#45 - BOBCAT GOLDTHWAIT

0:00I toured as an opening act for Nirvana. Kurt liked my stand-up and wanted to meet me, and they were in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He came in and interviewed me on a college radio station. He had these questions written out on a paper bag. And then he gave me a copy of Bleach, and then my friend Tony and I were in our car going back, and we were listening to Bleach, and we were going, man, this is good, you know? And we were like, man, you know, I'm glad I'm not in a rock band because, you know, you'll never hear from these guys, you know?

0:30I swear to God, because he always reminds me of this conversation. Hello, Bobcat. Welcome to Half the Picture. How are you doing today, sir? I'm okie doke. I tried to get on earlier in my office and it didn't work. So now I'm just in my living room. So that's why it looks like I have a halo, if I put my head in the right way. The great and mighty hero of Bobcat Goldfrey. Yeah. No, I mean, we were saying before we started rolling, but it's such a pleasure to have you on. So, I mean, I've been a fan of yours for a long time. I say this all the time to the pod, but I feel like I'm lucky enough to say it with a lot of the guests we've had on that I have been fans of theirs for a long time. That's good. That makes your job easier. I mean, you know, years ago I was offered to do a chat show and...

1:22Because I did an interview with, at the Paley Center, they did, I did an interview with Robin Williams, who was my friend, and I interviewed him. And then we walked backstage and CBS, I think it was, I can't remember, they offered me a talk show. And I was like, no, you know, they go, well, you were really good at it. And I was like, yeah, because I really love Robin. I can't, you know, I'm not going to talk to a reality star and pretend I give a shit, you know, so.

1:49So, yeah, so it does make it a lot easier when you're a fan or you care about somebody. Totally. Yeah, the passion always helps. And like for your work, I mean, like so we were saying earlier, but like my sort of entry into Bobcat Golf Weights, your sort of world was Windy City Heat, which is just, you know, an incredible comedy. And of course, then all the other great work you've done over the years. I mean, World's Greatest Dads. And then obviously as you work as an actor in stuff like the Police Academy films and Scrooge and your stand-up. I mean, your work has covered so many bases. You've been around so many blocks in the best way. You've done so much. So yeah, no, it really is such a pleasure to have you on.

2:27Well, thank you. I'm a master of none. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting because, like, I make these small independent movies. And a lot of the people that are fans of my movies that I was in in the 80s and stuff have no idea that I direct stuff. And then I'll go to a film festival and they'll be aware of Police Academy and Scrooge and stuff. But they're not... They don't know that I do stand-up, which is funny, you know. So all these different worlds that I travel in, they don't cross-pollinate, you know. I think, like, you know, I think, like, sometimes I think the people that like my...

3:06my standup, they might like the movies. I don't know. I, I, maybe they would. I don't know. You know, I, I, I learned that early on, like when I made shakes the clown, I thought, well, you like this persona that I do on stage. Why won't you like this alcoholic clown movie? And, uh, I learned quickly that they, they were like, what are you doing? You know, I think if I made like a, I think if Shakes was like the persona that I did on stage and in like Police Academy and things like that, I think people might have accepted it better. But when there's this whole, you know, angry clown that was just always drunk and kind of nasty and it screwed him up, you know.

3:50The fact that the movie, you know, it's absurd. It's not joke driven. So if you're sitting there going, wow, I'm watching a noir film in the gritty world of clowns, then maybe it's funny to you. But if you're sitting there waiting for jokes, there's not a hell of a lot in Shakes the Clowns. For sure. But your work has this, as you say, there is an absurdity throughout so much of your work, you know, on screen and beyond, I guess. You know, there's an absurdity about life. There's a, and there's a sort of not taking it too seriously, but also there is a real well of emotion in there. I mean, I think of something like World's Greatest Dad, I mean, which is, you know, such a sort of bleak.

4:32you know, funny premise, but then like so much heart and soul as well. So much emotion. Like I think about like, you know, I guess not to jump into spoilers for World's Greatest Dad too soon, but like, like that ending speech that Robert Williams gives in that film is just, you know, it packs such a punch. I think like, that's something that's to me is apparent across so much of your work, that emotion, but also that absurdity. Well, thanks. Yeah. It's, it's, thank you. I think that like, um, It's Will's Greatest Dad. It was almost like his line where he says, I used to think the worst thing in life is ending up all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people that make you feel all alone. And I kind of started there. And I didn't want it to be a relationship.

5:17movie where he learns like it's a it's a guy or a woman that learns that their relationship is going nowhere i thought well what if you have a relationship with your kid that's toxic that's that's just uh uh so i kind of often will write backwards you know i go oh well that's what this movie's going to be about and and and and how to present it that way and i'm And Sleeping Dogs Lie, which is a very small film, but it did go to Sundance and stuff. That's a movie about unconditional love, and it's about... A lot of them are about kindness in a weird way, but that's why when people say my movies are dark, I'm like, yeah, they are dark, I guess because of the subject matters, but most of them kind of have a...

6:05a little hope in them or a little kindness some some of them are bleak i mean i think god bless america is pretty bleak you know that was like me looking at america and going man it's it's it's it's really fucked up and where is this going and it and it actually got crazier than i than i imagined you know it got darker than i imagined um but um most of the movies are you know are are are a little bit hopeful in a way. Um, and I think, um, I don't know if that's the way I see the world, but I think that's the world I would like to see. I hear that. And I hear that as well. Cause I think, I remember you saying once that like, uh, this was a few years ago now. Um, but I remember hearing you say, um, it was sort of around COVID. They're like the most punk thing you could do is make an upbeat movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

6:55And I wrote like a magical realism script that I'm currently, you know, trying to get going, which I kind of feel will get going. In the meantime, I wrote a actually... I didn't do it because of the box office last week, but I had written a horror suspense film that's still satire, I guess. And then Back Rooms and Obsession happened. So good timing for me, but I wasn't inspired by them. And every time I write a movie, it's always like... It's the thing of, it's the challenge, you know, can I pull this off? That's what interests me in making a movie. It's not, will this get made or will this have an audience or anything? It's more about the challenge, can I pull this off? You know, Willow Creek, which is a scary Bigfoot movie, yeah.

7:59It was really about that there's a scene that's almost 18 minutes long in a tent, and it's just suspense. And I remember watching Tarantino films where there's nothing going on, but I'm at the edge of my seat. And I thought, oh, I wonder if I can do that. I wonder if I could make people feel freaked out and uncomfortable. And I went up to where the Patterson-Gimlin footage was shot, the famous footage of Sasquatch walking away from the camera. And that's all, you know, looks like Abraham Zapruder shot it. That's all crazy. So and I thought, well, I'm going to make a movie. I thought I'd make like a Christopher Guest film where because I went to a Bigfoot conference and I thought this was...

8:44I can have all these comedic people I know would play that. And then I thought, well, this is really low-hanging fruit. It's not like the Bigfoot community needs to be taken down a couple notches. So I thought, you know, maybe I'll make a scary Bigfoot movie. And I was talking to director Joe Lynch, and I go, you know, found footage is always so played out. And he's like, no, you're going to make it, and it's going to be your found footage movie.

9:08And so that's really why I made the movies, because Joe Lynch. But, you know, my problem with found footage is always like, like, who found this footage? You know what I mean? It's like, well, I'm sorry your family got killed, but I really think if we re-edited it, it'd be a tremendous motion picture, you know? So in Willow Creek, there's only 67 edits in the whole film. I mean, the conceit basically was like if you turn on the camera and watch the footage, and that's why you see things repeated and you see, you know, it's... I wanted to have that feel that there's only one thing that jumps a timeline, and that's the opening of the movie. But everything else is just laid out the way it would be if you're watching a camera that you found in the woods. I'm babbling, sorry.

9:53No, it's all good. It's all good. I'm here for it. I mean, what you just said there about how there were so few edits in the movie, we were talking before we started rolling about John Waters. And that reminds me a bit about what John says about Roman Candles, his early movies where like, he didn't know there was editing. He would just like put, because he was so new to it. He would just put the film in and then just like, right, okay, shoot it, sound. That's it. That's the movie. And then you go to the next setup. Yeah. There's, yeah, I, I, At least being on sets, I knew that when I first started directing, that I kind of had the bug to direct, I think, probably before I knew it. My best friend growing up is a guy named Tom Kenny, and Tom Kenny for people – he's the voice of SpongeBob. So, and I met him when I was six years old. There was a, a nun because we went to Catholic school and she was dragging me into like six years old, dragging me into his class. And she's sobbing going, I can't take him anymore and left me in Tom's class. And I was upset. I was like, Oh, you know, cause I got kicked out of my class and I was upset, but he introduced himself at lunch. Cause he thought it was cool that I could make a grown nun cry. Yeah.

11:10We've been best friends our entire life, but in, in, in high school, Tom Kenny had, uh, swear to God, he had Mel Blank, uh, his photo in his locker. Um, and I had Mel Brooks, like, like I didn't know I wanted to be Mel Brooks, but I loved Mel Brooks because I knew that he was the guy that made the producers. But at the same time, when he came on a talk show, he was really exciting and fun. And, um, yeah. And I kind of didn't realize that until later. I was like, oh, I guess we knew what we wanted to be early on. It just took us both a long way to get there, you know.

11:46Yeah. I mean, sticking a pin in that, because I want to combat that, because I'm fascinated by your journey of going from, yeah, like starting in comedy and then moving into film and then directing. But like, did you say, so when you were making Willow Creek, you went to a Bigfoot conference? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went to, I went to a couple, but you know, the, you know, Bigfoot is, it's fascinating to me because it's such a microcosm for our world where people who have the same, almost the same beliefs, but are opposed to each other because they're not exactly the same, you know, and that's why we have, you know, that's why you have war, you know, so like, like, like there's...

12:28Most Bigfoot people believe that Sasquatch has a flathead, not a pointy head, like Harry and the Hendersons. That's some Steven Spielberg bullshit. Bigfoot doesn't have a pointy head. So there was a guy and he had a pointy head at Bigfoot cardboard cutout. And this other guy came up to his booth and he points it and he goes, the guy goes, you disgust me. He's looking at his head. And they start arguing about Sasquatch. So I was like, oh, that's what I was like. Well, maybe there's a thing there. But I love there was once a keynote speaker is going to talk about Bigfoot. And two people before he spoke, the guy starts talking about UFOs. And about a fourth of the Bigfoot people in the room, when the guy starts mentioning UFOs, they all go, oh, oh.

13:25like who is this kook um so i still you know i've thought but i don't think i will i mean it's i kind of make my movies i always say they're like they're like they're like planes that i i land them when they come in you know i land them when the script's in good shape i land them when it makes sense or, um, and, and so I always have a lot of different ideas and I always have a, a, a multiple scripts in different shapes, you know, and I, I think it's probably my ADHD. I have never been the kind of guy who was like, this is the movie I'm making. You know, I don't have a five year plan. This is the next movie. And this is, it would be like, this movie came out of me. And I think, I think my friend Marty has a house that we could shoot it in. That's basically how some of them get made. That kind of DIY kind of attitude lets us go out and do it.

14:20Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I've never had a film 100% greenlit when we started making it. Do you know? I've never had, like, all the money in place or everybody on board. So it's funny. I did a documentary called Call Me Lucky, and my friend Barry Crimmins, who the documentary is about, he's known me since I was 15, and, And he goes, I've never seen you lie until I watched you make a movie. You lie so much. And I lie like, it's like, do you have a permit? Yeah, of course I have a permit. So, you know, because you lie so fast when you're filming. And it's like, well, you know.

15:00But the rest of my life, I try to live some sort of ethics. But when I'm making something, it's we're going to make this, you know, no matter what. You know, like Sleeping Dogs Lie, it was originally called Stay when it was at Sundance. There's a scene where... We went to film in my friend Marty's house and we were, he was one of the producers and it was supposed to be in the garage and his garage was just filled with junk. There was no way to get in there. And so across the street, his neighbor, they had sold the house and the house was empty.

15:33So somehow the lock on the garage fell off. We broke the lock off the garage door and then we loaded the gear in. And the crew was like from Craigslist. They were like students, film students. And I'm like, we got to be really quiet tonight because this is a really heavy scene for the actors. And Ian Takahashi, who is the DP, he goes, you don't have a permit again, do you? And I go, I don't know whose fucking house this is, man. Yeah. So we shot the whole scene and then we loaded it out. And as the sun was coming up the next day, a moving truck pulled in, a moving van. So it was kind of beautiful. We just sat there and laughed while we watched people unload and moved into this house.

16:20Yeah, even working with Robin Williams on World's Greatest Dad, there's a scene where Robin's, if you didn't see it, I'm not caring about spoilers. My movie's been out for a long time, if you see it. But so Robin's son is a pervert, and he dies. And I thought... While we were filming, I was like, boy, he gets over his son a little too fast, the death. And so I added a scene where Robin's at a newsstand and there's all these porno mags and he bursts into tears. And that was the scene we didn't have permits for because I'd come up with a night before and we didn't have permits. And Robin's like, so what do we do if the police come? I go, run, you know, like Ed would. But yeah, I was like, you know, they're going to go. Are you Robin Williams? So.

17:08So, yeah, that was a quick scene that was just thrown into the movie. And Chris Novosovic from Nirvana is actually the newspaper vendor because we shot it in Seattle. And I toured as an opening act for Nirvana, which is always weird for people. And I called up Chris and I said... hey will you be in this movie and he's like why and I go because you're funny and he's like I am and I'm like yeah you are so he's in the movie and when Robin's character he's the newspaper vendor and when newsstand vendor and when Robin's crying he comes over and gives him a little hug which was pretty funny and gets a laugh in the theater so Yeah, that is right, because I remember you saying that you toured of Nirvana back when, yeah, it was obviously Kurt Cobain, and it was their last tour, I want to say. Is that right? Yeah, it was their last tour. I met Nirvana before they were famous. Kurt liked my stand-up and wanted to meet me, and they were in Ann Arbor, Michigan. So he, the promoter, arranged it. So he came in and interviewed me on a college radio station. He had these questions written out on a paper bag.

18:16And, um, and then he gave me a copy of Bleach and, uh, and then my friend Tony and I were in our car going back to the airport and we were listening to Bleach and we're going, man, this is good, you know? And we're like, man, you know, I'm glad I'm not in a rock band. Cause you know, you'll never hear from these guys, you know, I swear to God, cause he always reminds me of this conversation. And then about a little more than a year later, I was opening for them on tour with the In Utero album. Wow. And what was that like? I mean, I imagine the crowds was to be interesting. I mean, you know, working up the crowds for their shows. Yeah, I mean, the crowds most of the time didn't like me, but I was at that point in my career doing stand up that that didn't bother me. You know, so I kind of like to agitate the audience.

19:06So about every third show would go well in regards to that I would get laughs and not get hit with anything. But a lot of the shows, there was like, you know, an M80, you know, an... Do you know what that is? It just... It's like a gun? It's like an eighth of a stick of dynamite and it blew up. So, yeah. So, so, um, it was pretty fun. You know, I had front row seats to this. Well, I was on the side of the stage watching this thing that, that even when I was watching it, I felt, well, this is never going to happen again. You know, there was an urgency to the performances and stuff. So.

19:45Yeah. I feel pretty lucky. You know, I really like Kurt. He was very sweet. We spent a lot of time on the tour, just hanging out, the two of us talking and stuff. So that was, I've had a very like a Forrest Gump kind of zealot, like, existence where I've had these relationships with some iconic people. And only now do I realize, wow, that's pretty cool. Because at the time, it was just somebody who I liked, and I liked his music, but I kind of liked him more.

20:23And now later on, I was like, oh, yeah, now I get it. Why kids were crying at the shows. For sure. I mean, I did want to ask because I know you guys sort of became quite close on that tour, I want to say. I mean, what was Kurt like as a friend on that tour, that experience? Well, I thought he was like, he was... Like I said, I think he was funny. I don't think... I remember he said, teenage angst has paid off well, now I'm bored and old. And he's like, you know, I just thought that was a really funny line and everybody reads into it as if it's really profound and heavy. But, you know, we got along and...

21:02I think he dropped his, his guard around me. So, um, that was pretty cool. I thought, you know, so it wasn't like, uh, um, I don't know. It's just two, two, two grumpy guys. I guess that would be it. Yeah. Well, and he was a fan of your standup. That was kind of how he got in touch. She was, cause he was a fan. Yeah, because they... In fact, when I first met the band, Dave Grohl wasn't in it, but later on, Dave talked about how when they were living in an apartment together, they had three albums. One was an album of music from Divine...

21:45And I can't remember what the other one was in my stand-up. And they would listen to that. That's the only thing they had on vinyl. In fact, when I was touring and Dave was in the band, if I did old material, he'd be like, that's old. And I'd be like, why don't you guys make another album? Interesting. I mean, I actually, I've had to ask, like, Kurt interviewed you on like a college radio using these questions like on a paper bag. Do you remember what he was asking you at your sort of entry point? No, but I remember that it just digressed to he and I making fun of Grateful Dead, basically. And this was back when I would do my interviews still in character. So here I am like, you know, doing this, this Grover sounding voice and there he is mumbling. So I would love to hear a recording of it.

22:34Well, I did want to ask about the stand-up and that original character of yours, because it's such a, it has become, it's taken on an iconic status, I think, over the years. I mean, it's a character that you performed, you know, adapted to Police Academy when you came in as Zed, and you were doing it before then on television and on stage. I mean, and you just said that Grover was kind of like in the background of it. I did want to ask, like, where did the character come from for you? It is funny. When I met Grover, I did have an epiphany where I was like, wow, this might be where I got my act, you know? I met Grover when I was directing the Kimmel show, and he was a guest one day. And when he was like, you know, when he said, hello, Bobcat, I was like, oh, my God, this was probably where I got this persona. And not knowing it that much. But, you know, it was much easier to be somebody else on stage than myself. All my comedic heroes, I mean, well, not all of them, but most of them, be it Andy Kaufman or Groucho Marx or anybody, they switched into this other thing. And I kind of liked having a persona because I didn't like to... I wouldn't say things that I didn't believe in, but at the same time...

23:49I didn't really care too much if people thought I was crazy or not or knew anything about me one way or another. I actually do think the movies that I make kind of reveal more about how I see the world than my stand-up might even be. It's way more personal. than the things I say or do on stage. I mean, my act now is a lot of storytelling, and I write jokes still, but, you know, it's really hard, like, in the States, you know. It's, like, because of MAGA, you know, like, you'll have, you know, I'll be in the Heartland performing, and there'll be people with the red hats, and, you know, I used to do, I used to kind of dance around it, like I do kind of Trump jokes, but I'm kind of over that now. Like, I'll just go out and say...

24:36I think the left is, has comparing Trump to Hitler. I think that's very unfair because Hitler never raped children. And, um, like, I'll open the show with that. So, yeah, You know, I just want to thin out the herd really quick. It's funny, I think Tom Kenny said that he said that I probably lost interest in stand-up because I couldn't, you know, when I came out in this persona, people didn't know what was going on, this guy, you know, because I'd be playing like a club and I wasn't the headliner and this guy came out and they were going, what is going on?

25:17And he said I start... He thinks I kind of went to movies because then I could still... You know, I could still freak people out, but not... Because you sit in a movie and, you know... My stand-up was always I would go out and dig a hole. And I think a lot of my movies start that way, too, where I dig a hole. There's a tiny bit of bestiality and the thing for me is can I... can I make a movie where this happens? And then by the end, you're emotionally concerned about this person's life. And that's, and that's, and that's, that's always the challenge. Like I dig a hole and then I say, well, will you still follow the story? You know, I've, I've written one movie that's not like that, but most of the time I'm, I don't mean to be like, I'm not like, hey, I'm edgy, but just the things that interest me kind of always pushed it. But I don't, that's not my desire to be someone that pushes it. It's selfishly when I make stuff, I'm the first person I'm trying to entertain.

26:33well as we're touching on world's greatest dad i mean you're because i think it's it's um quite well known that you had a long sort of standing friendship and working relationship with robin williams who obviously is the star of that film and yeah he came he came on board because he loved the script and you guys had obviously known you for years and that movie now being nearly 20 years old if you can believe i mean i did want to ask like as someone who is a collaborator robins and a friend like what was it that made robin so special uh to you and and you know it's funny i i Well, he read the movie and he thought he was going to help me out and play like the principal at the school and help me get it going. But when he read the script, he, you know, he came back and he's like, you know, hey, can I play Lance? You know, the lead. And I was like, well, I wouldn't have written a movie for you and make you an English teacher. I think he did that pretty well already. But he, a poetry teacher. And so. Yeah.

27:26So I was flattered and I was excited that he came on board and I was able to shoot the movie on film because Robin was involved. But I think I took it for granted because I really took it for granted how talented he is as an actor. I mean, I knew he was a great actor. I always thought he was a great actor. But the fact that he gave his... He put his talent into that movie was such a gift. And I'm only saying this now because recently I saw that movie with an audience and I was watching the first 10 minutes were really upsetting for me. It was really hard to watch Robin. And then, and then eventually I started watching him and I was like, man, he's, he's so good in this movie. He really did such a great job. And I felt a sense of gratitude and felt really nice that my friend gave me this present. And then, And it was interesting because then during the Q&A, people were saying, oh, I really like this part. And I was like saying, well, thanks. I didn't write that, you know, because the bad poetry that the kids read, I go, well, I didn't write that. My ex-wife wrote that, you know, and And it changed my perspective on the whole experience where I was like having this real Capra kind of moment, you know, where I'm like, man, I've been really lucky to have so many people believe in me and show up and contribute, you know, so.

28:55So what started off being really, really hard, you know, watching Robin turned into a really good experience. So now I can watch that movie or deal with that movie and not remind me of the sadness of losing my friend. You know, and I still think about him all the time. I talk about him all the time. Um, uh, he, you know, he, he, he, you know, we were just really close and, and I, and I miss him, you know? And I think, um, it's interesting when you're talking about Kurt, you know, I, I think one of the things those two people had in common, although I was much closer to Robin, I just knew Kurt.

29:36It was, um, I do feel that both of them, um, um, could unplug around me and didn't have to, uh, you know, you know, there's this fallacy that Robin was always on and, um, that's not the Robin Williams I know. Um, and, and no one wants to hear that by the way. And that's okay. I know that's the fantasy. I know that's the idea of, um, And he perpetuated it. If you met him in a restaurant or a supermarket, he wouldn't be in a supermarket, but if you met him in a toy store, he would be on, you know, but he could be himself around me, and that's the person I miss, you know, the person that, you know, one of the things about him is like, when I told him about any of my ups and downs, he always treated them as equal to the, the things he was going through, which, you know, on a global level, you know, his, his ups and downs were news stories and, and, and, And, you know, you're big, you know, and mine were just personal, but he always treated my life and listened to me as if we were equals, which is absurd. But he did, you know, and even comedy, he would treat us like that, which was really funny. But he would kind of. Yeah. I mean, that that that's that's pretty sweet. That's pretty nice.

31:00Well, that was what was so nice about watching back, like the press you guys were doing for World's Greatest Hour when it came out, like the fact that you guys were clearly so close and were like, you know, on that, you have a sort of banter and a kind of completely level playing field. And you're just bouncing off each other. It was just wonderful to see that friendship. It'll be funny too, because we would, yeah, we would be trying to make each other laugh. And it was really nice that we had each other in life. And then when we went out and promoted that, yeah, yeah.

31:28I miss my friend, you know, and I understand that the world misses this icon, but I just miss my friend. For sure. For sure. Yeah. And it reminds me, everything you just said there about his energy and I guess his empathy. It sounds like, you know, the sort of empathy he had. for other creatives and other just other people i mean it reminds me of what because my favorite film of his or one of my favorite films of his is the fisher king with which terry gilliam made which is terrific and and i know that robin felt very close to that film and very close to that performance and and and terry talks about the energy like him and him and robin share like like full of hot air like and they would just be be gone on set and he would just be like coming out of all this stuff at three in the morning on like a night shoot and yeah like When they're naked in Central Park, yeah. You know, it's interesting. Sometimes, like, on World's Greatest Dad, my job was, like, you know, like, there's some scenes where Robin finds his son and the son's dead, and to keep people away from him, you know, just not keep them away from him because he was in a bad mood or something, but just because I knew if he had two or more people, he would...

32:40He would probably lean into cheering them up or performing for them. So I remember he was just sitting by himself, and I was like, no, Robin's going to sit over there in that corner, and let's just, no talking to him for a few hours while we shoot the scene. Yeah. Some days it was just crazy because all the comedians I knew would be in one scene. And it was just like, it was really funny. There's a scene where Tom Kenny and my friend Toby Hess, my friend Tony V and Robin and Jill Talley. And they're all comedians and they're all in the scene. And it was really mayhem. It was really mayhem. And I'm like getting mad. I'm like, guys, come on, we got to be serious. And they're all laughing at me. They go, oh, really? You know, the guy who said the Tonight Show on fire wants a little professionalism.

33:28you know so it was uh it that made me laugh but um yeah so i'm not going to uh change the way that i work i'm going to continue to work with friends and people that i i really love and and and admire you know and some of them happen to be you know robin williams and then some of them are people you don't know but you know uh that that's it's for selfish reasons you know i don't bring everybody on board i mean i have friends that aren't talented and i don't put them in the movies but but i i like to have my friends uh shine yeah yeah i mean and that energy i because something that i quality that i see in so much of your work is that energy and exuberance that comes through in the films that you make and going all the way back to the beginning in your stand-up I mean, and I did want to touch briefly back on that if I may, because like I was watching back some of your early standup and obviously that persona that you, that, that you, that you created and like, and obviously it's, it's, it's hilarious, but like watch back like the, the amount of energy that you're putting into your body and like you're, you're just distorting your face and this voice. And it's so, it's so physical. I was watching, I was thinking like the amount of energy that must take as a comedian on, as a performer on stage. I mean, was that, what was that like? Was that challenging? Was it,

34:41But I didn't think of it at the time, you know what I mean? Like, I was just like, because the people that I admired put out that much energy, you know? So, you know what I mean? Like, you know, if I'm watching like Iggy Pop or somebody that, you know, like, I like that moment where you're watching like a good punk show or a good comedy show where you go, I don't necessarily feel safe, you know? I don't know where I'm going, you know? And that was kind of what I brought to it. But that's what interested me. Again, that's what interested me.

35:11It's funny, I hope to be working with Natalie Palamedis, who's really brilliant. I don't know if you've seen her show or any of her shows, but she had Weir, which won Edinburgh last year. Yeah, a year or two ago. But she's just brilliant. And I didn't realize until I was listening to you that... that she brings that same feeling when, when you're watching her, like you, where you're going, I genuinely don't know what's going to happen next. I generally think she just hurt herself, you know? Um, and then of course when you talk to her, she's all sweet and quiet and stuff. But, um, yeah, I hope to work with her soon. And, uh, and, and my wife Pollyanna McIntosh, that's, that's something I've been working on. So, um, yeah, yeah. So, um, And do you think that energy, that's almost kind of like a punk energy, that kind of unpredictability, do you think that's important as an artist, performer, comic, do you think that's important? Well, I feel like that's what interests me. Again, to be able to bring that to something, even if it's not necessarily...

36:23you know, it's more of a feeling. Like, again, you know, maybe that's back to Willow Creek, why I like that 18-minute-long take. You're sitting there going, I don't know what's going to happen. And it's fun to watch an audience, because sometimes they start getting lulled into it. They get kind of bored, and then there's a big scream. And it makes me laugh, you know, because the first time I saw it with an audience... I was just sitting there, and I had had back surgery, so I was on a painkiller. And I'm sitting there in the audience, and then this thing happens, and the audience screams. And I screamed. And the actress, Alexi, who starred in it, she leans over and she goes, that's you outside the tent, dummy. Sure.

37:15I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know. I forgot. Sorry. You scared yourself. I scared myself, yeah. You know, you've succeeded. You know, the movie's working. I will say that, you know, to people who are making stuff, you know, on any scale, you know, if – if you watch it and you watch it back a hundred times and you still kind of get caught up in it, you just know it's like a song or something. And again, I know my movies don't work for everybody, but if it works for me, when you're still working at it, then it's right. And that's the editing process. You do it over and over and then all of a sudden, okay, now it works.

38:05a sitcom or, or a single camera comedy show, you're kind of just stopping the bleeding. You're going, well, that's funny enough. And that, you know, you know, you're not, you're not, it's not a, it's not a tone, you know? So, so, so that's the thing people should listen to is, you know, sometimes people go, well, I've seen it too much or I've heard it so many times doesn't matter. It should still, it should still kind of work for you, you know? Um, I think that's, that is, I guess it was a lot like writing a song, you know? Yeah. I did want to ask, cause you mentioned the comedian who just won Edinburgh. So it remind me of her name who did Weir? Oh, Natalie Palamides. Yeah. Yeah. So Weir, I think, I think it was this year. I think this is the year before she won Edinburgh. Yeah. Natalie Palamides. Yeah. So, um, we're, we're, we're talking about making something and, and, and I'll be doing that with, uh, with uh Pollyanna McIntosh my wife who folks who if they know her they know her from the evil dead and and uh not the evil dead Jesus of the walking dead sorry um yeah I'm marrying uh Bruce Campbell so um

39:12You know, it's funny because we were talking about ramen and my wife and I eloped when we were driving my pet ducks across the country. And I called my daughter and she's like, are you going to Vegas? And we got married outside of Vegas. So I was like, oh wow, she's okay with us getting married. So she flew in and I had been Robin's best man. And then my daughter was my best man, but she showed up and she goes, you know what I'm wearing? And I'm like, yeah, I know what you're wearing. She, she had one of his suits on. It was really, it was really sweet. My daughter wore his suit to be my best man. And there was all this weird synchronicity and I'm not woo at all, but, um, yeah, Polly was wearing a hat that Robin had worn, given me after he did a photo shoot in his derby. And again, that was just with me in the car. And then after it was all done, Jimmy Kimmel sent me this print of Robin. And he didn't know this, but it's the print of the photo shoot that Robin was wearing that hat in. Oh, God.

40:30Yeah, where he was playing Toulouse-Lautrec. It's really crazy. Yeah, so again, I'm not woo-woo, but I definitely believe that he was there in a way when that all happened. It was pretty sweet. That's really sweet. That's really sweet. I mean, yeah. I mean that, um, touching back on what you said there about, um, Natalie, so Natalie who, uh, who played Edinburgh. I mean, like, I did want to ask like, as obviously a great comedian yourself, great writer, great director. Are there any sort of comedians out there right now that you're a particular, a particular fan of? Maybe people, people coming up or like filmmakers, like.

41:02Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, like, she's somebody that just blows me away. I mean, she's not coming up. I always think Maria Bamford is, like, you know, just so brilliant. Filmmakers, I'm, you know, I don't, I haven't, you know, I haven't been on the festival route in a while, so I don't have anyone to say that, um... you know, somebody that's not getting their dues. But, you know, I, I'm, I don't think I'm that jaded, you know, like I did, you know, I did see Obsession and I was like, yeah, right on, Curry, you know, this is, you know, I mean, couldn't have been happier, you know, like, that, that's great. And that's the kind of, that's what I'm talking about, making these things just because you have to make them. And then, you know, and they're connected, you know. And again, I mean, I I've yet to try to make a movie that I thought would bring in an audience, and I don't think I'm going to ever do that. I think that would be a mistake. But the problem is that I make a movie. My target audience is me, which is really bad.

42:20Well, but you've made those films and they have found an audience. I think that's what's amazing. People have come along with you for the ride of films that you've made. I mean, we said right back at the start that one of my favourite films of yours is Windy City Heat, which I kind of feel compelled to ask you about because it's such a fascinating film to me. How that was made, how you directed it, how you were... You know what's interesting about the movies is that, like, Windy City Heat has this fan base that just, you know, they're so crazy for it. And the people that I've met that, you know, be it like Edgar Wright or something, you know, people that are really into that movie. Yeah.

43:03And that goes for the different movies I make. They find their audience, and not necessarily a big audience, but the people that find it, they get really crazy about it. You know, like, you know, have you seen this? And then sometimes when I'm ego surfing online, it makes me laugh when people that liked one of my movies is mad about the other movie. You know, like someone from the Bigfoot community telling people not to watch Windy City Heat. because it's evil, you know. That stuff makes me laugh. Windy City, like I said, I was just a cog, you know. I did direct it and figure out how to shoot it, and then me and Brad Morrison, we edited it together. But, you know, the first assemblage was 14 hours long because we had footage, so...

43:53It was kind of madness editing it. But it was a strange way to make a movie because you would go, you would rehearse, and you would kind of get an idea of what you thought would happen when Perry came to the set. And you'd kind of hope what you thought might happen. But you weren't ever 100% sure, and sometimes things didn't go the way you would imagine him reacting. So it would be like making a movie where you rehearse all day with the leading man, I mean without the leading man, and then he comes in and he does one take.

44:31like working with Frank Sinatra or something, you know what I mean? Like you rehearsed all day and then they came in and you just had one take and that was it. So it was a really fascinating way to work. It's, it's, I don't know. It's such a crazy film, you know? So I don't think I'd ever do it, but a part of me is interested in like, like taking all the footage and showing what went on behind it, because it was so crazy too, you know? Just, just, just, just, just madness, you know? But, you know, that movie, I mean, there's been other things later on, but how many years ago was that? I think it's like, is it 25 years ago? Yeah, like 23 years, 2003, I think was when it's.

45:15So, you know, other things came out later on that were similar to it. But I think Perry is a unique person. And so no matter if you try to do it again or do it a different way, it won't be the same, you know, because part of you will go, wow, I can't believe they're doing this to somebody. But then he can be such an asshole. You don't really feel bad at it. Yeah, like he'll do something. Because watching it back, I was reminded of how it's hilarious, but there is obviously that sort of almost like theater of cruelty edge to it, you know, which is just always there. But then like, yeah, he'll do something that's so obnoxious that you'll think he deserves it. And it's interesting to me that you say that, so the behind the scenes, because I was going to ask about how you would mount that film. Yeah, I mean, I just remembered like, you know, it'd be like...

46:09The craziness before he would get in there, it'd be like, you know, it's like, Truman's here, Truman's on the set, you know. This Truman Show, you know. And having infighting with me and Tony and Don sometimes. Not infighting, but like, well, what did you do there? You know, and it's just like, it's so crazy because it's like another layer of... Not infighting, but it's like, did you fucking laugh? No, I didn't laugh. You fucking blew that take, you know. It's madness. It's madness, yeah. So, and so many layers, too. You know, Mole is always stoned, so Mole really was stoned. So there was always weed. You can smell weed from Mole. I mean...

47:01the layers of trying to make it out uh you know um real were pretty pretty pretty heavy well with windy city heat then i mean just i guess it's like a sort of final question on that front because i when i was watching it back like i did think like were there any moments obviously because you being the cog as you say in the machine but the director like and and performing i mean were there any moments where you guys were thinking oh this is this is too far we're taking this too far was there any moments like that or was it like no let's just keep going No, but it would exceed the insanity of what we had prepared, you know, like when Perry goes into the bathroom, you know, I mean, and the fact that...

47:45I think most people would have said cut at that time. So I guess that's something I brought to the project. I was like, just keep filming, you know? So, um, uh, you know, I think of times where, where, where I did laugh, you know, that didn't make the movie, but, um, just, you know, there's just so much footage, you know, it was just like, he was up on top of a building and, uh, And there's a mannequin. And I said, I go, move the dummy and the mannequin, you know, meaning that I was calling Gary a dummy. And he goes, hey, what are you doing? He starts yelling at me. It reminds me of what you just said there about the footage. It reminds me of that Boogie Nights song. Like, we just keep rolling. We just keep rolling. Just keep rolling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Boogie Nights. That's one of the greatest movies, you know.

48:36That's one of those ones if it's on, you stop, you know, oh, no, I'm not going anywhere. I remember you saying on Brett Goldstein's podcast that Boogie Nights was like, that's one of the greats, if not the greatest film ever made. I'm like, right on. Yeah, no, I agree. And I just saw that. I think I'll be back in the U.S. It's going to be playing, you know, in a theater. So I'm going to get to see it in the theater again. So, yeah. Yeah. I love that movie, you know.

49:02yeah i think i was and you know there's similar movies you know that that that people you know i think like goodfellas is another one where you know you go this is just perfect you know it's so great yeah and that energy of just like the steadicam shots and this the cocaine energy of just like you know like the filmmaking it's just insane And, you know, people always act like having a voiceover, like a narrator, is bad cinema, you know. And Scorsese uses it a lot, and it's awesome. So, I mean, I guess if you watch a bad movie or something, or if you're watching Wonder Years or something. But, I mean, you know, I don't know if I took a swipe at Wonder Years.

49:51I'm sure it's good, man. I'm sure it's good. It holds up the test of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you were mentioning there about some of the different projects that you've got on the go and that you're developing. I mean, because your last movie was Joyride in 2021. Yeah, and that would be the last thing I made. You know, when I did this series, Misfits and Monsters, and I... I like it, but working with TV, that was really frustrating. That ate up a lot of my time that I would normally be making movies. So I feel like I'm on a cusp of getting back into having another spurt like I had there when I did Sleeping Dogs, A World's Greatest Day, God Blessing Me. I know that I've got enough scripts, and it just feels like I'm going to get back into making them. I know it's a weird time for movies, but...

50:42you know, I was just going to lie and go get a movie made. Without a permit. We're just going to do it. we'll just go make it yeah yeah i think that's the right the attitude you've got to have isn't it i mean to me it's just the attitude as you say you see with people like curry barker with obsession and it actually reminds me of like adam i don't know if you know adam carter ramer who recently had on the pod he did that film dinner in america which is a fantastic film i urge you to check it out if you haven't seen it because that's got a great sort of gonzo energy and he's just done a new film uh with uh samara weaving carolina caroline but yeah that's sort of just like just get out there and do it that's kind of the ethos yeah And, you know, I have like an affinity to Ed Wood because, you know, no one was asking for his movies, but he was going to make them. You know, that's one of the side things that I have been working on with Dana Gould is we have...

51:3340 minutes of an unfinished Ed Wood film called Operation Red Light. Yeah, so we've been finishing the missing elements to this Ed Wood film. So we're bringing Ed, hopefully doing justice by Ed and bringing his vision to life. That's amazing. Is it one of like his unfinished films from like the sixties or the seventies? It's from, uh, it's from 69. Yeah. So, uh, he's in it and he wrote it, uh, but he didn't direct it, but, um, but it still has his flair. That's his visual, his visual style. Yeah.

52:09I know you were a big Edward fan. You have a tattoo of Edward. Yeah, I have a tattoo of Ed and Dana is just as big. So we've got this footage and we've been working on finishing it and doing it in a way that is hopefully people find it entertaining where it's not just filling in the blanks but also there's a... a documentary kind of element of getting this, getting, finishing it and, and a bunch of different things going on. So, so hopefully I'll finish that, but that's been something I have been working on.

52:51Well, as a fan, I mean, I can't wait to see it. I mean, I guess as a wrap-up question then, something we talked about earlier was like the most punk thing you can do right now is to make an upbeat movie. And do you think that's, and you said that a few years ago, do you think that is still in the current, the way the world is at the moment? Do you think the most punk thing that we can do now is kind of be upbeat and make upbeat kind thing art? Well, I think...

53:13I think it's that's one thing is like if you can make upbeat stuff during this time, if you can write a dance song, you know. But I think the big one is that you keep creating, that you don't let this, especially in the States, you know, this... This depression that's following everybody, you know, this, what's the point, you know, as the world gets darker and darker, you know, creating is the, is the, is, is the colossal middle finger to this. And, you know, and then if you actually make a funny thing or if you make a upbeat film, you know, fascists hate joy. So if we're still having fun, that makes them nuts. You know, if we're still making stuff, if we still exist, if, if, if I still go on stage and shoot my mouth off, you know, That makes them mad, you know? So I'm going to keep making stuff. Just, I don't know what to do besides piss people off. So that's all I'm talking about. Comic terrorism, as John Waters would say. Yeah. I feel like that's probably why we have, we get along really well.

54:27That comic terror aspect. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic, Bobcat. Well, what can I say? This has been a fantastic, you know, hour or so just to chat to you. I mean, being the fan of yours that I am, this was such a pleasure. And all I can say is echo that sentiment. I mean, yeah, fascists hate creativity, by large. Freedom. So you just got to keep on outcreate the, you know, the destroyers. Yeah, because if you stop, then they do win. So I will keep making stuff that kind of motivates me.

54:56fantastic well i'll be here no worries well i'll be here for it i'll be here for it the next thing yeah i'm there for whatever you do next i'm there great well thank you thank you man all right well thanks so much and uh enjoy the rest of your day thank you thanks a lot thank you so much bye-bye Hey everyone, thanks so much for listening to my chat with Bobcat Golfway. Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and check out our YouTube memberships where you can watch the full uncut version of my conversation with Bobcat with 15 more minutes of extra chat. Stay tuned for more exciting interviews and guests coming soon on Half the Picture.