#902 Packers Unscripted: State of the team

0:05Speaker 1:Hi everybody, welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers.com. I am Mike Spofford, joined as always by my trusted colleague Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here from the Pottawatomie Sportsbook studio inside the walls of Lambeau Field. And Wes, I want to take a little different approach to today's show.

0:24Speaker 2:Okay, arm wrestling. No, we're not going to arm wrestle. Fair enough.

0:30Speaker 1:But we spent our last show talking about all of the roster moves and the trades and the decisions and the releases and everything that went into putting together the Packers' initial 53-man roster. So now that we're finishing up this sort of week in between the preseason finale and then getting ready for week one, which we'll have plenty to talk about with regard to the Vikings and everything next week, I want to do a little bit of a review of training camp, sort of a big picture. So I have some topics to throw your way. And because this show is truly unscripted, I have not given him a heads up on these topics. So I will give you the option to toss back to me initially if you want some more time to think. When I throw something at you, I will.

1:18Speaker 2:Take the questions head on. If we have to sit here for 15 minutes in silence while I think of an answer, we will do that.

1:24Speaker 1:Okay. No, I'm giving you an out. But anyway, first topic.

1:28Speaker 2:Okay.

1:29Speaker 1:Over the last month through the month of August, what did you feel was the most important development? With regard to the 2026 Packers, what did you see that was most important?

1:39Speaker 2:Can I go pound for pound here? Like I'm allowed? Cause it's like, I mean, maybe not the thing that, you know, you and Carson Denley are going to pull for the headline of the episode, but something that I think really does have a huge impact on the season. Special teams. I was very impressed by what I saw from Cam Acord's special teams. during the preseason and in training camp. Now, Matt LaFleur was asked about this. I thought it was a good, well-constructed question. The way that Matt said it is, well, you know, you need to do it in the regular season now. You got to take it kind of with a grain of salt. I'll say this. If Acord had the second and third team units playing the way that he did throughout training camp and in those preseason games, it gives me confidence that the first team unit is going to be where it needs to be. And a real interesting conversation that happened during the press conference was centered around this idea of what, you know, the Packers special teams and their performance last year.

2:30Speaker 2:Punt return was poor. Field goal operation poor. Field goal block, you know, didn't really have any huge moments there. But the coverage teams played really well last season. We talked about in kickoff coverage, they didn't really allow a bust all season. Punt coverage up until when Bo Melton, as we talked about in our last show, Bo Melton, Zane Anderson got hurt. They were solid in that regard. But now can you pull it all together? Like, I think there was a lot of positives that did happen in the Rich Passaccia era. I felt like they had to really build this thing back up from nothing in 2022.

3:07Speaker 2:And the foundation that Cam Acord has to work with, it's just the ground is so much more fertile now. And you're seeing guys like Brenton Cox Jr. playing teams that for two, three years hasn't really played on special teams, but he's made a jump. You know, we heard Matt LaFleur compliment J. Michael Sturvidant. One of the reasons that he got that sixth receiver job is because he's done better on special teams. They have a core there, Nick Neiman, Isaiah McDuffie, guys that have been around here that they know, OK, they have something they can offer on defense, but they're going to major in the special teams area, too. I just feel like it's set up for Green Bay to have the base there for the special teams to be impactful, and now you add in Sky Moore. Now, hopefully, a lot of the things we've seen in these preseason games with Trey Smack can carry over. I think Daniel Whelan is in his flow right now in terms of where he's at. Matt Orzik is back from the calf. So special teams is one thing that when I watched them throughout training camp, when I watched them in the joint practices with Arizona, I was very encouraged by what I saw.

4:04Speaker 1:Yeah, for me with special teams... It always felt like in the Bisacci era when you saw progress being made, things looked like they were headed in the right direction, and then suddenly for a couple of weeks in a row, the flags would be flying all over the place. The penalties would just– that's the part– that's the piece that more than anything I would like to see Cam Acord be able to clean up because as much as Sky Moore I believe is going to help the return game and he's going to put the Packers in a better position with regard to that, The Packers don't need 50-yard kickoff returns, and they don't need 25- and 30-yard punt returns on a regular basis. When you have Jordan Love in this offense, what you need is to not have any penalties that are going to put you back on the 15-yard line or back on the 8-yard line because of mistakes in that area. There are a couple of flags that were thrown in the preseason, a lot of second- and third-team guys out there and whatnot, so you expect that a little bit. And they play clean football in that phase. And if they do, then I think everything

5:12Speaker 1:else starts to follow because the penalties are always what are going to stunt your momentum and stunt your growth in that area. So I think that's a big one to point out. For me, the most important development, and I look at two players in particular, the most important development was seeing these guys getting back to who we believe they can be. And I'm talking about Tucker Craft and Marshawn Lloyd. And I probably wouldn't be talking about Marshawn Lloyd necessarily in this segment if it weren't for all of the uncertainty surrounding Josh Jacobs right now. But Marshawn Lloyd is more than likely going to be heading into week one as the Packers' number one running back.

5:50Speaker 1:But we talked all offseason about Tucker Kraft and when's he going to get back to practice and how is this going to go. And everything that we've seen, it's as though he never left. And of course, the impact on the Packers when he was gone was certainly felt. So we know that he did leave. But looking at him specifically... He looks like he's back to his old self. And I think that is going to have a huge, huge impact on where things go offensively.

6:15Speaker 2:So I was upstairs, I was eating my breakfast in the little cafeteria area we have on the third floor. And Sam Delapaz, who is one of our social media interns, says to me, well, says to everybody, who's your guy and why for the season? I believe it was Sam. If it was somebody else, I apologize, but I believe it was Sam. And you know what my answer was? Marshawn Lloyd. Because the thing about it is, we'll see how everything unfolds here with Josh Jacobs, but the Packers invested a third-round draft pick into him. This is a guy that we heard about his potential. We've seen his explosiveness in practice. In so many ways with how the National Football League is constructed now, yeah, you're going to have your Jameer Gibbses, who are the 12th overall pick or whatever he was, and your Bijan Robinsons, who you guys are going to love right now in Arizona, where you're going to use top drafts. draft choices on him.

7:08Speaker 2:But in a lot of cases, starting caliber, Pro Bowl caliber running backs are found in the third round. And I'm not saying that that's what Marshawn Lloyd has to do this season, but it just shows the type of potential this guy has, if he's able to stay on the field, if he's able to maximize his blocking opportunities. Some of this run game stuff is going to be on the offensive line too. They need to take a step forward this season. But I think the one thing that was the most encouraging, especially early in camp when we were watching the practices and we finally got a chance to see Marshawn playing uninhibited, unafraid, just being himself is, if the gap is there, that guy can make a lot out of it quick. And I feel like that's going to be one of the things that as Green Bay navigates this season, regardless of Jacob's situation, they're going to need 32. There is no Emmanuel Wilson now. There is no RB2 in terms of the traditional established sense.

8:00Speaker 2:It is Marshawn Lloyd's job right now. It's going to be on Chris Brooks to compliment that. It's going to be on Caleb Johnson to compliment that. But there's a reason why the Packers drafted this particular guy in the third round. And then, oh, by the way, to mention your point on tight end, Tucker Craft is back. They've They've traded for a blocking wide tight end now in Mark Redman. The Packers can get back to their two tight end stuff too, and I think that's going to help them as well.

8:24Speaker 1:Yeah, that's going to be a big factor, I think, in the running game because we're hearing a lot from people in insider inbox, okay, if Josh Jacobs isn't going to be playing, then aren't teams just going to sit back and try to take away the big play from the Packers and make them try to run the ball? And yes, there's going to be some of that, but you have to remember defenses are going to also just do what they do best to try to contain whoever the offense is on the other side.

8:51Speaker 2:May I just really, not to interrupt you, but there was a lot of conversation this week about LA, right? The 13 personnel, they run all the three tight ends.

8:58Speaker 1:Three tight ends.

8:59Speaker 2:That is the counter right now in the National Football League. 100%. The more tight ends you put on the field, the more it makes those nickel corners and those safeties make a decision on how you're going to defend those tight ends. That's the other thing you have to keep in mind with this too, and that's why having Tucker Kraft back is such a boon for this offense right now, because you don't know how the Packers are going to utilize him. Are they going to use the underneath stuff and let him rely on his yards after catch? Is he going to go out and route patterns? Is he going to stay inside as a blocking team? You need those type of players in your offense. Honestly, they're different positions, but that's what made Jordy Nelson so effective. When Jordy was in his prime, he was a 1,200-yard receiver with 15 touchdowns who also was their best blocking receiver. So you can't just guess and think that, okay, well, this is the way they're going to play it. You're going to be more complicated and more complex than that.

9:48Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Next topic for you. What do you see as the greatest strengths of this team heading into the start of the season?

9:58Speaker 2:Kind of echoing the stuff about the offense. but I mean, the skill positions, this is the fastest they've ever been. It was a question I think I even asked to Bo Melton earlier in the training camp. You know, he's been around here, and Bo's been around here since 2022 now. This is the end of the season, but that's when he got here. He's one of the oldest, longest tenured guys in Green Bay, coincidentally, the way this has unfolded. Yeah. And he said it too. I mean, this is the fastest they've ever been. And it doesn't matter if it's golden.

10:22Speaker 2:It doesn't matter if it's Christian Watson. I think Jaden Reed, people really sleep on him and his, his shiftiness underneath. And then you add Melton into the mix as a potential wild card every now and then the green Bay wanted to get faster. They also managed to get a bigger in a lot of ways too, but having that type of firepower on the perimeter, I think is going to be really good because again, if you can keep all these guys healthy, And if Lloyd in the backfield can kind of hold up their end of the bargain, defenses do have to make a choice. You can't double Christian Watson. You can't double Matthew Golden. You can't have all the eyes on Tucker Kraft. Somebody's going to get a one-on-one op. And I feel like whether it's Melton or whether it's Watson, these guys have the talent and the ability to take advantage of it.

11:05Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what's at the top of the list for me too is the frontline weapons that are in this offense. And you have Jordan Love, a quarterback who is– on the rise, on his way to becoming, if he's not already there, one of the elite guys in this league. But the main quartet of the perimeter weapons, Tucker Craft, Christian Watson, Matthew Golden, Jaden Reed, whatever order you want to put them in, that's a really, really impressive group and has a chance to be a really, really special group.

11:39Speaker 1:That's what I think stands out the most about this team. For right now, that collection of perimeter weapons is what you're hanging your hat on heading into week one that, all right, we're going to try to strike a little bit of fear into opponents with what the Packers have there. The other thing that strikes me as a strength of this team that I don't know how soon we're going to see it, and maybe sooner than later, but I get the sense, and again, we have to see what happens in the games, but I get the sense that Jonathan Gannon is can be really, really creative defensively. And he's going to be challenged in that regard because there won't be Micah Parsons for the first handful of games.

12:22Speaker 1:You've got a lot of young edge rushers that are still out to prove themselves and are going to need to contribute. But you've got a deep collection of defensive tackles. You have a trio of safeties that is as good as you could ask for as a defensive coordinator. So can Jonathan Gannon use his creativity in ways that can really help Green Bay's defense. We saw Jeff Halfley do that in his first year as coordinator, too. The idea was the Packers were going to play a 4-3, they were going to get pressure with 4, cover with 7, and things were going to be pretty easy and pretty simple defensively. Well, it didn't work out that way because the four-man rush wasn't getting the job done, and it forced Halfley to get really creative. And by the end of the season, I mean, I know the Packers bowed out in the first round of the playoffs, but But that first round playoff game in Philadelphia, that defense was playing really, really good football. And a lot of it was because of all the creative stuff that Halfley had come up with to maximize what he had out there.

13:21Speaker 1:I think Jonathan Gannon has the potential to do the same thing. It's a little bit of an unknown right now because we haven't seen it. But I'm really curious to see what he does with the challenges that he has moving forward.

13:33Speaker 2:And that's the only silver lining to not having Micah Parsons for the first month of the season, if you could even say such a thing, is that it's going to allow Green Bay to figure out, okay, what do we do well without him? Yeah. And what can we major in once he's back? What can you learn about some of these rush packages, some of these blitz packages, some of the way that they've configured their personnel? Yeah. We are going to see probably more three safety. I'm not necessarily going to say nickel, but we're going to see more three safety than we've probably ever seen during my time on the beat. When you look at this penny package they've dialed up, some of the other things that they've even shown in the preseason, there's going to be certain areas that Green Bay is going to major in that they are then going to build packages off of, build personnel off of. And the other thing I like, too, is in many ways, it almost felt like where in 2024, Jeff Halfley had to react to a lack of a pass rush. It almost feels like Gannon is prepared to do things a little bit differently going into the season

14:31Speaker 2:because you don't have Micah there for the first month. I think there's a lot to like. I think Lucas Van Ness is going to surprise people this year. I think Baron Sorrell is going to step up. I think Brenton Cox Jr. had another strong training camp. There are pass rushers that can win one-on-one ops, but It's how they're using their cornerbacks. It's some of the blitz packages we're seeing off the edge. It's the way that Adrian Cooper is going to be involved in this defense. It's not one specific player and it's not one specific scheme that Green Bay is going to rely on. They are going to throw the kitchen sink at offenses this season.

15:01Speaker 2:And I feel like when you're an offensive coordinator and you're a quarterback, having to account for all these different things is going to be critical. In addition to The fact that Green Bay went with seven defensive linemen, seven defensive tackles. Yeah. And none of these guys play the same. You're going to have Devontae Wyatt in front. You're going to have Javon Hargrave up front. You potentially could see some Anthony Campbell out there with his six foot six span and his arm in his reach. You're going to have big guys like Jonathan Ford that are going to be there on first down, taking on double teams. Green Bay wants to build this thing from the inside out, it feels like, the way that they've configured this whole deal.

15:38Speaker 2:And I think that's going to make it very exciting to watch. It's going to be a work in progress. I don't think you're going to go out against Minnesota and that's going to be, okay, this is the scheme. I think they're going to evolve throughout the course of the year and have to figure out what, okay, this is our plan. You get punched a little bit. How are we going to adjust? But Gannon's had six months now, seven months to figure this thing out and what he wants to do without Micah Parsons. And now we're going to see what that plan is.

16:01Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. A couple other topics I want to get to, but need to pay some bills first. So let's hear a quick word from our sponsors. Sirius XM NFL Radio delivers hard-hitting analysis and up-to-the-minute NFL news that true football fanatics need 24-7, 365. Hey Packers fans, looking to score a few more Wisconsin memories? From Devil's Lake State Park to the Milwaukee Art Museum, discover all the wonders of Wisconsin at TravelWisconsin.com slash wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted, reviewing the last month of training camp and the preseason here as week one is right around the corner. Next topic to throw at you, Wes. All right. What are your biggest concerns? about where things stand with this team heading into the start of the regular season?

16:50Speaker 2:The big one is with the run game. Just because I think in a lot of ways last season, Josh Jacobs made the run game right. There were times where you had the contact before the line of scrimmage and he would still find a way to squeak out for three, four yards to keep the chains moving. You don't want to have this offense sitting in second and third and long a lot. You want to be able to keep this thing manageable because I think that's where Jordan Love really is able to start dicing up defenses. I think Jordan Love is ready, man. I think this is the year that he could really take off. I mean, you've heard obviously the comments that Micah Parsons said about him.

17:21Speaker 2:Feels like he could be an MVP-type candidate this year. I don't know if I necessarily want to throw all those expectations on Jordan right out of the gate. But I just– you've been in these scrums. I've been in these scrums. I sat down with him in the offseason. Jordan is always a cool, calm, and collect customer. We all know that about him. But there is a confidence now with this dude that it's like he's seen it all now. He's done it all within Matt LaFleur's offense, and it just feels like he's ready to spread his wings and fly. But he needs the guys around him to do their part too. And when you look at the offensive line, a lot of questions there right now because of what happened during training camps. Zach Baccabuele coming back off of that knee injury, that patella injury that ended his season last year, trying to make sure that he's all right and good to go. If he is, you have one of the best right tackles in the game right there. And then certainly this tendonitis issue or whatever.

18:11Speaker 2:you know, Aaron Banks has been working through. Now, Jager Burton's taken a lot of snaps. Jacob Monk has taken a lot of snaps. Anthony Belton has been out there. All those guys have been in the rotational training camp. But the question remains, can you just get those starting five? Whatever that preferable starting five is, can you get them snaps together? Can you get them out there routinely and allow the offense to kind of grow from there?

18:30Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the one at the top of my list, too, just because of everything we saw in training camp that we didn't see throughout the course of August. a group of five that was working together regularly every day. You know, now there've been some practices this week. They're going to be practices next week, getting ready for Minnesota. Hopefully, you know, and this is where we don't get to see the 11 on 11, like we did in training camp, regular season practice rules. The media gets kicked out before they, before they go to 11 on 11. So we don't know how many snaps Baca Boeli is taking at right tackler.

19:02Speaker 1:Aaron Banks is taking at left guard and how much the group of five is working together. But to me, that's one of the biggest questions of this team is just that whole chemistry and continuity of it. And are Bacaboy and Banks ready to, A, play a full game and, B, play a full game week after week after week based on the injuries that they're dealing with and they're coming back from? I think Jordan Morgan potentially could be an upgrade at left tackle.

19:27Speaker 2:I think he is.

19:28Speaker 1:Or where the Packers have been the last couple years with Rasheed Walker. I think– If Jacob Monk settles in at right guard, I mean, we've seen for the last, what is it, three years, essentially this constant rotation at right guard of different guys being plugged in there at different times for different reasons and all that. If Jacob Monk takes a hold of that right guard position and says, this is mine and performs in a way that the coaches aren't thinking twice about just writing him into the starting lineup every week. I think that's, you know, as much as it's, you know, two new starters, you know, two new starting spots, I think both have a chance to be an upgrade over where Green Bay was. And if you can get these veteran guys who are dealing with injuries back and ready to go and ready for the long haul, I think this has a chance to be a really, really good offensive line. It's just going to take some time to come together.

20:17Speaker 2:I think Jacob Monk looks like a guard, definitely from like a dictionary standpoint. I mean, he looks like a guard. And I think Jordan Morgan looks like a left tackle, and I don't equivocate. I think Jordan Morgan, already from what I've seen in this camp, I think he will be an upgrade, respectfully, over Rasheed Walker. The two reasons I say that is, one, his fundamentals are so sound at left tackle. I think that was where he was trying to find his footing and never truly did when he was rotating around at guard and everything. It's just a different world there. But when you see when he's at left tackle, he's just so darn comfortable. This is a guy that played predominantly his entire career at that spot at Arizona and then had to kind of wait in the shadows here for that opportunity. Now, The tough spot that Green Bay was in last year is I felt like Rasheed Walker, that left tackle was his spot.

21:04Speaker 2:I didn't feel real great that if they needed to move him around, there was a different position for him. He was going to have to be a left tackle.

21:09Speaker 1:And that's why he, that's why they kept him there is because there wasn't another place to put him.

21:14Speaker 2:It's kind of like when Yash was here at Nyman where it was like, okay, well that's, that's his spot. So you got to try to figure out the rest. That's why you preach versatility. That's why you try to find different guys who fit into different spots. But Jordan Morgan's camp man was as steady and as consistent as it could possibly have been. And I thought in the one-on-ones that I watched, he progressively got better. A lot of times repping against Lucas Van Ness, I thought he started to win more of those matchups. I think there's, he doesn't, where you look at like David, when he was playing left tackle, David is such an athlete. and not to say that Jordan is, and he's a tremendous athlete too, but there was so much about David's style that was based on athleticism and just being a superior athlete and being able to tie in the fundamentals. And once all that caught up, now you have an all pro, right?

21:59Speaker 2:That's how he survived in 13. And that's how he grew from there. When I look at Jordan, he just looks like a guy that knows what he does well and plays to it with his hands, with his kickstep, There's just a lot to like there. I know I've gone on a little bit about that, but it's a topic we haven't talked a lot about because he's kind of an understated guy. But I think fans are going to be really, really pleasantly surprised and happy with what they see when 77 is on the field this year.

22:26Speaker 1:A couple other things that I will just raise as far as potential concerns because the Packers are going to be counting on two rookies. in two very important spots. And I'm talking about Brandon Cissé at cornerback and Trey Smack at kicker. And the reason I raised that, what I want to say in terms of the concern is what you never know about rookies in this league. Now, everything we've seen from Brandon Cissé and Trey Smack, they look like they belong. They look like they can do the job. They both look like they could be here in Green Bay for a very long time. But what you don't know about rookies in this league is When something goes wrong in a big game, in a bright spotlight, how do they react? We hear from Matt LaFleur all the time, how do you respond to adversity? That's what makes you who you are. That's what establishes you as an NFL player. Brandon Cisse is going to get beat by Justin Jefferson for a first down or for a touchdown or something like that in week one. It's going to happen. There's going to be a play that goes against him. So how does he react to that in the heat of the moment when you've still got two

23:35Speaker 1:and a half quarters left to play and you still got to deal with this all pro on the other side, right? Trey smack is going to miss a kick or miss multiple kicks in the first month of the season. It's going to happen. So how does he respond? Because, you know, three 25 at us bank stadium, that's a nationally televised game for the Packers. Week three is, is Thursday night football, you know, The Bears game is another 325 game. The Cowboys game is going to be Sunday night football under the bright lights. These are bigger stages than these guys have ever played on, right? So when something goes wrong, when it doesn't go their way, how are they going to react? How are they going to respond? Because those are the two spots more than any other where the Packers are counting on rookies to really come through for them.

24:21Speaker 2:Yeah, and then there's two things about this that I think are really interesting. One is, again, you cannot compare anything to National Football League. Both of these guys were raised in the SEC. Yep. And I think when you look at, from C-State's standpoint, he's seen some of the best receivers that college football had to offer. True. Now, again, Justin Jefferson is a different level athlete, one of the best of his generation, if not the best, right? But it gives you that background. When I look at Trey Smack, he's talked about kicking in those 100,000-seat stadiums in the SEC.

24:46Speaker 1:Yeah.

24:49Speaker 2:What I love about him is he's a gamer and he went through some adversity in practice and not wants to carry over into games. The guy's a perfectionist. He wants to improve. He looks at this thing like a golfer trying to go out there and hit a 65 on a 72. I mean, it just, that just seems to be just, what can I do better? And obviously he's already built that familiarity with Daniel Whelan. He will have to go through the ups and downs. He will have to work through the adversity, but you can just tell with the kind of head that he has on his shoulders, in addition to his leg talent, There's a lot there to work with. The thing about Cissé is if I did the whole like men in black, like the swipe on you, you knew nothing, knew nothing about how old he is, knew nothing about how long he's been in the league. And all you have to go off of is a 10 minute conversation with him in the locker room, a five minute interview with him in the locker room. I would have said he's in a six year, he's 27 years old and trying to get to his third pro bowl.

25:42Speaker 1:Totally agree.

25:43Speaker 2:Now, again, those are lofty things. but that's just the way he carries himself. And there's something about it. Cause, and I, I maybe I pick up on it a little bit more than anybody else. Cause I'm, I've always said this. I'm not a war daddy. I would never be the, the, the guy that's like, okay, well I, everything's cool. I'm going to be fine. There's certain people that have the athletic traits that you look for in the position, but then also have that clear mindset. And you can tell CSA has that in addition to having a tremendous build for that position relative to what is athletic measurables are. The fact that this dude's 21 years old, and again, as you said, very easily could get beat for a big one against Minnesota. If it happens, you've got to learn from it. But when the Packers, the situation they were in at cornerback and the way they wanted to revamp that position this offseason, this is exactly the type of football player you wanted to add to that room.

26:34Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And like I say, in raising that as a concern, I'm not saying that I believe that they can't bounce back when something goes wrong. But it's the kind of thing that because they're rookies and because this is the NFL, you don't know until it happens, and we have to see it. We have to see how they're going to respond when something doesn't quite go their way because they're being counted on at such a high level by this football team.

26:57Speaker 2:And I love the way you put that because here's the thing, and I wrote this in Insider Inbox for Thursday. The positions where Packers have the biggest question marks and biggest concerns are probably running back, offensive line, and cornerback, maybe edge rusher here before you get Micah back. But those are also the positions in which they have the highest ceiling for growth. It's not like they just brought in a bunch of 31-year-old veterans and are just hoping for the best. It's not like the situation that Atlanta finds themselves in right now. And God bless Zedaria Smith, terrible situation with his family, his decision to step back.

27:28Speaker 2:But the Falcons, professionally speaking, are like, hey, let's bring this guy in and let's hope for the best with our pass rush. You're going to be the guy, and you were retired a month ago. The Packers are in a spot where the reason that there's questions is because it's unproven commodities yet, but that also is where you find Tremont Williams. That's also where you, you end up finding guys that can help you in your pass rush. And that's, I think probably one of the things that's really exciting about this year's team.

27:55Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so too. Last topic for you, sleepers. Who's, who's the guy or guys not getting the attention that, We're going to be talking about here by the end of, say, the first month of the regular season.

28:13Speaker 2:Okay, I got two. Okay. Should I say the first one and then give you an opportunity so I don't accidentally end up taking yours? Sure, let's do that. You want to do it that way?

28:21Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, I have a couple in mind as well.

28:23Speaker 2:The biggest sleeper, and I think part of it is because he ended up getting injured, but it is Javon Bullard. Because Bullard was so consistent and so steady last year in that nickel spot. And now I think this year you're going to see him add in more of the playmaking elements. And if that happens, we are talking about a pro bowl type corner slash whatever you want to label him as. Nickel, yeah. Third safety. He's got it all, man. And there is a swagger with him and a confidence.

28:50Speaker 2:And there's been a few more splash plays with Evan Williams since they both got drafted in 2024. But I feel like the traits that made Bullard a second-round pick started to show up, especially in the second half of last year when he really started focusing more and more on that nickel spot. And when you're talking about any modern-day defense that has won a championship or anybody that's won a Super Bowl, you need to have somebody in that nickel spot that's a playmaker. Yeah. Dom Capers used to call it the star. Joe Witt used to call it the star. That wasn't hyperbole. That's because you needed somebody that was going to be a difference maker in that spot. And I feel like after these two seasons, assuming he can put this little foot thing behind him, Javon Bullard can be that guy for this defense.

29:37Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm with you there. That was one of the that was absolutely one of the guys at the top of my sleeper list. And we were seeing, you know, him obviously taking all of his reps with the first unit and everything. And then this foot injury cropped up during training camp. And now we haven't seen him for a while. He is back at practice now, by the way, folks. Packers were in pads in practice on Wednesday, and Javon Bullard was out there. So that was good to see.

30:02Speaker 1:He's definitely cranking things up to get ready for week one. The other one at the top of my sleeper list, and it's a guy that you mentioned earlier, and I think you even used the word sleeper, it's Jaden Reed. This is a guy. Now, yes, there's Tucker Craft, there's Christian Watson, there's Matthew Golden. There's only one football to go around, right? We know that. But his first two years with this team... Jaden Reed was the leading receiver for the green Bay Packers. This is a guy who has proven it. He has done it. He last year was close to a total washout and, you know, he missed whatever it was, 10 or 11 games or, or something like that. But what did he do before he got hurt? He was scoring touchdowns. And after he came back, he was scoring touchdowns. I mean, this is a guy who just, when he's out there on a regular basis, he produces and he, I get it. I mean, everybody's going to want all these guys, the big four of the perimeter weapons we've been talking about, everybody's going to want these guys to get 15 targets a game. Well, that's not going to happen. Jordan Love is hopefully not

31:04Speaker 1:going to have to throw the ball 60 times a game to get these guys all their touches and all their opportunities every single week. But just there's been so much attention on so much of the other guys for different reasons and for good reasons. But I think Jaden Reed is the one that everybody's sleeping on.

31:20Speaker 2:Yeah. And the one I wanted to also mention, and it maybe isn't so much that you and I or anyone in the Packers media core is really sleeping on, but I think the National Football League slept on, and I think he knows it, and I think it's pushing him. I think it's stoking his fire, and that's Zyre Franklin. Because Zyre Franklin was an all-pro middle linebacker two years ago. This is not a guy that had anything handed to him on a platter. He's earned every single rep he's taken on special teams and then defense, becoming the Mike in Indianapolis. He gets that second team all pro nod.

31:52Speaker 2:He leads the league in tackles. He has the sacks. He has the interceptions. He has all the stats you look for. And then a little more than a year later, the Indianapolis Colts are trading him to Green Bay for, respectfully, a defensive tackle that didn't make their team in Colby Wooden. I think Zaire, at 30 years old, has a lot to prove, not to the outside, not to the Packers, but to himself. And watching him in practice and watching how he operates, I just feel like this is the type of player that Green Bay needed to add to its defense. You need a little nasty sometimes. And at that position, working with those inside linebackers too, I think Franklin brings that to the party. And I am very excited to see what him, Edrin Cooper, and however they use those inside linebackers, what they can come up with right now. Because one of the big epiphanies that we've seen over the last 15 years here in Green Bay is is the importance of the middle linebacker position and the resources that Brian Gutekun specifically, since he's taken over as GM, has invested into that spot. And Franklin is the latest in that series of players.

32:54Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think it's really crucial that a guy like Franklin came in, he's the signal caller for the defense, and he's a guy who came in already with a comfort level with Jonathan Gannon. Now, Gannon wasn't his position coach in Indianapolis, but he's a guy that Franklin knows, they know each other. I think that is going to help. As we talked about, there's going to be an evolution to this defense, but I think that's helping with the entire transition and setting things up. One other thing I'm going to say, and this doesn't have to do with any topic that I jotted down to come in here, but it occurred to me. What's really interesting about how Brian Gutekunst and the personnel department has gone about building this team for 2026, you just mentioned how all these different positions where there's a lot of youth and unproven, but potential and room for growth and all this kind of stuff, right? But what do you have on the other end of that spectrum? You have a veteran like Zaire Franklin, who's two years removed from an all-pro season.

33:56Speaker 1:You've brought in Jonu Smith, who's two years removed from an 88 catch season at tight end. Javon Hargrave is just a couple years removed from a seven and a half sack season as an interior defensive lineman. Now, Age and decline is real in this league. It happens to everybody and things can happen fast in that regard. But these veteran newcomers that the Packers have brought in are not that far off from big time seasons in this league. And they're out to still, as you just mentioned with Franklin, out to prove that they've still got it, right? And yet they're surrounded by all this youth and potential for growth and guys. And then The core guys, like the perimeter weapons we're talking about, like Jordan Love, the core guys that are coming into their mid to late 20s, into their prime, this is when they're supposed to really hit their stride as professional football players. This entire mix of the youth and then the veterans on the other end and then the core guys in the middle. It's really interesting how the personnel department has gone about building this and hopefully pays off.

35:03Speaker 2:And I thought Brian did one other, you know, a little bit of a shift too that he got back to this year that I think is really important is they went back to finding like super incredibly durable veterans. John Smith has missed, I think, what did I put in my story? It was like eight games over nine seasons. Zyre Franklin is a guy that has played pretty much every game throughout the course of his career. There was one issue, one hiccup, I believe it was a triceps injury.

35:25Speaker 2:for Hargrave two years ago in San Francisco.

35:27Speaker 1:Yeah, he had the one year where he missed a bunch of games, but other than that.

35:30Speaker 2:He's... But then bounced back in Minnesota. So, and the other thing I like, too, about Hargrave, just to throw this in, I don't think the Packers... We'll see what they do. I don't think the Packers are looking at Hargrave having to play three downs. I don't. Because I know there's a lot of people in Minnesota that have been saying some stuff about, well, we'll see how he does against the run and that. Again, we will see what they do against the run, but... There's also a reason why you have a Wyatt, you have a Ford, you have these other body types there too, that can help you in that regard. I think Javon Hargrave is going to, I think he's going to surprise a lot of people this year at 33 years old.

36:00Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know if, I don't know if any of the defensive tackles for the Packers, with the exception of maybe Wyatt, I don't know if any of the defensive tackles in this very deep group are going to go out there and play 50 to 60 snaps a game.

36:11Speaker 2:I think the Kenny Clark 80% thing is done now. Yeah.

36:13Speaker 1:I don't, I don't, I don't, I just don't think that's going to happen anymore. Not, not when you have this, when you have that collection, that many different guys that you believe in that you feel you can count on, you know, why wear anybody out?

36:24Speaker 2:Just so multiple, Michael. I mean, like it just, you can use Carl Brooks on first down or third down easily. You know, I think, I think Wyatt before that ankle injury last year really rounded out his game. He was defending the run really well. In addition to giving that kind of pass rush presence that we've known since his rookie season.

36:40Speaker 1:Yeah.

36:41Speaker 2:You get Brinson back on the field. He's a guy that can knife through the middle. I just, it's, It's an exciting group, man. And I think when you break it all down for the Packers, they need to get better on the lines. And we'll learn if they did or not soon enough. But, I mean, I think they did everything they possibly could, too.

36:59Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, we've gone a little bit over time here, but it's a holiday weekend coming up, so people have extra time to watch and listen and all that.

37:06Speaker 2:My dad will appreciate that.

37:07Speaker 1:With that, we will call it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow and continue following all of our coverage of this team on Packers.com. We'll be back next week. Week one, it's here. The Vikings are right around the corner. And off we go. So for Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, everybody.

37:24Speaker 2:We will see you next week.