#320: Emma's Book Querying Journey

0:00Elsie You're listening to the A Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host Elsie Larson. Emma And I'm your host Emma Chapman. Elsie In this week's episode, Emma is telling the story of her querying journey and the path to traditionally publishing her romance novel. It's a great story, and I'm very excited for you to get to hear it. We're also going to answer a listener question about holiday decorating and a hot take about potlucks. Oh yeah, potlucks, hot take. It's gonna be a lukewarm take, if that. Okay, you'll get that joke later. So before we jump in, Alana sent us a listener question that has to do with holiday decorating, it says I was wondering how you approach holiday decorating in your homes, Halloween and Christmas. Do you decorate with the same items in the same way each year, or do you redesign your holiday decor each year to be fresh and new? If you're adding new decor items every year, do you consider your collections complete, and are you reusing existing pieces? Okay, so I guess I can go first. Yeah, so I use the same items every year. I have a pretty big collection, and at this moment, I would definitely call

0:15it complete on both collections. But I do add at least one special item every year because it's fun for me and I enjoy it, and you know I like it. But I will say that now that I kind of have all the the holiday decor that I need, I do tend to focus a little bit more on like like I'll get like cute stuff that we can use for holiday baking or like you know things that are like a craft that we can do like things that are things that you use, so it's not necessarily like another thing for the basement. So that's kind of my tip for that. But I've been collecting Halloween and Christmas decor for about 10 years. So, and I think that's about as long as you need to be going hard at home goods and all of that. You know, I will always add another special piece, like if it speaks to me. But I feel like through the years, you just have to become more picky and more selective, and just not go crazy anymore. Like now, when I see like all the new stuff at Target, I am like, that's cool. It's fun to look at. It's interesting to walk through it. But I know that I don't really need anything, and I don't need to like have a full cart ever again? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of the same

0:26way. I have a lot of stuff already, and it's all in this big, big closet that kind of has our water heater. Emma Too, and we call it the holiday closet, and it has other things in there too. Elsie It's like a small bedroom size. Yeah. It's like a really cool space, and she made it all just for holidays, and it's kind of like lined with shelves. Emma Yeah,. We have a ton of skeletons that I use for decorating for Halloween, and I bought these wall hooks that you normally hang guitars on. I put those all around the room so I could hang the the skeletons so they wouldn't just be like in a big aisle, and it just made the room really funny too. So when you walk in, it's like whoa! There's like 12 skeletons on the wall. But yeah, I do have like collections that I'm still adding to. So like I do a Halloween tree. Yeah, it's basically a black Christmas tree. And part of why I like doing a Halloween tree, one, I just like the glow of a Christmas tree. So I like getting to do it for longer. So it's a Halloween tree, but I also we do a lot of handmade ornaments as like crafts with the kids. Like we'll do salt dough or just painted ones with pictures, just whatever. Like you can you can put

0:41anything on a tree. Did you know that? So I love making handmade ornaments. So that's sort of a collection that we're always adding to, and to be honest, sometimes they break, or you know, it's one of those collections that I'm trying to like save all the really special ones. But there are times like something breaks or just doesn't last or whatever, and that's okay too. And I have a a pretty big collection of Christmas ornaments. I feel like we have too many Christmas ornaments. Honestly, we have we use two trees for Christmas, and I still feel like as the boys continue to grow, I'm not gonna have space for all these ornaments. But I'm just gonna figure it out. But my Halloween tree is still like a little bit bare, so I have a lot of room there to do more fun stuff and to collect ornaments. They don't make as many Halloween ornaments, but I'm on the lookout. I'm always on the lookout. Yeah, and then another collection that we do that I don't consider done, but also I have a lot of it already is we do a spooky village, and we do that for Halloween. So we buy wooden birdhouses that you can buy online or

0:52at big craft stores or whatever, and I let the kids decorate them, kind of spooky, and every year we do one, so the collection grows and grows. And I just think that's really fun. And I also can see the boys' like artistic skills and motor skills kind of develop because their first ones are very simple, and then they continue on, and it's just really fun. And there may come a time when we don't do them, and the collection's complete, and that's great. So there's a lot of things like that that are kind of ongoing, and I usually like try to notice each year if there's something that I feel like I'm missing, like somehow I've made it this far and I didn't have a Halloween doormat. Oh, and I realized that last year, so this year I had it in my mind when I see a beautiful doormat, I'm gonna buy it. So, like sometimes I've just like noticed things, or like you may have like holiday dish towels or a Christmas oven mitt that gets like totally stained in blue, and then next year you buy a new. You know, so there's things like that. But overall, I feel like I'm done on the big stuff and the basics. It's just sort of handmade things or super

1:03special things that I'm still collecting, but it's kind of a kind of a done deal for me unless things get broken because it's full. It's really full. Elsie Yes. So what about the part of the question that's like, do you do it the same way every year or do you kind of do it differently each time? Emma I do. So like I said, for Christmas we have two trees, and it's in large part because I love the glow of a Christmas tree, and we just have too many ornaments, and so I just like having two trees. And one of the trees is large enough that there's really only one spot in our house that it goes, so it goes in the same spot every year. But the other tree, I kind of put different places depending on like what the kids' toys are doing that year, because like when you have a baby, a lot of times you have all this baby gear that's kind of like helping them learn to walk or bounce, and just your your house kind of changes when your kids are really little, like mine are. So I feel like that second Christmas tree has kind of moved around, and I don't know where it's even going to go this year, but it's still the same tree. It's just I don't

1:17really have a designated spot for it per se. I just kind of put it where I feel like it's not going to get damaged, and I don't have to move too many of the boys' things out of the way that they would be annoyed about, you know. But I think like overall, my house does look kind of the same, and I like that because I sort of like the idea that my kids will grow up and have like this is what house looks like for Christmas. This is what our house looks like for Halloween. Yeah, and yes, things are a little different here and there, you know. But I kind of like the idea that it is kind of the same every year because I think it kind of instills this feeling in you. And I and I don't even care if they grow up and want to decorate for the holidays themselves, that doesn't really matter to me. That's their choice. But just as they're a child, I want their childhood to be filled with magical, special, fun things that are sometimes silly, sometimes sentimental. And I think holidays are kind of both to me, especially Halloween, because it's very silly.

1:28Elsie Cute. Okay, for mine, I don't think I've lived in my home long enough. This is, I think, this year is our fourth Halloween and Christmas to live here, and we last year we only decorated for Christmas because of our renovation. So I don't know. I I feel like I'm still kind of just like tweaking every year, but I would say like overall it's definitely the same stuff, and maybe it's like slightly different rooms, or like you're moving things, you know, and trying. But yeah, I don't really worry too much about that. I kind of just decorate like on vibes, like you know, put on a movie, and I want to like feel good, and I'm gonna decorate for as long as I'm in the mood to do it, and then that's it. And then like I really don't care that much, and I don't think anyone else does either. Like, if it's perfect, or if like every like, I don't feel like I have to have the whole house like equally decorated or anything like that. So I'm just kind of just going for it.

1:39Emma Yeah, no, decorating for holidays for me is is joy and bliss. Yes, it is not folding the laundry, so there is no like I have to do this or oh I'm I still have to finish this, but I don't want to. I don't do any of that. Elsie Yeah. Emma If I'm tired and only one of the Christmas trees are up, only one of the trees are up. Like it just isn't a big deal. Agree. Elsie Who cares? Okay, so this week's topic we're talking about your querying journey, and I do want to say while we're getting into it that my querying journey is still active. I'm still going, so I'm going to do it mine on a future episode. And the common questions that people have sent me are the main thing that people ask me, even our friends after Girls Group, is: Am I jealous? Am I struggling with being jealous of it? Because this story has a happy ending. You guys are gonna love this story. The true honest answer is like I am thrilled. I am overjoyed, thrilled for her. I'm so happy she's done. I am not jealous at all. I'm kind of like doing my own, and she's you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's just not a competition, and it really, it literally isn't. And I think that it there's no reason for it to be in my mind. So

1:56anyway, this is a very happy, celebratory thing for me as well as her sister, because when you, when someone you love. Accomplishes a huge dream like that is something to celebrate. So let's start by kind of telling. You want to tell a little bit of your backstory, like writing your first novel and kind of how you started wanting to be a writer. Emma Yes, yes. I'm going to back up just a little bit because I just feel like sometimes when you hear people's like a success story, you can feel like, oh, that happened really easy for them. I'm sure it'll happen easy for me. And then if it doesn't, then you can feel like, oh, I'm not good at this, or my project's bad, or you know, like. And I don't like that. I kind of like hearing someone's full story because I just think that it makes it more accessible because art's hard, and doing art for a living is hard, and it's okay. And also, like everyone has successes and failures, and successes and failures, and successes and failures, and that's really normal. And if you're in the midst of a failure, it's hard to feel like that's normal because you

2:08just feel bad and sad and bummed and probably like second guessing yourself. And so I think it's nice to hear someone's full journey on things. So here, let me back up so you can hear me second guess myself a few times before we get to the end of the story. Okay, go for it. But I won't wait. It's super super long because you know. Okay, so anyway, so I started writing full length novels in 2019. It might have been the very end of 2018, and I was doing this in part because I've always loved writing. I started writing like short stories in college, and I always had an interest in writing, yada yada. And I've always read. I've been a reader since Harry Potter first came out when I was in sixth grade, and even before that, because I went off of on Goosebumps the other another episode ago. So yeah, I've always been a kid who loved reading, and so writing felt like something I would be interested in. And so, in 2018, 2019, I started writing full-length novels. I wrote my first one, and it was also in part because I was depressed.

2:18I really wanted to become a parent, and it wasn't happening for me yet for a number of reasons. And so, I was kind of distracting myself from depression by having a hobby that I knew could be just mine. I knew it wouldn't end up on the blog, and so that was part of it too for me. So writing saved me. So there you go. I also, by the way, went to therapy and talked to my friends. Yeah. So number of things there. Okay. So my first novel. Every time I write a novel, I give myself a writing assignment, we'll call it that.

2:23And my first one was just to finish a full-length novel. Which adult novels can be many different lengths, so you kind of just have to pick a number. So I picked 60,000 words. I was like, it's going to be one story, one cohesive story. Hopefully, the 60,000 words, and that was the only goal, and so I wrote something, and it's called Cloud Nine, and I intended it to be YA, but it really isn't. It's actually more of a middle grade book, which I discovered when I queried it, and I connected with an agent for Cloud Nine, but she pointed out to me very kindly and helpfully that it really should be a middle grade novel based on the age of the protagonist and just what the story is about, and the writing was at a place where it wasn't too. It could be middle grade, so I was like, "Oh, that's very interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I really like that because again, I'm such a big Arlestein fan, and you know it's not a spooky story, but just middle grade is a cool place to be on a bookshelf. I'm interested, but again, as I said, I was at a place in my life where I wanted to be a parent, and it wasn't happening for me yet. So I kind of took stock of that.

2:34I was like, okay, what's the best case scenario here? And it was like, well, you could get this middle grade book published and become a famous middle grade author, and I was like, I actually think that might be bad in case I don't end up having kids, because I think if I had to go do readings and like get fan mail from children, and I was still like longing to be a parent and feeling like it wasn't going to happen, I was like, I don't think I can do that. So I was like, I think I need to pause. So the agent I had connected with. I told her I needed to pause. I was going to write another novel. I just felt that I wanted to start with an adult novel. I don't think I told her too much about the personal stuff because you know it's private. But anyway, and she was like, "Okay, great. Send me, you know, send me stuff in the future.

2:42Let me know. Bye. So yep. So I was like, "Okay. So then my next book I wrote was a book called Handmade Murder. Some of you have read it. Thank you so much. And I started that before I ever got pregnant with my first son. And part of my writing assignment for that was I wanted to write a villain. I'd never really written a villain, and so that was the writing assignment: was to write a realistic and scary villain. If you've read the book or you've read a synopsis of the book, I think it is a pretty terrifying villain.

2:47The book has a lot to do with miscarriage and things around that. So I started writing that, and then I got pregnant, and I quickly discovered that I'm superstitious. So I took a long time to write Handmade Murder because. It is a lot about miscarriage, and I'm apparently much more superstitious than I realized. Why not superstitious? I'm a little sticious. No, I'm just so anyway. So eventually, I did finish it, and in the meantime, I had a baby and kept working full time and all those things. And so once I finished it, I was like, I really like this. I guess I should query it. So I very halfheartedly queried it. I think I sent it out to about less than 10 agents, and I didn't hear back from very many. But I did hear back from a few, and more than once, people told me I just don't want to read this because I have struggled with something like that, or something like that has happened in my life, and I just don't really want to read this.

2:57Elsie The trigger warnings are pretty serious on that book. Emma Which is very fair. So I was kind of like, okay, I'm feeling like this may not happen with an agent, and so I think I'm just going to self publish it and start working on my next book because I'm, you know, I wanted to keep writing them. I wanted to have a new writing assignment. I just think like writing is what makes you good at writing. You have to keep doing it and practicing and learning from it. So I was like, "All right, I'm going to self-publish this. And the day that I finished and like it came out was the day I found out I was pregnant with Hugo, my second son. Wow! Yeah, because I felt so sick, and I was like, "Am I nervous about my book? I don't think I am. I'm excited about it. I don't. I'm not that nervous, but I just felt so sick. And then the next day, I was like, "I'm going to take a pregnancy test, and I was pregnant.

3:09Elsie Wow! Emma How funny! I know. I didn't know. I don't remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so yeah, so I had two books that did not get traditionally published. One of them maybe could have, but for my own personal reasons, I couldn't go there. And then the second one, no one was interested in traditionally publishing it, so I self-published it myself. And then I started working on another book, not right away, because I found out I was pregnant and I also had a toddler and I had a full-time job. So I kind of had it my mind I was going to write another novel, but it didn't. It was just a hobby for me at the time, so it really wasn't something I worked on right away. And one thing that I kind of learned from having my children, so both times I had some postpartum depression, and the books that I would turn to during that time were always romance. I love romance anyway. I read it long before I had kids, but I just felt like it was the category, the genre that was like my comfort genre. That's when I figured it out. Where I was like, "Oh, this is the only thing I want to read when life feels like a little hard, a little heavy. You

3:23know, I don't have a lot of time to myself. This is what I want to read is like romance, and it was mostly contemporary romance, a little bit spicy. That's my that's my jam. So once I was ready to write again, you know. Hugo was probably almost one. I was like, okay, this is it. I'll try this. I'm going to write a contemporary romance, and my writing assignment is it's going to be spicy. I'm going to write some sex scenes and go all the way there because I was like, that honestly terrifies me. So that's my writing assignment. I'm doing that, and so that's when I wrote the Wedding Photographer, which is the book I've been queering, and I loved writing this book. It was so fun, and writing the sex scenes was terrifying, very terrifying. And you just are kind of like, is this good or is this cringe? I can't tell, and I guess I'm gonna let my friends read it and tell me. I don't know. Like it was a very fun, thrilling thing. It felt like jumping out of a plane a little bit. I thought it was a blast. I loved it so much. So by the time I finished writing it, I got it edited. I had developmental edit that was super helpful. I had quite a few

3:34friends help me. They beta read it. They gave me notes. I got a lot of great notes from friends. That was so helpful. So then I'm like, okay, I'm going to query this, and I was really really excited about it because I'm like, I was like, I want to write contemporary romance. This was so fun. I want to write more of these. So I sent it out to you know as many ages as I could, and we'll talk about how you find ages, blah blah. But I wanted to find the numbers, so I sent it out to 131 agents. That's a lot, which is a lot.

3:39Wow! For anyone who's ever queried, you can't say I didn't try. Okay, you definitely can say that I was being chill about it. I was not being chill. I was going for it. Of those 131 agents I sent it to, 13 of them requested the full manuscript, which is kind of like step two when you're querying, and 79 of them, though, and this includes many of the fulls, passed. So I got 79 rejections. So for about six months, every other day or definitely weekly, I would get an email in my box that said no, yeah, and their rejections from agents are really very nice, very polite, and very simple. Most of them do not give you feedback, like specific feedback to your book. Most of them are just kind of a form. But sometimes I would get specific feedback when I would get a rejection, and that was helpful and cool, which is nice.

3:47They took the. But yeah, I got 79 rejections, and that was really hard. I was starting to feel like, okay, I'm not sure that this is going to be traditionally published, which makes me really sad because this book is so fun and it's exactly the kind of book I want to read, kind of all the time, but especially as my comfort genre, as I mentioned. And so I just was feeling very, very down, and I was like, maybe I can't write. Maybe I am bad at writing, and like none of my friends will tell me. Maybe, maybe these sex scenes are really lame, and when people read them, they're like, wow, this girl thinks she can, you know, write this. No, this is terrible. Like I don't know. I just had all these thoughts, and I was like, man, I don't really feel like writing something new now. I'm feeling like I don't know what I should be doing, and I was just really down about it. And this was also the year that I had kind of stepped away from work. I was only working part time because I was taking care of our youngest son. He was out of daycare. So anyway, what did I do to heal myself? I did the artist way. Oh yeah, by Julia Cameron. And if you've

3:58never done it, I like to include that in the story because I just feel like for anyone who's creative or really anything, if you're feeling very like second guessing yourself, blocked, having to go through a series of rejections, maybe something like this, like you're queering a novel, or maybe you're applying for jobs, maybe you know whatever you're going through. I really think it was super helpful to me. It was just very, very healing. It's kind of set up almost like a recovery program. Julia Cameron struggled with alcoholism and became sober, so I think that was part of the idea behind it is she knows about those programs, so which is very cool. And I did think it was a great recovery program for a creative person who was feeling really down and blocked, which was how I was feeling. So anyway, so I did that. I started writing short stories. I got a new idea for a novel. I started working on other things. I just started to feel a lot more like myself, and that was super helpful. And in the meantime, I was still getting rejections until one day I got this email in my box, and I still was in a place where I was like doing the

4:09artist's way, but feeling kind of down about myself. And I got this email that was like, "I'd really like to read your manuscript. I work at HarperCollins, and we have this program that's direct to publisher. And I was kind of like, and oh, and she had sent me some links where I could look her up so that I knew it wasn't a scam. Yeah, because you know when you get random, a random, you should check into it because there are a lot of scams out there. So I was like, okay. So I clicked around and looked at some other things, and I was like, this person does seem to be a real person, and it's not a scam, and she does work there. That's exciting, but I was also in such a place where I was like probably going to send it to her and she's going to hate it or like never write me back because it sucks because everyone's saying no. But I was like, you know, it was so nice that she emailed me and asked, and I love this book and I'm going to send it. So I wrote her back and I was like, thank you because she'd heard about me from the podcast. That's how she got my email and knew who I was, and I was like, "Thank you. I would

4:20love for you to read it because I would love to publish this book. So I sent it to her, and I just believed that I would at least I would just get one more rejection at worst, and that's not that big of a deal. And she wrote back after she'd read it, and she said she loved it and she was going to share it with the team. And I still, at that point, was like, "Wow, it's really nice, but probably the team will hate it. They probably won't like it. But I was like, "Thank you so much. I hope they love it. Let me know. You know, like I was trying to act chill in my emails, but in my heart, I was like, "They're gonna hate it. They're gonna be like, 'No, this person doesn't know what they're doing.' And after the team had a look, she wrote me back. She's like, "They loved it. We'd love to talk to you. And I was like, you can't see which was video at this point, but I was just like, deer in headlights. Like, really, you want to talk to me? Okay, like, wow. So I did. I had a call with them, and they were lovely. The name of their their group is One More Chapter. Actually, a lot of the books I've been recommending lately are from there, like the

4:31Pumpkin Spice Cafe and the Lost Bookshop, those are one more chapter books. It's a division of HarperCollins UK. You can have an agent and be published with it, but you also their program is you can also submit, and so it can also be direct to publisher. And I had the lucky fortunate situation where they contacted B, which was amazing. So yeah, they they liked it. I've talked with them. We've signed a contract, and my book will come out next summer. And I'm so so excited about it. And it kind of doesn't even feel real. Like I just feel very like I don't know. I think all the rejections. It's hard to kind of like you know just like let that fall off you like a cape and be like, okay, that's over, because it just kind of sticks with you a little bit. So it's it does. I do have that feeling where I almost have to be like, I don't know. But I'm like, no, I do know. We've signed a contract. I do know my book is going to come out next summer.

4:40It's going to be traditionally published, and a lot of people get to read it if they want to. And I could not be more. Elsie Thrilled about it. Yeah, I'm so happy for you. I'm like it's it's the perfect ending because yeah, there was a time when she was like, really like querying can really wear you out, and it has. I queried in 2025 and 2026, and 2026 is is noticeably more challenging, and I think that like the AI, a lot of people will write that in their rejections. Even I got one yesterday. I was like, "Sorry, it's been nine months, but all the AI people sending me all their bullsh*t, you know what I mean? Oh God, whatever. But yeah, anyway, it is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, and so I hope people know that when you're telling this story. But like, this is not some like breezy little process. This it is normal for it to take several tries, and it is normal to fail. It is very very challenging.

4:51Emma I actually have. So we'll talk more about the wedding photographer after this. I promise I'll start with stop with all these side stories. But I'm just trying to be encouraging. I think hearing all of them is hopefully helpful. I don't know. Elsie You know, it's amazing. Emma So I did get this book deal. We're going to talk about that. So part of it is they mainly focus on commercial adult fiction, so that might be romance or thrillers or all sorts of different things. They do historical, lots of different genres. They don't do middle grade or children's books. And in the meantime, of while I was healing myself with Artist Way and I was writing a bunch of different things, short stories, other ideas, whatever. I also worked on this series. It's three children's picture books that I'd really love to get published, and the first one is called Mama Chair. I talked about it in a previous episode a little bit, but basic. It's a little boy who discovers that his mom has a magic trick she can do. She can turn into a chair, and this is helpful to him as he often like sits and finds comfort in his mama chair during

5:06challenging moments, like when he goes down the big slide for the first time, when he goes to the doctor and he's not sure what's going to happen, and by the end of the story, the little boy discovers that he's starting to grow up and he doesn't always need his mom a chair anymore, but the magic never goes away. So anyway, I've been querying that as an author only because I am not an author illustrator, and I have sent it to 40 agents, and so far I have 11 rejections. So we'll see, but it's just one of those things. And I mentioned that just to be like, oh, I got a book deal, and I have a book coming out. I'm so excited about it, and I'm still querying something else, and still getting rejections. And I think like it just might be part of being an artist is like you just have to keep going and find a way to take care of yourself during it, which is hard, which is why I recommend Artist Way. Yeah, and hopefully other things that I'll discover and tell you about. But yeah,.

5:16Elsie Okay, I'm going to give you a little bit of an interview. So, can you tell a little bit about like what goes into a query package? Like for people who they want to write a novel they've never done this process like what were the what were sort of like a few things you learned that you would tell a friend? Emma Yeah, I took Query Book Camp by Lauren K, and I thought it was immensely helpful. I did not take it when I queried for Cloud Nine or Handmade Murder, but I did for the wedding photographer, and although as I mentioned, I got lots of rejections. That's part of it, though, is I did get a lot of responses, which I think shows like it was getting through to people. And yes, I didn't end up connecting with many of them, but they were reading it and they were responding to it. So I still would point out that to me means that that query letter was the best of all the ones I've sent. Definitely, yeah. And I think it's in large part because of Query Bootcamp. So I highly recommend that class. And it can be good just to learn and to grow in anything you're doing. You know, a lot of times we think of writing as just writing

5:29great sentences or great characters, but if you want to be traditionally published, you're gonna need to know how to write a great query letter. So educating yourself on that can be helpful too. So anyway, so in the query letter, there's something called a hook, and it's just a very short one paragraph. What your book is. Don't give away the ending though. You will also need to write a synopsis, which is very boring. You should just Google it. I can't even explain it. It's the most boring thing I've ever written in my life. So I can explain it. You have to put in about 500 words or like two pages every major plot point of your book, and that's all that it is, including spoilers. It's kind of like a long outline, yeah, but like kind of worse in a way because it's so boring.

5:37Elsie Some agents don't request it, but for the ones that do, it's so that they can kind of like look ahead and see where the book's going if they want a cheat sheet. Emma I think I only got requested like a synopsis maybe twice ever, but I also. Writing in a genre that doesn't really have big spoiler endings, so if you are writing in a genre with a big spoiler ending, you're probably going to need this more than I did. So anyway, in your query letter, you'll have your hook, which just is quick paragraph about your book, and make it really, really, really exciting, as exciting as you possibly can, and then you should do some comparable titles, so that would be imagine someone's never read your book, right? You want to give them a sense of both what the book is about and what it's like, what the tone might feel like, where it would fit on the bookshelf. You know, like if your book wasn't a bookstore, where would they put it on the shelf so that readers would see it adjacent to other things that they might like, and then I also think comparable titles is a way of describing your ideal reader. So you

5:50know, readers who love these books are going to love my book, kind of thing. So, and usually people do too, and they say not to do anything super old. So like, try to pick something within the last five years. There's also kind of this weird dosey do you have to do where you don't necessarily want to pick like the breakout biggest book of all time because that can make you look a little silly, but also if that's a perfect comparable title for your book, I kind of think you should pick that just because it will describe your book the best. I don't know. To me, I kind of feel like it's obvious that you're not comparing yourself to those successful authors because it's you're clearly a debut author just trying to get an agent. So I kind of think pick whatever truly describes your book the best because I think that's the most helpful to an agent. So you'll do that, and then you'll do one or two paragraphs. Really, do try to keep it short and concise about yourself. So, what else have you written? Do you have any degrees in writing? What have you been doing as a job? Tell me something interesting about you. I also think if you have any

6:01kind of platform that you would be using for marketing, you can put that in there as well. In my experience, personally, I don't think agents really care. I've never had an agent act as like a nonfiction agent. Yes, fiction agents. I haven't had one show interest in my platform yet, but I think that if you have one, you should talk about it. So because it's something you've built, and I think it shows that you're an ambitious person. So, and then last thing is, and this should be short, but I think it's nice to let agents know what your writing goals are, like what your intentions are. Do you want to? So, if you're submitting, you know, a contemporary romance like I was, do you want to write a ton of contemporary romances? Do you view that as the career you want to have, or is this kind of like a for fun project? Do you have other genres you want to write in? You know, like I think it can be good to give a sense of that because it matters. Like if they're going to sign you and work with you, that's going to make a big difference to them. And it doesn't mean they wouldn't work with you if you're not planning to make it

6:12your whole career. But I just think it's a good thing to know. So, so yeah. So put that in there too if you can. Do you have anything else you would add for querying letters? Elsie I think that the most important thing is to get your query letter looked at by someone who works in publishing, not by a friend, not by like because it is its own specific type of document that follows a specific pattern, so I found it helpful to just pay someone who was a publishing professional to look at my query letters and you know get their sign off. And I felt like that was like the main the main thing that I would make sure to do if I were doing it again.

6:20Emma Yeah, and you may already know someone, but if you know no one at all, I think a great resource is Readsy. It's a website, and you can hire people. I did a developmental edit fairly recently, so they weren't looking at my query letter, but with someone who's a working agent. So you can find, you know, very high quality, awesome professionals on that site. I'm sure there are many other options. That's just one that I know about, and I know is very good. So, Read C is great. I think that's about it.

6:26Elsie Do you have any tips for navigating rejections, like kind of just getting through? Emma Not really. I mean, my main tip is if you're feeling really low, artist way. I think if you're feeling really sad for any reason, you should talk to your friends and family about it, and also your therapist. If you're feeling really low because you're getting a lot of rejections, you don't need to think that's silly or like that's not important enough to talk to my therapist about. It's like no, it is. Oh, it's definitely important enough to talk to the student. You should talk about it to your friends, to your partner. If you go to therapy to your therapist because it's really normal to feel like, oh, maybe I suck at this, or maybe I shouldn't even be trying at this dream I have. Like those are bad feelings. Talk about them, and yeah, feeling like a healing for me. Artist way was great. I think there are other things though. You can also just go check out that book. And you'll get a sense of the type of things that can be helpful. You can find a lot of resources out there. That's like, are you a creative or an artist or a writer who's feeling down?

6:39Here's a pep talk. What you're needing is a pep talk. So find them. They are helpful. Pep talks work. And some days you don't want to hear one. You just want to feel sad, and that's okay too. That's fine. Elsie Ok, last question. So after you got your book deal, you signed your contract. How did you celebrate? Emma So I told you guys that over the summer I took three months off from drinking, right? Which I accomplished. But I had come up with this thing in part because I was beta reading my friend Katie Day's book, which I'm so excited to come out, and we'll be talking about it when it does. And it's kind of about goals. One thing she talks about in the book is she's like, it's okay to have weird rules. That's what she calls it, weird rules. And so it's kind of like exceptions to things, so that you know you're not cheating on a goal, but you're like, I do have this one weird rule. And so at the beginning of the summer, before I ever started my three months of sobriety, I was like the one weird rule I have is there is this very special wine that Elsie had bought me. It's in my novel. It's a real wine. It's a Chardonnay. It

6:52plays into the plot quite a bit, and I had researched it, but I'd actually never drank it. It's not a crazy expensive bottle. Elsie I had to go to two places to find this wine, it's a real wine. It is kind of cool. I thought it was kind of also like a little bit pricey for a Chardonnay, so I have to try it someday. It makes sense. Emma Yeah, it's like 50 to $60, something like that. So it's more than I normally spend on just a random bottle of Chardonnay. Like I'm more of $20 price point kind of gal. Anyway, so Elsie had bought me this quite a while ago, like before I even started queering, and I was like, "I'm going to open this bottle when I get a book deal, is what I'd originally thought. But then I also was kind of like, "Oh, maybe just when I get an agent, we'll see. So before I ever started the three months of sobriety, I told myself my one weird rule was if I get a book deal, I will open that bottle of wine and celebrate by drinking it, and so I did get a book deal, and so I did technically not have three months of full sobriety because I did open that bottle of wine that Elsie got me and shared it with my partner, and we also had some friends over that night,

7:06and I made this really fancy cheese board, yeah, and we just sat around and talked. I told them about my book deal, and that's why we-I had opened the wine, and we actually had this funny moment where Trey and I were both like, "Where's the wine opener? Because it had been so long since we'd opened wine at our house, so we were like looking at. I was like, "Do we not even have a wine opener? Found it though; it was in a weird spot. Found it, and so yeah, that's what I did to celebrate. Was open that special bottle of wine you'd given me, and it had been sitting in my fridge, and every time I saw it, it almost kind of gave me a little like, "Someday I'll open you! Someday I'll open you! And it finally came, and it was so exciting, and it was a great wine. It was an excellent Chardonnay. So there you go, magical. I love it.

7:15Elsie Well, congratulations! We are all cheering you on, and next summer we'll be sure to give updates, like as you know it goes through. When pre-order is available, she is going to have an audio book. All of our dreams are coming true. I can't wait for everyone to read it. The sex scenes. She was not being modest. The sex scenes are creative. They are creative. Emma I went for it. It was the writing assignment for the book. I went for it. Yeah, I was going for an A in that class.

7:23Elsie And our grandmother read it, who's 92. Emma And my mom, Elsie And she was like, "Don't worry, I have, I've had children, I've had sex before. And then she gave the book back, and she was like, "That was crazy." Emma She liked it, and my mom read it too, and my mom really liked it too. And I was like, "What did you think of the sex scenes, Mom? And she was like, "Thumbs up."Just very supportive and sweet. It was fun, super fun. Elsie Love, love. So yeah, it will be an exciting year in 2027. Yes. Okay, we have a hot take from Rebecca.

7:36Rebecca says potlucks are the worst, especially at work or school. There's always way too much food. The temperature of the food is always gross. The balance of savory and sweet items is never right, so your meal may consist of overly sweet cookies that Paul bought at the store, and a side of something you put on your plate just to be polite to the person who brought it? Because they were standing next to you. Transporting the huge amount of food is always sketchy in the car, and I would rather just pack my own food. The only time I think potlucks are okay is for the holidays, like Thanksgiving. But for work or school, they are a hard pass, and I don't think anyone enjoys them. Okay, I would say I lightly agree, but I don't have school or work. I this does not come into play. I do not, and I don't attend church. So there's no part of my life where I have an unwanted potluck. Right. The only potlucks we have are our family, a family dinner, which I like. A potluck for that, and also our book club Christmas party, which I like and is a highlight. It's very fun.

7:47Emma I bring my Oreo balls. Elsie Yeah. Oh yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. Everyone always brings like all the best stuff. So I honestly can't have a strong opinion because it's been so long since I even had like an unpleasant potluck experience. What about you? Yeah, I think I basically. Emma Agree, because I would mainly point out. So Rebecca's kind of talking about work or school. I feel like if you are a little bit compelled to go somewhere, like work, you know, you're going there to make a living, presumably. I hope you also love your job, but at the end of the day, this is how you pay your bills. It's your work, right? I don't feel like that's the time to make people bring a hot dish. Like, right? It's like they're already there to work. I think that's the place to like. If you're wanting to do an occasion, maybe like cater it. Bosses who are listening, maybe go ahead and like spring for some kind of catering type thing, I think that's better. I think it's a better fit. I also do agree that I think temperature matters on food, and if it's a situation where you have to show up somewhere a little bit early, or like you almost have to

8:02like drop off the food at a certain time so that it's the right temperature, and then leave and come back or something. Then it almost becomes this like whole thing. So, for example, my daycare, which I love, by the way, they used to for Teacher Appreciation Week. They would do this like potluck day, and they've kind of phased that out. And now it's more of a you can buy a gift card to some kind of restaurant, and they'll kind of put them all together, or you can you can cater a whole meal from a restaurant or something like that. And I really liked that more because it felt like the potluck. I was like, well, I have to if I'm going to do something for breakfast, let's say, I've got to make it in the morning while I don't have childcare yet, so my kids are kind of you know around, and then I've got to get it to the daycare at the right time. So it's like like if it was eggs, you need to eat eggs hot. You're not going to eat eggs cold, like some kind of breakfast. Yeah. So it's like it's got to arrive at the right time. And now you know it just was like, do I wake up at five a.m. to accomplish this?

8:13Elsie This is stressing me out. Emma Yeah, it's just it just was like the timing didn't really work, and if I wanted to do lunch, I almost spent have to spend like half my workday, which is why I have the childcare in the first place, doing the lunch thing. And I love to go hard for Teacher Appreciation Week, by the way, because they have amazing teachers there that our kids love, and it means a lot to me. But it was just kind of clunky. A potluck was like to me not the best way because I was like, isn't even going to arrive at the right temperature, and I feel like I can like do little gift baskets, and like now they do more things where it's like the teachers fill out all their favorite, like their favorite candy and their favorite, you know, things like that. So you can kind of put together a little gift from the child and that kind of thing. Anyway, I'm with Rebecca. I think that if it's not a meal like oh the family's coming together for a meal so like when you arrive basically once everyone's here we're gonna eat so all the dishes are gonna be you know the right temperature if that's not the scenario then I'm like I don't really like it I feel like things are gonna get weird because I

8:27feel like we did used to attend church when we were growing up where they would do potlucks and how it would be accomplished was there always, usually older ladies who were in the kitchen because the church had a kitchen, and they were keeping things warm during the service, and then they would set everything out as service got out, and everyone would go to the potluck. And I'm like, well, that makes sense, but then it's like people were missing, and that's fine. Churches, you know, do whatever you want. I don't care, but it's like that makes sense. But how are you going to accomplish that at work or school? It's not going to work. It's not going to be the right. It's gnarly. Okay, I think we're we I think we're agreeing with we're with Rebecca. Don't do it. Don't do it. School and work. Just get catering.

8:35Elsie I love catering. Emma Or dessert only potlucks. Then it's like everyone bring your favorite cookie. I'm like that might work. Elsie That's different. Yeah, a cookie party is not under scrutiny, right? Emma Yeah, no, that's that's yeah. There's a way to do something if you're like I want to do some camaraderie. I'm like I think there's a way to do it, but don't do this. Don't do like a meal potluck. Okay. Now it's time for a joke or a fact or a meditation with Nova.

8:45Elsie Hey Nova, what do you have for us this week? Nova I have another meditation, and it's Twilight theme because that is one of my number one favorite movies. Elsie Okay, okay, me too. Okay, I'm closing my eyes. Nova First, the deep breaths. right. So you come home after you do your morning chores and walk around and do all that. You come home. And you sit down as your family is discussing something, and you now figure out that your family will be doing a movie marathon, and you are going to get invite all your friends, and you find out it's a twilight movie night. So you go buy all the snacks, and you go invite all your friends and your family. They come over, and you tell them about the Twilight movie, and they decide that they really, really want to see it. And then the movie's over. Your parents have a surprise for you. They had invited some people from the movie that you could meet. You go and you get to shake hands with the people, and you tell them how big of a fan you are. And then, when the party's over, and you are snuggling up in bed, you think about what was the best part of your day, and you decide you

9:02couldn't pick any best part because the whole day was perfect. As you snuggle up in your bed, you fall asleep and you think of twilight dreams until the morning. Now let's open our eyes. Elsie Ooh, I feel like I need a big stretch. Nova Stretch, and I would like you to do something for me. I would like you to text my mommy. Elsie Okay. Nova And say what's your favorite Twilight movie and what's your favorite part. Elsie Okay, thank you so much, Nova.

9:14Nova Bye. Elsie Have a good week. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with an episode about our cozy fall dream day.