Affordable Computers for Vision Loss

0:01-:A computer or a tablet is such a valuable tool for so many tasks in everyday life. But if you don't have one, are there affordable ways to get one as a blind or low vision user? In this episode, Marci Duty of Computers for the Blind joins us to discuss available options. I'm Ricky Enger, and this is Hadley Presents. Welcome to the show, Marci. Thank you Ricky. Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be here. Yes, it is wonderful to have you.

0:32And you and I met quite some time ago, but we haven't spoken in such a long time and it's really good to now have an excuse to catch up and have you as a guest on our podcast. So for people who don't know you, why don't you just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do with Computers for the Blind?

0:54-:Okay. My name is Marci Doty, as you have already heard, I have been in Access Technology forever for a long time. I currently for Computers for the Blind do customer service and take their orders for anybody who's interested in purchasing a computer. And in 2022 we started training. So when we started training, I was selected as one of the instructors. So I co-construct the that we offer here. That is awesome. And what a perfect fit. So I know that some people know exactly who Computers for the Blind is, and some people really have no idea what the organization is, what it does.

1:37And also a lot of times people hear the word blind and they think, well I'm not eligible because I do still have some vision. And they just sort of stop listening. So hopefully we can put their minds at ease. Why don't you tell us about what the organization is, what it does, and what the eligibility requirements are?

2:02-:So Computers For the Blind was founded in 1995 by Dr. Robert Langford. He thought that every person who is blind or who has low vision should have a computer. So he got some of his friends together and they started collecting computers and at first he was gathering them in his house, then they moved to a church and then they later moved to where we are right now, the location in Richardson, Texas. So we have like a warehouse that houses these computers, computers for the blind partners with corporations like Texas Instruments and General Motors.

2:37And we provide computers to people who are blind or who have low vision throughout the United States in its surrounding territories. We've even sent some to Puerto Rico.

2:47-:Oh wow. Yeah, so not just here in kind of the contiguous US but also a little outside in in those territories and such. That's awesome. And you mentioned that in order to be eligible to be able to purchase a computer, you can be blind or legally blind, is that right? Exactly. Blind or have low vision. And we do require that documentation, so please know that. Yes. And we will definitely get into how a person can qualify and kind of what the process is to get a device a little later in the episode.

3:26But I wanna back up a little bit because I know that people, when they start thinking about getting any sort of technology, there's always that question. I know we get it a lot, you probably do too. What's the best phone? What's the best computer, what is the best thing? And it's never, the question is never what's the best thing for me. And I think that's an important distinction because everyone is a little different, right? Everyone has different needs.

3:58Some people may just need some really good contrast and really good lighting and maybe enlarging fonts and such a bit. Some people do need a more dedicated magnification solutions. Some people are not seeing the screen at all, so they need a screen reader. Are these the kinds of questions that people can call and chat with you about before they ever make any kind of decision about, okay, I am gonna get a computer, I'm gonna get a a, an iPad, or whatever it is.

4:32-:So absolutely, yes. The words personal computer mean just that personal computer. What may be great for me or great for you may be something different that would may be great for another person. So if a person needs screen reading, if a person needs magnification, that is something that they have to determine. And then how much magnification do you need? So that's something that they also have to determine. So if they can see print at approximately maybe four to five times normal and then bring it back to normal, we recommend Zoom text or Fusion.

5:09If they need to raise it up a little bit higher than five, then we recommend listening to the screen reader and letting the screen reader tell you the information that's available to you on the computer.

5:21-:Gotcha. And if someone calls you and they basically say, I have no idea what I need, I have never really thought about this before, I just know that things are getting more difficult, can you help me sort of figure this out? Are there ways that you can talk that through with them, whether it is a recommendation that you make or you know, just chatting through some experiences of other users or however that works? Or is it better if they have some idea of what might work before they call you?

5:55-:So at times I recommend that they download the demos of the Freedom Scientific Programs or Vero programs that we partner with because those are available at 40 minutes and they can start using those programs and see if they absolutely work for them on their computers or on other people's computers. If they check them out for a little while and they find that it's something that they like, those programs can be uninstalled and then ordered from us when they purchase a computer.

6:22-:Gotcha. And so when they do get something from you, let's say I decide, hey, I want to to buy a computer from computers for the blind, is that going to come loaded with demos of all this software or do I select the one that I want at the time of purchase and that's gonna be ready to go for me? So it's gonna be ready to go for you with the one that has been selected at time of purchase. That's why I recommend the downloading of demos to other computers to see how well those programs work for them.

7:00-:Yeah, gotcha. And even public libraries sometimes will have these programs installed on one of their computers. So you can try that. You can see if there is a local Lighthouse for Blind and Low Vision or your state services may have some ideas on places that you could just kind of take those demos for a spin. And if you're thinking, okay, what in the world is Jaws or Fusion or Sparrow or Magnification, any of that, we're happy to talk that through with you as well.

7:34And I think Marci or someone at Computers for the Blind would be happy to answer those questions too. So here's a big thing, and this happens, I mean at least two or three times a week for me and probably for you too, where people call me and they are kind of in that transition process, right? Losing some vision and they're thinking about, okay, I still need to do things. I got my budget that I need to take care of and I need to be able to shop and all of these things.

8:08But I never learned to type. I got my two fingers and I'm Peck, Peck, Peck, you know, looking down at the keyboard and I got pretty fast at it, but never did that Home Row thing. And so they're in that place where looking down at the keyboard is not an option anymore. So are there options for people in that situation? You've gotta learn to type and you're not going to learn to type by looking down at the keyboard and sort of doing that visually, what can people do?

8:43-:So with our computers, there are a lot of people who partner with us to help make this possible for people who are blinded with Low Vision. So we partner with Yes, accessible. So they developed a program called Fun with T Ability that helps you teach, typing or helps you learn the keyboard and also gives you some jokes with fun, fun jokes. At the end of each lesson, we've also partnered with a company called Access Aite and they produce a program called tio.

9:13And that program is also available to customers when they want to learn to type. And both of those programs make it possible for you to learn the keyboard one key at a time to find out exactly how, where those keys are located and how you can use them.

9:27-:And those programs are available. You do partner with these companies so that they can be available if someone purchases a computer from you, but also if someone maybe already has a computer and they're dealing with that need to learn to type, those are still available for anyone to purchase. Is that right? That is correct. And they would have to go to those companies particularly to find out about those programs. But there is a free typing resource that I recommend to anybody who wants to learn to type.

10:05And that's a program put out by the American Printing House, it's called Talking Type. And you can find that online. So I'm happy to provide the URL for them if they just want something that they just wanna try to learn to type.

10:18-:Absolutely. And we will have links to all of those things in the show notes. And let's say that they have chosen to purchase from computers for the Blind and they're ready to learn to type, but sometimes it's difficult to figure out some things on your own, whether that is, okay, how do I even start this program? Or things like that. Or maybe they are ready to purchase a computer and they've chosen say Zoom, text the Magnification software or Fusion, but gosh, I don't know how to use it yet.

10:55So what are the options from that point? You've got the computer sitting here, how does computers for the Blind assist in those situations?

11:05-:So we are very quick to recommend the training that Sparrow puts out. We absolutely recommend that people look at videos produced by Freedom Scientific, audios produced by Freedom Scientific about all of those programs. Since they develop them, they have absolutely developed training for them as well. We have developed a training program that starts with learning the keyboard and then four weeks of learning for week one, windows and Jaws, week two, Microsoft Word and Jaws, week three, Microsoft Internet or Edge with Jaws.

11:42And then week four, the new outlook for Windows with Jaws. So after the four week training course, we have got some students who can definitely accomplish the computer basics and we've trained over 300 students since 2022.

11:58-:That's awesome. And that's exactly what so many people are getting a computer for in the first place, right? Is writing documents with Microsoft Word and browsing the web using Microsoft Edge or whatever browser they want to to use. And so that's definitely some real world Application of the training that we, you know, application of the training because once they learn to use it, they actually apply it. We make people do internet searches and we don't make them do it on the things that we want to find out, but about the things that they want to learn.

12:33If you wanted to learn it, look it up on the internet, that's what we tell them.

12:37-:Yeah, that's what's gonna keep you motivated. Right, exactly. That's perfect. And what about technical support? So I think that is every person's worst nightmare is they get a computer and something happens. And if you're not a techie, you are thinking, well I, I don't, I don't know what to do. Microsoft Word isn't starting or whatever it is. Are there options for support from computers for the blind Blind? So just recently a company called PMA Solutions put out a program called Remote Incident Manager that makes it accessible for people who are blind to control another person's computer.

13:20And we partnered with them and put remote incident manager on all of our computers so our technical support team can connect with them and help them with any technical support challenges that they're experiencing. Our computers are warrantied for a year. So after purchase I advise customers to save their boxes or save their packaging material because first thing we ask to call us if they're experiencing any computer challenges to talk with support.

13:47If we can fix the problem remotely, awesome. They don't have to send it in. The challenge is taken care of and they can go back to using their computers. But if they don't, if we can't fix the problem remotely, then we're gonna ask them to send it to us. We're sending them the label, we're gonna ask them to send those computers to us. We're gonna do our best to repair them. If we're unable to repair them and they're within that year of warranty, the year starts when we ship the computer, then we will replace that computer with another computer, meaning those same specifications.

14:17That's the warranty we give people.

14:20-:Oh, that's great. And especially, you know this, you've done this before, talking someone through a support issue over the phone can be a little bit challenging because you are not right there seeing what's going on and you can't touch the keyboard and and you know, figure out, okay, if I just press this then things will start working again. Being able to do that remotely is such a big thing. So for both support and training, what needs to happen in order for a person to be eligible for that?

14:57Is it a part of the package by default?

15:02-:So if a person is one of our customers and they do choose to elect to take the training, they can do so at no cost because they're our customers. That is what we will offer them. Just recently have we started to make the training available to people who are not our customers and there is a cost for that one. Gotcha, okay. And I imagine that people can learn a bit more about that on your website, is that right? Or by calling you? That's correct. Excellent.

15:29And of course, again, we'll have that info in the show notes. So we've talked a lot about what you do and what happens after you purchase, but we haven't really talked about the purchase process itself and how people get started. So can you just take us through what that process is?

15:52-:So if you'll please remember that all of my keywords have Asian at the end. The first thing we require is an application. It's a very short application that requires us to get your name, your address, your telephone number, your email address, all the great information we need, how you heard about us. And then we require the documentation that tells us that you are blind or have low vision. Then we require compensation, the pricing for our computers, so the payment is provided, then we do the transportation step, we ship the computer to you.

16:28And then recently in 2022, we added the education step. And again, it's application, documentation, compensation, transportation. And in 2022 we added education.

16:43-:Love it. And somewhere in there there's anticipation as you're waiting for that transportation to finish. Exactly. I love it. So this is all amazing. I'm wondering if you can go through and just give us a quick idea of the pricing structure, things like that. I think it really helps people to kind of have a ballpark of here's what's available and here's how much it might cost for me. Absolutely. So our laptops start at two 50 and they go to 435. So the range is two 50 to 4 35, and then our desktops start at 200 and they go to four 50.

17:23-:Excellent. Do you in addition, provide monitors for desktops? Can people purchase those or is that something that they would do separately? So your desktop component comes with the monitor. There are five pieces to the desktop component. It's the tower, the speakers, the monitor, the keyboard, and the mouse. Makes sense. I heard a little rumor recently, and I'm not sure if this is coming or if it's there already, but I understand that you are or will soon be providing iPads, is that right?

17:57-:We are offering iPads. That is correct. I loved your introduction when you said a tablet or a personal computer is something that people who are blind need or may want to consider. Yes, we have iPads available as well. So the iPads sell for $250. We also have a case that comes with the iPad that has no keyboard for 30, and then we have a keyboard case for 60. Ooh, that comes in really, really handy actually. Absolutely. It's good to know. And I imagine that in terms of training for the iPads, I don't know if you're offering that just yet.

18:36I know right now you've got training for jaws and I know Zoom text is coming. What's the status of that for iPads? iPad.

18:45-:The iPad is training is coming as well. Gotcha. And you know the really good news is that with any of this training, if you're getting training from computers for the blind, you can supplement that training with options from Hadley. We do have workshops on setting up your computer to be easier to see and to use with low vision. We also have training for voiceover on the iPad as well as those low vision settings on the iPad. And we have information on using NVDA, which is a screen reader that it's a little different than Jaws.

19:27But the cool thing is that they're fairly similar in terms of keystrokes. So it's nice to have multiple training options because you do one thing and then you go do your homework and like, wait, what was the answer to that? Or I just need to refer to something else as well. So there are definitely some options for you.

19:46-:Absolutely. And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind is that when people are taking this step, whether you have never used technology at all and you're listening to this podcast right now on the phone, or maybe you have used technology, but things have changed for you and you're not really sure about that process of how do I do this with Low vision? How do I do this now that I don't see this screen at all and I'm blind? Well, there are options.

20:20And so as we wrap up, Marci, what would you say to those people who might just be feeling a little bit apprehensive and overwhelmed at the thought of, ah, I know I need to do this tech thing, but I'm a little afraid.

20:33-:I would say, take the plunge. You are not alone. There are always people who will be there to help you. I think I heard a quote that says that nothing can stop a human soul that's on fire. Right? It's always gonna find and spread for people to help them accomplish their goal. So don't be afraid of those computers. We can't really break them and they will. There's so much that you can get out of them once you learn to use them correctly. Thank you so much, Marci. I love that quote.

21:01And I love your enthusiasm too. So people who are listening to you right now are probably feeling a little more relaxed already. Like, Hey, if she answers the phone when I call, I'm all in. So thank you again for sharing what Computers For the Blind is doing. I think it's amazing. We will have that website in the show notes as well as the phone number. You wanna just give that to us real quick as we wrap up?

21:29-:Sure. It's 2 1 4 3 4 0 6 3 2 8 and we are open between 9:00 AM and 6:00 PM Central Standard time. Excellent. Thanks so much for stopping by and I hope you're gonna get lots of calls from excited people ready to dive into those Asians. Excellent. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it so much. Me too. Got something to say. Share your thoughts about this episode of Hadley Presents, or make suggestions for future episodes. We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected].

22:14That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T at HadleyHelps.org or leave us a message at 847-784-2870. Thanks for listening.