Other Than Expected: Fabian Bircher on Combining Art, Architecture, and Code

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1. 

   S3 · E13 · 15 Jul 2026 · 37 min

   There Is No Neutral Design: Megan Kasselberg, Senior UX Writer and Content Designer, Material Design

   This episode, I talked with my coworker Megan Kasselberg, whose work as a senior UX writer and content designer touches billions of users through the Material Design system. In our conversation, Megan and I dug into the storytelling and strategy that goes into a design system as vast as Material, including the language of guidelines assets, the effect of earnest expression, and how UX writing is changing in an age of AI. Read a full transcript at interfacecafe.com. In the episode, Megan mentions psychologist and behavioral economist Daniel Kahneman , plus a shoutout to our colleagues Rux and…

2. 

   S3 · E12 · 17 Feb 2026 · 40 min

   Beyond the Text Field: Louise Macfadyen, Author of Designing AI Interfaces

   This episode, I got to sit down with my friend, podcast cohost on Away from Keyboard , and former coworker Louise Macfadyen as she prepares to launch her new book Designing AI Interfaces with Oreilly this Spring. We had a lot to talk about, from managing the conceptual distance between what AI actually does and what people imagine it can do, to the new skills designers, engineers, and PMs need to work with models, the potential harms of new technology, and some of the patterns designers can use to keep ethics and safety in the loop. Designing AI Interfaces is available from O'Reilly Media…

3. 

   S3 · E11 · 25 Nov 2025 · 43 min

   The Era of the Generalist: Rachel Been, SVP of Design for Expedia Group

   In this episode, Liam speaks with Rachel Been, SVP of Design for Expedia Group, about her journey from photography to design leadership and why she believes this is "the era of the generalist." The conversation unpacks the recent launch of Expedia's new app on ChatGPT and what it means to design for "non-deterministic flows" and "infinite inputs." Rachel explains how AI is breaking old, linear design paradigms and why, in an age of potential "design slop," deep curiosity and human-centered craft are more important than ever. Read a transcript and check out more from me at interfacecafe.com…

4. 

   S3 · E10 · 9 Sep 2025 · 45 min

   Design Can't Rely on Logic: Troy Leinster on Type Design and Human Perception

   In this episode, I reconnect with my former instructor, type designer and design coach Troy Leinster. Troy shares his journey from graphic design to type design, and explains why learning to make letters makes you a better designer. We also dig into the importance of trusting the human eye over geometry, the productive friction of sketching by hand, and how understanding calligraphy builds a stronger perspective on type design. Troy discusses why, in the age of AI, the most important thing a designer can do is put their personal touch on the work.

5. 

   S3 · E8 · 5 Aug 2025 · 43 min

   The User Brings the Confetti: Rob Giampietro on Scaling a Human-Centered Brand

   Rob Giampietro, Head of Creative at Notion and former Design Director at MoMA, returns to the show to unpack the story behind Notion Faces, the popular tool that allows users to create their own illustrated avatar. Rob details the project's journey from a beloved internal tradition to a major public launch, including the pivotal decision to scale with human illustrators instead of AI to maintain the brand's unique, handcrafted quality. The conversation explores how the team shifted its focus from "likeness" to "expression," the power of modularity in design systems, and the research process…

6. 

   S3 · E7 · 1 Jul 2025 · 45 min

   True is Better Than New: David Reinfurt on Evolving Graphic Design Education

   In this episode, designer, educator, and author David Reinfurt returns to the show to discuss his latest book, A *Co-* Program for Graphic Design. Born from a series of lectures delivered remotely, online, and together with collaborators and cooperators, the new book builds on his earlier "spoken" book, exploring some unexpected and intuitive overlaps between design and the rest of the world around us. In conversation, Liam and David cover the power of hands-on learning, the importance of going against expectations as a designer, and the positionality of design—its closeness to everyday…

7. 

   S3 · E6 · 10 Jun 2025 · 55 min

   Material Design Gets Expressive: Inside Google's Emotion-Driven UX Update

   This special episode digs into the latest evolution of Google's design system: Material 3 Expressive . Liam talks with Material Design's Android Product Manager Aneesha Kommineni, UX Researcher Michael Gilbert, and Creative Director Andy Stewart about the team's latest emotion-driven UX update. They reveal how this system is grounded in user research and how it offers both developers and users more flexibility. The group also chats about making design more than objective, connecting to users' emotional landscapes, and driving business outcomes — all while considering tooling, usability,…

8. 

   S3 · E5 · 14 Jan 2025 · 52 min

   Beauty Across the Board: Rich Fulcher on Making Beauty a UX Priority at Google

   This season's special series celebrating ten years since the launch of Material Design closes out with Rich Fulcher, former Google UX director and Material design lead. Fulcher remembers the career-defining journey of creating Material, what it was like to make beauty a UX priority, how to pressure test a system, and what he's learned about world-building across disciplines. Today, he's creating board games, continuing to apply the design-thinking and problem-solving skills developed during his time at Google. Leave us a rating, and subscribe so you don't miss new episodes with creative…