Teresa Oaxaca Returns

0:00SPEAKER_00:I also like to go to nature and get inspiration and I'll travel to see museums or or or more nature, I guess. You know, I mean I get ideas in cities too, but it's mostly the the flower pots or you know the art in cities where it's all collected. It's it's not really like the the cityscape that inspires me at the moment.

0:22SPEAKER_02:So there's like an inspirational gathering process to your process, right?

0:27SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I don't I don't know if life has to get in the way of working, if you can figure out some way where you're getting inspired in your life.

0:35SPEAKER_02:And then Oh, that's that's it. I think that's the nugget right there. Welcome to Creative Contemplation Podcast. I'm your host and the creator, Suzanne Lago Arthur. I'm a realist painter working in oils from Loudoun County, Virginia, and I'm fascinated with the subject of creativity. I want to know what was the spark that led creative professionals into the fields they are in, why they make the work that they do, and what can we learn from each other?

1:07SPEAKER_02:Listen along as we answer these questions and more. I'll be interviewing people from all over the creative universe, artists, designers, writers, you name it, even museum experts who will give us insight into other famous creative minds. Maybe together we can find the answers. Thanks for joining us today. My guest today is my friend and the talented artist, Teresa Oaxaca, known for her elaborate classical surrealism paintings. Hi, Teresa. Welcome to the podcast.

1:36SPEAKER_00:Hi, Su Jane. Thanks for having me.

1:38SPEAKER_02:Oh, I'm so excited to have you back. You're my first repeat guest, and I think that's super appropriate since you were my first guest when I started this podcast.

1:45SPEAKER_00:Yeah, me too. It's always fun to chat with you. Always fun.

1:49SPEAKER_02:Speaking of chatting, the theme for this particular episode is kind of based on something really profound that you said to me recently. You and I, we were at the National Gallery of Art going and looking at the exhibits, right? And you just kind of casually turned around and said to me, and I'm gonna put this in air quotes, that the goal is to along your life so that your job is creating as much as possible and make a living doing that. And I was like, whoa, that's it.

2:13SPEAKER_02:That is so beautiful and profound. And it got me thinking about a whole other things kind of associated with that. Like that creating work is what brings us joy as artists and following that joy. And so I would really love for you to kind of talk about that a little bit, about how you do that in your own work, how you support this kind of lifestyle that allows you to create as much as you possibly can.

2:35SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Yeah, it's funny how that sounds the way you put it, like it's astounding. Because it I think we all intuitively knew that when we got into being artists, that there was work involved, and then maybe it wouldn't be um the most profitable venture. It could be, but it wouldn't be the goal, right? The goal was to make the art. So it's it's kind of like uh living to work versus working to live, you know. It's sort of it's one of those jobs I I think some people call vocational job, right?

3:08SPEAKER_00:So at least I think for for me, yeah, I wanted to be um painting primarily. I wanted that to be the lion's share of my time. Right.

3:18SPEAKER_02:Cause when because when you you have a creative profession, everything else kind of gets in the way, right? Like the marketing, the promotion of it, you know, every other things. And the actual thing that that really probably started your whole career is the fact that you enjoyed painting and drawing, I would imagine, right? Not that you enjoyed marketing, you know, or or all these other things, you know. So that I think was a really interesting statement, you know, about just kind of being aware of the things that bring us joy and and just leaning more into those, you know?

3:47SPEAKER_02:So what is your typical schedule kind of structured so that this allows you to do as much painting as you possibly can? Because you're extremely prolific. Like I know you personally, so I I know that about you.

3:58SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. Well, I think I always have a bit of a sense that I am not quite painting well enough or enough. So I'm driving myself to paint more. And um then there's a balance where you can go a little stir crazy if you're just sitting in front of the easel and you're not inspired. So um I try to go see fine art, usually at museums, and then I also like to go to nature and get inspiration, and I'll travel to see museums or or or more nature, I guess.

4:31SPEAKER_00:You know, um I I uh I mean I get ideas in cities too, but it's mostly the the flower pots or you know, the art in cities where it's all collected. It's it's not really like the the cityscape that inspires me at the moment.

4:46SPEAKER_02:So there's like an inspirational gathering process to your process, right?

4:51SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I don't I don't know if life has to get in the way of working, if you can figure out some way where you're getting inspired in your life.

4:59SPEAKER_02:And then Oh, that's that's it. I think that's the nugget right there.

5:02SPEAKER_00:Yeah.

5:03SPEAKER_02:And and constantly um kind of uh working on you know new ideas and new work and having that going because it's it's very it's very hard to I think to work in a way that you just kind of like are ceasing to work, you know, from one project to another and and not have something on the back burner, kind of ready to go. It's you know, it kind of feeds the creativity, right? And it sounds like that's what you're doing. I think that's something that I probably need to do more of is sit there and idea generate, you know?

5:29SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's funny because it seems so simple, doesn't it? And and I know we talk about this and and most artists talk about this. It's like there always seems to be some problem between um the idea, making the idea and then packaging it, whether that's having a show or selling it or yeah.

5:45SPEAKER_02:Does this involve writing for you? Do you have any I I think you mentioned that recently, you were doing some poetry.

5:50SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've started to write some poetry um for the paintings. So that that's fun. It helps me to work on the painting as it's going. Because sometimes I might I try to derive an imagery from the painting, and sometimes in the poem I come up with a new slant or uh a meaning, or there's a new character, and it's not in the painting. So I'm like, well, I should put that in the painting. And then I try to have uh the paintings all relate to each other.

6:17SPEAKER_00:Um, so I can re invoke past paintings or I can write about future paintings which wasn't which haven't happened yet. And I know you're not supposed to talk about a work you haven't made yet, but I kind of feel like sometimes doing that is good because then you feel like you have to go make it, so that creates a thread pulling you to making the future work.

6:35SPEAKER_02:So I'll that's beautiful. Yeah. So these poems oftentimes come precede the work itself. Like, is this part of the idea generation, the poetry, or is the poetry kind of sometimes after the fact, after you've been painting?

6:49SPEAKER_00:It's it's a mix. Um, sometimes, like if I'm on an airplane or if I'm traveling, um, or if I'm walking through the woods, I'll I'll try to bring a book of poetry or Kindle, um, or and I'll also bring a notebook with a pen. Um, so I'll try to write poetry in the moment. So I was recently in Rome and I was there for two weeks and I was by myself and I was walking around the city, and I would notice that I could write really well in churches where it was kind of quiet and oh wow, yeah, you know, you weren't expected to engage with anything or um wait in line to pay money or being rushed, you know, out of a room or out of a table.

7:28SPEAKER_00:So I would um write pretty well there. Um and and then the airplane too. Um so I'd imagine any kind of like waiting room place where there's like not a whole lot of going on, I write pretty well. Um, and if that area is uh a beautiful area, that works really well. Um I also write a bit in museums. I I don't write well in my studio because I have to, I feel like I have to paint. Oh, that's interesting. I have to go out, yeah, I have to go out into the woods or or some other place.

8:00SPEAKER_00:And so I don't write often. I mean, I mean I I should write more often, but um I I tried it, I suppose it's like making a painting. I try to write in situ, like in in the place of inspiration, because there's it's just like painting a sketch from from real life um versus trying to like invoke it from photos, especially take photos of landscape, it's never quite the same. Um and they're just some things you just can't maybe write about in the studio, at least for me.

8:28SPEAKER_02:Um are you going for like an atmosphere or vibe in your writing that then is kind of playing the scene for the for the work, or is it specific imagery that you're searching for?

8:39SPEAKER_00:Well, I I feel like I have some freedom in that I'm not a a writer or poet, so I don't have to really hold myself up to any kind of standard. So I'm I mostly was trained to come up with something in lieu of an artist statement because I was having trouble with artist statements and I was having well-meaning people say that artist statements were important for communicating the work and that people wanted to have some kind of information. And um I found I had a hard time being just matter-of-fact about describing my work, but with the poetry, especially if it's like a stream of conscious kind of poetry, then I felt I really enjoyed writing it and then it it went with the work.

9:16SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and like lately you've been incorporating that into your into your video making, your movie making, right?

9:21SPEAKER_00:It's like artist statements about the paintings so people can get a sense of what the work's about without me having to be super literal or trying to be art speake. And yeah, so I I'm enjoying it. So I'm playing a little catch-up. I'm I'm trying to write poetry for the old paintings, and then I'm writing it for the current ones as I'm working, and then I'm also writing it for the future ones.

9:45SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there's some really beautiful ones that and they're on your YouTube site, right? Your your videos, your movies where you have showcase your paintings. Yeah. And then there's this whole like, you know, for for listeners that haven't seen them yet, it's like it's like a movie, like an artistic movie. There's no other way to describe it. And and there's Teresa, and she's you know, she's kind of entering the world of these paintings and she's showing the paintings, and then on top of that, she overlays this poetry, or that's the narration of of the videos, and they're really they're really beautiful.

10:13SPEAKER_02:Uh, you know, I'm thinking in particular the one that you did with you know, there's been several in the woods.

10:18SPEAKER_00:Yes, with the apples. Yeah, just the the mystery of Dumbarton Oaks, I think that was called. Yeah, I've only made two finished videos with poetry that I think are really good because it's quite time consuming, and I have to wait until I finish a poem in a painting. But usually I start filming before I even come up with the painting or the poem. Yeah.

10:40SPEAKER_02:So you're you're kind of accumulating clips of of imagery, right? And then compiling that after. Okay, that's really cool. Yeah. Well, it's it's so smart because you're you're in creating this very rich world, you know, for your artwork to exist into, uh, which I think is really unique about you. You know, um, every you know, you're you're extremely creative, like you're always kind of working on something. And so that's why I think it's really interesting uh hearing about your you know schedule, your creative process, and how you you balance this whole thing about aligning your life so that the job is that you're creating more than than doing anything else.

11:12SPEAKER_02:And and yeah, I'd love to hear more about that if you could elaborate on.

11:16SPEAKER_00:I I feel like I've been painting better um the last few weeks. And um and that just means like painting more. And and so I've noticed that it mostly involves just like sitting down or standing up at the easel, whatever you're doing, and almost just like ordering yourself to complete certain passages in the painting. And the tricky part is if you're you know, you're just thinking about poetry or you're just thinking about what does it all mean and all that stuff, um, you're you're kind of taking your way yourself away from the the real meat of the matter, which is like you're sort of a craftsman um living in a a modern world of uh button pushers, not the word, but like a middleman.

12:00SPEAKER_00:Like right, most people are idea people or middle middlemen. They don't do the work. Yes, yes. They're in their hands a little too much, right? You don't get paid enough to to be a craftsman and live here. So we outsource to other countries for all sorts of of art, but we don't call it art, but it could be textiles or prefab or or or you know printing, all sorts of things. So so we're sort of uh a prehistoric creature.

12:27SPEAKER_02:Oh, definitely.

12:28SPEAKER_00:And I think we forget that. We forget how you know how much work it can just be to just sit and paint things. Yeah. I I think maybe when you first get into painting, it's obvious because you're in school and you're you're painting all the time and you're like doing clocking 10 or 12 hours a day.

12:42SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but and you're painting and you're not necessarily selling, or you're you're not necessarily teaching, right? So you're not necessarily doing all the other things that that make up the career, right?

12:50SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or you're painting, but you're not necessarily making art, or you're not necessarily making good paintings, and and then somehow you have to weave all those threads and make good paintings and then sell it, have the good career, be able to talk about it, right? So yeah, so you could so it's that's the hard part is getting back to the source of just you're a craftsman making or executing the idea. And you know, sometimes I'll even be like fussing over what brush or what kind of stroke to use, and that'll be like an excuse for not painting a strawberry or something.

13:19SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, but just like just just do it. You know, so I uh I I I noticed I had to kind of be um a little hard on myself, just be like, no excuses, just do this part, you know, like get get it done. Yeah, but you're and it it works, you know, because it's like, oh, I've done that before and it works. Of course I can do it. Um yeah that that probably sounds silly to people, but uh it and then when you do that, you get, or at least I get um like your your mental health can feel like it goes down a bit because you're exhausted, probably you're you're tired, you're not used to concentrating and and um working that hard for so long, and then you have to kind of make sure to get out and exercise or eat well or okay, you're hitting it's about your schedule, right?

14:05SPEAKER_00:Like you just come home from a nice art show and you're all dressed up and you're thinking about all the great conversations you had. Like it's like you need to go change and go paint, you know.

14:14SPEAKER_02:You can't so for me, what you're saying tracks back to the other thought about like what brings you joy, because I think the things that bring you joy, if you're aware of them, are the things that bring you the inspiration. So you've kind of been hinting on things a little bit here. Like for you, like running, like I know I know you really pursue, you know, um being active and running and balancing that. And I imagine that that is such a you know a mental relaxation for you and also a time where you can kind of just allow ideas to flow and and inspire you, right?

14:44SPEAKER_02:So I'm thinking that's that's one thing that you're doing, obviously. And you mentioned going to exhibits, right? So that's another area of inspiration. Uh getting together communally with people, right? Like like-minded people. Uh, that's another, you know, thought there um that kind of keep us inspired, right? Um, maybe brings more epiphanies. Uh, for me, reading, reading lately has been like that's actually one of my um New Year's resolutions.

15:08SPEAKER_02:I know that's like controversial with some people, but I love New Year's resolutions. Uh and mine this year was just to read more. And and that's like actual books in my hand, and it's also audiobooks. So I I kind of constantly have something going in the background. It just really stimulates me. Um I imagine I think you're similar because we talk about books a lot. Like you just you mentioned something earlier before we came on.

15:29SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I also worry I don't read enough books. Um I tend to jump around, so I I DJ books, but I'm I'm constantly listening to books. So if I'm I'm painting or I'm I'm on a walk, like up on the walk part of the run, I'll listen to a book. And so I've probably got 10 going on, but I I do finish them to my credit. Like I yeah, and I'll re-listen to them. I read something there, there's a very famous, like, you know, short YouTube video out there about how many books you'll read in your life.

15:58SPEAKER_00:And I think most people, it's like a hundred. Oh what? That's such magic. And that's people who read for pleasure, and then there's the people who are like scholastic and obsessed, um, and they might read a thousand. Yeah. Um, and that just seems so stark. I was like, oh, that's so there will be a point where you literally won't be able to read um books. So so then I uh I don't I don't know, not like panic, but I'm like, oh yeah, I haven't read you know such and such yet.

16:25SPEAKER_00:Like I have to read that by now. I can't believe I haven't read that class, you know. So so it's kind of funny, but I I I uh I try not to be like thinking about the quantity and I just try to think about the quality of what I'm reading. Are you jotting things down? Are you jotting ideas down? Yeah, it's been very fruitful. I I started reading in a different way, so I started to read to understand things better. Um and I I've been on a like a mythology kind of uh quest.

16:54SPEAKER_00:So we so we start with the fairy tales. So I have you know, the Grimms, fairy tales, Little Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, um Irish folk fairy tales, fairy tales from the world, Norse mythology. So I just I I I'm kind of combining, you know, dead religions, fairy tales, and and um I I I just noticed I kind of had a big hole with uh Greek mythology and um the Bible. So I kind of I knew the Bible stories, but but mostly from paintings. So I thought I'm gonna read the whole testament, new test, I'm gonna read all of it, I'm gonna read Greek mythology.

17:30SPEAKER_00:Um, and then I realized I just didn't understand the nuances and the subtext a lot, and I just hadn't explained that. So then I went further back and I started reading Carl Jung, um, especially the Red Book, because that's like the most artistic kind of I guess psychology you can read, right? Because it's all about he illustrates his own books, you know. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. So I really enjoyed reading the red book, and then I was like, I have to read all his other books, and then I should probably read Freud, and then I realized that I should read Nietzsche, and then I'm like, they're all just talking about the Bible and Greek mythology.

18:03SPEAKER_00:This is all fan fiction about the Bible and Greek mythology. And um, when I had tried to read those books, they seemed so dry, and um probably also they seemed a bit misogynist. So when I was younger, I wasn't interested in them because of that, you know. So I had to learn to read them um from uh basically now I'm reading Joseph Campbell's work. So I'm I mean from that point of view. So it's this kind of like um, I think we've been talking about this global story of mankind and the hero's journeys, just like you know, yeah, repeated.

18:33SPEAKER_00:And um, and and I'm actually really enjoying the primitive mythology series, which is um incorporating a lot of um archaeology and folklore um together and and world history. And so um I'm I feel like when I go back to reread Greek mythology in the Bible, uh I'm gonna understand it really well this time because um so I had to keep going back. Like I wasn't I realized I hadn't got back far enough. So now I'm really enjoying it. I also read um the uh some English literature.

19:02SPEAKER_00:So I was reading um The Death of Arthur by Sir Thomas Mallory, and I want to read um Spencer's The Fairy Queen. So I just I'm trying to kind of catch up on I guess classic education or something.

19:15SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh that's fantastic. Where how how is it surfacing in the work? Like, is there anything that you could talk about now?

19:21SPEAKER_00:Or oh yeah, a lot of the themes in the poems and a lot of the themes in um the titles or the imagery are all from folklore and fairy tale and religion. But the the what I'm learning is it's all interrelated. You can't get away from it. So they they're all they all have common threads. Yes, they have archetypes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's gonna go back way, way back to like our earliest ancestors, maybe the ancestors who weren't even um Homo sapiens yet.

19:48SPEAKER_00:The ones that were, you know, the prey and uh were afraid of the snakes and the lions and so how are you fitting this in?

19:56SPEAKER_02:So you said you're you're doing the reading when you're when you're actually working, so you're kind of dualistically doing the two things at the same time?

20:03SPEAKER_00:I I have a I as like I as of my own DJ system. So I I only listen to mythology usually in the woods or on a walk. Oh wow. Oh, that's so cool. I don't listen to it in in the studio, and then in the studio I listen to more like things we would listen to, like in our book club, um, you know, fiction, um, art history biography, books, you know, that's so I just love that thought of you listening to mythology in the woods. Like I it has to be in the woods, yeah.

20:29SPEAKER_02:I would think that like really that's like uber inspiring, you know, like like kind of putting your mind on fire there. Like that's fantastic.

20:36SPEAKER_00:Yeah, all times of year, all times of day, and and it means different things in like the summer when it's really hot and it's like early in the morning if the sun's going down and it's all foggy and spooky out, or or if it's winter, you know, you just uh feel it differently depending on the seasons.

20:51SPEAKER_02:Yeah. What is your creative rhythm like? I'm curious. Like I think to be in your tip top creative state, it's it's better to kind of align yourself with your most wakeful hours, right? When are you working?

21:03SPEAKER_00:Um, well, I think that my best hours for working are like the afternoon and the evening and the nighttime. Um, and then I like to I try to get myself to do something during the day. So I'll go out and the daytime's the best time for that, you know.

21:19SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So you're getting up and you're exercising first, I guess, or like what is a typical Teresa day? Yeah.

21:26SPEAKER_00:Um I don't I don't really have a schedule. I think I'll just kind of try to figure out what the best um strategy for accomplishing something that day is. So some days it could be like the whole day is just no painting and just going on a long run, visiting the museums and coming home, and then um maybe pairing that with writing emails, you know, to people. I see. And then if I'm painting, it's it's better not to write emails and not to think about um business too much.

21:53SPEAKER_00:And yeah.

21:54SPEAKER_02:So you follow that kind of chunking method of working where you you group days together of studio versus days together. of office or kind of spread them out?

22:02SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I think so. Yeah. And I if I can, I try to do the office outside the studio.

22:07SPEAKER_02:Yeah.

22:08SPEAKER_00:Outside or in the museum.

22:10SPEAKER_02:So it's more inspiring. So I'm not an early morning person. I have a very hard time getting up early. If I do get up early, it is like it just takes me a long time to kind of ease like I literally need an hour with like coffee just to kind of wake up, you know?

22:25SPEAKER_01:Um the same I thought you were an early person.

22:28SPEAKER_02:I'm not, but I want to I really want to be. So I'm really like actually that was one of the New Year's scrolls that have not really like uh taken a firm footing yet. I would really like to be one of those people that gets up at five or gets up at six like regularly. And yeah, some days I do it, but um frankly it's if I have a good night's sleep. But you know, I can I do often do like my thinking in the morning. I will do that because I do feel like I'm kind of in an in-between state like I'm not alert enough, you know?

22:55SPEAKER_02:So that's when I think the imaging or the you know the uh the idea generation, like that would be a good time for me. That's when I journal mostly when I do journal is in is in the morning, like that whole morning pages thing. I do do that. And I find when I do that it's kind of like um like a compass kind of navigating you. Like you're the subconscious thought that's constantly going in our brain that we're maybe not even aware of like this chatter kind of in the background.

23:21SPEAKER_02:And I think when I write um I kind of like I just put that down all on a page and then it's like right there in front of my eyes and then it's like oh this is what I'm thinking and this is how this connects and this links and this is an idea for this painting. And that is a really good strategy for me at least I I do really love that. And then like studio it's really kind of like a late morning thing because there have to be copious amounts of coffee and then I'll get into the studio probably I don't know if if I'm lucky like 10 sometimes that's pretty early.

23:51SPEAKER_00:Like if I get up at 10 that's an early morning for me. Yeah.

23:55SPEAKER_02:See I had in order for me to like even function I can't like I'm just not a night owl.

23:59SPEAKER_00:Like I can't stay up there's no like my husband will tell you like I'll be asleep on the couch at like you know 9 30 at night like the only time I'll get up early is if I have to for teaching a class a workshop or if I have to get on an airplane. And then the other exception and I do I did this like for a few summers in a row. I was a little bad at it this summer but you know it gets so hot here like over a hundred degrees so if I I try to get up before the sun rises and go on a run and and do my uh shopping and and whatever and come back before 10 because then it's like scorching hot.

24:34SPEAKER_03:Yeah.

24:35SPEAKER_00:And and then I feel great on those days. But I I kind of feel like the sun getting up early and it being hot is what makes that worth it. I wouldn't want to do that in winter, you know so it I think seasonal kind of behavior makes sense.

24:48SPEAKER_02:So that's interesting yeah.

24:50SPEAKER_00:But I I can be a morning person.

24:52SPEAKER_02:It is nice but right when that happens um but it sounds like you you kind of you put that physical part first which is fantastic and then you kind of ease your way into the studio as the day progresses right so so afternoon and then evening you you also paint in the evening you said yeah I mean if it's like winter um I'll just go paint right away and then I'll try to do something and then paint some more. And what about the idea generation? When is that happening?

25:20SPEAKER_02:Is there less set time that that's happening? I think that's all the time it's a constant oh that's interesting.

25:25SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah usually I get ideas that just pop into my head um kind of during leisure activities or just random times. So I don't try to have the idea generation time at all. I just are you thinking about like are you writing them down?

25:38SPEAKER_02:Like how is how does that work? Like when you're when you're painting and all of a sudden something strikes you do you have a notebook right next to you?

25:43SPEAKER_00:Are you putting it if it's in the studio what I do is I I try to have some blank canvases around of different sizes and I'll just draw the idea on the canvas. Oh that's awesome. And it's got a canvas it's reserved you know so yeah um but if I'm not in the studio then I can do a drawing in one of my notebooks or on an iPad or iPhone if if you really don't have a drawing material on you. And then you can also just write uh instructions that that also works.

26:13SPEAKER_00:Yeah getting the idea down in like an instruction of how to do it.

26:16SPEAKER_02:Yeah oh that's fantastic. Yeah I think that's really important to keep that to grease the wheel you know to grease that the creativity you know that's that's really important to always have kind of a backlog of of ideas you know to get working on instead of going in search of ideas, right?

26:30SPEAKER_00:Which uh I I find I always have a backlog but sometimes if you take too long uh to get to it you might not be inspired to do it anymore. Yeah. There's that searching process constantly even though you have things that you should be doing just called procrastination.

26:46SPEAKER_02:Well one thing that we talked about that day at the National Gallery we talked about um kind of the opposite of what brings you joy is is what sucks joy away right so one of the things that we talked about was like the algorithms right like as far as creatives right and having to to live in this environment where we're uh you know uh selling our work online and and selling our image you know our our persona right so to speak and and constantly having to kind of chase the algorithm that's definitely something what what what are your thoughts about that?

27:17SPEAKER_00:Yeah I I I have to say I'm not that good at the algorithm.

27:22SPEAKER_02:No.

27:23SPEAKER_00:But I've noticed when I've tried to be good at it it's taken the joy away. Yeah but I think fortunately because I'm not very good at it there's very little difference between me trying and not trying. Yeah. So then I'm like well I might as well just have fun yeah in a way creative I might as well be creative basically. Right.

27:39SPEAKER_02:Like you're not allowing like their you know their algorithms to at all dictate how long your videos are that you're making these art movies and none of this stuff, right?

27:48SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah and I also seem to be incapable of making like a four second turns it to four minutes. Right. Oh my God. That doesn't work so I'm just not good at it. But um I mean I I think it's possible to have a career without gaming the system algorithm or whatever, right? Yeah we we survived before social media.

28:12SPEAKER_02:Right. Well and I think the algorithm kind of promotes this kind of smoke and mirrors thing on social media where like you see you you get pushed in front of your feed you see these artists that seem to be like really making it and really making money at least they say they are right and they're you know they're this real and they're like they're pointing you know they point uh you know to text below their you know their picture check this out for these steps to do XYZ and you know to get the algorithm to run for you you know and it seems to me like every time I go and I click on those people's pages, those people are not selling artwork.

28:45SPEAKER_02:They're selling like mentoring for artists, right? Like it's they're not you know they're not actually doing what they're what they say they're doing, you know, which I find really interesting.

28:54SPEAKER_00:Yeah and I read about as one of those quotes that I'm sure we all know but it was like more people made money selling shovels to the gold rush diggers. And and and of all those gold rush diggers like only a few got to be rich. Like most of them ended up in rack and rude you know but but it's like if you were selling them the shovels or taking them on the tour of the gold mine prospecting region or I've never heard that that's so awesome. Yeah there's more money to be made in in and selling the the the gold digging equipment than to to be the gold digger.

29:25SPEAKER_00:Yeah to sell to the dreamers I guess that's what it is right like yeah sell sell sell a dream yeah or just or just you know whatever they call coaching you know um yeah I'm gonna think about that and it's like I mean I think we all had coaches when we were kids but how many of us actually became Olympians you know right swim team but is there's nothing wrong if if you doesn't mean that like like you're not in trouble if your mentee doesn't succeed though.

29:53SPEAKER_00:So so it's a great job. Yeah yeah it oh you're right oh I had never thought of it like that you can't fail you know it's but it's not a bad thing to to be coached either you just have to understand what you're being you're you're being sold you know I guess yeah what's another thing what's another kill joy for you creatively um I have a couple of things here that I'm thinking like well I think I think for me it's and like you know I think the the bigger thing about the social media I think it's great the modern technology um but there is the danger of getting overwhelmed or distracted and um so so the the the thing is is like you have this idea and then you're just you keep not doing it because you keep getting distracted by things that aren't making the idea and so you have to just go to your studio and sit down and paint the idea.

30:41SPEAKER_00:And so that the sad thing is when you realize you haven't done it. Yes. And you're like what I've been chasing something else or you know I've been distracted or arguing about something online with someone or whatever it is, you know um that that to me is kind of sad. Yeah like you what is it like like you see the person you could have been and and you're not going to be scared. You know so so it's like that that seems to be what that would be ultimately a a joy killer um to to not using the tools properly and getting a little too distracted.

31:13SPEAKER_02:That's making me think of that book by um the the author of Epre love and she wrote that that book about magic. The whole the whole point of that book and I'm gonna have to insert that here um the whole point of the book is that you know you have to kind of be open to inspiration. And then when inspiration comes along it kind of it kind of almost it's like a muse it want to work it wants to work with you. It kind of plants a little idea in your head and then if you don't do anything with it somebody else will right it'll go and it'll tell somebody else your idea and I think about that all the time.

31:44SPEAKER_02:I think that's so interesting because so many of us are are eating and kind of absorbing the same inspiration as far as like social media now which is really first of all it's kind of crazy um if you think about it that you abdicate your creative control to an algorithm right that you're allowing the algorithm to only put out to put things in front of you and from that you're basing your work and your whole like even concept of the world, right? Like what the algorithm is putting out which is like a fraction of like you know life.

32:13SPEAKER_02:That in itself is just kind of nuts. But um you know so many of us were so connected now that we are kind of seeing the same kind of things all the time in our feed you know and so then there are people that are kind of working along the same field, doing the same thing, seeing the same inspiration and then and then it's natural that they're gonna have you know they're gonna be inspired in a similar way. And so then you're kind of like wait a minute that was my idea you know like you'll see things like that.

32:38SPEAKER_02:She says in her you know in her book she's like well it's because you didn't do anything with it. You didn't do anything with that inspiration and the muse took it away and gave it to somebody else which I think is so fascinating. You know?

32:47SPEAKER_00:Well actually yeah well um I think you know one of the reasons that like maybe my social media could be better um and and why some people's are really good is I think that um it it really wants you to kind of give away all your thoughts, personal life, um your ideas, you know so I think that some artists are um more sharing with their studio or their ideas or the reference and uh that others uh like me, I I would probably um sometimes I won't even post a work until it's done and I've been for years.

33:23SPEAKER_00:So I I try not to share too much of my like inner workings. Um I try to just share the product. Yeah I understand that yeah or the the the the kind of some of the the stuff around it. But maybe that is um that that could be a cautionary tale to not share your ideas before you've made them. Yeah that could that could be a maybe and I could see how that could be a problem because you're like well I need to post something and I want to look interesting.

33:52SPEAKER_00:So yeah but but you gotta remember you're you're an artist you're not an idea giver. But I I don't know I mean some people would I I know some people go the opposite way and um they'll just say they'll just copy whatever they see. You know they'll just copy they they don't try to come up with too much of their own um and they'll be like well it's all what is it? It's all remix anyway. So so everyone has different strategies I suppose but I I definitely was raised and um try to practice having uh something of a personal um life that that's not on the internet.

34:26SPEAKER_02:Well that's really smart.

34:27SPEAKER_00:And then it foods your ideas artistically I guess right yeah um that might be something you could do to not feel like oh someone took my idea I guess. Yeah.

34:41SPEAKER_02:But it is kind of interesting though because it is I think it's like a I think the term for it is like tangential thinking or something where people on the periphery of certain you know common kind of uh areas, you know, so like like where they overlap the people that are on the on the edges of that often get inspired by the same kind of things because they're seeing the same kind of things and they're seeing the same kind of patterns. So it happen it happens in science.

35:05SPEAKER_02:You know it happens in like all fields where you have you know not not one inventor. You have many people that are kind of inventing the same thing at the same time because they're kind of getting inspired by the same thing. So I you know I think it's happening probably a lot more with social media that that's an interesting thing. I think another thing about you know as far as things that kind of kill joy going back to that theme. Another thing that social media does is this it forces this comparison or this self-criticism to kind of surface in us, you know?

35:32SPEAKER_02:Um which I think is kind of interesting. I think you know that the comparison comparison is the thief thief of joy literally right isn't that isn't that that famous quote and so um so I think we have to kind of almost guard ourselves unless you're comparing yourself and you're like ha I'm better.

35:48SPEAKER_00:Well I'm just but I I would imagine some people enjoy comparing themselves.

35:53SPEAKER_01:Right.

35:54SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah whether it's to who they were 10 years ago and like I paint so much better or yeah or maybe it's maybe you know it's a bit of a oh wow I uh won that competition or I don't know but like I I would imagine like the reason people love comparing themselves is because sometimes they are favorably um comparable right right so I don't I don't know if like you should never compare because then you're not going to want to grow or expand and I I do think that a lot of um progress is driven by like a dissatisfaction or feeling like something could be or changed and solving that and presenting your new solution and then um yeah well that goes back to our conversation we were talking about the the book that I was reading with Eckhart Toll right with ego about ego and being aware of ego when ego surfaces and that and you said you were like well then what's the point of you know improving yourself or going to school you know if you're like aware that you're like lacking and that's ego you know why why do anything you know so I yeah that's an interesting point there.

36:56SPEAKER_02:I don't know like it I think you have to be careful. You just have to be aware of it. Just like when you're working with photography you have to be aware of the limitations of photography. I think you have to be aware of the limitations of social media and what it isn't.

37:07SPEAKER_00:It reminds me a lot of like the emperor has no clothes, you know like social media says it's something but it really it's really something different you know yeah it's it is a tricky thing because it you feel like you understand the news of the world or the currents in the art world or how someone's doing in their life but then there's all sorts of factors like you did smoke and mirrors that those those perceptions might not be true. But at the same time you feel better for knowing those things.

37:33SPEAKER_03:Yeah.

37:34SPEAKER_00:Maybe things would be I mean as as much as a gatekeeper the algorithm on social media could be that there was a time when there were fewer openings and and more gatekeepers props.

37:47SPEAKER_03:Yeah.

37:48SPEAKER_00:Maybe an artist didn't have as as much of an ability to represent themselves. You know so I think some people have argued that the social media helps people who have a little more of a quirky or individualistic style. It helps them find their people um that might not be in their own region or hometown but are are spread out um different countries like that they can have a career then it's it's not just like everything is white bread or something.

38:14SPEAKER_00:It's like well this this is the only thing that sells in this town so you have to paint this thing.

38:19SPEAKER_02:So there could be uh some benefits to it you know like you say it's nuance you just have to be willing to be uh jerked around a bit emotionally or the other side of that though that I think that I've been thinking about a lot more is that sense of comparison that we do with the social media kind of leads to possibly a lack of of self-confidence, you know? Because you're never gonna be like you're never quite where you want to be you know and I think that victory kind of favors the bold right for sure.

38:47SPEAKER_02:You know what I mean? And you see artists that are like really really bold and really doing things in their in their careers and yet they're really lacking like you know probably on what like we would consider maybe basic skills but it's not limiting them in any way because they're just bold and they're just kind of going for it. You know so there's something to be said about that about you know about about confidence.

39:08SPEAKER_00:Yeah well it's why I think that you have to separate the business from the art making. So you know when you're at the easel you're just kind of carrying out the idea then when you're away from the easel that you can just go apply for a bunch of shows or something. No. Yeah that's really smart yeah and um or or uh apply for an exhibition maybe even that's good advice I really like the idea if you haven't quite finished the pieces yet um you will by the time the show you know you you can just uh be more bold when it comes to the writing part yeah it's like two different uh brains like you're you're the boss and you're the yeah you're the creative and and the yes yes yes yes yeah one takes care of the other shields shields one part of you from you know like when you're when you're creating right that's that's probably not the time when you're like gosh this tube of pain is expensive or uh yeah I should I should be out doing something else you know yeah you just have to be making the work and then um when you're when you're doing business stuff it your uh your sense of like well I'm not good enough uh is is not going to help.

40:19SPEAKER_02:So yeah that's really interesting. So maybe maybe the key there is siloing your time uh so that you really are breaking things up. I I I like that a lot. You know, you know I know that intellectually like I know that that's like a really good practice but you know most days for me uh sometimes devolve into like a checklist of of things like you know fix up this part of the painting and then you know put this on the you know my website and you know load this and look like sometimes I don't have that clear definition between the you know my business tasks versus my creative tasks.

40:52SPEAKER_02:Um so that's a good reminder you know because uh it could be easy for it to overlap into each other and and affect affect each other you know so yeah I think that that's that's interesting. Yeah but I I do think it comes down to like you have to be making work frequently and which goes back to your original thing about that you have nothing to to promote you know yeah or you have you have a lot to promote about right you know because then yeah like just the other day I was just thinking about how often people are kind of showing up on social media on Instagram how often like these these artists that um that have huge followings like how often they're posting and some of them seem to be posting really often you know so it seems to be like they're coming at it with a real conscious approach.

41:38SPEAKER_02:I have to do X amount of posts per per week you know kind of like to feed the algorithm like it feels deliberate you know yeah whereas um I don't know I don't have the uh the bandwidth or the uh interest you know to do that at the moment and probably I don't know I don't know that I ever will you know so it's it's kind of that thing it's like uh I think if you have a lot uh what they call content like if you have a lot to say and you have maybe a show coming up and you have um all these new paintings then it would be to do that.

42:07SPEAKER_00:Um but if you're having a hard time with that it might mean that you haven't made enough new work or yeah I think you're right. Yeah you haven't got a show or a book or whatever it is that you're yeah wanting to share with the world. Because that's what promotion is for, right? It's it's to promote, I suppose in business terms it would be the product, but but it's whatever it is you're creating, you know so so maybe that symbiotic relationship is off and you don't have enough new pieces or you're not driving at a theme or a series or um you know maybe maybe you feel like the pieces need to be exhibited in in in a real place not just on the internet or maybe you find something on the internet and that's why you have that structured plan.

42:44SPEAKER_00:Like I don't I don't know but maybe um again it's it's leading back to not enough time in the studio.

42:50SPEAKER_02:Right, right. Yeah going back to your original statement about about aligning your life so that you're creating as much as possible and everything. Yeah.

42:57SPEAKER_00:Yeah I know um I have times when I'm trying to promote a show and then there'll be some travel workshops and maybe I just finished some other paintings and I made a movie. It's like it's very easy to post because you feel like oh I should have promoted that and I forgot. Oops you know and then there'll be other times where maybe you're just creating and it seems quiet but it's not there's a lot going on under the surface and maybe maybe that would be a harder time to post about stuff because you're like well I'm not ready to share that yet.

43:25SPEAKER_00:Right. So I don't want to share that. So I could see how like there would be um ups, highs and lows maybe and in what you were sharing.

43:33SPEAKER_02:Teresa tell me about what's on the horizon for you because I know you have something exciting coming up.

43:38SPEAKER_00:Yeah so on March 2nd in Washington DC I'm gonna be having a show at the Touchstone gallery on New York Avenue.

43:46SPEAKER_02:That's great.

43:47SPEAKER_00:And how many pieces do you expect to have I think there'll be about twenty pieces.

43:52SPEAKER_02:That's great. Is there gonna be an opening that people can attend yeah the opening's on March 2nd.

43:57SPEAKER_00:Great and anything else coming up in the future that you

44:00SPEAKER_02:Like to share?

44:01SPEAKER_00:So I have a workshop coming up. It's going to be in um Alexandria, Virginia at the Art League, and it'll be painting flowers and oils. And that'll be March 19th and 20th. And I also have a workshop in Arlington, Virginia, that's going to be painting pastries and flowers. And that'll be that's going to be cool.

44:26SPEAKER_02:Yeah.

44:27SPEAKER_00:March 30 and 31st. And oh, actually, I've got one in April that's called Painting Chickens and Flowers. Um, so we've been using live chickens, we'll be on a farm. Oh wow, that's awesome. Yeah. So those are all on my website on the workshop tour tab. But I'm I'm looking forward to teaching those workshops. And usually when I'm teaching a workshop, it's usually because I'm doing a lot of flower or bird or pastry painting. So um I've been uh working on those subjects a lot.

44:55SPEAKER_00:So it's fun to kind of uh take the new skills and things I have and go share them and and perform sort of in public that way. That's so cool.

45:06SPEAKER_02:I particularly love the pastries. That sounds awesome.

45:09SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I actually I'm thinking about I I think there will, I don't know what day, but there's going to be a pastry painting show I'm gonna put on at uh a local art school I teach at in Arlington called Art House 7. So we'll have a reception with a bunch of pastry paintings and it's to kind of uh share the work and like a meet and greet. Yeah. Um, there are a lot of artists and um people who attend the school and teach there in the area, so it will kind of be uh it's a small uh place, so um it'll be kind of homey and um packed, I think.

45:44SPEAKER_02:But I can't wait for that. That's gonna be awesome. I'm trying to think of the paintings that you have already with the pastry theme. You have the one with the large with the shark, right?

45:51SPEAKER_00:Yes, and then there's uh ones with uh birds like with the birds kind of coming out of cakes. So I'm working on one like that right now, and it's uh we are just three multi-layer cakes with cardinals on them, and then they're floating in the middle of a sort of uh floating garden with lily pads, and then there's koi. So sort of a lot of interesting greens and oranges and pinks in that painting that's kind of fun. Oh, that sounds wonderful.

46:19SPEAKER_02:I love it. That's great. Oh well, Teresa, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been great catching up with you again. Looking forward to seeing the new work and and going to that opening when you have it.

46:30SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, two different openings. I uh I definitely want to have more openings, uh more frequent.

46:35SPEAKER_02:So yeah, and it's impressive, guys, when you go see a Teresa Oaxaca opening. I mean, she works very large, so it's really captivating. Will you have a lot of large pieces at these openings?

46:45SPEAKER_00:Um, there'll be a mix. And yeah, we are just talking about the sort of the blues from you know, maybe just being on the internet too much and and staring into a phone screen and that feeling like you can do everything, but you're not doing anything. So, so going to do things in real life, whether you're attending or you're posting or you're teaching or you're studying, like whatever it is, I think they're equally beneficial to counterbalancing that uh effect where it's like you you literally can know and do anything on the computer, but but but what are you doing in real life?

47:17SPEAKER_00:That's how you judge yourself, I think.

47:19SPEAKER_02:That's perfect, Teresa. I I think we can end the podcast on that note. Bye everybody, and thanks for for listening. Um, we'll see you soon. Bye. Bye-bye. Being aware of what sparks joy and inspires you is crucial to enjoying a long and productive career as a creative professional. For me, having deep and intellectually stimulating conversations with other artists is definitely something I enjoy greatly. Like my conversations with Teresa. Here are some productivity takeaways Teresa left with us that you can start applying today to your own creative practice.

47:53SPEAKER_02:When you come home from an art opening or museum exhibit, channel that inspiration you've gathered into your work. Change into your studio clothes and get right to it. Teresa shares that being prolific is really all about managing a schedule. The things that bring your joy are often the things that bring you inspiration. So pay attention to what sparks it. Teresa will often reserve certain book topics for special occasions or for certain parts of her day.

48:20SPEAKER_02:Reserving, for instance, her mythology and fairy folklore for her nature walks and saving other titles for when she's working in the studio. Teresa advises to creatives to not give into social media and protect your nascent work and inspiration. However, Teresa also admits that sometimes it is helpful to talk about your future work, perhaps privately, because it becomes like a thread pulling you closer to the actualization of it. I find truth in both thoughts.

48:46SPEAKER_02:I want to thank Teresa Oaxaca for being my guest on the podcast today. Please see the show notes for more information about Teresa and her work, her current exhibit at Touchstone Gallery in Washington, D.C., which will hang until March 30th, and her upcoming workshops. Before I leave you, allow me to encourage you right now to go make that list of things that spark joy in your life and give you inspiration. Then put it somewhere where you never lose sight of it so you can harness it in your own work.

49:11SPEAKER_02:Thanks to all of you for spending another hour of your day with me. Until next time, creatives, did that go? I think so.

49:52SPEAKER_01:What is this brain? I mean our brain. Our brain doesn't know what's going on.