’s recent paper , “The Importance of AI Character,” which he co-authored with Will MacAskill, their conversation explores how the character of future AI systems may influence democratic governance, military conflict, institutional trust, and even…

5. 

   2 Jun 2026 · 46 min

   Governing the Frontier with Owen Larter of Google DeepMind

   Owen Larter, Senior Director and Head of Frontier Policy and Public Affairs at Google DeepMind, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to provide an inside look at how DeepMind approaches frontier governance. The conversation moves beyond the familiar U.S.-EU-China framing of AI policy to examine international coordination after the recent U.S.-China summit, Google DeepMind’s national AI partnerships, the role of the Frontier Model Forum, and the challenge of expanding AI adoption. Kevin and Owen also discuss…

6. 

   6 Oct 2026 · 54 min

   Hélène Landemore on Public Participation in AI Governance

   Hélène Landemore , Professor of Political Science at Yale University and a fellow at Oxford’s Institute for Ethics in AI, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to examine who should decide what AI is for. Starting with Landemore’s recent Noema essay , the pair discuss why decisions about AI’s purpose, limits, and governance should not be left solely to elected officials, technical experts, and the companies building the systems. Landemore explains some key ideas--covering the fundamentals of…

7. 

   29 Sep 2026 · 52 min

   Child Safety AI Policy at Scale with Vaishnavi J and Dave Willner

   Dave Willner, co-founder of Zentropi, and Vaishnavi J., founder and principal of Vys, join Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, to examine how AI is affecting younger users and why existing child-safety responses often default to age gates, parental consent, and outright bans. The conversation then turns to their open-source teen self-harm and suicidal ideation policies, which use age-banded rules and a four-zone framework: remove, suppress with a warning, suppress from…

8. 

   22 Sep 2026 · 52 min

   Live from Columbia Law with Chloé Bakalar: What can constitutions teach us about governing AI?

   Chloé Bakalar, ASI Ethics Lead at Responsible Superintelligence Institute (RESI) and a Senior Research Associate at University College London, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, for a Scaling Laws Roadshow conversation recorded at Columbia Law School. Big thanks to Eliza Steffen for organizing a fantastic visit. Recorded on the eve of Constitution Day, Chloé and Kevin explore the purposes of political constitutions, the American experience with constitutional change, and debate the extent…

9. 

   15 Sep 2026 · 47 min

   Is Meta's Oversight Board a Model for AI Governance

   Kenji Yoshino, Chief Justice Earl Warren Professor of Constitutional Law at New York University School of Law and a member of Meta’s Oversight Board, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law, and guest co-host Kate Klonick to discuss what frontier AI companies can learn from the Oversight Board. Yoshino recently co-authored a Tech Policy Press piece with fellow Board member Ronaldo Lemos arguing that meaningful AI oversight should feature independent and representative overseers, external standards, and transparent, reasoned…

10. 

    8 Sep 2026 · 38 min

    Algorithmic Disgorgement with Christina Lee [Live From LawAI's Workshop on Law-Following AI]

    Christina Lee , Visiting Associate Professor of Law and Privacy and Technology Law Fellow at George Washington University Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute, from the Institute of Law and AI’s Workshop on Law-Following AI in Cambridge, UK. They discuss her forthcoming article, Beyond Algorithmic Disgorgement: Remedying Algorithmic Harms . The conversation begins with the basics: what is algorithmic disgorgement, why did the FTC first use it in the Cambridge…

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