The Nürburgring

0:00Speaker 1:Welcome to Car Stuff, a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. Hi, and Welcome to Car Stuff. I'm your host Scott Benjamin, and I am Kurt Garren. You know, I'm super excited about this show this week because we've got a topic that's got a lot of meat to it and something that I think that is gonna be just right for conversation between the two of us, because we both have an interest in this sort of thing anyway, Um, you know, a little bit of track driving, a little bit of uh, a little thrill seeking. I guess maybe we're both kind of not adrenaline junkies, but we both like to uh, kind of test the limits of our vehicles kind of you know, just get out there and have a little bit of fun in them. And I think this is something that a lot of people can relate to. Maybe not a lot of people have done this in the past, of course, I think we're gonna find very few of our listeners have actually done this.

0:44Speaker 1:But there are a couple of examples that that I'll tell you about in just a moment. So let's just jump right into it and I'll tell our listeners what we're gonna be talking about today, And it was kind of a question that I had, and it's something that I know I've voiced on my other show on car stuff in the past, and and I think I've maybe answered a little bit and and we've even discussed this track, and I'll get to all of this, you understand it just a moment. But my question is about the nerber Ring, and the nerber Ring has, in the past, i don't know, decade or maybe even twelve fifteen years, seem to be the place that manufacturers have taken their automobiles to test the limits, to see how fast they can lap the Nerburgring.

1:25Speaker 1:And there's a specific part of the nerber Ring that they do this in. There's it's it's a it's a certain loop that they tested on. We'll talk about what it is. Is it's kind of like a level playing field for all manufacturers to be able to go and say, we can run this track at this speed in this amount of time in this car, and that's why our car is the best. And if you think you can top it, go do it. Yeah. And it offers a bunch of different types of conditions as well through the surface of the course and the terrain weather and all sorts of other obstacles that may get interesting and kind of like a something something to brag about. Oh absolutely, we'll we'll talk about all of this because there's some really there's believe it or not. Even the weather is a fascinating topic on this track, and so as the like the surface material because it changes over over time, over distance rather And maybe one of the coolest things about this is that you can go and drive on this track if you just have a few dollars in your pocket. It doesn't really cost that much money. It's officially a toll road. And I know I'm probably not

2:28Speaker 1:giving anything away by saying that right now. And man, there's some fascinating things that go along with this whole thing. Now, now here's a little bit of background, and I want to temper this with this thought. There's a car stuff episode on the Nurburgring, and we went through a lot of history. We went through the details of how they've modified the track, and you know, like you know, the different curves and all that stuff and and the barriers, and you're just a lot of information about the track itself.

2:54Speaker 1:So there's a ton of history, there's a ton of material there about Grand Prixs or you know about Grand Prix racing about um, you know, the switchover to Formula one and all of that. It's all there. So I don't want to I don't want to double up on too much of that. And I know that's tough not to step on that. So we're gonna We're gonna have a little bit of overlap, but not a whole lot. Now, there's a few things that I do I do feel like we need to repeat. This is just because there's some really interesting things about this track that I think are important. And one number one, probably the most important thing that we need to know about this track is that it's insanely dangerous. Insanely dangerous. I mean, it really is.

3:31Speaker 1:And it was designed a long long time ago. I think the track was built in what and it's like it's a huge, huge track. It's it's what UM well, in its current uh form, I think that the overall lap, if you uh, the nord Schlift or nord Schleef that we're gonna talk about, which is the North Loop UM is about fourteen It's over fourteen miles, right, okay, so over a hundred yeah, oh yeah, that's right. That's that's another important point. This is a this is of course that goes through the mountains. Yeah, i'd I'd like to see what the elevation changes. I think the course of a lot. I think that I think that I read somewhere that the elevation change is over a thousand feet between the start and finish of the of the track.

4:15Speaker 1:So really an interesting track. It's it's fascinating. What do you say, A hundred and fifties some turns, they had more, they tried to make it safer and uh. And that's partly due to Jackie Stewart. Uh. In fact, it's it's mostly due to Jackie Stewart and a lot of other F one drivers that got together and said, we are actually they're actually gonna boycott this race if they didn't make some changes. And this this wasn't always the case because early on, you know, Formula one, it was it was a little bit different. It was it was it was fast, sure, but it wasn't quite as fast and it wasn't quite as dangerous as it was in the late nineteen sixties. And when they started adding some wings to the cars and we're at a little more down force, so you know where the car stuck to the track exactly, and so when they when they would go over some of the more I guess pronounced elevation quick elevation changes, maybe the car would get lighter than than it should have been or yeah, that was I was just trying to figure out why the drivers were so afraid of this particular track, and that's all I could come up with. Well, see,

5:17Speaker 1:the course got it wasn't that the course changed, of course, you know that is the same as it always exactly. Yeah, the cars got faster and the car has changed. They're probably more dependent on air flowing flowing around it in a certain way. Absolutely, they're not. Cars aren't supposed to get too far off the correct surface. Yeah, exactly right. Cars are designed to be on the track surface. And we've talked about this with you know, the thrust SSC and you know all the other cars that are going fast and essentially every car that we talked about so far on the fast track. Um. But cars are designed to stay low, to stay kind of stuck to the ground.

5:52Speaker 1:The faster you go, the more down force they have to have in order to stay on the ground. And what happens is that there's some dramatic elevation changes, and whether it's just a little rise or um, you know, it's like you're coming over a crest and you can't see what's going on on the other side of it, UM and it drops right off. At this point, the cars were going so fast that they were becoming airborne. And part of the problem was that with the way that the down force was UM designed, I guess on these cars it was meant to act like a reverse wing to push the car down. So when you get air underneath the car, it acts in the opposite way.

6:25Speaker 1:It acts like it's gonna want to lift off. And we've seen that in recent years of course with Lama and you know other tracks as well. It's not just it's not just the nerbor Ring, but but tracks where cars become airborne. These road courses are really really dangerous for drivers that are going super super fast and UM. Back then, you know, back in the late six nineteen sixties, Jackie Stewart was saying that at the time, and I think I've mentioned this another podcast even you know they f one podcast is that you know a lot of his friends were dying on this on this on these circuits, on these Grand Prix circuits, and the Nerburgring was especially dangerous.

6:59Speaker 1:In fact um, one of the facts that came out of the Last Car Stuff episode, and I think it was something that Bennett mentioned, is that this is hard to believe. And I don't know where he dug this up, but I do remember him saying this that F one drivers had a two thirds chance over five years of competition that they would be killed in competition in five years. Two thirds chance. That's sixty six percent chance that you would die in a race if you raced for five years or longer in F one competition at the time.

7:27Speaker 1:And this is like, you know, during the late nineteen sixties, early nineteen seventies. So Jackie Stewart had a very valid point, you know, he said, you know, I'm I'm losing I'm losing friends every weekend on these tracks. Safety has got improved in some way. Let's start with cars, of course, but let's move on to you know, safety equipment and tracks and everything. So he wanted improvements everywhere the Nurburgring. They respond They changed a lot of the a lot of the track, you know, they slowed down some of the corners and you know, it made it a little bit safer in a lot of ways, and there's a lot of ways they can design corners to make them a little bit better. But overall, still the Nurburgring is just an inherently dangerous course for a lot of reasons.

8:06Speaker 1:And I think you you already know a couple of reasons. Why, Yeah, yeah, I think I know what you're trying to get a I mean the fact that the track is kind of laid right on top of these extremely rolling hills in the middle of a forest. Um, it's a lot narrower than a lot of modern day race tracks are designed to be, the surfaces different, the weather conditions are different, and then just the general speed at what you're going Um, of course is designed at a time when cars didn't see speeds like they see now. Sure they were fast, but they weren't quite as fast as they were in the sixties and seventies. And then even now, I mean they're they're incredibly fast. You know, I think I want to mention this right now, if that's all right, I want to take just a second to say that I think the last German Grand Prix that was run at the Nurburgring. And that's very specific. Well we'll talk about that in a second. But the last one that was running at the Nurburgring was and uh, you know, of course there were other during Grand Prix. I mean, the latest one was in twenty eighteen, I believe, right, or

9:01Speaker 1:was there one in En There might have been one. They all right, um, but but yeah, they kind of like skip around. So it's not always run at hockenheim Ring or at um you know, the Nurburgring. It's kind of a mix of the two, or sometimes it's just not even either one of those, you know, depending on whether they're gonna run something else. Um. You know, you mentioned one thing here that another thing that I need to mention real quick. The weather. The weather is a huge factor in this. Now, this course is so large that there is a there there's a town in the middle of the track. I mean, there are people that live there. There residents that live there throughout the year.

9:39Speaker 1:There's a castle in the middle of the track. That's how big this is. And all of the you know, the the surrounding property I mean, and the castle goes back to like the eleven hundreds or something like that. Goes back a long long way. I mean it's an old, old castle. Of course. If you ever look at any bit of footage that is maybe shot where you know there's an airplane fly over, the track itself is beautiful track. I mean you would you would just kind of your mouth with water wanting to get onto this track and drive it because it's such an interesting looking track. It looks beautiful, really it does. And that's why Jackie Stewart decided he was going to call it the Green Hell because he feared it, but it was also beautiful and it was green, and you know, the trees are right nearby.

10:19Speaker 1:There's a great sensation of speed and everything. But the weather is something that you really have to factor into this thing because it could be pouring rain on one part of the course and the other part could be completely dry and sunny. And we've seen Sir Jackie Stewart talk about this and he one one scene is one where he was in a rolls Royce and he's still in his his his garb right his his his fire suit on and yeah, I think a little yeah, I think they picked him up in the pits and said, hey, Jackie, let's go out and talk about the course a little bit. Here.

10:50Speaker 1:We happen to have this Rolls Royce for you, you know, as a convertible, very nice, perfect Yeah, that's right, did no problem. Maybe maybe it was even his who knows. Um, Yeah, he's driving the track and he's discussing what some of the surface changes are like and what some of the weather changes are like. From what I gather from what Stewart said was that the different types of pavement hold water different besides the fact that one lap it may not be raining, and then the next time you come through a certain section that had rained or is currently raining, the weight water drains off of the track is different as well, So some spots that will dry out quicker and some spots that will dry out slower. And then water running across the track in a certain way creates little streams, so that if you can imagine flying over a hill and then setting up for a turn right after you jump over this little rise and then it being wet on the other side, you know, you can imagine how tricky and the I guess just generally sketchy this particular track can get when you're racing on it. Yeah, and it wasn't wet the previous lap, so you know,

11:50Speaker 1:the things change on this course over the course of one lap. It's just it's fascinating to me that you know, there there is a weather factor as well in this and it it almost reminds me a little bit of um, you know, like Pike's Peak or something like that, where you might you might encounter a date with sunshine and warm weather at the bottom, you get to the top and there's a blizzard practically going on. Um it's similar to that or well, that's why it maybe the ultimate test track in a way. A lot of conditions are different.

12:17Speaker 1:Road surfaces are different. There's concrete slabs, there's bank turns, uphill downhill, suspension gets light, gets heavy, like you mentioned, It's just it's a place where everybody could go and kind of see what they have. You know what. I love the idea that you know, everybody's kind of got their own opinion about what this course is all about. Like the drivers do a lot of them are I think a lot of them are afraid of it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or at least uh, there's a level of respect about the course.

12:47Speaker 1:Well you know honestly. Yeah, yeah, I guess maybe the respect is a better way to say it. I mean to say they're afraid of it. I mean they do it anyway because they've got nerves of steel, right. I think I would be afraid of it, really if I had to go out and do that. Of course, the first time I assume that rookies are afraid of it, probably I'm as sure. I'm sure that they are. But Jackie Stewart, he said, um in in one of those laps, you know he has he does have great respect for the course. He does, and I think he has a little bit of fear for of it because it is a kind of scary thing to drive. You never know if you're gonna make it back. He said. He always every time he left to go to the German Grand Prix at the nurburg Ring, he would stop at the end of his driveway, look back at his house, kind of like one long moment, and then leave. And he said, because I never knew if I was ever going to come home from that race. Because that's not dangerous it was.

13:32Speaker 1:And he said, while he was driving this thing, he said, you know, I drive this at speed, I'm going a hundred and seventy five miles an hour on this course at the time he was this is back in again in the late sixties, hundred seventy five miles an hour. He said, you know, when I if I really were ever to walk this course, if I would ever just like really take in that, you know, there's no guardrail here, and over here there's you know, just pine trees, and you know over in this area here, like if I go off, I'm going into a stream, you know that kind of thing. He said, if I ever, if I ever really just took all that in, I probably would never drive here ever again. I'd never raced his course.

14:08Speaker 1:And uh, and I think he's got a point. He said, the less he knows about the course, the better, and that he just knows I gotta go fast and turn left right there, right right there, and aim for that tree so that I can hit the carousel in the right spot. And it's just he knew the course really well. But he said, the less he knew about the surrounding part of the course, you know, the the dangerous part, like if you were to go off course, the better off he was. Yeah, so he had he did have a healthy respect for it, and you know, I think there's more, there's more to it. You know, we listened to UM some audio from Boris said who is also he's a legendary road racing driver as well. You can look up this interview if you want on YouTube. You can find the entire Boris said, UM discussion, it's I think it's got the title is long. It's it's it's UM Steve Littart's podcast. Yes, it's he's a he's a he was a crew chief in NASCAR for are several drivers.

15:01Speaker 1:It's Steve Lettart on Location and that's his podcast, although this one has video as well, but it was from Watkins Glen and there he's discussing, you know, the dramatic elevation changes and and if you skip forward to about the ten minute mark, that's about where the discussion about the Nurburgring starts. And uh, he's talking about he races in something that's the twenty four hours of Nurburgring. So imagine how grueling that would be on on you know, a series of drives. It's not just one driver, obviously, but he said something just remarkable here. He said that at the start of that race two hundred and thirty cars start that race, two hundred and thirty. Imagine starting the race with two hundred and thirty cars on the track.

15:40Speaker 1:And we're talking about a track like what we've been discussing, a long, long track, you know, with a hundred and fifties some hundred fifty six turns, elevation changes, it's you know, going to get dark at some point during this race. There's weather changes. Uh, there's very little runoff. There's you know, the almost no guard rails of mentioned. I mean there are some, but you're in an extremely fast cars. And he said you if you're in a fast car and when he and he was, of course he's in one of the top end vehicles. He was passing on average fifty cars per lap. Yeah, fifty, I think he said something like the faster cars a lot slower cars. Every three lap means a sports car races all different kinds of categories. Yeah, you know, that can make it dangerous too, because you've got slower cars and faster cars on the same track. You know, what's interesting And gosh, you know, I know we're going way over here, we have to stop a moment. But um, what's really interesting? He said, and here's our answer. Here he says, it's about a nine minute lap for him in the sports car series, So you know that Formula one Cars is doing a

16:40Speaker 1:lot faster than I mean, I guess a seven minute lap something like that ballpark during the tourist and parting, which is the kind of the daily driver events they have at the track. Yeah, I think they said like a ten minute lap is something to brag about. So we'll get there. Well, we'll talk about that soon, but I think first maybe we should take a break. I love this topic. This is a this is an interesting one because the truck has so much history, so much, so much going on for it. We're going to talk about the manufacturers and what they're doing at the Nrburgring because it's not just you know, races that happen there, it's it's manufacturers that are going there and using it as a test facility, and they're using it as kind of a level ground test facility so that you know, when one manufacturer says our car can lapped Nerburgring in this amount of time, the other manufacturer has a way to compare exactly to that time with their own version of whatever car that they want. To bring, whether that's an all electric car, whether that's a hybrid car, internal combustion car, whatever type of car they want to bring,

17:42Speaker 1:sports car, sedan, any of those things. They can claim that they have the fastest vehicle based on the timing that is consistent that at that track. Now we talked about all the other things that are inconsistent. Of course, drivers are not going to be consistent. You're not gonna have the same driver in uh different manufacturers. Car is gonna bring your own driver, you know, whether it's a pro or somebody that you know they have in their own test track or whatever. Um, there's gonna be the weather, there's going to be uh just you know, even um atmospheric conditions that day at high pressure, low pressure, wind, you know whatever. They're gonna have to deal with all that.

18:15Speaker 1:But the thing is that you know you're on the same track, You've got the same distance, you've got the same timing facility that you know says like this is an accurate time. Everybody gets the same treatment. There's no there's no difference in this. It's the exact same distance every time and no no difference at all, no variance, And you don't have to do like a one run one way and one run the other way like you do for land speed record. It's just a lap time.

18:38Speaker 1:And that lap time is something that these manufacturers have really promoted over the last decade or so, or maybe even more. It might be more like fifteen years. I haven't really been paying attention, I guess for that long to figure out when they started, but it seems like for the last decade or so, the Nurburgring lap time is a huge deal for sports car manufacturers. So they they bring a lot of different cars they bring again, there's a huge variance. And and let me tell you just a couple of times here and and we'll just kind of get the ball rolling here maybe and we can we can talk about, you know, um, some of these in a little bit more detail, maybe in just just a moment, if that's all right. All right, So, but number ten on the list is the the Lexus l F, a Nurburgring package also a special package just for the nerber Ring, right all right? Interesting? Right? The time that the lap time is seven minutes, fourteen seconds, all right, just in a couple of hundreds of a second as well. I'm not even gonna read those so seven and fourteen, alright, almost almost seven fifteen. If you move up, you know, you get to like the Corvette

19:38Speaker 1:C seven. Then there's this is a surprising one. The gumper To Apollo comes in at two and from two thousand nine. This is a car from a long time ago. The Gumpert Apollo is still number eight on the list. It's seven minutes and just under seven minutes and twelve seconds, so still really really fast for that car. You go up a little bit higher. You got a Mercedes and Nissan. There's the g t R. Of course. Uh there's the Dodge Viper A c R, which comes in at seven oh one point zero three, so just under just shy of breaking that seven minute mark. They didn't quite do it with a Dodge Viper ACR. Then there's a Porsche which is the nine eighteen Spider. They we have the first Lamborghini. Oh that's a clue, I just gave away, right clue. The first Lamborghini comes in at the number three.

20:22Speaker 1:That's the Hurricane I think, I hope that's the way you pronounced that Hurricane Hurricane um which comes in at six fifty two. So they actually broke the seven minute mark. This is a Porsche g T two r S and then the number one car on this list is a Lamborghini event the Door s v J which comes in and get this is a fast time six minutes and forty six minutes forty four seconds point nine seven, so just under six minutes forty five seconds, and that's really really moving, right, but a smoke. But I want to point out one thing here. These cars from one to ten, they're all sports cars. Of course, they all come in within thirty seconds of each other. And that's how tight this race is, right, And we talked about all the differences in the track and things that can happen, weather conditions and whatnot. And it's funny that they use this as a standard and they quibble over thirty second difference, and you know, the drivers are all of course, they're different.

21:18Speaker 1:Manufacturers spend a lot of money to go and do this right, and they want to be number one. They want to at least be in the top ten. And I understand, I completely get that. It's it's kind of important to keep your sports car in the top ten on the fastest cars that you're working right now, because that's kind of the standard right, where is a Ferrari on this list? Exactly? They stay out of Germany, they say, come to Italy where racing. This is the good point.

21:44Speaker 1:They're running on Italian tracks. Yeah, maybe maybe they are. I don't know, maybe there's a Monza record that I don't know about or whatever. But um, the Nurburgring is is fantastic for this and it is a level playing field. But you make a very good point, Curtain, And we talked about this off air we were getting ready for this podcast in that I kind of I I like, for a short amount of time reading the forums. Uh you know that they go along with these numbers, you know, like when you we look up the Nurburgring fastest times or any article that has to do with like, you know, someone breaking a record. I'd like to read the comments just for a bit of a short time because quickly people get out of control. They start to have a flame war about all kinds of different things that really have very very little impact on the on the ultimate time of these cars, I believe, I think. So. Anyways, I mean, maybe maybe there's more to it than I than I know, but you and I both kind of had a good laugh about that right. Yeah. So, so there's minor, minor things that that people think make a huge difference in wings like tires, and if the car

22:48Speaker 1:has a racing package built into it, roll bars and and that sort of thing. Traction control, you know, the driver assist options that may not be conducive to running a fast lap may actually help the car run faster. All right, there's like three things there that I want to mention, Okay, so said um. Traction control and drivers this type functions. You know, I I don't know where they stand on if those are turned off, turned on, or you know whatever. I'm not sure how that all works out with real race drivers want very little of that, but I would think so, but even if one has a little bit of that, they do. Yeah, that's that's the crazy part. Okay. So so UM also roll bars. Okay, so certain cars are built from the manufacturer with a roll bar that's part of the structure of the vehicle itself.

23:32Speaker 1:So that's something that has to be a factor because it does stiff in the chassis does make a difference in the handle in the vehicle. The other thing, and this is one that a lot of people on these forums will get just I right about tires. Tires is a big one. You mentioned tires is one of the first things, and they seem to go crazy over this versus like the factory tires versus aftermarket tires. Right, So the the main argument here is that, um, and this is if I'm getting the right and you tell me, Kurt, if you get the same impression or not, or if you have a different opinion about this, Okay, But what I am understanding is that people are upset that they're not using the factory provided tires on the cars to do these runs, but they are putting tires on the cars that cost Let's say I'm gonna just ballpark this and it's general. Let's say that the tires are a thousand dollars each or two thousand dollars each, or you know, maybe even more super expensive tires. I mean, they're really really pricey, great tires, sticky compound, you know all that. However, they are available on the market. You can buy the

24:37Speaker 1:like you and I could buy them if we had the money, if we wanted to, we could buy that same tire from a manufacturer. What a lot of people are confusing, I think is the fact that they're not using a proprietary race compound that is for a certain team or a certain series or something like that that you cannot buy commercially on the market. You can't go out and find a website where you could buy that tire. You have to be part of that team in order to get that that compound, that racing compound. And I think that's the confusion, because it seems like it seems totally fair to me that if you want to put a pair of tires, on a set of tires, or even brake pads or whatever on the car, that you can buy somewhere, you know, aftermarket or wherever from the manufacturer, you know, whatever it happens to be. Those are consumables.

25:19Speaker 1:Those seem like, you know, tires were Eventually you're going to replace the tires, Eventually you're going to replace the break And of course some people, I'm sure, buy Lamborghini and the first thing they do is buy a new set of tires, tires and brake pads because they want to improve the breaking performance. And of course that improves your your lap time because you can go harder into the turns and you can break faster and come out of those turns faster. I mean, of course I understand the importance of breaking like a better break compound, a better tire compound. I understand all that. I get it.

25:49Speaker 1:But if it's available and it's something that everybody could do, yeah, why not? I mean, I guess maybe they're confusing, like maybe stock production cars with production cars get a little to nit picky about records. Like a production car is a car that you can buy with things on it that you can also buy. Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel the same way. Like if you may get a Lamborghini, maybe not a new one, but he used one, and you want to go out and bust a record at the Nurburgring, but you don't want to have the same beat up tires that came on the car when you bought it. Used. You want to pop some new tires on before you go run the nerveburg Ring. So, but you should still be considered you should still be considered a stock car exactly, So do it? I mean, in that case, you're I guess the other argument would be, in order to break that record, you would have to go and buy the exact same tire that they put onto the factory in order to make a break that record, right, right, and not to mention as soon as you run a lap or two or three on this a set of tires, you might want some new ones. Anyway. What if I

26:48Speaker 1:have a different air filter in the car, What if I have a different oil in the car? Does that matter? I mean, I mean, what if I'm using a different grease, you know for the chassis. You know, what if I'm all that stuff like it's not not production gasoline. It's kind of the same argument though, things that they are consumable, things that that you use up you should change when needed. Yeah, this argument is is just it's it's it's funny in a way, but it's also maddening in another way. Let's let's talk about tourists and pharton after a break. So we we we teased a little bit that we're gonna talk about something that has a ridiculous name. Uh this now as it's a German name, of course, and I'm sure that they don't think it's ridiculous. Of course. All it really means, I think, if if I had to guess what this really means, it just means tourist day, right, or tourist driving experience or something like that. But but the word is is silly. Yeah, it's it's tourists and partings.

27:45Speaker 1:You can't even say I don't know why I can't say it. It's it's we've laughed about this. It's so juvenile. It's like it's like I'm like a kid, like a little kid when when we say tourist and farton, but it is tourist and farting, And all it really means is that, um, there's certain days on the nerve burgering. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners are already aware of this, that you can go and drive on the track and you pay a little bit of a fee and I don't remember exactly what it is. I want to say, it's like thirty dollars or something like that.

28:12Speaker 1:There's there's a list somewhere online. I know that you can look up the prices. But the list is a little bit terrifying. And I'll tell you why in just a moment. It just been ten seconds, I'll tell you. But you can go and look at the prices of things and find out exactly what it is and when it's happening, Because there are certain days when they're having other activities. You know, manufacturers have it reserved, or uh they have a race or you know, something like that's going on. But essentially this becomes like a one way toll road. Of course, there's no opposing traffic on this little tiny road. But the reason that the list that is terrifying is because when you look up the price, like to just to drive on the track, they start giving you the prices if you crash, what it costs to replace the guard rail segments, what it costs to have the track team members come out and assist you in your car to get out of the car. They give you prices for medical help. They give you prices for a helicopter to come and fly you off the track if they need to, which has happened many times.

29:09Speaker 1:I think, Um, they start giving you like some really scary numbers, and they're they're high numbers, they're expensive, but maybe look past that, just look at the price of entry and know that you can keep yourself under control on the track and uh and you'll be fine. But you know, from what I've seen, Kurt Um, and you've seen some of the footage as well, like when when just anybody can go out there and drive you know, any car that has and you know, they get their engine checked out. They get you know, it's not leaking oil or anything. They've got lights, the tires are okay, you know, they check out. I'm sure they have a little bit of a um a prep you know that they have to go through. There's no course, like, you don't have to learn any rules, but there are rules we'll talk about. Once you get out there. You deal with people that are professional, and you deal with some people that are absolute fools and everything in between. From what I got other, any old car, any old person can go out there and do whatever they want to do, besides go backwards and do donuts in the middle of the track. I mean you, just as long as you're

30:10Speaker 1:going forward and abiding by some basic rules of the road, can go out there and have have a good time at the Nurburgring. Essentially, those are the rules. Now there are other rules that we should talk about. There's a there's a funny video about what you should not do on the Nurburgring, and I'll mention these. I think there's like seven points that you know you're not supposed to do, and they all make perfect sense. And they're they're done in a funny way. But I'll tell you that I've watched many videos of this, and you know that everybody loves to watch the failed videos. I guess you know, the ones where you know someone's coming around a corner and they just lose it and you know, horrible thing happens.

30:43Speaker 1:They destroy their car, they destroy their daily driver or maybe it's a tracker. I don't know, but it's probably typically a daily driver from the looks of it. Yes, yeah, just people just go out there in their cars, like a fun weekend from work, dip into the Nurburgring. Yeah, and there's a little bit of everything. There's there's camper vans out there. There's bmw use that you know, the cars that have uh you know, full uh you know, decal packages and everything. It looks like a race car, so maybe it is a track day car, you know, a fun toy for the weekend or whatever. But other cars they do look like just maybe like the family sedan that someone's taken out for fun. You can rent a car, you can go out there. We'll talk about that too, But you know, those are the fun ones to watch. But there's also some great videos. And I don't know if you caught these or not, but there's some fantastic videos of people that are driving the track really well, and some some you know, privateers, I guess you know, and I call them privateers. They're not real racers, but but people that bring their own vehicle, you know,

31:33Speaker 1:a BMW or Mercedes or something, and they're just really skilled and they can really handle it around that track, and it's it's really cool to watch. I mean, they're really good and they're racing close with other people and that's the cool thing. In that discussion from Boris said earlier that we mentioned there's a lot of traffic on that track and it's a lot of different speeds, so you gotta like kind of be accommodating to that and the weather and all the conditions and everything. But um, if you get somebody, if you can watch somebody who's doing this really well with another person maybe that's doing really well, they're chasing each other around the track, it's fun to watch. It's entertaining. It's just as good as any race that you'll ever watch. It really is. It's fun.

32:11Speaker 1:You know, near this track, everybody kind of gathers around this one gas station. And around this gas station is a lot like when if you can imagine this, and I think a lot of people can. When you know, people are leaving those caffeine and octane type shows on the weekends, and everybody is leaving the parking lot and they're kind of doing burnouts and showing off a little bit. As they exit the parking lot. There's hundreds of people lining the road. They're very very close to the road.

32:37Speaker 1:They've all got cameras out, they have some of them have chairs, they've got their own personal cars lining the roads. There's fences set up and everything. On these tourist days, people line up like that. Near this gas there's particular gas station and it's called the E D gas Station and it looks this looks like doord ed the ED gas station and and um, it's the one that's closest to the track. So all of the cars and motorcycles and trucks and whatever they tend to fill up there on their way to the track, and that means that they're full of fuel. They're ready to go out on the race track. They're excited, they're kind of adrenalinees going and they've got this crowd that's kind of egging them on to you know, do a burnout or so. You'll find a lot of like it, kind of interesting videos.

33:18Speaker 1:You'll see a little bit of everything. It looks like a cruise event or something, you know, where some really amazing cars drive by. Also some very plane cars drive by that are a little bit maybe souped up, a little bit ready for the track, or you know, others that are just plane Jane sedans and are just there for the fun fun of it. Um. From what I gathers, that's just part of the experience of going to the track. Yeah, for tourists and parting, Yeah, it's just you go, you get your gas and you maybe show your car to the crowd a little bit and then onto the track.

33:48Speaker 1:Isn't that The funny thing is because some people will, you know, they'll they'll get an accident outside of the track because they're trying to show off. But they're they're like moments away from the one of the greatest tracks in the world, and they're gonna be able to go and just push it out right as far as when you can go crash on the track instead of in front of the the gas very good point. Yeah, very good point. Now, thankfully, it seems like there are fewer accidents there than at the caffeine and octane type shows that that I've seen. It seems more common to see people wrecking leaving those For some reason. Um, maybe that's the star when at work leading out the before you get to the track. If you can't handle the gas station, then don't even go to the nerve burgering. No, absolutely, all right, So you know that's one thing that's one part of it, and you know that's part of this little town that's right there within the boundaries of the track or near the boundaries of the track. So they ask you that you'd be respectful, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about, all right.

34:39Speaker 1:So one of the rules. And again this is coming from a video that was kind of like a don you know, don't do this on the track, and it's very funny in the way that it's done. You can find it online on YouTube, and it's just it's it's funny in the way that things are phrased. You know that. So I'm not going to do it very much justice here. You should go and watch this if you get a chance because it's kind of comical, but it also has some decent footage of what's going on there and and tells you some of the rules and explains them a little better than I can. But um, now, at first we should say that you know, it's open almost every weekend and at the last and the last few hours of almost every day for this tourist activity. So you know they call it tourists, but it's just open for people to pay and go on this track. Of course, there are track officials there and everything to make sure that things are safe. They've got flags and everything to keep you in line. Cars can be driven any car, bike can be driven on the track as long as it's road legal. That's that's one thing. Um. You can only here's one of the rules. You can only overtake

35:35Speaker 1:another car on the left. There's no passing on the right. If you're passed on the right, you're doing it wrong. And that's which is also should be a rule here in the United States on any road. It should just just don't want to go out there. Who who don't know it is a rule the right it's an it's an unwritten well maybe even a written probably has written as one of them, So overtake on the left, never on the right. Okay, that makes sense, right, lap will get this. This is interesting because of what we've been talking about. If you're going there and thinking that you're gonna time your lap, that's not what's gonna happen. And I don't want you to have the clock in the car.

36:12Speaker 1:Now this you can time your lap, but you have to do it in kind of a roundabout way, so you can use your go Pro and you can record your session. You know, you can record however you want it to do, and of course that's gonna keep time, so you're able to go back later and deduce your time from the go pro footage. But you're not able to have a clock right in front of you as you're driving. And they many drivers have said, if you're out here for these tourist days and you're watching a clock as you go around the track, you're gonna have a bad day no matter what, because well, somebody's gonna get in front of you in a camper van and ruin your time. Right Because there's so much traffic on the on the course at any given time, you're gonna have to pass, and you know, you might have to slow down and do that, and and that's fine. Just go out there, even like the guys and girls that do it all times said, just go out there and have fun. Just go out and have a great time.

37:03Speaker 1:Drive fast, get your adrenaline going, you know, just have a good time and know that you've done You've you've completed a decent lap. But it doesn't have to come down to the exact second, to the exact you know, tens or hundreds of a second that that you think it does. Just go out and have fun, and it's better if you're not watching the clock. And especially you know that the track officials don't want you watching it because it's going to lead to aggressive driving because if you start to fall behind in your time, you're gonna try to push it even harder and you're gonna end up wrecking probably. So, um, it makes sense when you think about it that way, But initially I thought, well, that's crazy. They're not letting you time your own lap. Well, you can time it. There's also GPS units that you can get that will just keep time as you go around, So there's no reason to have it there on the dash look at and I think you can even you know, in your own head, you can just create a little variance and you could say like, okay, well, you know, and my time was decent. It was nine or it was ten minutes and thirty seconds, but I was held

37:58Speaker 1:up for you know, a good twenty seconds of that by uh, you know, the Honda Civic or whatever it was. It was in front of me. You know. Um, oh, don't leave the scene of a crash. Um. So if you crash and you know, you bang up a guard rail, even if it's just you alone, you're not supposed to leave that scene of a crash. Um. You can stay there, um and wait for somebody come over and check you out and make sure that things all right and get things back on track again. I guess, so to speak, because because um, there's probably some clean up that has to happen, and they want to make sure that, you know, the wheel is not going to fall off in the next turn. Fluid leaks from the car. They don't want you dragon, that's a huge fluids across the track. That is a big one because I've seen many videos where someone has leaked fuel on the previous you know, the previous cars leaked fuel or or oil and four cars will wreck, I mean, ruins their day, ruins their year, month, whatever.

38:46Speaker 1:I don't know. It's expensive, it's very expensive. So um, yeah, that's that's a that's a huge issue. There's no standing on the track. And you and I have both seen examples of this in those videos. Uh one one boy. One of these videos, a guy nearly loses his legs when another car comes by. He barely makes over that wall. Yeah, he dives over the fence and fall. I think you can kind of see him frolling down the other side because there was a hill on the other side. He tumbled for quite some time. He and yeah, and you know he I don't know, he's like flicking off the people with the damner. They're yelling something Backeah, Well they're probably yelling, idiot is stupid, you know, you know, what are you doing? Because he was he was between the guardrail, which is I mean, it looked like it was chest high and and I don't think it's like a BMW that's coming at him really fast. And it did clip the wall right where he was, and yeah, he hopped over like and just I mean just just half a second before it hit him. It's crazy too, because he was on the inside of a turn and you wouldn't this places where you wouldn't think that a car would

39:48Speaker 1:be crashing into But how that's why there's the rule. Again, I don't stand on the side. And I think that situation was an oil situation where there was oil or something slick on the trail, like, because there were many cars that were wrecking in the same turn for no good reason. I mean, they're just spinning out for no good reason. Um, okay, the next one, Uh, this one a little again counterto no drifting, you're not allowed to intentionally drift on the Nrburgring and a track. Marshal uh will report you if they see you doing doing this drifting. Now, I watched videos where you can see that people are taking turns intentionally drifting through them. You know, it's if you slide a little bit, that's one thing. If you are drifting through the turn, that's a big difference. And there are people that I've seen intentionally drifting. Yeah, they do get reported, and I think I don't know if there's a fine involved or if you just are kind of banned for maybe that day or that week or whatever from the Yeah, um, this last one, this is silly.

40:39Speaker 1:No driving like a maniac. That's the last rule. I mean, that was the funniest last rule. Like I thought, I thought, Okay, there's gonna be something big here. There's gonna be something really you know, monumental here at the end. No driving like a maniac because it's on a public road, and you know, I guess it does make sense when you when you understand this, when you get off the track, you are in this little town, you know, if you're going to the gas station or wherever. I think this is where that they're talking about. Is like, you know, you've got all that energy from the track and you still are kind of at the track, you know, because you're in that area. Don't keep driving like you're on the track when you're in the town. I mean, the Jones people don't want to deal with that. They would have to deal with that every day all day if that was the case, and I can imagine that would be infuriating. So, uh, they don't drive like a maniac.

41:20Speaker 1:Thing makes more sense when you understand that, Yeah, there's this community there and you're really disrupting the community if you drive like that through there. You should just leave the track situation on the track and then realize that you're on a public road after that. Well, what I find about all of these rules is they are generally just rules of the common sense. All right, So I have a one, one quick question for you before we wrap up. And I think we already talked about this, But um, would you go and drive this track knowing what you know about it and seeing what you've seen? Um, in your own personal car? Now, of course, rental cars.

41:56Speaker 1:If you rent a car from anywhere other than um, a place called a grudge which is right in that area, you can rent a sports car and go there. Very expensive. You can do it. If you rent a car like an Avis or Hurts or whoever, you will be banned forever from renting a car from them if you take it on the Nerbergring track. So, and we do have a listener from car stuff that happened to. He showed me the letter, um, so and it's probably worth it courage, you know, Yeah, he did, he was he was happy, he knew, he knew the consequences. But would you take your own personal vehicle on the nerber Ring and drive it knowing what you know, now it would be fun to go out there and and just tool around a little bit. Would you be a little just just a little bit afraid of some yahoo that's gonna, you know, try to like they're trying to break a lap record or something. You know that they're gonna cause you to to wreck. Because I know you can control yourself, of course, but what about the the the part of it that you don't have control over a little bit a little, I mean, I feel as if you should have that fear in general. So it's easier just not to think

42:56Speaker 1:about the other people. And then from what I can tell, there's a healthy people just out there having fun, and then there's some people that are taking it a little too serious. Yeah, and this this is not an event to go out there and try to break a track record, because first of all, you're not going to there's no way you're gonna get even close to the six minutes and forty five second time of the Lamborghini, of course not. Probably not even gonna get under ten minutes. Probably not.

43:22Speaker 1:So if anyone's planning to go out there, just take it easy and have fun with the experience. Good advice. Now, I one one little caveat that I want to mention here because I think it's worth worth mentioning, is that, you know, when you're on the track, I would assume that insurance doesn't play a factor in this. Will like, I think that insurance is probably off. They're not gonna They're not gonna cover anything that happens on that track, I think. So that might be the only difference between you know, like the risk that you assume when you're on the highway and I know there's still a physical danger and there's still you know, property damaged danger and all that. I get it. But I do think that you're financially risking a little bit more when you go on this track, and it's worthwhile to look into that before you go and before you do this, because you know, again I don't have all the details here about this obviously.

44:08Speaker 1:I'm just kind of, you know, giving you an overview, and I want listeners to go out and really investigate all this and find out what's what's happening there, because I think there's some I think there's some fun to be had there. Of course, there's a lot of fun to be had there. Yeah, So Scott, would you do do what I do. This is what everyone wants, you know. I think I think that you know, I might. I would probably rent a car. I know it's expensive, but if I were going to do it, I don't think i'd risk my own car out there. Um. I think that I would rent a car from this this place that I mentioned, this Big Grudge that if you go to want to go to a website and check out the prices, it's Big Grudge dot d E and you can check out what they've got there. They get all kinds of sports cars and they're expensive. They're not cheap, you know, and you pay for like two laps or twelve laps or you know whatever. It's like different rates.

44:53Speaker 1:But I would assume that insurance comes along with that. You're probably still paying quite a bit if you wreck it, but I bet there's a limp it to it. But anyways, it's it's a worthwhile thing to check into. So look up the Nervebourg Ring and these tourist days and this is one of those things that all you car enthusiasts should put on your bucket list. It seems like a really great experience. Why not. I'd love to get over there to do it and you know. In the meantime, if you want, you can contact us and tell us if you have done this or if you want to go over and do this. We are always on social media as well, so you know we're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram where we are car Stuff hs W on all three of those. But um, I guess that's about it for me, Kurt, how about you? That's it for me?

45:30Speaker 1:Anything else all right? I guess we will see you next time, and thanks for listening everyone. Car Stuff is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts or my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.