Episode notes
In this episode of PING, we talk with Job Snijders about secure Internet routing again, focusing on an approach to preserving the state of RPKI as a longterm historical record for research and analysis. Job was last on PING to discuss the “Erik” protocol. Job has been running an archive of RPKI state for some time, as a volunteer activity but an exercise which was feasible when BGP speakers producing ROA objects was measured in the hundreds to low thousands is significantly more expensive when the population of ROA producers is a more realistic percentage of the around 80,000 AS holders…
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PING
APNIC · Tech & Science · English
PING is a podcast for people who want to look behind the scenes into the workings of the Internet. Each fortnight we will chat with people who have built and are improving the health of the Internet. The views expressed by the featured speakers are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views
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S6 · 14 Oct 2026 · 51 minNew
The [dismal] economics of AI
In this episode of PING, APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston reflects on the tremendous economic consequences of the surge in capital investment in Artificial Intelligence (AI) and the associated Data Center (DC) build out. This not involves so much money, it represents a tenth or more of the US annual Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and has significance outside of the application of AI to problems in the world. As technology consumers we’re already used to the idea the cost of basic inputs like RAM, storage devices, the GPU cards which we need to run high speed gaming computers are both in…
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S6 · 30 Sep 2026 · 28 min
The October 2026 Root KSK roll
In this episode of PING we’re hearing from Duane Wessels, a fellow from Verisign who researches DNS and who we’ve had on PING before. This time Duane is discussing the history of changes of top level Key Signing Key (KSK) called “roll-over” of the KSK at the root of the DNS. This month on the 11th of October, we will complete deployment of the 3rd KSK, in the second rollover. It’s a multi-year process. This second key roll was delayed from the first rollover in 2017 by some unexpected circumstances in 2020 and 2023. The initial KSK was deployed in 2011. In October, the new key pair will…
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S6 · 16 Sep 2026 · 57 min
"Just say no" isn't as simple as you think
In this episode of PING, APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston and I continue a discussion about the repeat queries Geoff sees on the APNIC Labs experiment. Across time this number has changed, as DNS protocol usage has changed. We now have DNS records which didn't exist when the problem was first seen, and we therefore have multiple queries about multiple things. Geoff has been exploring two facets of the DNS. Firstly, Exploring the effects how you answer "NO" has on the amount of queries you see, as well as the amount of work that has to be done by authoritative server, intermediate resolvers…
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S6 · 2 Sep 2026 · 27 min
Measuring the impact of locally served root zone
In this episode of PING, we talk with Willem Toorop from NLNet Labs and Ilyas Rahimi who recently completed a masters in Security and Network Engineering at the University of Amsterdam (UvA). They’ve been looking at the effects of local root serving. Ilyas was on a masters programme called “OS3” at UvA (from the triplet of Open Standards, Open Software and Open Security). NLNet labs is on the campus of UvA and Willem has been working with the masters programme for some time, pursuing research in DNS and DNSSEC with the students doing their masters thesis component. They conduct 2 1-month…
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S6 · 19 Aug 2026 · 42 min
DNS Cold Start
In this episode of PING, APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston and I discuss the behaviour of the DNS system when you have to come up from nothing: the “cold start” where no data exists from prior queries in your “cache”. This stems from a talk given by Ondřej Surý, that Geoff saw at the recent RIPE-92 Meeting held in Edinburgh, in the DNS working group. Cache, is the things you hold on to, from prior work done. It’s a fundamental technique in computer science to avoid the massive disparity in speed between parts of the systems, keeping things you use a lot in “fast” memory close to the CPU,…
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S6 · 22 Jul 2026 · 39 min
DNS Query Duplication
In this episode of PING, APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston and I discuss a traffic behaviour in the DNS which Geoff has noticed in the labs advertising based experimental data capture. Virtually every DNS query Geoff sees, he sees twice (or more). For a cohort of about 150 million unique DNS labels on a given day, The Labs system is collecting 270 million incoming DNS queries. Thats a lot of duplication. What's going on? The advertising data collection depends on issuing unique DNS queries, which in turn generate unique web page serves. This allows measurement of internet-wide behaviour on…
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S6 · 8 Jul 2026 · 41 min
Testing RSSAC 028 DNS root server name choices
In this episode of PING, we talk with Willem Toorop about a measurement of 6 choices for naming the root servers of the global DNS. This measurement was motivated by RSSAC 028, a 2017 technical analysis for ICANN of the naming scheme used by the root DNS servers. Root name servers are part of the global DNS system, and they provide basic bootstrapping for every other DNS resolver and authoritative name server worldwide. This is their primary role, but they also handle query load relating to the global DNS system all day and every day. There are 13 distinctly named root servers, each one…
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S6 · 24 Jun 2026 · 49 min
What ‘name-based routing’ really means
In recent PING episodes, APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston has asserted that Internet routing has shifted away from traditional IP packet forwarding. Instead, it is increasingly driven by processes that map names to addresses. It’s no longer just about your IP address or the specific endpoint you think you’re connecting to, it’s about your location and which intermediary services can most effectively handle your request. How does this actually work in practice? What processes determine where your request is served from, and who makes those decisions? In the latest episode of PING, we…
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S6 · 10 Jun 2026 · 38 min
The Erik protocol: improving RPKI data fetch
In this episode of PING we’re hearing about secure Internet Routing and its data distribution problem from Job Snijders who has been on PING before talking about his measurements in BGP and RPKI. We caught up at IETF125 in Shenzhen where Job presented to the SIDROPS working group on a new protocol he’s been designing, called Erik. The Erik protocol was named in honour of Erik Bais who died in May 2024. Erik was a stalwart of the RIPE routing community. He was a chair of the Address policy working group, and active in the Dutch cloud community and the data center association. RPKI, the…
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S6 · 27 May 2026 · 36 min
About Time
In this episode of PING, APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston and I discuss Network Time Protocol or NTP. NTP is one of the older systems we depend on, designed and implemented by Dave Mills who died in 2024. Dave had been working on time synchronisation from the mid 1970s, and cared deeply about synchronising the emerging ARPAnet and the Internet, with the pre-existing worldwide collaborative framework which regulates our sense of time, and how it relates to the world of science, astronomy and civil society. Geoff has been musing about NTP, moves to secure NTP, and the many dependencies in…
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