Season 1, Episode 10 · Navigating Net Zero with Alexia Kelly

Navigating Net Zero: Tisha Schuller on Real Climate Progress and the Messy Middle

3 Mar 2026 · 52 min

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Episode notes

In this episode of Navigating Net Zero, host Alexia Kelly is joined by Tisha Schuller, founder of Adamantine Energy and strategic advisor to Stanford's Natural Gas Initiative. She’s the author of four books: Accidentally Adamant (2018); The Game Changers Playbook: How Oil and Gas Leaders Thrive in an Era of Continuous Disruption (2020); Real Decarbonization: How Oil and Gas Companies Are Seizing the Low-Carbon Future ; and The Myth in the Moment: From Polarization to Progress in the New Energy Landscape. Tisha shares her journey from environmental activism to environmental leadership in the…

Transcript

Read the transcript · about 970 words

Alexia Kelly: Welcome to Navigating Net Zero.

This is the podcast where we talk about what’s working, what’s not, and what’s next on the journey to net zero.

I’m really pleased—and I’ve been looking forward to this conversation—to be joined today by Tisha Schuller.

Tisha and I met, I think, three years ago at a Stanford oil and gas conference.

One of my commitments when I left the climate bubble—and then came back into it—was that I wanted to spend more time talking to people who aren’t part of the bubble and who aren’t inside of the bubble.

And when I heard Tisha speaking at this conference, it was very clear that she similarly lived in that kind of messy middle space.

And we hit it off right away.

So I’m delighted to have you here today.

Thanks so much for joining us, Tisha.

Tisha Schuller: I’m so happy to be here.

And I’m happy to join you with one foot in the bubble and one foot out of the bubble.

Alexia Kelly: Totally.

I think we need a name for whatever that looks like besides just “the messy middle.”

For those of you who don’t know Tisha: Tisha is the founder of Adamantine Energy, where she helps energy and oil and gas companies turn their sustainability and decarbonization goals into action.

She’s a strategic advisor to Stanford’s Natural Gas Initiative, and a former CEO of the Colorado Oil and Gas Association.

She’s also the author of several books on leadership in the energy transition, including her most recently published book, The Myth in the Moment.

Tisha currently serves on the Avatar Innovations Advisory Board and is a member of the National Petroleum Council, which is an advisory board to the U.S. Secretary of Energy under the Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations.

Does that include this Trump administration, Tisha?

Tisha Schuller: It does.

Alexia Kelly: Okay. All right.

Tisha Schuller: It’s starting to date me—that this service.

Alexia Kelly: Yes. Also: two Trump administrations.

She’s the author of four books: Accidentally Adamant (2018); The Game Changers Playbook (2020); Real Decarbonization; and The Myth in the Moment (2025).

Tisha authors Both of These Things Are True, a weekly email newsletter, and hosts the Energy Thinks podcast.

So thanks so much for joining me here on Navigating Net Zero today.

Tisha Schuller: I am so happy to be here.

I look forward to this conversation as well.

Alexia Kelly: So Tisha, tell me a little bit about your career path and how you came to work in this messy middle area that we’ve been talking so much about.

Tisha Schuller: It’s a long story, so I’m going to make a very short version.

In college, I considered myself an environmental activist.

When I moved to Boulder County, Colorado, I identified primarily as an environmentalist and environmental activist.

As an environmental consultant, my clients were the oil and gas industry.

One of my early projects was to teach “Environmental 101” to oil and gas companies all over the U.S.

Instead of educating other people, I got a real education about the industry—about the people, about what environmentalism means to different people, and about the assumptions we make in our political bubbles.

That led to me becoming CEO of the Colorado Oil and Gas Association during the fracking wars.

Over time, climate rose as the central environmental issue, and polarization deepened.

I came to believe that polarization is the enemy of progress.

At some point you have to decide: are you more committed to the fight, or more committed to progress?

If you’re committed to progress, you have to work with people you consider “the other.”

That’s the space I’ve chosen to live in.

Alexia Kelly: I love that.

Those bridging roles are rare.

It’s lonely sometimes, but incredibly important.

Tisha Schuller: It takes tremendous courage to speak truth to your in-group.

It’s easy to pander to your side.

It’s much harder to challenge your own tribe.

And that’s where progress lives.

Alexia Kelly: Let’s talk about how the oil and gas industry sees itself in this transition.

Tisha Schuller: Historically, the industry saw itself as a source of pride—modernizing America, providing affordable, reliable energy.

When backlash came, there was genuine confusion.

More recently, many companies engaged seriously on net zero, ESG, methane reductions, carbon capture, and innovation.

Now, there’s uncertainty.

What are the rules?

What’s expected?

Who are the stakeholders that matter?

That uncertainty is unsettling—but also full of opportunity.

Alexia Kelly: A common argument I hear is that engaging with oil and gas only prolongs its existence.

How do you respond?

Tisha Schuller: First, from a practical perspective, replacing existing infrastructure wholesale would be environmentally and economically devastating.

Second, millions of people work in this industry.

If we believe in just transition, we must consider them.

Third, the scale and capital of the industry matter.

We need those resources for hydrogen, carbon capture, and lower-carbon fuels.

And finally, labeling industries or people as “evil” eliminates pathways for progress.

If we want redemption and change, there must be an exit ramp.

Alexia Kelly: Let’s talk about CCUS and incrementalism.

Tisha Schuller: Incremental progress matters.

If the choice is unabated versus abated fossil, abated is better.

Innovation takes time.

Costs come down through deployment.

But if environmental stakeholders refuse to engage, companies lose incentive to build lower-carbon solutions.

Partnership is essential.

Alexia Kelly: What keeps you motivated?

Tisha Schuller: I’m relentlessly optimistic.

Uncertainty creates opportunity.

This moment feels chaotic—but it also gives us space to rewrite the playbook.

There has never been a time more unwritten than now.

We are the ones who will solve this.

So let’s write good stuff.

Alexia Kelly: Beautifully said.

Thank you for your time, your courage, and your leadership.

Tisha Schuller: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

Transcript supplied by the publisher with the episode.

Podcast

Navigating Net Zero with Alexia Kelly

Navigating Net Zero · Tech & Science · English

Navigating Net Zero is a podcast featuring conversations with practitioners and experts who are working through the complex realities of corporate decarbonization and sustainability. We demystify and highlight the challenges, opportunities, and real-world experiences faced by the people leading t

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