In School of War, CBS News National Security Analyst and Free Press columnist Aaron MacLean sits down with secretaries of state, top military historians, war planners, and key political decision-makers to help understand the lessons of war.
Tune in as School of War takes you to the front lines.
A young researcher in Siberia has died under mysterious circumstances, raising questions about a potential lab leak. Russia won’t say how it happened. Marshall Billingslea, former Special Presidential Envoy for Arms Control, says Moscow has scrubbed news reports, had officials walk back talk of an outbreak, and kept the World Health Organization in the dark. He joins School of War to fill in what the Kremlin won’t, taking us inside Russia’s expanding bioweapons program and the institute at the heart of the mystery, which defectors say ran a covert effort to weaponize the disease and make it…
Three years after October 7, the deadliest terror attack in Israeli history looms large over the Jewish state’s upcoming election. Former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren says whomever takes the helm next is unlikely to “remove a single soldier from Lebanon, from Gaza, from Syria.” Today, Oren joins School of War to discuss Israel’s “80 percent” consensus on national security, why he thinks Hezbollah “cannot be destroyed militarily,” and the deepening political divide between religious Zionists and ultra-Orthodox Jews over the Jewish state’s future. 3:33 How October 7 Changed…
How do you fight a superpower you can’t afford to stop trading with? The Dutch faced that problem at the start of the 17th century in their war against Spain, and their answer was the Dutch West India Company, a business built to wage war. Alexander Bick, a historian who served on the National Security Council under Barack Obama and Joe Biden, joins School of War to discuss his new book, Minutes of Empire. He explains how the company helped secure Dutch independence and why the Dutch kept trading with Spain while fighting it, taxing certain exports to “plow that money back into the…
“Let’s whisper it,” said historian Simon Sebag Montefiore. “The Trump blockade is working.” It can be hard to parse the state of play in the Middle East amid escalating rhetoric, but history gives us the necessary perspective to call balls and strikes in the present day. Today, the author of The Cauldron: The Making of the Modern Middle East joins School of War to discuss the forces that created the modern Middle East, why he thinks Trump’s strategy in Iran is working, and the growing rivalry between Israel and Turkey. “There is a real danger that Erdoğan will talk himself into a war with…
If America wants to defend Taiwan’s sovereignty, it needs to build more warships. China currently dominates global shipbuilding—producing vessels at a scale the United States can no longer match. Alex Wong, an executive at South Korean shipbuilding giant Hanwha Group and a former Trump administration national security adviser, thinks he has the solution. Today, Wong joins Aaron MacLean to discuss how the United States lost its shipbuilding capacity, how South Korean technology and investment could help revive American shipyards, and what it will take to rebuild the country’s naval industrial…
Could Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey form a “Muslim NATO?” Pakistan has the nuclear arsenal, Saudi Arabia has the wealth, and Turkey has the NATO-trained military—“you put these three together and it becomes a pretty formidable force,” says CBS News senior foreign correspondent Imtiaz Tyab. Today, he joins School of War to discuss whether the pact could really become an effective alliance, what the effort reveals about America’s changing role in the Middle East, and what five years of Taliban rule have meant for Afghanistan: “I’ve never seen the Taliban more confident,” he said. 02:14 —…
John Boyd was one of the most influential military thinkers of the 20th century, and the intellectual godfather of the U.S. Marines’ military strategy. Today, as artificial intelligence continues to transform battlefields in Ukraine and the Middle East, author and retired Marine officer Ian Brown argues that Boyd’s ideas are more relevant than ever. Today, Brown joins Aaron MacLean to discuss how Ukraine is harnessing Boyd’s concept of narrative warfare, what Boyd can teach us about conflict in the age of AI, drones, and precision strikes, and his new book co-authored with Frans P. B.…
People think retired Army Major John Spencer lost part of his ear in combat. He didn’t; he lost it in a fight behind a bar that cost him his spot in the Army Rangers. Spencer went on to serve repeatedly in combat and become one of the country’s leading experts on urban warfare. He joins Aaron MacLean to discuss his origin story and other anecdotes from his new book, Twenty Times I Almost Died, as well as why he thinks the U.S. “is clearly winning” the war in Iran. 3:30 War With Iran 9:43 Battle of Hormuz 10:42 Wartime Stockpiles 12:32 The Stakes of Failure 15:34 Losing His Ear 23:34 Losing…
Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster was on the phone with the Pentagon when the plane struck the building on September 11, 2001. “I thought, Okay, we are going to war,” he recalls. Twenty-five years after 9/11, McMaster joins Aaron MacLean to discuss the wars that followed. Drawing on his experience as a wartime commander and national security adviser, McMaster explains why he considers Afghanistan a self-defeat, how American withdrawal helped enable the rise of ISIS in Iraq, and why he thinks the latest Iran ceasefire was “a big mistake.” 4:39 McMaster on 9/11 7:27 Adapting to Iraq 12:33…
A Chinese hypersonic missile targeting either U.S. coast would leave room for “about 10 minutes of warning time.” Zachary Krevor, CEO of Stratolaunch, is building vehicles to help the Pentagon learn to detect, track, and intercept this threat. Today, Krevor joins School of War to explain how China and Russia have outpaced the U.S. in hypersonic weapons testing, why AI-enabled missile “swarms” may be on the horizon, and what it will take for America to defend itself against them. 2:32 What Makes a Weapon Hypersonic? 4:47 The Real-Life Top Gun: Maverick 6:14 From Model Airplanes to Hypersonics…
When it comes to world superpowers, Cambridge historian Brendan Simms argues there are only four that matter—and two of them are fading. Today, Simms joins Aaron MacLean to argue that Britain still belongs among the world’s leading powers; why its place among them is “by no means guaranteed”; and why Hitler is no longer the absolute evil against which people define themselves. 4:08 The Four R’s of Great Power 4:29 Defining Great Power 8:09 Iran’s Regional Power 11:44 The Great Powers Return 15:39 The Cold War 17:44 Europe Wakes Up 21:45 American Unipolarity Ends 25:16 Britain’s Great-Power…
The story of Air Force General David Goldfein, who miraculously survived after his plane was shot down over Serbia in 1999, has since become military legend. Today, he joins School of War to recount the harrowing rescue mission that saved him, how he stayed alive behind enemy lines, and the lessons his remarkable career offers about leadership, airpower, and preparing America for the next war. 2:43 An Air Force Family 3:25 Rejected by the Air Force Academy 6:39 Becoming an F-16 Pilot 8:12 What Makes a Great Fighter Pilot? 12:36 Information Overload in Combat 15:28 Goldfein’s First Combat…
More than 75 years after the Korean War, its lessons endure—and divisions over isolationism and American power continue to shape the discourse around modern global conflicts. Dane J. Cash, historian and author of The Forgotten Debate: The Korean War and the Roots of America's Ideological Divisions, joins School of War to explain how the left’s hawk-dove divide during the Korean War foreshadowed the neoconservative break from the liberal consensus during the 1970s and why the political battles of the early Cold War continue to splinter America today. 2:10 America Before the Korean War 3:08…
The U.S. military needs more drones, and it needs to build them without Chinese parts. Today, Defense Innovation Unit Deputy Director Travis Metz joins School of War to discuss how America can build drones quickly, cheaply, and on U.S. soil; what America can learn from Ukraine’s drone war; and the Pentagon’s new billion-dollar effort to upgrade its aging military technology. 2:23 - Why America Is Behind on Drones 4:32 - The Drone Dominance Program 6:51 - Breaking Dependence on China 10:23 - The Different Types of Drones 13:34 - Ukraine’s Mid-Range Strike Revolution 16:00 - Cheap Drones at…
In prerevolutionary Russia, it was not uncommon for children to dream of becoming terrorists when they grew up. “It was a respected profession,” says Northwestern University professor Gary Saul Morson, who now sees troubling parallels between modern-day America and an era in Russia when terrorism became fashionable and radicals came to see violence as an expression of moral virtue. Today, Morson joins School of War to discuss what Fyodor Dostoyevsky understood about the terrorist mind, why good people can be persuaded to support terrible acts, and what America loses when it stops teaching…
Pennsylvania senator Dave McCormick, a West Point graduate, Desert Storm veteran, and former CEO of Bridgewater Associates, is concerned about America’s wealth gap, which he says is approaching “a version of capitalism I don’t think we want.” Today, McCormick joins School of War for a candid conversation about why the right needs a better answer to socialism, lessons in modern warfare from his recent closed-door meeting with Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky, and why he regrets his 2002 LA Times op-ed supporting the Iraq War: “I was completely wrong.” 02:01 — From Desert Storm to…
Is the tank obsolete? As drones and precision strikes transform modern battlefields, some have predicted that armored vehicles may soon meet the fate of the cavalry charge. Today on School of War, Colonel Jose A. Reyes and Lieutenant Colonel David “Cam” Smith of the 1st Cavalry Division make the opposite case. Drawing on their experience operating and commanding tanks, they join Aaron MacLean to explain how armored vehicles are adapting to an increasingly drone-centric battlefield—and why the future of warfare may still belong to the cavalry. 3:18 — Reyes and Smith’s Backgrounds 8:40 — The…
As war in Ukraine grinds towards its fifth year and tensions strain the transatlantic alliance, former British prime minister Boris Johnson says he remains convinced that the West has the power to prevail: “Putin has got to lose.” Today, Johnson joins School of War to discuss how the West can bring the Russian president to the negotiating table, why Europe’s dream of “strategic autonomy” is a “sham, a snare and a delusion,” and why he believes predictions of American decline and Chinese dominance have it backward. 02:20 — When Boris Johnson Knew Putin Would Invade Ukraine 05:46 — Why Europe…
As the American right and left are increasingly pulled toward their ideological extremes, many politicians have chosen to appease the loudest voices in their coalitions even when those voices flirt with or openly embrace antisemitism. Senator Ted Cruz says he’s done playing nice. “If we do not defeat this poison,” he warns, “I believe it will consume the Republican Party just like it has consumed the Democratic Party.” Today, Cruz joins School of War to discuss his strategy for bringing down Iran’s regime, what Tucker Carlson’s splinter from the mainstream right means for conservative…
Yuri Fedorenko has spent four years turning a volunteer rifle company into the 429th “Achilles” Brigade, one of the most lethal units in Ukraine’s Defense Forces. Today, he joins School of War to discuss how the battlefield has evolved since Russia’s full-scale invasion: improvising with commercial drones in 2022, scaling a unit that now hunts targets at an unprecedented scale, what life is like on the front lines, and what the U.S. military can learn from his unit’s drone revolution. This interview was originally conducted in Ukrainian and has been translated and dubbed into English. 02:23…
For months, it was conventional wisdom among large swaths of the American right that Ukraine would inevitably have to cede its Donbas region to Russia to end the war. Now, with Russian morale flagging, “that assumption is just no longer true,” says Aidan Stretch, a CBS News international reporter based in Kyiv. Today, Stretch joins School of War to discuss the state of play on the battlefield, Laura Loomer’s recent change of heart about the war, and how drone warfare has transformed the very idea of the front line as we know it. 02:36 - Is Ukraine Really Winning? 05:58 - Political Turmoil in…
Mark Montgomery, senior director of the Center on Cyber and Technology Innovation at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a retired U.S. Navy rear admiral, returns to School of War to analyze the latest military developments across the world. Why has the Iran war entered such a dangerous and uncertain phase? What role will the Strait of Hormuz and the Red Sea play in its next stage? And what do Iran and Ukraine reveal about the changing shape of global conflict? 02:22 - Why the Iran War Suddenly Paused 04:44 - An Uneasy Ceasefire and Dueling Blockades 05:35 - The Challenge of…
Ben Milligan, a former U.S. Navy SEAL, Bronze Star recipient, and author of By Water Beneath the Walls: The Rise of the Navy SEALs, joins School of War to discuss the origins and evolution of one of America's most storied special operations forces. How did the Navy SEALs grow out of the Underwater Demolition Teams of World War II? What does it take to become a SEAL? How did the Vietnam War shape the institution into the force we know today? And what role should the SEALs play as the U.S. military shifts its focus from the war on terror to great power competition? 02:10 – Why Ben Became a…
Jonathan Swan, a White House reporter for The New York Times, joins School of War to discuss the reporting behind his new book, Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump, co-authored with Maggie Haberman. How does Donald Trump make geopolitical decisions? What drove him to join Israel’s war against Iran? How has his thinking on Ukraine evolved? And how does China fit into all of this? 02:23 - Inside Regime Change 05:29 - Trump's View of the World 09:04 - Why Trump Sees Iran Differently 11:25 - Trump's Proxy Strategy 12:44 - Steve Witkoff's Worldview 13:43 - The Principles…
James Diggle, emeritus professor of Greek and Latin at Cambridge University, and John Underhill, professor of geoscience and energy transition at the University of Aberdeen, join School of War to discuss their decades-long search for the real Ithaca of Homer’s Odyssey. Based on their recent Antigone journal article, “In Search of Ithaca,” they explain why the island we’ve called Ithaca for centuries may actually be the wrong one. Can modern geology solve a 3,000-year-old mystery? Have we finally found the true home of Odysseus? And what would that mean for one of the greatest stories ever…
Mike Doran, senior fellow and director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute, returns to School of War to examine why the war with Iran continues despite devastating military setbacks for Tehran. Is President Trump’s Iran strategy truly different from President Obama’s, or are the similarities overstated? What does the fight over the Strait of Hormuz reveal about the limits of American power? And what does this war tell us about the future of U.S. strategy in the Middle East—and its broader competition with China? 01:22 - Recap of the Iran War 06:03…
Vance Serchuk, executive director and Partner at the KKR Global Institute, and former senior national security adviser to Senator Joe Lieberman, was uniquely positioned to witness one of the most influential partnerships in modern American foreign policy: the “Three Amigos” of John McCain, Joe Lieberman, and Lindsey Graham. What made their partnership so effective? What vision did they share for America’s role in the world? And what does the end of the “Three Amigos” mean for the future of American foreign policy? 02:21 - Lindsey Graham and the Three Amigos 10:42 - First Impressions of…
Edward Fishman, senior fellow and director of the Greenberg Center for Geoeconomics at the Council on Foreign Relations, joins School of War to discuss his New York Times best-selling book, Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare. How has the United States turned the global economy into a strategic weapon? What are the strengths and limits of sanctions? And how are China, Russia, and Iran adapting to a new era of economic warfare? 02:46 - Edward Fishman's background 04:26 - Understanding economic chokepoints 05:35 - The dollar as a strategic chokepoint 07:02 -…
David, a U.S. military veteran who has been fighting voluntarily alongside Ukrainian forces, joins School of War to discuss how four years on the front lines have transformed modern warfare. How has combat in Ukraine changed since Russia’s 2022 invasion? Why have first-person view drones become the defining weapon of the war? What misconceptions does the West still have about the Russian military? And what lessons must the United States absorb before its next major conflict? 02:49 - David’s military history 05:56 - What brought David to Ukraine 07:37 - Russia's failed invasion of Kyiv 10:24…
Richard Bell, historian, professor at the University of Maryland, and author of The American Revolution and the Fate of the World, joins School of War to discuss how the American Revolution became a global conflict that stretched from Boston to the Caribbean, Europe, India, and beyond. How did George Washington's strategy force Britain to fight a world war? Why was France's intervention decisive to American victory? And what does the revolution reveal about the nature of coalition warfare? 00:53 - Rick Bell's background 02:05 - The American Revolution was a global war 06:09 - What led to the…
About School of War
In School of War, CBS News National Security Analyst and Free Press columnist Aaron MacLean sits down with secretaries of state, top military historians, war planners, and key political decision-makers to help understand the lessons of war. Tune in as School of War takes you to the front lines. Aaron MacLean is a former senior fellow at Hudson Institute. He has worked as a foreign policy advisor and legislative director to Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas and spent seven years in the U.S. Marine Corps. Visit our Substack for episode transcripts Follow along on Instagram
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