I Don't Have Enough Work

0:03Speaker 1:My colleagues, We'll stop commenting on everything I get my assist at people and meeting. Why does my coworker keep taking credit for all my ideas? Have any wisdom for me? Hi? I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager podcast, where I answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers perfume to what to do if you drink too much at the company party. Let's get started. If you are frequently overloaded with work, it might sound nice to have too little to do, but in reality, regularly not having enough work to do can be incredibly boring, and it can make work really drag on. Today's guest finds herself chronically underworked. Hi, and welcome to the show. Thanks for having me so. You sent me a letter saying that you've never really had a job that didn't have significant downtime long stretches where you had nothing to do. I'm going to summarize my understanding from your letter and then will get into it. You've been in your current job for a year, You've got great performance reviews, you make yourself available for new work, and you volunteered to take

1:08Speaker 1:on work from stressed colleagues, but sometimes there just isn't more work to do, and your workload is dependent on things outside of your control. To fill the time, You've tried things like reading online publications in your field, but that only takes up so much time, and you feel like you might spend too much time on your phone or online, and you're wondering if you should feel guilty about that and what you should be doing with your time. Am I getting all that right? Yeah? That's pretty much the whole situation for me. One thing that I thought was really interesting is that you mentioned that this has happened in every job that you've ever had, and that you've tried talking to your boss is about it. One boss said they didn't care and said that you could do whatever you wanted with the extra time, and then, without warning, you got fired by a higher up for spending too much time online, which I can imagine would really freak you out about how to handle this now. Yeah, I'm pretty paranoid now, and I think for good reason. Um, that was a weird situation. I was working for a startup they did not have very good HR practices, but um,

2:11Speaker 1:you know that's kind of made me extra nervous when I don't have anything to do, because I really want to make sure that I'm, you know, doing everything that I should be doing, and that what I'm doing with the extra time I have isn't something that's going to get me into trouble. Absolutely, So, how much downtime are we talking about and how frequently? It's really hard to say. So my work is on a two week cycle, so um, I kind of and we're working quite a bit ahead of time. So there will be some two week cycles where I don't have any pressing projects, so I'm only doing things that are not the primary function of my job.

2:52Speaker 1:And then there will be two week cycles where I'll have like a really busy um uh period and so I'll have of no downtime whatsoever, and I feel like, I like, I don't have any time to hardly breathe or think. But for the most part, um, I would say probably at least a couple hours a day, maybe more. Okay, that is a lot. I think it's probably significant that you mentioned that it's happened in every job you've ever had, because this is definitely a thing that happens and I actually get a bunch of letters from people who are just really bored at work and wondering like what do I do with all of this time? But you don't normally see it so consistently over and over through the course of someone's career. And so that makes me think that it's either something about the field that you're in or the sorts of jobs, or that you work much faster than most people you're around, And I wonder, do you have any sense of which it might be. Um, I don't think it's necessarily the field, because, um so, I have a master's degree in a different field than what I work in now, So over the past four years, I've been kind of migrating my career from the field

4:03Speaker 1:that I have my degree in into a new field. So I've actually kind of spanned a couple of different types of careers in that time. UM I think I think I work fast. I I feel very confident that I work faster than most of my colleagues, And sometimes I worry is that because they're doing a much more thorough job than I'm doing or is it just, you know, something about the way that I work that I finished things quicker for you know, unknown reasons to me based on my colleagues. Right, So either you're like super fast and you're just that's great, that's like your superpower, or maybe they're taking a more complicated or thorough approach, So that would be unnerving if you're not sure which it is.

4:46Speaker 1:Do you have coworkers who are in the same kind of role as you and who have the same projects. Yeah, So I'm on a team of I think eight, and there are three tiers of us, and I'm the lowest here and I'm the more entry level position, and then there's like a middle and like a top tier. Um, so obviously my co workers. So I work in a government function and I have some colleagues we've been there for almost twenty years, and so obviously they get in this in similar roles, so they get much more complicated projects than I get. But even when looking at my colleagues on the kind of the same the same level and like the one step above, I still see that, you know, we have more similar types of projects and number of projects, but I am still uh finding myself with more time on my hands than I think that they do. What is your relationship with your boss? Like, do you have pretty good rapport. Yeah, I have a really good relationship with my boss, which is the best thing about this job compared to previous jobs I've had.

5:51Speaker 1:And um, I really like working for him. I feel like I can be frank with him. He's um, maybe a little less willing to give direction then I might like, But in general, he's been super uh happy with my work, and I think he was a little bit skeptical about hiring me just because I don't have a background in the field, and I know that he's been really pleased with how I've done over the past year. So I am going to recommend that you talk to him and actually stepping back a little bit and just going kind of big picture and advice in general for work stuff.

6:27Speaker 1:I think when you have good rapport with your boss and you have cash almost any kind of big picture work question like this, it's good to start with your boss and just kind of lay it out and so how to apply that in your case, I would say I might sit down and say, I'm finding myself with a lot of downtime. Obviously, our work goes through cycles. I'll have two weeks where I'm really busy, but then I'll have two weeks where I have a ton of downtime, and I want to make sure, first of all, that there's not something I'm missing that you're not looking for me to be spending more time on projects before I turn them in, or that you know, maybe other people are doing a more thorough job. But I want to make sure there's not something like that that I'm missing, but absent something like that, I also just want to talk to you about the best ways to use that time.

7:08Speaker 1:And who knows what might come of that. I mean, that might lead to you getting more responsibilities, it might lead to being told, you know what, this work is like very ebb and flow, and it's totally normal. And we know that you're gonna have periods where you're really busy, so we're completely fine with you working at a very leisurely pace during the times when, um, when you do have a lot of downtime. But I could go in all kinds of different directions, but I think it would be a really interesting conversation to have if you haven't done it already. Yeah, and I think some of that I haven't done, but some of it I have done, but not it's only been a short period of time that I've been doing it. So I have always told my boss that I have time on my hands, which in some cases has actually worked it really well, and that I have had colleagues transfer projects to me, and um, often those are pretty interesting projects that I get to work on and I fully take those over from from the colleague. And I know my boss has kind of started to see me as a go to person for doing kind of extracurricular projects, which has hasn't necessarily led

8:12Speaker 1:to a lot of firm work, but it has led to me being the representative from our department on a lot of different kind of UH citywide initiatives, which has been really interesting. But I haven't done I haven't said, you know, what should I be doing with my downtime. That's not a conversation we've had yet. So you might do that or a version of that. And I will also say, keep in mind, there's a difference between just saying, hey, I just want to let you know I have extra time in my hands if there's anything that you want me to do, which is the way that a lot of people have this conversation, versus the way I think you should have the conversation, which is more I really want to make sure that I'm staying busy. I'm finding myself with a lot of downtime. I want to find out from you how you would like to see me spending that, and then also potentially part two of that, which might be and we'll talk about this a little bit more in a minute, but part two might be more of it's really important to me to stay busy.

9:07Speaker 1:Can we talk about ways that we might be able to make that happen. So the first way is sort of like, hey, f y, I just letting you know in case there's something you would like to give me, And the second way is more focused on like what you want to get out of your job in your career, and it might make sense to go a little bit more in that direction. Sure, that makes sense. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk about this some more. I want to talk in more detail about ways that you might approach your boss about it.

9:42Speaker 1:I also want to say I think there are a bunch of smaller things that you can do to fill the time, but I don't think any of them will really solve the problem enough to make things feel substantially different in the long term. As you said, you know, you can only spend so much time reading publications in your field. Um, you know, you do networky things like you could find online groups related to the type of work that you do and you can answer questions there and lend your expertise to help solve other people's problems.

10:09Speaker 1:But again, that's only going to take up so much time. Another option, you could embark on some sort of major learning initiative, pinpointing some skill that you'd like to learn and spending a chunk of time learning it, but at some point you'll learn it and then you'll be back in the same position if this were the only job where this had come up for me. For you, those are the sorts of things I'd recommend, But because it keeps happening and I don't think those sorts of projects are going to be enough to fill an entire careers worth of downtime. And it's also just not great for your quality of life to feel like you're always scrambling and searching around for the next thing to occupy you.

10:48Speaker 1:At some point, it's really going to start feeling like you're just doing those things to kill time, because that is kind of the truth of it, and no one wants to feel like they're just killing time month after month, so given at rather than taking that kind of piecemeal approach. There's a few different things that I would do here. The first one is, like we're talking about, talk to your boss about the situation. If you can, it might be helpful to go to him with a few proposals of ways that you could fill up your role. I know you work for government, which it makes this a little bit harder to do, but I wonder if there are potentially whole new responsibilities that you could take on that would be, you know, not just a project that will keep you busy for a couple of weeks, but an ongoing thing that will fill that time more permanently.

11:37Speaker 1:Um Or if there's someone on your team who's overworked who would welcome getting a particular ongoing responsibility off their plate, maybe you could propose taking that on. And I'd also spend some time thinking about what's not getting done in your office right now, or not getting done consistently or getting done well, and thinking about whether there's something that you could propose spending your time on that would help fill that need. It doesn't necessarily have to be like a big, new, major initiative. It could be something in the background, like these aren't going to be great examples, But it could be something like we don't have up to date documentation on any of our processes, so let me put that together, or um, I'd like to create better training materials for new staff. I would just say think creatively about it, like if you've ever found yourself thinking I wish we had X, or it would be great if we did. Why there might be something in there that you could propose work for yourself around. And you also mentioned that there's these tears of seniority on your team. So one option, I mean, if this isn't

12:43Speaker 1:I don't know how your office works, and maybe this would be totally toned off and wildly premature, but I mean, one option is to think about whether to push for a promotion to a higher tier so that you are taking on more complicated work. It might be that the fact that you are finishing the work at your level so quickly is a reflection of the fact that you might be ready for higher level work. Sure, yeah, and our our work is a little different with being a government, but so in our office, I do the same exact type of work because people in a higher tier than me, but they've typically been there for longer, so they don't hire from those rules externally. So I'm pretty much on a track to, you know, when someone leaves, move up, but that has kind of no firm timeline on it um and I don't think it would affect my workload at all. Besides the fact that just being there longer is I think one of the key things that that leads to more complicated projects. That makes sense. I wouldn't decide for your boss that that's not a feasible solution, because your boss is going to have a different perspective.

13:56Speaker 1:And maybe your boss will completely agree with that and say, yeah, it's just you know, put in the top time and when someone leaves will have one of those more senior slots open up. It's possible that your boss will look at what you're doing and the speed and the skill that you're doing it with and think it actually does make sense to maybe promote you on a faster track than what's normally done on your team. Maybe not, obviously, we don't know, but but I think it's worth talking about.

14:19Speaker 1:And if it feels kind of tone deaf to propose it. I think you could propose it without using without being that explicit. You could say something like, um, you know, I'd really like to take on more challenging projects like X or Y, and I know that I have the time to do it. Is that something that you would be open to? And if the answer is no or not right now, you could say, you know, is that something that you think is a possibility in the near future.

14:45Speaker 1:What do you think that timeline might look at like? And if you get more of a brush off, then at least that's good data for you to have. Then you know, you can factor that into your thinking about what's going on in your situation here. Yeah, I think those are all really good suggestions. And and when I took this role, it was you know this the role that I'm in now is a lot more of a narrow focus and the role that I came from, which is also within the same government entity. And so my my boss and I had some really good conversations around that time when I was transitioning about you know, what types of work I could do that would allow me to have a little bit broader impact. But that's those are things that I kind of put on the back burner as I was learning this role. And also are things that I would really require some uh intense uh thought and uh coordination with other departments and other people I know, uh in our organization. And so I wonder if maybe maybe that's kind of the tack I should take, is trying to figure out if there are these kind of innovative projects that I could work on that are

15:54Speaker 1:not something that my boss would be driving, but more something that I would be driving. And I think that kind of thing is easier for a manager to say yes too, because if you would be the one driving it and doing a lot of the heavy thinking, that is an easier yes. Then if it's like another thing that gets added to his plate to figure out, sure, let's pass here for a quick break and then we'll come right back. Well, let me ask you this. I know you said this keeps happening to you. Has it always been government jobs? No? Because you were at a startup at one point, So it's been like a range of sectors, right, Yes, a wide range of sector. As I worked in health care, I worked for at a university, I worked for a startup, and I'm in government. I think you might just be really fast, you know, if you had always been in the same field or the same sector. I was going to say, you know, if it's always going to be like this, if it's something about your field, do you like your work enough that you're going to be able to be reasonably happy knowing that this is likely to be the pace for a long time, or does it bother you enough that it

17:05Speaker 1:would be worth thinking about doing something very different or in a very different type of workplace. But it doesn't sound like that's the situation at all. It doesn't sound like this is being driven by the type of job or the type of field. It sounds like you're fast, and this is like being fast, right. And I will say that this job is the best of all the jobs I've had in terms of keeping me busy. And I think part of that is because we have such clear deadlines and clearer workloads, so I always know that my projects are are done and they're completed, and I know exactly what's on my plate. And that's really helpful to me, especially when I have this downtime, is just to be able to know that there's you know, there's not something I'm missing, There's there aren't some sort of weird amorphous projects I'm supposed to be working on that don't have deadlines. It's like it's it's very clear, and for me that's been really helpful. But there still is this extra time, and I want to be thoughtful about how I'm used in it given that, I do think that this conversation with your boss where you kind of

18:05Speaker 1:lay it out for him is the best way to go. So it's not just hey, I've got time in my hands if you need me, but it's more of this is something that I want to change about my job. Can we talk about whether it's possible to do that? And if that's not possible right now, can we talk about how I should be spending that time? And I think too, we should talk about the fear piece of this, because anyone in your shoes, having had the experience you had where you were told that it was fine to do whatever you wanted with that downtime and then being penalized for it would be really uncomfortable I think finding themselves in a situation in the future that looked very similar to how that one started out. So I think you could be pretty candid with your boss and say, um, you know my nightmare. You don't have to get into what happened at the previous job if you don't want to, but you could say, you know, my nightmare in this situation is is thinking that it's okay for me to kind of relax when I do have this periods of downtime and think that it's okay, and then discovered down the road that it wasn't okay and that it's changing

19:07Speaker 1:the way that I'm perceived or causing other sorts of problems, and so I really want to make sure that I'm not going down that path. And I think if you lay it out for him, you will probably hear something that's very helpful in response. Yeah, I think that's true. And we had a recent conversation where I was a little bit more explicit about I'm available for other types of projects. I want to take on more work, and he wasn't necessarily planning on doing like a year review, but started to take some notes and talk about, you know, okay, we can have this conversation and let me think about what options are available. Oh, that's great. Whenever boss starts taking notes in that kind of context, that's a very good sign. Um, that's really good. So it sounds like this the conversation has already kind of started and it's just a matter of keeping it going. Yeah. Good. Is there at anything else about this that would be helpful to talk about or anything that is still making you feel uneasy? Well? I did have an interesting conversation with him on Friday when, um, you know, after you and my colleagues had left early. I think they had previously,

20:13Speaker 1:you know, arranged that with him, and I went to his office and I said, hey, I was thinking about leaving early. It was like two pm on Friday, And I said, do you have any concerns with that? And he said, as long as your work is you know, as long as you've completed your your workload and you have that under control, you're free to do whatever you want. And so I left and and that was great, and I came home and I had a early afternoon at home. I guess I'm just wondering, you know, do you have any advice for kind of navigating that when I have both a workload that is, you know, not feeling all my time and a boss who's really flexible about you know, schedules and things. I mean, how do you kind of navigate both wanting more work to do, wanting to fill that time, and also, you know, uh, wanting to come home and start on some yard projects early. Yeah, it's smart to think about it and not just take him at his word. But every time you're done with your work, you it's fine to just leave, because it sounds like that could result in you leaving like two hours early every day. Um. I would pay attention to what other

21:20Speaker 1:people around you are doing and try to calibrate what you're doing pretty closely to what the norm seems to be. That said, I wouldn't give the same weight to each to what each person is doing. I would pay particular attention to what the people in good standing and your team are doing, because there might be some people who are like pulling the average way down, who are are leaving early a lot who but who maybe aren't super well thought of. So I would calibrate according to what other people in good standings seem to do. And that doesn't mean that you have to like peg it exactly to the exact number of hours or anything like that, but but I would be basically in that ballpark. I think too. If you're ever feeling unsure. You can also lay that up for your boss too. You can say, you know, hey, in the last two months, I've taken off early a few times when my workload allowed it.

22:13Speaker 1:To be totally honest with you, I feel weird about doing it, and I know that you're really flexible and really great about this stuff, but I also want to make sure that you never feel uneasy about what I'm doing or think that I'm taking advantage. So I just want to check in with you. And any manager is going to appreciate that, especially one who you already have good rapport with. Yeah, okay, Yeah, that's good. I think I like all this advice of just kind of laying it out there and having these more frank conversations, and I feel good about that happen in the context that I already started a little bit of this conversation that was received really well, and so I think I can.

22:48Speaker 1:I think I can have those other conversations too. The fact that you have a good relationship with your boss and that he sounds pretty open and pretty reasonable makes this so much easier. So if that weren't the case, this will be a whole different, much more complicating conversations. So yeah, I think you can just sort of lay it out for him, and I think you can. It's totally fine to use him as a check on you're thinking and and to give you peace of mind if you ever are feeling like, oh, I don't know if if the way that I'm navigating this is okay, I think you can just ask and you will probably get peace of mind from that. Great. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I hope this is helpful.

23:27Speaker 1:This is super helpful. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to the Ask a Manager Podcast. If you'd like to come on the show to talk through your own question, email it to podcast at Asking Manager dot org, or you can leave a recording of your question by calling eight five five six work. That's eight five five two six nine seven five. You can get more ask a Manager at ask a Manager dot org or in my book Ask a Manager How to Navigate clueless colleagues, lunch stealing bosses, and the rest of your life at work. They Ask a Manager Show is a partnership with How Stuff Works and is produced by Paul Deckett.

23:59Speaker 1:If you liked what you heard, please take a minute to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Play. I'm Alison Green and i'll be back next week with another one of your questions. M