Ep 34: Colette Laxton, Knowledge is the Moat - Building the INKEY List

0:08SPEAKER_02:Welcome back to She Commerce where bold brands, fierce women, and real talk collide. Today we are entering an industry that has somehow convinced millions of intelligent women that we need a chemistry degree, a 12-step routine, and an extremely flexible credit limit just to work.

0:30SPEAKER_01:Yep, because skincare has become so overcrowded with tons of products, all the trends, terminology like hyaluronic acid that you could not pronounce before today. Wow. I think we should be real with our audience and share some of these shortcomings that we have. We're not perfect. We can't pronounce every word. Jackie's much better at it than me, but we did find your shortfall, hyaluronic acid. We know that consumers have so much to choose from, and they are just drowning in choice.

1:06SPEAKER_01:But what we often lack is the confidence to know what a product actually does, where it belongs in our skincare routine, and whether we even need it in the first place.

1:16SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Our guest today, um total fangirl, by the way, helps build a brand by calling BS on all of that confusion. The belief with purple. Give consumers better knowledge, create formulas that work, and make effective skincare financially accessible. But before we bring this absolute queen into the conversation, it is time to spill the tea. Today we have not one, not three, but four stories sitting right at the intersection of women's leadership, brand building, beauty culture, and major retail transformation.

2:05SPEAKER_02:First, a She Commerce woman, women in leadership spotlight. Kelly Siochetto. And Kelly, if I've mispronounced your name, I'm so sorry. I am not brilliant with knowing her best day for pronouncing things. Oh my God, you're not gonna let that go, are you? But Kelly, we are so pleased that you've announced your new role as vice president of sales in North America at Lancino with dear, dear friend and other uh Girl Crush, Julie Talbot. Kelly shared that she will work with the Lancino team and its retail and e-commerce partners to accelerate growth while continuing to support mothers and families through every stage of their journey.

2:57SPEAKER_02:Kelly, congratulations. We love seeing another accomplished woman step into a major North American sales leadership role.

3:08SPEAKER_01:And Julie, we see you continuing to build that strong leadership team and creating space for talented women to step into those influential commercial roles. That's right there is sisterhood in action.

3:20SPEAKER_02:Hell yeah. And what makes Kelly's role especially relevant is that sales leadership is changing. It is no longer about getting the product onto the shelf. It's about connecting retail partnerships, e-commerce, Amazon, consumer health, data, and brand purpose into one unified growth strategy. Yes.

3:44SPEAKER_01:And that commercial leadership with a consumer mission behind it is our kind of move. We love it. All right. So our second leadership story is both a milestone and a moment that deserves a little more examination. So we have Juliana Ascevedo, a 30-year Procter and Gamble veteran, has been named the first female CEO, the first female CEO in Gillette's nearly 125-year history. So Juliana began a PNG as a marketing intern in Brazil when she was like 10, became the first woman to lead its Latin America business, and will now lead the grooming unit that includes Gillette and Venus.

4:33SPEAKER_02:That deserves such a celebration. But the appointment also arrives as several extremely senior women exit PG after careers spanning more than three decades. So here's a leadership question behind the headline. Is success having one woman finally reach the top of an iconic business? Or is it building a pipeline deep enough that one generation of women can exit without creating a leadership vacuum? That's definitely a question for Kirsten Riley and Cassie Bell.

5:11SPEAKER_01:Yes, I was thinking you're get out of my head. Because representation at the top, of course, matters, but that retention and succession and sponsorship throughout the organization and cascading down from the leadership levels matter just as much, if not more. So, you know, obviously one historic appointment is progress, but a repeatable system is true transformation. Absolutely. Or hell yeah.

5:41SPEAKER_02:Now this is our one of our favorite dust ever tea stories because Rhea Raj, the gorgeous, beautiful daughter of our friend, our dear friend Shri Roger Gopelin from the CPG Guys, becomes a new Mac girl. Oh yeah, she does. Let's sing from the boardroom to the beauty campaign, which is fitting for this episode. Rhea Raj is bringing her signature energy to MAC Cosmetics as the face of its cajal excess long wear smoky eyeliner.

6:18SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Oof. She has those gorgeous smoky eyes, just they're like made for it. Um, but this is more than just a recognizable face in a beauty campaign. I think brands are increasingly needing people who can carry a product beyond the shelves, right? Into culture. Someone with that visual identity, with an audience, with a voice, with a point of view. And that person is no longer simply appearing in media. They are becoming part of the media strategy.

6:52SPEAKER_02:Oh, a hundred percent. The old model was endorsement. The new model, absolutely cultural co-creation. Strongest partnerships do not feel like a logo was placed beside a famous person. They feel like the talent, the product, and the creative idea just naturally meld together.

7:17SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. So congratulations, Rhea. You are made for it. Yes, you're such a star. Um, and so beautiful. So the last one is uh moving away from just people to corporate. Um, it's a very big commerce story. So Kroger has entered into an agreement to acquire Giant Eagle grocery chain for$1.65 billion. So Giant Eagle has a substantial regional footprint. I was uh lived in Pittsburgh, PA, where their headquarters were. So I'm very familiar with it. Um, they also have a pharmacy, uh, private label capabilities, and really deep community relationships.

8:03SPEAKER_01:So Kroger obviously brings the skill, the data, personalization, and that operating discipline you need at that level.

8:12SPEAKER_02:So the so what now what is this. Can Kroger create the benefits of national scale without stripping away the local equity that makes Giant Eagle so incredibly valuable? Because customers do not experience an acquisition through a press release, they experience it through prices and assortments and pharmacy services, loyalty rewards, digital tools, and whether the people in their local stores still understand their community.

8:45SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that is the perfect bridge into today's conversation. Because scale matters, but scale only creates lasting value when the consumer still recognizes the core promises that made the brand special in the first place. Amen. Our guest today is Colette Laxton, co-founder of the InKey List, and one of the driving forces behind a brand that made clarity, knowledge, and accessibility feel genuinely disruptive in beauty. Colette and her co-founder Mark Curry launched the InKey List in the UK in 2018 around one foundational belief.

9:25SPEAKER_01:Better knowledge powers better decisions. Rather than asking consumers to decode complicated language, luxury packaging, and intimidating routines, they built an ingredient-led brand designed to tell people what the product does, why they might need it, and where it belongs in their routine. Simple, right?

9:45SPEAKER_02:So simple, but yet not. And Colette did not arrive at entrepreneurship through the traditional startup mythology. She spent decade, nearly a decade, uh at Boots, working across marketing, brand building, product development partnerships, and learning how founders, retailers, and consumers interact from inside one of the UK's largest, largest health and beauty businesses. Then came the failed ventures, the moments when the money was nearly gone, and the decision to try again with a belief that people deserve effective skincare without the unnecessary complexity or luxury makeup and markup.

10:31SPEAKER_02:Based in Nottingham, the legendary home of Robin Hood, Colette and Mark like a joke that they set out to take efficacious skincare off the luxury pedestal and bring it to the masses.

10:45SPEAKER_01:I love that. The belief has now grown far beyond a clever product proposition. The InKey list has expanded across major global retailers, direct-to-consumer and social commerce. But perhaps the most interesting part of the story is the system behind that scale. The brand built as InKey to answer real skincare questions made consumer education part of its core service model and used that direct relationship to shape product development, content, and commerce.

11:17SPEAKER_02:So today we are going behind the clean packaging and simple instructions. We are talking about failed startups, founder resilience, because my lord, you have to be resilient. Loss reading, loss-leading products, margin discipline, because that sure takes discipline. TikTok shop, AI, global retail, and what it actually takes to protect a purpose while building a serious business. Colette, welcome to SheCommerce.

11:48SPEAKER_00:Wow, what an introduction. Thank you so much for that. I'm gonna steal all of those words. Um, thank you. I'm I'm beyond excited to be here. Yes.

11:58SPEAKER_01:We're excited to have you and thank you so much for all the products. So before we get into your founder story, we need to start there because my goodness, how generous. Um, you and the InKeylist team sent both of us incredibly, incredibly generous boxes of products to try. And I I can certainly say that I've genuinely enjoyed working my way through mine.

12:23SPEAKER_02:Same here. And today, with before we started, when you and Laura told showed me or told me about how to use, let me try and see if I can get this right, hyaluronic. Yes, she did. Well done. Um I cannot wait to try it, uh, to try it later on tonight. The first thing that stood out though was how easy the brand makes it to understand what you're holding. Uh the products tell you what they do, the directions explain where they belong in the routine, and the entire experience removes so much of the guesswork.

12:59SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I actually have the Dewey uh Hydromist on right now. And I love that I didn't have to like Google, stand in the bathroom, like, can I use this before this? Yeah. Um, it really, I think what you've done is create a skincare flow chart like on the mirror, on the back. And it just feels so simple, but not like basic or simplistic in a bad way. There's obviously a great deal of formulation and education and and clearly consumer thinking that goes behind making something feel that intuitive.

13:33SPEAKER_02:And that feels like, you know, and that feels like the first commerce lesson of the episode. Clarity is not just copywriting. Clarity is part of the product.

13:44SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. So I'm sure that simplicity wasn't as simple to create. So, um, because from the consumer side, it definitely feels effortless, but that's the point, right? Uh, we know that making something feel effortless requires just an enormous amount of work behind the scenes. And that's what we want to dig into with you today.

14:05SPEAKER_02:Amazing. And that brings us perfectly to the beginning of the story. Today, consumers see the products, the retailers, and the global growth. But none of this started with certainty or with a giant beauty industry budget. The story began after previous startup setbacks and reportedly with only about 10 pounds left in the bank. So take us back to that version of you, Colette. Why did you still believe the Inky list was worth one more leap?

14:41SPEAKER_00:I think for me, we started with the consumer. So back to that kind of founding belief that better knowledge drives better decisions. We could see a market full of brands, full of products and full of confusion. People understood that they should be using skincare, but didn't know what was right for their skin. They were flooded with information, flooded with products, but were ultimately confused. And we knew that if we could just unlock that confusion, just get them to understand what an ingredient is, what it does, what it's going to do for you and your skin, and really start to get you to understand your skin, we could unlock something really magic.

15:21SPEAKER_00:So the premise of simplifying skincare and giving people that knowledge to empower them. I knew we had something there.

15:32SPEAKER_02:So was there one specific piece of consumer insight that gave you this conviction?

15:39SPEAKER_00:Very much so. Um we could see, so this is back in 2018, remember the world pre-COVID. I know it's hard to remember now. Um, but the rise of Reddit was the real aha moment. So we could see, you know, we'd got um Facebook communities that were starting to build, but Reddit was this real moment where consumers started rejecting the kind of magic that brands were selling. They were turning to each other and saying, hey, what is this product? What's in it?

16:10SPEAKER_00:And what is it gonna do for my skin? You know, it's called magic, but I need to know what is the ingredient. I really need to understand what it's actually gonna do for my skin. And when consumers start turning to each other, you think there's something missing here. They're not getting the right information from brands, they're not getting the right information from the industry, so they're using each other. They were going to the extremes of taking photos of their skin and saying, Hey, does anybody know what this is?

16:35SPEAKER_00:Can anybody help me out? So we could see thousands and thousands and thousands of Reddit threads and said, Hey, imagine being the people that could come in and help, like truly come from a place of support to help them with their skin. So we didn't start with a product, we didn't start from an ingredient, we started from an insight that actually people needed help.

16:57SPEAKER_01:Oh my god. I love that. So um as an insight veteran, that just makes my heart so happy.

17:05SPEAKER_02:As a lifelong consumer, that makes my heart happy.

17:09SPEAKER_01:Me too. Well, same. And look, if you started with Reddit, so that means you already got a jump on Agentic Commerce since that's where it you know was majority sourcing from. Absolutely interesting.

17:20SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um so let's put it a slightly. What what did failure teach you that success could not have?

17:29SPEAKER_00:Um, I think back to number one always being consumer first. I think when you have a business and a brand, you are so wrapped up in your own world, your your own definition of what looks good. And, you know, I think there's an ego play here a lot. You know, I've got the best thing, I've got the best brand, I've got the best products, I've got this. Ultimately, unless you listen to the consumer, you aren't gonna really help to serve them. And I think a lot of the time when you're in that brand building world, you can get very, very lost.

18:01SPEAKER_00:So I think failure kind of was that slap in the face to say, you know what, sometimes you're doing this for ego or you're doing this because you think it's right, you're not listening. And once you start listening to the consumer and understanding what you're doing wrong, there's that, that's really when the magic comes. And, you know, we had a few brands before the inky list, and you know, we were I felt like we we were willing it to succeed. You know, you're pushing water uphill, you're convincing retailers to take the product, you know, you're desperately trying to work out how to sell.

18:32SPEAKER_00:That's not the answer because guess what? There's something missing. If you don't have that consumer pulse, there's something you're not doing right. So I think the failure for me is learning what you're doing wrong ultimately gets you to something that consumer actually wants.

18:48SPEAKER_01:Actually listening to what the consumer is telling you, right?

18:52SPEAKER_00:Even if it's different from ideas, yeah. It's honestly hard to hear. And and even with the inky list, the first packaging run we did, you know, that first order ta-da, out into the world. And my biggest job was to make the packaging educational and simple. And you can imagine the hours, you know, the every single word choice, you know, just to make it being simple is the hardest thing to do, we know. Um, and you know, the the the wording decisions, and I was so, so happy with every decision we've made.

19:21SPEAKER_00:And then we had feedback immediately from a consumer saying, I don't understand how you use this. And I'm like, but it but it's so clear, but it's so clear. And then I and then I took a step back and said, hang on a minute. Just because I think it's clear, me doesn't mean it's right. So actually, the first three packaging runs, we changed our packaging every time because we were getting feedback from consumers and just just really, really, yeah, tweaking it to a point where anybody could pick up our product and say, Hey, I understand that, I know it's right for me, and I know how to use it.

19:53SPEAKER_02:I love that. You talked about um the potential ego at play, but what I'm hearing the whole time is the humility to listen to your to your clients or your consumers tell you where you've gone wrong and working on that and the tenacity and resilience that just got you past that starting line. But you know, Christina, the brand was not built on resilience alone, it was built around a very specific reason for existing.

20:26SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Yes. So, Claude, you've said that the business starts with the why, right? Why when making decisions. And uh that sounds really powerful in a brand presentation. You know, we hear that a lot. Um, but it can be much harder when there is a retailer opportunity, a margin target, an investor expectation sitting across the table from you that uh tells us, tell us maybe about a moment where protecting that why cost more, maybe took you longer or forced you to say, you know, actually, no, we're we're not gonna do this.

21:02SPEAKER_00:So it's hard to do. And as you say, the pressures on you as a brand is is constantly there. And and this isn't just at the start. This is, you know, even as you scale your brand. There was a particular moment. Do you remember the Sephora kids? The moment, you know, where the seven-year-olds came into the skincare world and started buying, you know, at four. Yeah, our daughter the same. Um, and we had a moment, and it was a kind of a very pivotal moment of saying, we we really believe in the beauty of knowledge, and our belief and power system is that children shouldn't be using skincare.

21:38SPEAKER_00:They shouldn't. They don't need skincare. So we could have gone down the route of actually we could really play into this and really, you know, target, you know, we're we're an affordable price point. We're in Sephora. We could have said, let's clean up here, and a lot of brands did. But my kind of overarching why of, you know. Making sure that people understand the right things for their skin. And the right thing for a seven-year-old skin is not to use skincare.

22:07SPEAKER_00:We decided not to play. And that was brand damaging in terms of sales for a short period because you know everybody was kind of turning around and looking at these brands. But I feel so good to know that we see ourselves as a brand that truly is consumer first. We're going to make the right decision for them. And actually not playing into that Sephora kids temporary trend bump actually was the right thing to do for the brand. Um, but we could have quite easily fed into that.

22:39SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So what what I'm hearing is there won't be a subline for for children. That won't be. Definitely not. My daughter, you're breaking her heart, but sorry. One day I tell her all the time, you're you're beautiful enough. You don't need to be able to do it. Exactly that.

22:55SPEAKER_00:That's the skin we want. Keep that protected. Definitely, exactly. Skin gear.

23:01SPEAKER_02:The the authenticity and the integrity um stand by those principles when there are dollar well, in this case, pound signs. Um you are leaving money on the table. That is such an incredible, and let's be brutally honest here, rare commodity.

23:25SPEAKER_01:Yeah, courageous, yeah, for sure. Um obviously attractive opportunity, wrong consumer, wrong fit with brand, and you you stood by those values. So we we applaud you. We applaud you. Uh and you know, something else you said earlier was uh resonated because you spoke about you were pushing, you know, water uphill, you were really trying to sell. And when you have a good insight, when you unlock a good insight and you see a gap in the market, you actually stop selling, right?

23:53SPEAKER_01:And when you talk to people, they just they get it, whether that's a consumer, that buyer sitting across from you, um, investors, etc. So, how do you maybe separate that mission-driven conviction from founder stubbornness? Because you you spoke about that too. Like founders sometimes just can't see through that. They have a that conviction and they're gonna go for it no matter what. Yeah.

24:17SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a tough one. And I think I'm eight years in now to the brand. Um, and I want to maintain that founder stubbornness as long as I can. And and you know what? It's just it's just learning when it's the right time to have that stubbornness and be really clear on who you are, versus, you know, as a business, you're scaling and and sometimes you might need to make, you know, decisions in terms of scale that that might feel a bit uncomfortable.

24:43SPEAKER_00:I would say, I personally though believe, you know, we've scaled very quickly and you know, sold over 90 million products, um, which I would, you know, was more than I could have ever have dreamt. I actually think that founder stubbornness has kept us on the right path. Because I think over eight years the the market has changed a lot. And back to the Sephora Kids moment or you know, that pivotal moment of COVID. And, you know, as we expand into different retailers, there's lots of different moments where you can start to lose who you are.

25:16SPEAKER_00:And I think the key for me is you know, you need to think about expansion, you need to think about how you're building yourself for the future, but never lose sight of who you are. And every big decision you make can send you potentially into a different path. Um, and and we have made a few mistakes, I would say. You know, we launch uh the inky list. So let me just just come back to what the inky list is. And an inky list is the ingredients list on the back of every pack.

25:44SPEAKER_00:So whether it's food, beauty, or wellness, there's that ingredients, and they are the chemical names of the ingredients, which is brilliant because it gives you transparency. The reason we created our brand as the inky list is we wanted to take that very complex list of ingredients and make it simple. Now, my fundamental belief is that that doesn't need to just be in skincare. We are making a complex category simple and easy to understand. So very quickly, we got overexcited and said, we we we could expand beyond skincare.

26:15SPEAKER_00:And we decided to launch into hair care really early on.

26:20unknown:Okay.

26:21SPEAKER_00:Terrible idea. Absolutely terrible idea. We hadn't established ourselves in skincare. I've got, you know, a team of 15 people in total in the business, and then you've got three people over here working on hair products, selling that into retailers, completely destroying the business. And and the insight was right that there's an inky list, and you can actually expand that into multiple geographies and multiple categories, but stay, stay true on the vision.

26:47SPEAKER_00:And and that's your you know, your point, Jackie, on still not being able to pronounce the word hyaluronic acid. I have failed because I have not done my job, which is to help you pronounce the ingredient. So I think for me, today today we did. We're there, we're there, we're there today. But you know, I've still got a huge job to do. So I think you know, you can get a little bit distracted and a little bit overexcited and kind of maybe just exactly that.

27:15SPEAKER_00:And you know, retailers are giving you shiny objects all the time. So I think for me is like that founder stubbornness actually on and being true on who you are is really critical from the start to actually, you know, I've scaled eight years on.

27:29SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that founder stubbornness and that um uh just core insight to be true to who you are. Yeah, um, one of the boldest expressions of that purpose is your price point, which yes, which sounds simple until you look at everything else that has to happen behind it to deliver that price point, right? Yes.

27:51SPEAKER_02:Anyone can put a low price on a box, right? But the difficult part is delivering quality, efficacy, margin, innovation, and retail growth at that price year after year. What is the operational discipline behind keeping your skincare so affordable?

28:14SPEAKER_00:You're making me sweat because it's a daily, it's a daily challenge. Um so again, I started with the consumer. Um, and we have a bit of an analogy actually that um we liken ourselves to IKEA. So when IKEA um think about the the price that they want to price their product out, they say, what does the consumer want to spend? So it might be a pint glass for a dollar, and they will do everything possible in their supply chain to get that to be a dollar because they know a consumer goes to an IKEA and they want to buy multiple um pint glasses, uh wine glasses, and they want to spend as little as possible to a point where they at one point they were selling square glasses because it was more efficient in terms of the shipping.

29:01SPEAKER_00:Super smart, right? So in terms of the ways fit on the palette. So, same principle goes, start with you know, consumer first, you know, we want to democratize skincare in terms of incredible, efficacious products, the latest innovation that's kind of come from clinics or come from very, very luxury skincare and get it to a price point. And our perspective is that kind of under$25 bracket is that moment where you say, Oh, you know, this is a little bit, can I do it?

29:33SPEAKER_00:Can I buy it? Do I want to try it? We want it to be something that people felt comfortable, you know, reaching into their wallet to buy and everybody having access to it. But what sits then behind that is a lot of pain and ongoing pain. Um so the most fundamental thing is the formulation in the bottle. So that formulation, we want to spend as much possible on that as possible. And you will see when you try our products, you know, you're not gonna get the stickiness, the tackiness, you're not gonna get the pilling, you're not gonna get, you know, as hiding, hiding behind actives where we don't have the active levels in there.

30:10SPEAKER_00:You know, what is in that product is the most important thing. Then everything that sits around it, we mean we need to make compromises on. So look at our packaging. It's simple, it does the job, it's not exciting. It's it I I mean, the funny thing is, is I designed our packaging on PowerPoint. Like, seriously. I was like, I know what I want. I don't have any design expertise, but I knew what I wanted.

30:34SPEAKER_01:It's classic. I mean, listen, the black and white, you're you're wearing your colours today. You just embody the live it.

30:40SPEAKER_00:I live it. Um but again, back to you know, the the packaging itself, again, the print colour. For me, black and white embodies everyone's invited. Everybody should be able to access. Whether you're younger, older, male, female, I don't care who you are. I want you to feel like I could pick that bottle up and put it on my bathroom shelf. I don't want it to feel exclusion-y. I want everyone to feel like this is just part of my daily life. So we made loads of compromises when it comes to packaging.

31:07SPEAKER_00:Um, however, alongside that, trying to be as recycle-friendly as possible. So all of our products are over 50% PCR, and all of our products are recyclable as well. So we're trying to do the right thing as well as you know, making them affordable. But then outside of that, it's how do we source our ingredients? So most startup brands will go to a supplier and say, hey, this is the product I want, these are the ingredients I want, this is the packaging I want, go make it happen.

31:36SPEAKER_00:And they effectively become the middleman. So they will put their mark up. We go direct to the raw material suppliers and actually often cut out that middleman. So again, we are getting the same grade of active from the raw material suppliers, but we're doing it in a way that's more um cost-saving to us so we can pass that cost on to the consumer. So every single part of our supply chain we have tried to make as efficient as possible so the consumer doesn't pay.

32:06SPEAKER_00:Then it comes to operational, you know, internally, every penny counts. Any marketing dollar has to pay back. You know, we are very, very clear on the ROI of marketing. You know, I am traveling in economy, I am not staying in fancy hotels. You know, eight years on, every single penny counts because I want that customer to get the best quality product at the best possible price. Is that an easy way to build a business? Hell no. And sometimes I think, you know what?

32:39SPEAKER_00:If I'd have charged double this, I could be staying in a fancy hotel suite right now. But you know what? It's worth it because I'm doing something right for the consumer, which is, you know, you cannot get this formula at this price anywhere else. So I'm super, super proud. I'm not selling cheap skincare here. I'm selling incredible skincare at a great price with knowledge that helps you to be empowered for your skin.

33:04SPEAKER_01:Amazing. I I I love the reverse engineer mindset. It's so, you know, what is the willingness to pay? What's the price they want? And then how do we back into that? You make it happen. That's our problem. That's legally our problem.

33:16SPEAKER_02:I think the fact that you choose coach over business when you go to a business, it it just shows the level of integrity you have. And again, I'm blown away by that. Yeah. But I do have I do have a tough question for you. When the mission, the margin, and the consumer cannot all win equally, who gets the final vote?

33:40SPEAKER_00:Shall I give you an example? Yes. We um we made a loss on our hyaluronic acid for two years.

33:50SPEAKER_02:My acid.

33:51unknown:Oh!

33:52SPEAKER_02:Your acid. Your one.

33:54SPEAKER_01:What kind of acid, Jackie?

33:55SPEAKER_02:Hyaluronic.

33:57SPEAKER_01:There we go. Nailed it. You can teach an old dog new tricks. See that? I love it. Wow. No comments.

34:05SPEAKER_02:You went there.

34:06SPEAKER_01:I mean, you're like the lady of dogs, the the cavalier King Charles of the dog breeds, Jackie. The fanciest of the foochas.

34:17SPEAKER_00:I love this. It's taking a turn. We're we're we're in we're in dog territory.

34:21SPEAKER_02:I love it. Colette, tell us your example. I I'm so eager to hear this.

34:26SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so um fundamentally we believe that healthy skin is hydrated skin. So you can have all the actives, you can have all the, you know, all the fancy droppers and you know, all the treatments and the appeals and you know, all the things that are out there on the market. But fundamentally, most skin issues start with dehydration. So we said, what do we want people to do? Like Mark and I said, like, what's the fundamentals of skincare? You know, wash your face properly.

34:56SPEAKER_00:Like when you see young kids doing all these things, and you know, my daughter's still got an a teller on her face, and I'm like, why do you want those dewy drops when you're when you've literally got an Attella on your face? Um, so wash, wash your wash your face well and hydrate your skin, right? It's as simple as that. So we said, right, how do we create a hyaluronic acid, which is, you know, the gold standard of hydration? It's a really easy, simple way to get hydration into your skin.

35:22SPEAKER_00:How do we deliver a formula that is absolutely wonderful, multimolecular? So it's gonna go deep into the skin, plump that skin out, and give it amazing hydration. It's not gonna feel sticky and tacky to the touch because a lot of more affordable products do then suffer from the kind of not great texture and consistency. So, how do we make it feel good so people want to use it? And then we kind of couldn't make the maths math and said, well, actually, we can't cost this in.

35:53SPEAKER_00:And we said, Do you know what? We're gonna take a bet on this. And we know if enough people buy it and we can scale it to a level, we will make money. So we said, do the right thing for the consumer, give them a product they're gonna love, and then one day it's gonna work. And we did it. So we sold our hyaluronic acid at a loss.

36:14SPEAKER_01:And and can't that's I I mean, I know I've heard a lot of businesses and been in businesses where there's always that loss leader, right? That drives the traffic and interest. And um, but is there a tipping point for that? How long did you knowingly sustain the loss? And you know, what did you need the product to maybe prove to beyond that immediate profitability to keep it at a loss?

36:39SPEAKER_00:I think we were very lucky. We took a punt and um we've just got the most incredible story that three months into launching the brand, we had a call from Sephora. Um so within six months, we had gone from an online only UK indie small brand to being on the shelves of Sephora in the US. So I think for us that scale tipped way quicker than we expected, honestly. Um, but I would in a kind of a sliding doors moment, you know, how long would I have gone on for to have a Los Ender?

37:16SPEAKER_00:Um, I think I think that particular product though, I was just so passionate and I knew the product was so wonderful. And when people used it, they would build that kind of real trust and advocacy for the brand. And and once you try it, you kind of think, oh, this is an interesting brand. Okay, I like it. Okay, let's go back for more. So, you know, I was I was very confident in that product to know that it would it would play a really critical role for the brand.

37:40SPEAKER_01:And is that how you explain the strategy to an investors or financial partners with that same conviction?

37:47SPEAKER_00:I yes, and also maybe, you know, show the total margin versus the margin.

37:55SPEAKER_01:Yes. This is one piece of you know of the bigger puzzle, and actually, you know, as a brand we can make it work. Yes. Yeah, yes. Uh um, well, obviously that story uh proves you are measuring more than just units and margin, and you're you're really measuring that relationship with the consumer and building that trust and being the credible go-to brand for them. And Jackie, I think this is where Ask Inky becomes really interesting.

38:23SPEAKER_02:Oh, absolutely. So you have, you know, you have most businesses who still treat customer service as a department customer's contact when something has gone wrong. You created Ask Inky as a place where people could ask skin core qu skincare questions, even when the answer might not involve buying one of your products. Is Ask Inky customer care, education, product research, community building, or your most valuable competitive moat? All of the above.

39:03SPEAKER_00:So we have we have a we have a customer service which is very specific to if you've got an order, you know, for our DTC website, that is completely separate. So that is for me is is true kind of customer service, product specific, DTC specific. Um Ask Inky was built in 2020, and again, we took a bit of a leap very early on. We within our first 10 employees, um one of those we decided to become a free skincare support advisor, and it's called Ask Inky.

39:37SPEAKER_00:So it's basically getting skincare support at any time, day or night, 365, from our team on skincare. And that was it. And um the job of the advisor and the KPIs for the advisor was about relationship building. They weren't tasked on selling products, and to this day, they're not KPI'd on selling products. It's about building a relationship with the consumer and helping them to know if they need support, we're here for them. If they then go on in three months, three years to buy us, if they're in a Sephora store and they say, That's the brand that helped me out when I was struggling with acne that time.

40:16SPEAKER_00:For me, there's that longer-term advocacy build that can be delivered through that moment in time. If you can help somebody at the exact moment they need them, that's super powerful. And to the point where the Askinky team have a list of other brands' products that we recommend because I want them to have the right product for their skin. And that might not be my own. So I think that for us, really early on, it was really, you know, back to the why.

40:43SPEAKER_00:Why do we exist? You know, we want to spread the beauty of knowledge to the world. We believe that better knowledge powers better decisions. Okay, brilliant, I can do it on pack, and you guys can see, you know, on packaging, if you pick up our product, it'll tell you what to use and when to use it. Brilliant. But sometimes people need more than that. So for me, I had to embody that truly through everything we do. So every social post that we deliver has to be informative, educative.

41:11SPEAKER_00:Um, and when we set up our socials, I I KPI'd the team on saves. So not engagement and likes, but saves. So, how many people are saving my content? Because actually, that really means it's powerful to them. And our Ask Inky team are there in the comments supporting and helping people with their skin. So for me, Ask Inky is the embodiment of the brand as a totality. Um, and then we've now scaled that beyond, and we have an Inky Insider community um that is driven.

41:43SPEAKER_00:We have nearly a million people signed up to our Inky Insider community where we use them and our Ask Inkey kind of insight that we get from teams to literally create products. So we know at any given point, any given week, you know, what is it that people are interested in? So right now we're in height of summer, coming into late summer, hyperpigmentation. That's that's the concern on the top of everybody's minds. So, you know, we're understanding from Ask Inky, that's the kind of conversations that are coming through.

42:14SPEAKER_00:From our insider communities, I'm now at a point where I'm getting on calls with them. We're asking them, and we've actually created a subsection of our brand called the Inky Lab. I don't know if you've seen this. Um, so the Inky Lab, um, I started it about nine months ago. And basically, this is community-driven products.

42:37SPEAKER_02:Wow.

42:38SPEAKER_00:So they actually help us to develop products. So I will we will do a type form where thousands of people will say, What product do you want to see? What ingredients are you loving? They'll give us all the insight. Then I will get on a call with about 500 people, it's absolute chaos. Um, so I have to mute everybody and we in the chat, and then I'll kind of unmute people and we'll start chatting and they'll say, I love this, but I wish it was more this and da-da-da-da-da-da.

43:03SPEAKER_00:And we build it, and we actually delivered our first um community-led product, which was a Milky Toner back in February, which was truly community-driven. So for me, like Ask Inky, Inky Insider, Inky Lab, we've created this ecosystem of supporting consumers and bringing them into the brand. Look, I'm not the expert in everyone and everyone's skin. I want people to tell me what they want. I want them to tell us what they need from the Inky list, and then we can create it together.

43:34SPEAKER_02:You're creating a beauty movement, Collab. Yes. You're very disruptive. You're creating a this incredible community who, first of all, as a consumer, I would be thrilled if somebody asked me my opinion about products that that I'm using. And to actually say when it comes out, oh, you know what? I contributed to that.

43:58SPEAKER_03:Yeah.

43:58SPEAKER_02:And how amazing. Does that make your average consumer feel in terms of feeling like they have had a part in something bigger than themselves? It's that is fantastic.

44:09SPEAKER_01:That is just the just the stuff that you get on the call, like yourself. You don't have, you know, a lower junior level employee running this. You are literally there having those conversations, like talk about you know, knowing your consumer, being really immersing yourself and be putting yourself in their shoes. You don't that's very uncommon. You are you are rare.

44:33SPEAKER_00:I think I'm consumer obsessed, and I always have been. So from day one of the why to our brand, like why do we want to do this? We want to do this because consumers were on Reddit. They were on Reddit talking to each other. So, like that that's what got me excited to start with. So now I've got my own community. I don't need to go onto Reddit. I can come to my own community and say, hey, tell us, what do you want? Um it's the best feeling. It's the best feeling and the stories that you hear on the you know, the impact that we've had on their lives.

45:00SPEAKER_00:You know, some people, you know, really struggle with their skin and to be the brand that they they feel comfortable coming to. You know, they don't feel like we're, you know, an elevated brand. You know, I'm like, come, ask me anything. Ask, ask, literally, ask us anything. So yeah, it's nice. It's nice to have built a community that yeah, part of the brand.

45:18SPEAKER_02:That that direct relationship is so incredibly powerful, and you have nurtured that um so so gently and with so much compassion and warmth. You know, the but the brand also has to show up inside very different retail environments, too.

45:36SPEAKER_00:Right? Very much so, very much so. And it's uh it's getting harder. The the the challenge um and the where where the beaut market is now, you know, from when we launched the brand, it was a DTC world. You know, do you remember everyone was obsessed with how big can you make your DTC, which I I get from a community perspective, but also it was incredibly expensive from a cat perspective. Yeah. And and then it was kind of the the retail, and you know, we're in retail, we're in stores, and then COVID hit, and then everybody went home, and it was back to DTC and and and e-commerce.

46:12SPEAKER_00:And then the kind of Amazon boom came in, and you know, everyone said, Should we be on Amazon? Is that brand damaging? Or, you know, how does the Amazon play? And then let's bring in TikTok shop. So, even over eight years for me, the commerce world has just completely transformed and trying to play a role in each space is is a learning journey for sure.

46:32SPEAKER_01:Oh. And obviously, when consumers enter through those different doors, those different channels, they have different expectations and different needs. So, how do you how do you protect that very clear, consistent brand promise while still adapting to those different retailers and those different consumer missions and occasions?

46:52SPEAKER_00:And that's exactly it. It's understanding the consumer mission in each touch point. Now, it's not linear, and that's what you find more and more. You know, people are going, you know, starting on Amazon or starting on TikTok, and then they're in a Sephora and they're back on Amazon price checking, and you know, it's a constant um movement. But what we try to do is again back to the brand mission of I just want to give people the right knowledge, simplify it, and make it as easy as possible.

47:20SPEAKER_00:So, in a retail environment, you know, I'm just about to get onto um a visual merchandising call to say, how is the shopper mission going? So we have a full field team out in stores. So they're telling me where a consumer's gravitating to, where are they struggling, where are we having to come in and help them? Because you know what, it's not clear enough the differentiation between your moisturizers. How does the visual merchandising give them enough information and enough proof, but also not overwhelm?

47:47SPEAKER_00:So that's kind of the retail landscape. Then you've got Amazon, which is very like in your face, like tell me the price, tell me the benefits, make sure there's enough proof and reviews. So, like how again, how do I make sure that I'm delivering enough knowledge, but actually their mission is is way quicker and they're in a conversion journey. So, you know, how do I play that role? You know, and then TikTok is just a whole different world, and you know, I'm there on the live streams, you know, you know, that's for me my favorite.

48:17SPEAKER_00:On a TikTok shop live stream, I can be the best version of me and my brand because I'm there talking through the products, explaining it. I've got the chat and people saying, but what are dark spots? Okay, let's talk about it. Like for me, that that two-way relationship with the customer who's shopping is my favorite.

48:38SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I have a question. What happens when retailer data and your own community feedback and learnings you have from there maybe contradict or point in different directions?

48:50SPEAKER_00:They do a lot. I think um also depending on the environment that you're in, we're often in a slightly more luxury environment. So actually, the retailer, you know, they will be about single hero luxury products and and and want us to focus on that one single hero, which is you know, where every brand wins. My perspective is, you know, I'm helping to build people routines, I'm helping them to understand their total skin journey. So there is a little bit of a flex on I understand the environment that I'm in, and maybe I will hero, you know, the product, you know, the hyaluronic acid.

49:29SPEAKER_00:It's like this is for everybody, you know, that's the one to highlight. But I also need to be true to me as a brand and make sure that people aren't coming to the inky list, you know, for that, you know, that gorgeous luxury moisturizer. They're coming to get help. So therefore, the routine building is actually really important for me. So it's it's it's just balancing the two of understanding the retail data and environment, but then also being true to yourself, the brand.

49:56SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I, you know, uh, beauty discovery, you're right, has been on this journey. And obviously, today, you if you talk about beauty, you need to talk about TikTok as you did. Um, and obviously, TikTok and the viability of that can really make a product, any product, famous before you know, you you even think about the the demand planning that goes behind it. So maybe uh Jackie, if you want to dig in there.

50:23SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. You know, you have TikTok who rewards speed and novelty and and entertainment. Skincare requires trust, education, and realistic expectations. So, how do you succeed in that environment without allowing the algorithm to rewrite the entire mission?

50:43SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's tough. It's really tough. And I think we all as brands wanted virality. You know, at one point that was the kind of buzz, and obviously retailers loved it until they realized it actually doesn't work from a supply chain perspective at all because you know, you get that bump, and then by the time it's back in stock, you know, the moment's over. Um, what I will say is TikTok and TikTok shop specifically is very, very reliant on the affiliate community, which I love because affiliates are talking about your brand more than you are, which is brilliant, but also has its downsides because in theory they can deliver whatever narrative they want and they can deliver that, you know, the hooks and the sexiness and you know that, you know, kind of moving away from who we are as a brand, which is we want you to feel informed before you go on to, you know, purchase a product.

51:37SPEAKER_00:It comes back to my ethos of knowledge and education, and we've built an affiliate community that we will educate. So we will get them on calls. We have um a live chat with them where we're educating them constantly on the products. So what even when they're talking about our brands and our products, they are well informed and understand our mission of knowledge versus you know, doing the the silly, you know, the very viral things that that brands are doing that kind of just instantly sells the product.

52:08SPEAKER_00:So what I try to do is, you know, no matter what the channel is trying to maintain the integrity of the brand. What do we stand for? And if we're talking about the products of the brand, or someone on our behalf is, we want them to do it in a way that feels inky. We don't want them to sell a hype. We want them to sell truly a um uh a support.

52:33SPEAKER_02:You want them to inculcate trust as opposed to sell hype.

52:38SPEAKER_00:Exactly that. And that's tough. That's tough on a on a in a TikTok environment, and it's also really tempting because you can see incredible success when you play into the hype, but it's it's not who we are as a brand.

52:51SPEAKER_02:So, what makes a product naturally right for social commerce? And which of them have performed well? Um, where you were genuinely surprised that it had?

53:04SPEAKER_00:So I think social commerce is visual, visual, visual. You know, it has to play well on camera. So that's like number one. Um, I think also like storytelling, there has to be something to it. So, as well as that kind of fun visual, you know, what is it doing? What's the storytelling that sits behind it? I think we've had one product um specifically in the UK, we are the number one body product on TikTok shop, um, which is absolutely phenomenal. So, our glycolic acid body stick.

53:35SPEAKER_00:What's quite interesting about that product is glycolic acid is has is trending and has been trending for about two to three years, and a lot of people are using toners and putting it onto cotton pads and hacking it all over their body. So there became this sort of trend of hacking. And we said, hey, there must be a better, simpler way for the consumer. So we took the premise of a glycolic acid and put it into effectively a cream deodorant stick because it could be used for multiple different benefits on the skin, but is done in a way that is gonna be uh that's gonna work, the actives are gonna be efficacious, but it's also super calming for the skin.

54:16SPEAKER_00:It's not gonna irritate the skin. Now, what was brilliant about this stick, particularly, is it looked super visual. So you can very much show it's glycolic in a stick, and you're like, hey, but that looks like a deodorant. No, it's a it's a body product. Super interesting, like narrative behind that. Yeah. What we found works incredibly well is that product does lots of things. It helps with those KP bumps, it helps with underarm discoloration. Okay, it helps with dry cracked heels, it's got it's got nine different uses.

54:47SPEAKER_00:And why that's worked really well on social commerce is that you can lean into one story and you end up with a really niche community that are like, oh, I've got KP or I've got discoloration, and you've got this community that are super engaged. And if you can lean into each solution in a very different way with the same product, you're activating a community that has a problem. So that product does lots of things and is super visual, and guess what?

55:17SPEAKER_00:It works. So you can show those before and afters, and we can get that efficacy like landing through visual wow, like in three days, my skin literally has transformed. So I think for me, they're the kind of three social commerce kind of must-haves, I would say.

55:33SPEAKER_01:Christina saw the product and I was just like, hmm. And then I I was reading in all the different, I'm like, this is brilliant.

55:41SPEAKER_00:Like, why so and this is what we found with the Inky list. You know, it oh, let's let's empower people with knowledge. Uh duh. You know, let's create a glycolic acid and a stick that does things. I feel like we we have the kind of duh brand of skincare, if you will.

55:58SPEAKER_01:But I didn't know that glycolic acid could help with all those, you know, different skin issues. And that's where I was like, I I need like at least a dozen more because yes, you want to use them on the different areas, absolutely. Right, yeah.

56:12SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna have to leave you to do the rest of this yourself because I need to go try this now.

56:19SPEAKER_00:Love it. I need to see your results.

56:23SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, a before and after, absolutely. Although, do you need to see the before, really?

56:28SPEAKER_01:Oh, I do. I I feel like she she wants to.

56:34SPEAKER_02:So going back to TikTok, um, Collette, does do you think that it makes skincare education better or louder?

56:45SPEAKER_00:Oh, I'm very torn. I'm very, very torn because for me, the democratization of knowledge, and that'll come through TikTok, and that comes from AI and all the chat chat GPTs, and you know, the fact that knowledge is much more available now is brilliant. With that comes a lot of misinformation. Um, so what makes me nervous about both TikTok and and the AI world is that people can get incorrect information and not know who to trust. Yeah. And that for me is where we come in because you know, all of the content and the flooding of information, all of the kind of online information that you can get is great, but just being able to say, hey, like who can I physically trust here and who can I know that is going to give me the right information, that's where I still want them to turn to Inky.

57:41SPEAKER_00:And back to that human element, there's nothing that really replaces a human. So actually, the you know, the role of Ask Inky and the role of you know, my team and the community we're building is brilliant, go in, go and get 90% of the information, you know, go do the deep reading, go do the research, you know, listen to your favorite influencer talking about the product, but actually just with a sense check for me on accuracy and trust. And that's the role I think that that I play now.

58:10SPEAKER_01:And you know, skincare is so personal, and it everybody's skin is different. Um, you know, people deal with all different ailments, acne, aging, sensitivity, confidence. You you talked about that. Um so how does let's talk about AI, right? You mentioned that, you just uh pointed to that. So how can AI maybe process information at you know extraordinary scale to understand all those those different um needs and skin types? Um, but it doesn't automatically understand, you know, maybe the emotion behind the question, the question behind the question.

58:45SPEAKER_01:So what should AI be trusted to do in skincare? We've seen a lot. And what, in your opinion, needs to remain human?

58:55SPEAKER_00:I think I I as I said, I don't think anything can replace that kind of human, that that softer to your point, the emotion, the real understanding behind, you know, your skin issues can be caused by multiple different things. You know, there'd be lifestyle issues, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot more to it than just you know looking at a photo of your face. Now, the brilliance of it is, you know, thinking back to when I was young, you know, I was using alcohol wipes on my acne.

59:21SPEAKER_00:So what's brilliant is you know, the skincare industry's moved on and the and the information's moved on, which is which is great. And actually, if you have hyperpigmentation, you know, researching and using, you know, AI and and using um the online world to help you to understand that is brilliant because you're learning more. You're learning about the causes, and actually you might be trying to fix it, but you're still out in the sun every day without an SPF.

59:45SPEAKER_00:So just those basic fundamental kind of learning and understanding about your skin and about the skincare um category, I think it's brilliant. But I think nothing replaces human. Now, unfortunately, not everybody has access to a dermatologist, and that's the dream, right? That everybody can go to a dermatologist, have that one-on-one personal approach. But for me, what I'm trying to do is democratize that and give everybody access so we can be a brand that you can come to and get support, you can have that in-depth conversation.

1:00:16SPEAKER_00:We have teams in stores that are skincare experts to help support you. For me, nothing beats that human-to-human support and connection.

1:00:25SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And obviously, technology has evolved those tools, but um, maybe uh let's step back a little bit because the founder judgment, as we've clearly seen today, still shapes the company. And um, much of that judgment was developed long before the in-key list was actually here. So yeah, let's let's spend some time there.

1:00:49SPEAKER_02:You know, you spent uh almost decade at Boots before being a founder. So, what did corporate colette teach founder colette? And what did and what did the founder life force you to unlearn?

1:01:04SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness. Um so I will say it's quite interesting because I've got some young team members that have never done corporate, and it's fascinating to see the difference of growing up in corporate. I was very lucky. In a corporate environment, you get to learn a lot. And I was very curious, and I would say, you know, my one thing to people when they're young in their career is just be as curious as possible. I did, I think, seven different roles at Boots.

1:01:31SPEAKER_00:So I went across kind of merchandising, visual merchandising, product development, marketing. You know, I did the full span and it really taught me the back end of my industry and really understanding, you know, what is the most important thing, a PL. Like you have to work out what you're doing, what is it making money? Um, but also the nuances of packaging, sizing, you know, all the real unsexy stuff I learned a lot of. And I also learned how to sell.

1:02:04SPEAKER_00:Like ultimately, you know, in that corporate environment, I was selling myself on a daily basis. I was showing up to meetings, I was, you know, going up the career ladder, and it gave me, I think, a confidence that I that I'm seeing some of our more junior team don't have because they've kind of been thrown into the workplace and haven't written an email before. You know, they're there there's a lot of learning that's done there. So I loved it. I had 10 years in corporate and I wouldn't take it back for the world.

1:02:33SPEAKER_00:And Boots were such a wonderful employer. Um, I think what I had to unlearn was some of the decision making uh back to the consumer first.

1:02:43SPEAKER_03:Yeah.

1:02:44SPEAKER_00:You know, it would be, you know, we we we we're launching another mascara, right? Why? Um, because we launched one in June last year and we need to replicate the sales, and and you're then therefore creating a new product because you need to, not because the consumer needs one. So there was a there's a kind of a I learned like true consumer first decision making from being an entrepreneur. Um, and let's talk pace. You know, you can I I'll I'll never forget being in corporate and um somebody leaving for maternity leave.

1:03:20SPEAKER_00:And in in the UK, you get sort of nine months at least uh maternity, they it's quite a long and they would come back after maternity and say, So what's changed? And we'd be like nothing, nothing really. Um, and you know, decisions take so long, and there's a lot of bureaucracy. And I think what I learned immediately, you know, being an entrepreneur is you go, you have an insight, you have a gut feel, and you go, and we just move quick. And and again, that's a real learning.

1:03:48SPEAKER_00:And I think again, like employees coming into the company are kind of like, okay, what's going on? And we've moved and we've gone on, and we've got three projects live at once, and it's it's a lot, it's a lot. But I think for me, I just thrive. I just thrive. I love having the understanding and the background and the insight and that kind of corporate, but I just love going. And you know, we have scaled incredibly fast because we just move, and I think that is so exciting being very, you know, an entrepreneur that can drive that mentality.

1:04:21SPEAKER_02:But and so now we get to the hindsight question, the one that separates the highlight real from the actual founder's story, Christina.

1:04:30SPEAKER_01:Yes. So, Cola, knowing what you know now, which is a lot, what would you do differently? And are there any mistakes that you would willingly make again because of what it taught you?

1:04:43SPEAKER_00:So I've made so many mistakes I can't even write them down. Um but yes, um, I kind of one of our fundamental principles when we started the business was start at yes. Um, and when Sephora came in in after three months and said, we want to launch you in North America, we just said yes. Um, we had no entity set up, we had no warehouse, we had no supply chain available in the US. We had nothing. We had no reason to believe we could do it, but we just said yes.

1:05:12SPEAKER_00:So I would willingly make that mistake again because we found a way, we did it, and it and it kind of changed the trajectory of our entire business and our lives. Um, but that was again a risky game. Um, and something that I would maybe not do again is um hire so quickly. Um I think you know, your your tendency is we're too busy, we need more people. And what I will say is there was a kind of sweet spot at under 50 people where you can move really quickly, everybody's engaged, and you can kind of really get the pace and that clarity.

1:05:50SPEAKER_00:I think beyond 50 people, it we start to feel heavy and you start to get that division of teams. So I will say, you know, 50. Thinking about what do you truly need in terms of staff? More people often means more problems. So that's probably something if I was to start again, I would kind of reassess, you know, who do you truly need? And therefore, if you need more people, why? And actually, is the thing that you are doing, is it worth it?

1:06:22SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's right. Yeah, just being more thoughtful about you know why and when you expand. Exactly. Um what is one rule women find founders are expected to follow that you would happily throw in the bin? We can do everything.

1:06:39SPEAKER_02:Wait, we can't? What?

1:06:42SPEAKER_00:I I I felt I felt actually the pressure of that for a very long time. I think I now I've become much more confident to think I can I can only do what I can do. I'll give it my best shot. But I think the pressure to, you know, be on and be smiley and and do everything and do the house and do everything. And yeah, like it's just a lot. It's a lot. And I I think I struggled with that for a while. Whereas now I'm like, pay, like, but there's no food in my house.

1:07:14SPEAKER_00:We'll we'll deal with it. And you know what? I'm hungry, but I'll there are services though. Exactly. And I but also I would beat myself up about that. You know, it's my job to make sure there's food in the house. And you know, no, I've done a 90-hour week, there's no food in the house. Okay, we will live to your point. Yeah, we'll we'll order something in, it's fine. So I think it's just becoming more comfortable with myself about uh we I don't have to do it all, and I that's okay.

1:07:38SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and giving yourself that grace. Yeah, um can you complete this sentence? Better knowledge powers better decisions and better leaders can change the world.

1:07:54SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, I love it. I love it. We're now moving into our rapid fire questions. Um, question and answers. So don't think about it, just say the first thing that comes into your head when we answer when we answer this. Okay. So, one skincare myth you would erase forever.

1:08:15SPEAKER_00:Stop overexfoliating your skin. Why are we glamorizing exfoliating too much? It is ruining your skin barrier.

1:08:24SPEAKER_01:I can tell you're passion about this. Okay, the NK Lis product most like your personality.

1:08:34SPEAKER_00:Okay, the exosome hydroglow complex. Because it's a multitasker, it's gonna hydrate, regenerate, renew, and give you the most glow. It packs a punch, um, and it's a little bottle. And it's and it's vivaceous. You see, Colin, you can do it all just like the oh my. I'm gonna listen back to this and think, what have I just said?

1:09:05SPEAKER_02:All right, most overhyped beauty buzzword.

1:09:09SPEAKER_00:So hyperchlora spray, everybody's obsessed with it's this and antimicrobial spray, but everyone seems to think it's it's the world. And it it if you put too much on, it's actually not good for your skin. But everyone's obsessed with it at the minute.

1:09:23SPEAKER_01:Oh, good to know. All right, what purchase under$30 brings you unreasonable joy? Doesn't have to be in skincare.

1:09:30SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness. Under$30 or sorry, under 30 pounds. The a red lipstick every time. Yes, Jackie, Soul Sisters. I honestly I'm feeling slightly under the weather today, and um, I've been in five hours of back-to-back meetings and came on here, and I was like, okay, where am I gonna get my energy from to make sure that this is a good podcast? And do you know what I did? I put my red lip on and I was like, let's go! Every time. Let's go.

1:09:59SPEAKER_02:What is your founder's survival song?

1:10:04SPEAKER_00:Am I allowed to swear?

1:10:05SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Okay.

1:10:07SPEAKER_00:Um it's actually it's actually quite embarrassing, but it's the only thing that if I am working out or I'm like in a rut or I need a little moment, it's Brittany Spears work. Oh, that is a good one. It really, it really gets me pumping. So if I just need a minute, I'm like, okay, let's go. I'm ready. Uh-huh. Terrible example, but it's true. No, it's a good one.

1:10:35SPEAKER_01:Love it. All right. And what last question? What do you wish people asked you more often? Maybe not about the company, but about you.

1:10:45SPEAKER_00:Oh, um, I would say that kind of beneath the hood, um, I'm actually, I suffer horrendously with um imposter syndrome. Um so I think I would want anybody listening to this to know that, you know, I'm passionate, I'm excited, but actually I spend most days thinking I can't do this.

1:11:09SPEAKER_02:But you do it.

1:11:10SPEAKER_00:But you do it and you do it brilliantly.

1:11:13SPEAKER_02:So, so brilliantly.

1:11:14SPEAKER_00:I mean But it's real, you know. I I wouldn't want people to think, oh, she's off there doing this amazing thing, but actually, no, we're all just humans struggling to get by every day.

1:11:23SPEAKER_02:After this episode, Claude, I think you're gonna have a lot of people having a girl crush on you because I'm fangirling.

1:11:30SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally.

1:11:32SPEAKER_02:Hard.

1:11:33SPEAKER_00:Ah not just about the hyaluronic acid.

1:11:36SPEAKER_02:No, no, no. Also, exosome now.

1:11:39SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, get that on twice a day, every day. Like my skin does a glycolic stitch. Oh, yeah. Oh, I've just done a massive sales pitch, haven't I?

1:11:47SPEAKER_01:And I want to try the Milky Toner. I mean, all of it.

1:11:50SPEAKER_00:All of it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for having me.

1:11:54SPEAKER_02:Oh no, it's been our pleasure. But before we make this official collect, who is we want to ask, who is one woman whose work or voice or business more people should know about that really inspires you?

1:12:06SPEAKER_00:Ooh, that is a great question. One woman. Well, uh, do you know what's hard is because I am inspired by successful women in the public space. And this doesn't quite answer the question, but I have a group of women that I've collected along the way. Um, and we have a a group chat that's called The Cheerleaders. Oh. And we are all we all have um very different jobs and careers. Someone owns an agency, someone works in retail, obviously, I've got a brand, and we all have very different careers and very different journeys, but we inspire each other and cheerlead each other every day.

1:12:52SPEAKER_00:And they, for me, every single woman in that group inspires me more than you know, somebody I've never met before. Oh, just they're real. I I know that you know, she's struggling, she's got three kids at home, and but she's doing this incredible thing, and it's like seeing and connecting with these amazing women. So for me, more inspiring is you know, women that are actually doing it rather than someone on a s on a screen, maybe.

1:13:17SPEAKER_01:Can we be your V list? Um, hell yeah! Get in the chat, get in the chat. You you can't I love that. Uh well, with every episode of SheCommerce where we are building our growing network of female leaders and advocates. And Colette, will you take the pledge with us to pay it forward, amplify women's voices, and help shape the future of commerce and beauty?

1:13:42SPEAKER_00:I absolutely shall.

1:13:45SPEAKER_02:Amazing. Colette, thank you so much for giving us the real story, you know, the belief and the business model and the lessons behind the brand.

1:13:53SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because this is obviously not just a story about skincare. It's a story about giving consumers that power and knowledge to make their own decisions and to build the confidence within them and to obviously build a company that's brave enough to trust them with that knowledge.

1:14:12SPEAKER_02:And to everyone listening, keep building the brands, the careers, and the relationships like the cheerleaders that move plummers forward.

1:14:23SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so just one thing left bold brands, fierce women, one sisterhood. Ah lovely.