Better Data, Better Decisions: Nutrition Testing & Two Paths Back to the Ranch | Ep. 12

Logan Pribbeno: Welcome to the Running On Grass Podcast, where we look at the big picture down to the day-to-day on the ranch. Yeah, we like to let whatever's growing make our decisions for us. Welcome, Amon. It's glad to be here at Ladder. Yeah. I'm glad you and your family could come out. We've ⁓ enjoyed having you guys. Spent nice day afternoon yesterday looking at your cattle and seeing them move around. It's ⁓ kind of crazy. We used a piece of country we've never used before because

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Welcome to the Running On Grass Podcast where we look at the big picture down to the day to day on the ranch. Yeah, we like to let whatever's growing make our decisions for us. Welcome Amon. Glad to be here at Ladder. Yeah, I'm glad you and your family could come out. We've ⁓ enjoyed having you guys. Spent nice day afternoon yesterday looking at your cattle and seeing ⁓ move around. It's ⁓ kind of crazy. We used a piece of country we've never used before because ⁓ we have these collars on them and it was never something we could fence, but it was totally new and you got to see them go do it. Yeah, it was cool to watch them on the side hill. I driving out here I saw the panhandle in Nebraska, which is the driest

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ we have these collars on ⁓ and it was never something we could fence, but it was totally new and you got to see ⁓ go do it. Yeah, it was cool to watch ⁓ on the side hill. I ⁓ driving out here I saw the panhandle in Nebraska, which is the driest thing I've ever seen in my life. ⁓ not a shade of green. So I was very pleasantly surprised when I got up here. I saw Battle Creek Roaring and ⁓ went and looked at your pastures that have had thirty days of rest on the on the sub irrigated or the irrigated and they just look phenomenal.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: thing I've ever seen in my life. ⁓ not a shade of green. So I was very pleasantly surprised when I got up here. I saw Battle Creek Auroran and ⁓ went and looked at your pastures that have had thirty days of rest on the on the sub irrigated or the irrigated and they just look phenomenal.

Logan Pribbeno: Yeah, I think we're we're gaining a little bit every year and trying to figure out something we missed the year before and I think we're starting to get a little bit of the answer of how to graze the right way and do things. I know we've made mistakes in the past and we had more weeds come in because we were learning and and it seems like we're starting to get on top of that and get the moves right and get the timing right and those things. So it's been really fun and and ⁓ thanks for letting us test

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Yeah, I think we're we're gaining a little bit every year and trying to figure out something we missed the year before and I think we're starting to get a little bit of the answer of how to graze the right way and do things. I know we've made mistakes in the past and we had more weeds come in because we were learning and and it seems like we're starting to get on top of that and get the moves right and get the timing right and those things. So it's been really fun and and thanks for letting us test drive your cattle to do it. It's been a fun project, honestly.

Logan Pribbeno: drive your cattle to do it. It's been a fun project, honestly. I was amazed at what you had. So what what do you want to hit on today before we talk about ⁓ East Co and their sponsorship? You know, let's just for real quick, I checked out feeders this morning and they were at ⁓ three seventy. So we're almost back to three seventy six was right about the high before the Iran stuff happened. So we're we're clawing all that back. Yeah, we're we're working our way up. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: I was amazed at what you had. So what what do you want to hit on today before we talk about ⁓ East Co and their sponsorship? You know, let's just for real quick, I checked out feeders this morning and they were at ⁓ 370. So we're almost back to 376 was right about the high before the Iran stuff happened. So we're we're clawing all that back. Yeah, we're we're working our way up. Yeah. And so also I think you know, let's just have a quick update. New World's Crew.

Logan Pribbeno: And so also I think, you know, let's just have a quick update. New world screwworm, fifteen confirmed cases. Yeah, that went bacterial at least. Yeah. So ⁓ I just read a little thing and it said I'll I'll pull up my paper here, six hundred and sixty dollars a head for treatment, I think if you have an infected one. Wow. And that's probably to have your vet come out and you know, do all the things. So there's that globally could cost plus or minus a billion dollars. And ⁓ you have a hundred cow herd.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: 15 confirmed cases. Yeah, that went bacterial at least. Yeah. So ⁓ I just read a little thing and it said I'll I'll pull up my paper here, six hundred and sixty dollars a head for treatment, I think, if you have an infected one. Wow. And that's probably to have your vet come out and you know, do all the things. So there's that globally, could cost plus or minus a billion dollars. And ⁓ you have a hundred cow herd, you could get ten to thirty cases or three to fifteen deaths, depending on how active you are.

Logan Pribbeno: You could get ten to thirty cases of three to fifteen deaths, depending on how active you are at managing the wow. Yeah. That's brutal. So, you know, you start looking at thousand cow operations. Yeah. And that you know, hunt hundred is a lot. It's like if you have ten cows and two of them die or two of them lose their calves, you're like, ⁓ that was twenty percent hit. Yeah. But ⁓ you know, for a hundred cows, ten to thirty, that's ten to thirty percent of your herd. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: managing them. Wow. Wait. Yeah. That's brutal. So you know, you start looking at thousand cow operations. Yeah. And it's you know, h hundred is a lot. It's like if you have ten cows and two of them die or two of them lose their calves, you're like, God, that was twenty percent hit. Yeah. But ⁓ you know, for a hundred cows, ten to thirty, that's ten to thirty percent of your herd. Yeah. That's real numbers and you look at the same thing, you get into thousands and stuff. It's not just the qu the percentage of cattle that are in the case, it's how do you treat a hundred to three hundred cattle on a a thousand cow operation. Yeah, it's not easy. And you have to have you know, how many vets would that take and how much faster is it gonna spread when it's that many cattle in a herd? Well in Nebraska we'll just go sort ⁓ off, run ⁓ in the chute, and the vet'll come in and both processes.

Logan Pribbeno: That's real numbers and you look at the same thing, you get into thousands and that's it's not just the qu the percentage of cattle that are in the case. It's how do you treat a hundred to three hundred cattle on a th a thousand cow operation. Yeah. It's not easy. And you have to have, you know, how many vets would that take and how much faster is it gonna spread when it's that many cattle in a herd? Well, in Nebraska we'll just go sort ⁓ off, run ⁓ in the chute and the vet will come in and bulk process ⁓ a little bit different for you guys. Yeah. I

Ea'Mon O'Toole: A little bit different for you guys. Yeah, I I think we'd have to gather everything. And like we've talked before, some of my pastures to get a hundred percent gather can take us a month. You're those last ten often just they're we've we have cattle winter out sometimes, and you hope that they show up in the hay meadows because you never could find them. Yeah, so fortunately, not gonna be an issue with you. ⁓ camped out in Amon's yard last night. It I think it got down to 40. It was fully insulated. We we were snug as a

Logan Pribbeno: I think we'd have to gather everything and like we've talked before, some of my pastures to get a hundred percent gather can take us a month. You're those last ten often just they're we've we have cattle winter out sometimes and you hope that they show up in the hay meadows because you never could find ⁓ Yeah. So fortunately not gonna be an issue with you. ⁓ camped out in Amon's Yard last night. It I think it got down to forty. It was fully insulated. We w we were snug as a bug in there, but ⁓ yeah, I don't think the

Ea'Mon O'Toole: bug in there but ⁓ yeah I don't think the it's gonna wind its way up to Bags, Wyoming. Yeah, it's cold here year round. Yeah. Nice cool. Hence we're sitting outside on the deck with our pullovers on. So it's ⁓ a little chilly here in the mornings and and stays that way all night. But well let's talk a little bit. ⁓ guy named Jeff Kemp reached out to you. Tell me what he said. Yeah, so we're gonna Jeff Kemp reach reached out from Canada. He really wanted us to talk about our past back to the ranch. ⁓ he was

Logan Pribbeno: It's gonna wind its way up to Bags, Wyoming. Yeah, it's cold here year round. Yeah. Nice, cool. Hence we're sitting outside on the deck with our pullovers on. So it's ⁓ a little chilly here in the mornings and and stays that way all night. But well, let's talk a little bit. guy named Jeff Kemp reached out to you. Tell me what he said. Yeah, so we're gonna Jeff Kemp reach reached out from Canada. He really wanted us to talk about our past back to the ranch. ⁓ he was curious about my path of

Ea'Mon O'Toole: curious about my path of being required to leave for 10 years where I went to California. We're gonna hit on that. Amon and I have some really good differing perspective on that. And I think it's gonna be a lot of value for anyone who's trying to think about their kids and their pathway back. And that's gonna be a big one. And then also gonna hit on shrink and fill realities for ⁓ yearling stock operators. That's trader Aaron on Twitter suggestion on that.

Logan Pribbeno: being required to leave for 10 years where I went to California. We're gonna hit on that. Amon and I have some really good differing perspective on that. And I think it's gonna be a lot of value for anyone who's trying to think about their kids and their pathway back. And that's gonna be a big one. And then ⁓ also gonna hit on shrink and fill realities for ⁓ yearling stock operators. That's trader Aaron on Twitter suggestion on that. And then kind of the big one that we're gonna get into after the ESCO bit is going to be ⁓ nutrition content testers.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And then kind of the big one that we're gonna get into after the East Co bit is gonna be ⁓ nutrition content testers and how objective data could resh shape the beef pricing. So Joe Salatin talked about this and ⁓ we're gonna get into that. Yeah, that all sounds very good. You know, going back real quick to three seventy for ⁓ beaters today, ⁓ let's give a little shout out to East Co. I think this might be a time people wanna start looking at L R P. Yeah. And getting back into that game. Yeah, back to all time highs. If that's not a good ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: And how objective data could reshape shape the beef pricing. So Joe Salatin talked about this and ⁓ we're gonna get into that. Yeah, that all sounds very good. You know, going back real quick to 370 for ⁓ feeders today, ⁓ let's give a little shout out to East Co. I think this might be a time people want to start looking at LRP. Yeah and getting back into that game. Yeah, back to all time highs. If that's not a good excuse to do something, I don't know what is. Yeah, so ⁓ East Co.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: excuse to do something I don't know what is. Yeah, so ⁓ East Co. ⁓ quick thanks to East Co for sponsoring today's episode. East Co is a rancher owned, rancher focused insurance agency specializing in PRF, LRP, and annual forage. They do a ton of marketing but a lot of their they don't do a ton of marketing, but a lot of their team listens to the show and they think that they're, you know, really excited about it and they support us. We really appreciate that. Just like the topics we cover here are relevant to real

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ quick thanks to the East Co for sponsoring today's episode. East Co is a rancher owned, rancher focused insurance agency specializing in PRF, LRP, and annual forage. They do a ton of marketing, but a lot of their they don't do a ton of marketing, but a lot of their team listens to the show and they think that they're, you know, really excited about it and they support us. We really appreciate that. Just like the topics we cover here are relevant to real boots on the ground decision makers, the product East Co offers provide

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Boots on the ground decision makers. The product East Co offers provide tangible benefits for ranching operations across the country. Check them out at Eastcogroup.com or email info at Eastcogroup.com to learn more. So at the breakfast table, ⁓ we were talking about that nutrition tester. ⁓ you were reading that article from Joe Salatin. Give us give us an overview of what that tool is and ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: Tangible benefits for ranching operations across the country. Check them out at Eastcogroup.com or email info at escogroup.com to learn more. So at the breakfast table, ⁓ we were talking about that nutrition tester. ⁓ you were reading that article from Joe Salatin. Give us ⁓ give us an overview of what that tool is and what Joel was saying could come as a result of that. Right. So, you know, he's

Ea'Mon O'Toole: what Joel was saying could come as a result of that. Right. So, you know, he's he was very upfront about he doesn't want to talk about things before they're out and being a out ahead of it. And he said he met a guy in I think two thousand seven who came up to him and started talking about what if we were selling food based on what's in it? How much iron, how much zinc, you know, getting down to the nitty gritty and you can take out your phone, scan it, and just right there at the grocery store and say, okay, this carrot has

Logan Pribbeno: He was very upfront about he doesn't want to talk about things before they're out and being out ahead of it. And he said he met a guy in I think two thousand seven who came up to him and started talking about what if we were selling food based on what's in it? How much iron, how much zinc, you know, getting down to the nitty-gritty, and you could take out your phone, scan it, and just right there at the grocery store and say, Okay, this carrot has, you know

Ea'Mon O'Toole: you know, two parts per million of iron. Mm-hmm. Where this other carrot has two hundred parts per million of iron. And so it's basically saying you can ha you have to eat two hundred carrots to eat to have the same amount or one if it has one part per million, mm-hmm, you have to eat

Logan Pribbeno: two parts per million of iron. Where this other carrot has 200 parts per million of iron. And so it's basically saying you can you have to eat 200 carrots to eat to have the same amount or one if it has one part per million, you have to eat 200 of those carrots to equal this one other carrot that will give you the the maximum amount. And

Ea'Mon O'Toole: two hundred of those carrots to equal this one other carrot that will give you the the maximum amount. And you know, I think people's diets are gonna get down to where they're paying that close of attention of how much zinc, how much iron they need to have a day and they're really gonna and your phone will be able to or your watch or whatever is going to be able to read all that for you. But I thought that was very interesting because normally you're like a carrot's a carrot's a carrot, right? Sure. You'd think you know a reasonable person would think, ⁓ I bet there's a twenty, thirty percent

Logan Pribbeno: You know, I think people's diets are gonna get down to where they're paying that close of attention of how much zinc, how much iron they need to have a day and they're really gonna and your phone will be able to or your watch or whatever is gonna be able to read all that for you. But I thought that was very interesting because normally you're like a carrot's a carrot's a carrot, right? Sure. You'd think, you know, a reasonable person would think, ⁓ I bet there's a twenty, thirty percent difference in the nutritional content of magnesium. And what you said to highlight, it's a hundred or two hundred X.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: percent difference in the nutritional content of magnesium and what you said to highlight it's a hundred or two hundred X. So it's not ⁓ it's slightly different, it's vastly different. Yeah you're eating an orange stick that has nothing in it versus possibly ⁓ superfood. Yeah. So ⁓ really interesting stuff that they're coming out with. And then let's talk a little bit about the beef side of it. Sure. ⁓ the beef side I think is going to be huge as we've said

Logan Pribbeno: So it's not, ⁓ it's slightly different. It's vastly different. Yeah. You're eating a an orange stick that has nothing in it versus possibly ⁓ superfood. Yeah. So ⁓ really interesting stuff that they're coming out with. And then let's talk a little bit about the beef side of it. Sure. ⁓ the beef side I think is gonna be huge as we've seen that those consumer shift towards beef and really as a a health focus on the protein sector.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: that the consumer shift towards beef and really as a a health focus on the protein sector. ⁓ I ca I I can imagine a world where we have n not

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ I can't I I can imagine a world where we have n not not most Americans or many Americans, but maybe the top one to five to ten percent of Americans who are buying beef that is highly nutritious. ⁓ and they're the ones that they're having a stake ⁓ with their friends, ⁓ on their boat, at their big lake house, maybe on their yacht. And you know, they're serving something that's upwards of a hundred dollars a pound as the raw beef. And I I I I can see that scenario play out.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Not most Americans or many Americans, but maybe the top one to five to ten percent of Americans who are buying beef that is highly nutritious. ⁓ and they're the ones that they're having a stake ⁓ with their friends, ⁓ on their boat, at their big lake house, maybe on their yacht, and you know, they're serving something that's upwards of a hundred dollars a pound as the raw beef. And I I I I can see that scenario play out as we shift into this new AI world where ⁓ you know,

Logan Pribbeno: as we shift into this new AI world where ⁓ you know money becomes something that it has not been. And I think that plays into the beef industry. And I think that will filter right back into the cattle industry as well. Yeah. Money's becoming a different tool for the average American where it used to be just the rich guys could, you know, use these shares or their stocks and they were, you know, getting loans and money

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Buddy. becomes something that it has not been. And I think that plays into the beef industry. And I think that will filter right back into the cattle industry as well. Yeah, money's becoming a different tool for the average American where it used to be just the rich guys could, you know, use these shares or their stocks and they were, you know, getting loans and money based on that. And it wasn't really real to them. And now I think with Bitcoin and different tools like that, the average American

Logan Pribbeno: Based on that, and it wasn't really real to them. And now I think with Bitcoin and different tools like that, the average American's money is fluctuating so much. And so a hundred dollars a pound is a lot of money. Yeah, it is. And like you said, top one, top ten percent, that's who would be interested in stuff like this. But when you see a spike that day and your Bitcoin went up and you're now worth fifty thousand dollars more than you were when you woke up this morning. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Money is fluctuating so much. And so $100 a pound is a lot of money. Yeah, it is. And like you said, top one, top ten percent, that's who would be interested in stuff like this. But when you see a spike that day and your Bitcoin went up and you're now worth $50,000 more than you were when you woke up this morning, let's go have a hundred dollar a pound steak. Yeah, why not? We made it. Yeah, and to be clear, I think I don't think that 90% of Americans will touch this beef.

Logan Pribbeno: Let's go have a hundred dollar pound steak. Yeah, why not celebrate? We made it. Yeah. And it and to be clear, I think I don't think that ninety percent of Americans will touch this this beef. No, you're right. Yeah. And so people are like, ⁓ you know, that'll never happen. You know, I think beef will break it it will allow beef to break out of the commoditization. So I'm not I'm not don't think I'm being too radical in that it's gonna be like a jacket. You know what I mean? There are people who buy sixty dollar jackets.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Yeah, and so people are gonna be like, ⁓ you know, that'll never happen. You know, I think beef will break it it will allow beef to break out of the commoditization. So I'm not I'm not don't think I'm being too radical in that. It's gonna be like a jacket. You know what I mean? There are people who buy sixty dollar jackets. This is one of them. This guy this right here. There are people who buy six hundred dollar jackets, the premium jackets, and there are people who buy six thousand dollar jackets. There are people who buy sixty thousand dollar jackets

Logan Pribbeno: This is one of them. Right here. There are people who buy six hundred dollar jackets, the premium jackets. And there are people who buy six thousand dollar jackets. There are people who buy sixty thousand dollar jackets. And I don't think it's absurd to think that beef could could explore a similar pricing model to where it's, you know, we don't go for, ⁓ a really nice jacket's two X, a really nice jacket's ten, twenty, a hundred X. Yep. So and that's that's a a a a nearly commoditized example. Those

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And I don't think it's absurd to think that beef could could explore a similar pricing model to where it's, you know, we don't go for, ⁓ a really nice jacket's two X, a really nice jacket's ten, twenty, a hundred X. Yep. So and that's that's a a a a nearly commoditized example. Those six thousand dollar jackets don't do a heck of lot better job than the sixty dollar jackets. It is the wealth signaling that comes with it. And I think we could live in a really cool world where people would use ⁓ their

Logan Pribbeno: six thousand dollar jackets don't do a heck of a lot better job than the sixty dollar jackets. It is the wealth signaling that comes with it. And I think we could live in a really cool world where people would use ⁓ their diets to signal that that wealth. How does your ranch become the ⁓ Louis Vuitton of beef? So I and I love this because I love Valentation. You guys know that about me.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: diets to signal that that wealth. How does your ranch become the Louis Vuitton of beef? So I love this because I love Alan Nation. You guys know that about me. ⁓ Alan Nation said that the the beef sector is eventually going to shift into the wine sector. And there'll be broad differentiation among different different cuts, different styles of aging. ⁓ And Alan Nation also is on the record as saying that he very seldom

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ Alan Nation said that the the beef sector is eventually going to shift into the wine sector. And there'll be broad differentiation among different different cuts, different styles of aging. ⁓ and Alan Nation also was on the record in saying that he very seldom was wrong, ⁓ but he did oftentimes get the time and the scale wrong.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: was wrong. ⁓ but he did oftentimes get the time and the scale wrong. ⁓ and so this is really I'm stealing from Alan Nation here, which and whenever I do this, it's been good. It's been a good thing. So I I am just borrowing from Alan Nation here and I really s can see ⁓ you know a Napa valley of beef emerging

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ and so this is really I'm stealing from Alan Nation here, which and whenever I do this, it's been good. It's been a good thing. So I I am just borrowing from Alan Nation here and I really s conceive ⁓ you know, a Napa valley of beef emerging ⁓ in the next five years. Yeah, let's talk about that because they he brings that up about the wine tasting experience and the difference. And that's an international thing with wine. Yeah. And I think we get there with beef too. But I had an old timer tell me several years ago

Ea'Mon O'Toole: ⁓ in the next five years. Yeah, let's talk about that 'cause they he brings that up about the wine tasting experience and the difference. And that's an international thing with wine. Yeah. And I think we get there with beef too. But I had an old timer tell me several years ago the best beef starts at I seventy and goes north. Yeah. Something about the change in grasses and in in the Joe Salton article it talks about I think the mineral content and different ⁓ natural observations and grass

Logan Pribbeno: The best beef starts at I seventy and goes north. Yeah. Something about the change in grasses. And in in the Joe Salatin article, it talks about I think the mineral content and different ⁓ natural observations and grasses up here in the north give that beef an advantage in flavoring, just like wine country based on soils. I think we have the same kind of soil things north of I seventy that create that.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Up here in the north give that beef an advantage in flavoring, just like wine country based on soils. I think we have the same kind of soil things north of I seventy that create that. And I had never thought about that until the guy brought it up and I was probably in my twenties and you know, very f very little stuck, but that did. And I thought now reading this this morning that kinda clicked for me. Yeah, you'll notice on Superior their region two, I believe it is, is they include Kansas to I seventy.

Logan Pribbeno: And I had never thought about that until the guy brought it up and I was probably in my twenties and you know, very f very little stuck, but that did. And I thought now reading this this morning, that kind of clicked for me. Yeah, you'll notice on Superior, their region two, I believe it is, is they include Kansas. Two I seventy. Right. Yeah. Those guys get get a little bump in the prices because of that. Yeah. So ⁓ anyway, what do you think about that that theory of, you know

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Right. Yeah. Those guys get get a little bump in the prices because of that. Yeah. So ⁓ anyway, what do you think about that that theory of, you know, is that best beef gonna be from this region up here north of I seventy or is

Logan Pribbeno: Is that best beef gonna be from this region up here north of I 70? Or is are the genetics and other things going to be able to overcome that for other parts of the country to be able to take advantage of those high prices? So what Jo Joe Salatin says is that it is a the the ⁓ nutritional content of what they consume, so the soil health of what they consume, and also he said the diversity of what they're allowed to consume.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Are the genetics and other things gonna be able to overcome that for other parts of the country to be able to take advantage of those high prices? So what Jo Joe Salatin says is that it is a the the ⁓ nutritional content of what they consume, so the soil health of what they consume and also he said the diversity of what they're allowed to consume. So the healthier the soils and the more diversity that the cattle have to choose, the higher the nutrient density. And this is this isn't to take it from a one to a two, this is to take it from the one to two hundred. ⁓ and so you're looking at a super niche product. And again, I'd I I sell commodity beef, plan to sell commodity beef, but I I really just can't help but think that the top ten percent

Logan Pribbeno: So the healthier the soils and the more diversity that the cattle have to choose, the higher the nutrient density. And this is this isn't to take it from a one to a two, this is to take it from the one to two hundred. ⁓ and so you're looking at a super niche product. And again, I'd I I sell commodity beef, plan to sell commodity beef, but I I really just can't help but think that the top 10% is gonna be super niche and it will be slowly finished on a div a diverse group of foods.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: is gonna be super niche and it will be slowly finished on a div a diverse group of foods that will probably happen most of the time on the pasture and the rangeland. I don't think it's exclusive. I think that I think a feed yard could replicate this using purchase feeds if they're very selective about where they get their purchase feeds. And the beef. Yes. And the those cattle. Let's, you know, just give everybody a little quick insight. This winter you and I ate at a steakhouse. Yeah, we did. And they had a very they had a

Logan Pribbeno: That will probably happen most of the time on the pasture and the rangeland. I don't think it's exclusive. I think that I think a feed yard could replicate this using purchase feeds if they're very selective about where they get their purchase feeds. And that beef. Yes. And that those cattle. Yep. Let's, you know, just give everybody a little quick insight. This winter you and I ate at a steakhouse. Yeah, we did. And they had a very they had a very expensive flight. It was a hundred dollars for the flight, but it was more beef than either of us wanted. Yeah. So we shared it. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Very expensive flight. It was a hundred dollars for the flight, but it was more beef than either of us wanted. Yeah. So we shared it. Yeah. And it was a USDA Prime. Yep. It was an Aka Uchi. Yep. And it was an A5 Wagyu. Yep. A five Wagyu. A five Wagyu. And we both agreed that we thought that the Aka UShi was the best product that out of the three samplings. Yeah. And I thought the Prime, the USDA Prime was as good a piece of meat as

Logan Pribbeno: And it was a USDA Prime. Yep. It was an Aka USI. Yep. And it was an A5 Wagyu. Yep. A5 Wagyu. A5 Wagyu. And we both agreed that we thought that the Aka Uchi was the best product that out of the three samplings. Yeah. And I thought the Prime, the USDA Prime was as good a piece of meat as one would ever want. Yeah. And ⁓ but when you have those other

Ea'Mon O'Toole: one would ever want. Yeah. And ⁓ but when you have those other pieces that were that much ⁓ easier to chew, flavorful,

Logan Pribbeno: pieces that were that much easier to chew, flavorful. ⁓ and then but the A five I thought was almost too fat. Yeah. For me. Yeah. And but the Akaushi just kind of hit that spot. Yeah. And so I think when we have that conversation, it leads us back to this conversation of who are gonna be the people that have that Louis Vuitton of beef that can charge a hundred dollars an a pound. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And then but the eight five I thought was almost too fat for me. Yeah. And but the Akaushi just kinda hit that spot. Yeah. And so I think when we have that conversation, it leads us back to this conversation of who are gonna be the people that have that Louis Vuitton of beef that can charge a hundred dollars an a a pound. Yeah. Yeah, and and ⁓ honestly when you you know, so steakhouses are they're already charging a hundred dollars a pound for the steak. So if they're buying it for one, two, three hundred pounds, ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: Yeah, and and ⁓ honestly when you you know, so steakhouses are already already charging a hundred dollars a pound for the steak. So if they're buying it for one, two, three hundred pounds ⁓ on the beef, they're gonna be selling it for like a thousand bucks a pound to get their to get their steakhouse margin. Yeah, 'cause that was like fifteen ounces the thing we had. Yeah. Not quite a pound, a hundred dollars. Yeah. Yeah. There it there it was. Here we But

Ea'Mon O'Toole: on the beef, they're gonna be selling it for like a thousand bucks a pound to get their to get their steakhouse margin. Yeah, because that was like fifteen ounces the thing we had. Yeah. Not quite a pound, a hundred dollars. Yeah. So there it there it was. Here we are. And but you and I were like, well we can handle a fifty dollar dinner and I don't need I only need eight or so ounces. So let's just split this thing and so it's I mean we're there technically. Yeah. But I think it'd be it could be a huge game changer for ranchers in particular, ⁓ which is our target audience here in if you

Logan Pribbeno: You and I were like, well, we can handle a fifty dollar dinner and I don't need I only need eight or so ounces. So let's just split this thing. And so it's I mean, we're there technically. Yeah. But I think it'd be it could be a huge game changer for ranchers in particular, ⁓ which is our target audience here. And if you know, if you could if you could figure out how to do this and and to be quick on the curve, I think that there will there will be food companies that specialize in this if they don't already exist.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: know, if you could if you could figure out how to do this and and to be quick on the curve, I think that there will there will be food companies that specialize in this if they don't already exist that will migrate into the beef sector and I think they'll be looking for the super high quality beef and I think at least initially they're gonna be paying a lot for it because ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: that will migrate into the beef sector. And I think they'll be looking for the super high quality beef. And I think at least initially they're going to be paying a lot for it because ⁓ of the demand that that I see if we can turn a small segment of the beef into the Napa Valley style of sales. Yeah. And just figuring out where those zones are going to be. Yeah. Cause ⁓ I have run Akaushi cattle before. Yeah. And I've kept some, finished them out. They were fantastic.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: of the demand that that I see if we can turn a small segment of the beef into the Napa Valley style of sales. Yeah. And just figuring out where those zones are gonna be. Yeah. Cause ⁓ I have run Akaushi cattle before. Yeah. And I've kept some, finished them out. They were fantastic. I'm sure I didn't finish them the way that they ultimately could be finished to be that product that we tasted. Sure. But ⁓ excellent product and I but those Akaushi guys, a lot of

Logan Pribbeno: I'm sure I didn't finish them the way that they ultimately could be finished to be that product that we tasted. Sure. But ⁓ excellent product. And I but those Akaushi guys, a lot of them, the biggest guys in Texas at Heartbrand. Okay. And so that's where I leased my Akaushi bulls from. Yeah. And I thought that that was ⁓ very interesting that, you know, that's a a Texas product when we talk about the best potential grass and and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: them the biggest guys in Texas at Heartbrand. And so that's where I leased my Akuchi bulls from. Yeah. And I thought that that was very interesting that you know that's a a Texas product when we talk about the best potential grass and and average animal being so good at north of that I seventy level. Sure. But is that maybe peop makes the value of either the land or or

Logan Pribbeno: average animal being so good at north of that I seventy level. Sure. But is that maybe peop makes the value of either the land or or or the beef more because it's up in this region. Yeah. Exiting commodity style ⁓ products like they do in the wine industry is a game changer. You know, I don't know what property sells for in Napa, but it's not a thousand dollars an acre.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Or the beef more because it's up in this region. Yeah. Exiting commodity style ⁓ products like they do in the wine industry is a game changer. You know, I don't know what property sells for in Napa, but it's not a thousand dollars an acre or ten thousand dollars an acre even. I think you're c pushing a hundred thousand dollars an acre stuff. But let's w go back and talk about the wine industry for a second, where they've had this big dive because this n younger generation's not drinking alcohol the way that our generation and older did. And I think that what's happening

Logan Pribbeno: Or ten thousand dollars an acre even. I think you're cl pushing the hundred thousand dollars an acre stuff. Easily. But let's w go back and talk about the wine industry for a second, where they've had this big dive because this n younger generation's not drinking alcohol the way that our generation and older did. And I think that what's happened with all of us getting to where we have more prime today than we have choice, it made those guys that were the select.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: With all of us getting to where we have more prime today than we have choice. It made those guys that were the select Aka Uchi guys or the select Wagyu guys took away a lot of their thunder because now everybody k is producing this great product. Yeah. Yeah, and if you look at the demand structure, premium, the the Wagyu and the

Logan Pribbeno: Akaushi guys or the Select Wagyu guys took away a lot of their thunder because now everybody c is producing this great product. Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at the demand structure premium, the the Wagyu and the Akaushi has collapsed. ⁓ there's not much of a premium. And that that is typical when you have the market go off the rails like it has, the demand structure just kind of collapses and you get Select being

Ea'Mon O'Toole: has collapsed. ⁓ there's not much of a premium. And that that is typical when you have the market go off the rails like it has, the demand structure just kind of collapses and you get select being you know so expensive 'cause people are value shopping. And that's what I found running Akaushis was at the beginning it was a little better. Yeah. It was better than my good high quality steers that I was putting on trucks. Yeah. And then at the end, by the time you weaned them and did all the extra stuff, you weren't

Logan Pribbeno: You know, so expensive 'cause people are value shopping. And that's what I found running Aka Ushis was at the beginning it was a little better. Yeah. It was better than my good high quality steers that I was putting on trucks. Yeah. And then at the end, by the time you weaned them and did all the extra stuff, you weren't really making any more money than your good quality steers. And so I finally in in our operation we said, let's just make more good steers. Yeah. And we had And we don't have to do all the work. And we had that exact experience with Gap Four, being Gap4 certified.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Really making any more money than your good quality steers. And so I finally in in our operation we said, let's just make more good steers. Yeah. And we had and we don't have do all the work. And we had that exact experience with Gap Four, being Gap Four certified. In the beginning it was it was fairly good, and we were buying gap caps, starting them and selling them, and the premium just was not there to justify the cost and loss production and ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: In the beginning it was it was fairly good and we were buying gap calf, starting them and selling them, and the premium just was not there to justify the cost and loss production. And ⁓ same kind of thing, which is which is fairly typical in, you know, when you we've seen this historic run up where live cattle and feeder cattle have far exceeded the S P five hundred when it has been on a ripper. ⁓ you know, you kind of see those those

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Same kind of thing. Which is which is fairly typical in, you know, when you we've seen this historic run up where live cattle and feeder cattle have far exceeded the S P five hundred when it has been on a ripper. ⁓ you know, you kind of see those those premium structures collapse. Right. And that's what Dan Kiltridge, the guy in Joe Salton's article, said is that

Logan Pribbeno: premium structures collapse. Right. And that's what Dan Kiltridge, the guy in Joe Salton's article, said is that he was disgusted by what's happened with the USDA and how they do organics and all these other things. And then you get into the same things that you're talking about, the gaps and the price structure just doesn't fit into you all that stuff's cool and we all want to do a great job and be organic and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: He was disgusted by what's happened with the USDA and how they do organics and all these other things and then you get into the same things that you're talking about, the gaps and the price structure just doesn't fit into you all that stuff's cool and we all want to do a great job and be organic and and raise natural calves or whatever your thing is. But

Logan Pribbeno: Yeah. And raise natural calves or whatever your thing is, but you can't afford to do it at the price of going out of business. Yeah. I would agree. I would tell you just taking it back to the ranch, the meadows that I saw yesterday are the meadows that are going to produce that hundred dollar an acre beef. I mean, just nutrient dense. The soils were super aggregate. ⁓ you had clover out there. I mean, ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: You can't afford to do it at the price of going out of business. Yeah. I would agree. I would tell you just taking it back to the ranch, the meadows that I saw yesterday are the meadows that are gonna produce that hundred dollar an acre beef. I mean, just nutrient dense, the soils were super aggregate, ⁓ you had clover out there. I mean, ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: twenty different species of cool season grasses and cool season grasses are higher in quality. What I saw was absolutely something that would produce some of the highest nutritional content beef on planet Earth. And and the only thing we can grow here is cool season grasses. Like we said, we've got our sweatshirts or our jackets on this morning just because it's always cold here. Yeah. And you know, I don't not to toot my horn, but to tell people what you saw in the soil yesterday when you dug up some

Ea'Mon O'Toole: twenty different species of cool season grasses and cool season grasses are higher in quality. What I saw was absolutely something that would produce some of the highest nutritional content beef on planet Earth. And and the only thing we can grow here is cool season grasses, like we said, we've got our sweatshirts or our jackets on this morning just 'cause it's always cold here. Yeah. And you know, I don't not to toot my horn, but to tell people what you saw in the soil yesterday when you dug up some some actual dirt. Well, first of all I stuck my pocket knife in there and there w there's no compaction, but it was so aggregated that I I had trouble lifting it up and it was just a root mass ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: some actual dirt. Well, first of all, I stuck my pocket knife in there and there would there's no compaction, but it was so aggregated that I I had trouble lifting it up. And it was just a root mass. ⁓ like I have very rarely seen. And ⁓ the smell was great. It was the darkest loam I can imagine. yeah, very I I saw ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: like I have very rarely seen and ⁓ the smell was great. It was the darkest loam I can imagine. Yeah, very I I saw ⁓ you know, something that was very resilient, ⁓ and gonna produce a wonderful nutrient dense food for the cattle. Yeah, we we saw some manure from thirty days ago that had been grazed and that manure was almost totally broke down already. Thirty days. And and then we found some other stuff and we just kicked the top off of it and it had all sorts of little creepy grolies in there working on it. Active soil biology. Yeah, pretty exciting. And just

Logan Pribbeno: You know, something that was very resilient, ⁓ and gonna produce a wonderful nutrient dense food for the cattle. Yeah, we we saw some manure from 30 days ago that had been grazed, and that manure was almost totally broke down already. Yeah, 30 days. And and then we found some other stuff and we just kicked the top off of it and it had all sorts of little creepy crawlies in there working on it. Active soil biology. Yeah, pretty exciting. And just, you know, I I wanna go back. We've been doing this.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: You know, I I wanna go back. We've been doing this this kind of grazing on this level really for three years. And we started with you send me three hundred the first year and I was like, well, I'll dip my toes in see what happens and try not to kill anything. And then you know, now we have nine hundred in a group. Yeah. And they have already grazed that and like you said, it's already coming back and and we looked at the how much have been bitten off and what had regrown from that bite versus what was all new from those bites. And we went to some

Logan Pribbeno: this kind of grazing on this level really for three years. And we started with what do you send me three hundred the first year and I was like, well I'll dip my toes in. See what happens. See what happens and try not to kill anything. Sure. And then, you know, now we have nine hundred in a group. Yeah. And they have already grazed that. And like you said, it's already coming back. And and we looked at the how much have been bitten off and what had regrown from that bite versus what was all new from those bites. And we went to several different pastures that

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Several different pastures that were anywhere from thirty thirty days almost every week from ⁓ thirty days in, and you could just see the levels change as we went to those different paddocks. Yeah, and then that first one where it was thirty days, it was totally recovered. Yeah, we're going back in there either this afternoon or tomorrow, depending on how our new new hillside paddock with virtual fence works. Sure. It's fun to see. Yeah. Yeah. Tell them tell them about my screw up last night in.

Logan Pribbeno: We're anywhere from thirty, thirty days almost every week from thirty days in. And you could just see the levels change as we went to those different paddocks. Yeah. And then that first one where it was thirty days, it was totally recovered. Yeah, we're going back in there either this afternoon or tomorrow, depending on how our new new hillside paddock with ⁓ virtual fence works. Sure. Be fun to see. Yeah. Yeah. Tell ⁓ Tell them about my screw up last night and the water gap for all those yearlings. ⁓ yeah. Just the w moved ⁓ into that new pasture and they weren't focused on the water at all and ⁓ which has happened 'cause you guys moved ⁓ in roughly like four o'clock or something like that. Well, they all decided they were gonna get a drink of water at the same time about seven or eight PM and just wasn't big enough. Had some get pushed out, you know how it is. Just like Polly.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: ⁓ water gap for all those yearlings. yeah. Just the w moved ⁓ into that new pasture and they weren't focused on the water at all and Which has happened 'cause you guys moved ⁓ in roughly like four o'clock or something like that. Well, they all decided they were gonna get a drink of water at the same time, about seven or eight PM and just wasn't big enough, had some get pushed out, you know, how it is. Just like Polly. Same thing with Polly. And we did put a Polly around there because we that's part of our horse pasture. And so we when they we don't want the horses finding that virtual fence hole and going out into our alfalfa that was just grazed. Yeah. And so we put up an actual ver an actual electric

Logan Pribbeno: Same thing with Polly. And we did put a Polly around there because we that's part of our horse pasture. And so we when they we don't want the horses finding that virtual fence hole and going out into our alfalfa that was just grazed. Yeah. And so we put up an actual ver an actual electric fence and apparently the yearlings will respect a virtual, but not an electric. Yeah. So always a learning curve. Yeah. Yeah. We're

Ea'Mon O'Toole: fence and apparently the yearlings will respect a virtual but not an electric. Always a learning curve. Yeah, yeah we're we're constantly I I'm gonna put up a sign at the bottom of our ranch that says Ladder Ranch for profit research center. Yes. Wine glass ranch is the same way. You wanna talk about shrink and fill for

Logan Pribbeno: We're constantly I I'm gonna put up a sign at the bottom of our ranch that says Ladder Ranch for Profit Research Center. Yes. I w Wine Glass Ranch is the same way. You wanna talk about shrink and fill for yearling operators and just how that important that is and then we can get into how we got back to the ranch and advice that we have for for Yeah, and I'll let you kind of lead in with the yearling stuff 'cause I I do the yearling thing on a level of I'm trying to breed heifers and I'm not as worried

Ea'Mon O'Toole: yearling operators and just how that how important that is and then we can get into how we got back to the ranch and advice that we have for Yeah, and I'll let you kinda lead in with the yearling stuff 'cause I I do the yearling thing on a level of I'm trying to breed heifers and I'm not as worried as worried about weights except for in the beginning, what they weigh when I buy ⁓ yeah. And what they weigh when we sell ⁓ But in the middle, I don't really care. I I try to figure

Logan Pribbeno: as worried about weights except for in the beginning ⁓ what they weigh when I buy ⁓ yeah and what they weigh when we sell them. But in the middle, I don't really care. I I kind of figure good things will happen if we do it right. Yeah. And but you got to get them bought at the w right weight so that you know they're gonna be the weight you want when it's time to sell them. Yeah. So I'd say those two two dates, depending on when you buy ⁓ So if

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Good things will happen if we do it right. Yeah. And but you gotta get them bought at the right weight so that you know they're gonna be the weight you want when it's time to sell them. Yep. So I'd say those two two dates, depending on when you buy them. So if we bought ours early, and this is the first time we've ever done this. We started buying in January, February, because I was worried there weren't gonna be any cattle again. Because I was going back to my original sources and they didn't exist. The cattle weren't there. Yeah, whether they were keeping them as replacements or they

Logan Pribbeno: We bought ours early. And this is the first time we've ever done this. We started buying in January, February, because I was worried there weren't going to be any cattle again because I was going back to my original sources and they didn't exist. The cattle weren't there. Yeah. Whether they were keeping them as replacements or they went to town, whatever, those cattle didn't exist in the normal places I was finding them. So I got a little worried and I went ahead and started buying cattle. And then all of a sudden the spring it was flooded again. And I probably could have bought those cattle and saved a lot of

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Went to town, whatever, those cattle didn't exist in the normal places I was finding them. So I got a little worried and I went ahead and started buying cattle, and then all of a sudden the spring it was flooded again, and I probably could have bought those cattle and saved a lot of ⁓ yardage money, but who knew? Yeah, who knew we weren't gonna have a winter or a spring across Wyoming and Montana and everywhere. So first off, I just want to point out I'm not on the level of yearling purchaser because you run steers, yeah, which is a totally different

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ yardage money, but w who knew? Yeah. Who knew we weren't gonna have a winter or a spring across Wyoming and Montana and everywhere. So ⁓ first off, I just want to point out I'm not on the level of yearling purchaser because you run steers, yeah, which is a totally different game than breeding heifers. Yeah. So and when you sell a bread heifer, you sell it by the head. Right. So really it kind of takes the shrink out of play. And you're selling to other ranchers who ⁓ maybe don't understand that as well.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: game than breeding heifers. Yeah, so when you sell a bread heifer you sell it by the head. Right. So really it kinda takes the shrink out of play. And you're selling to other ranchers who ⁓ maybe don't understand that as well. ⁓ I c I can tell you as a stalker operator, the shrink in the fill will make make or break you. So if you look at like a ten weight steer and you sell him for a three percent shrink and then also the water was a little bit dirty. ⁓ and so he really just was balking at the water the day before you went to sell him. And then also he was in the the last pasture for ⁓ the you know the last month and he really wasn't that hungry. He was loafing by the tank waiting

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ I c I can tell you as a stalker operator, the shrink in the fill will make make or break you. So if you look at like a 10 weight steer and you sell him for a 3% shrink, and then also the water was a little bit dirty. ⁓ and so he really just was balking at the water the day before you went to sell him. And then also he was in the the last pasture for ⁓ the you know the last month and he really wasn't that hungry. He was loafing by the tank waiting for it to magically appear.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: for it to magically appear good water, which I've seen yearling operators do, or yearlings do, the you know, especially steers. So how much water can you put in a ten weight steer?

Logan Pribbeno: Good water, which I've seen yearling operators do, or yearlings do. The you know, especially steers. So how much water can you put in a 10 weight steer? Well, I don't know. ⁓ like 30, 40, 50 pounds, I don't think is is out of is that in a day? That's that is if there are full of water. And yearlings, ⁓ you can take a look at ⁓ they're really easy to manage. On the left side is their rumen.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Well, I don't know. ⁓ like thirty, forty, fifty pounds, I don't think is is out of Is that in a day? That's that is if they're are full of water. And yearlings, ⁓ you can take a look at ⁓ they're really easy to manage. On the left side is their rumen. So if their left side is full, they are full of feed. Their right side is whatever stomach holds the water. I can't remember what it is ⁓ off the top of my head right now, but ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: So if their left side is full, they are full of feed. Their right side is whatever stomach holds the water. I can't remember what it is ⁓ off the top of my head right now, but ⁓ on the right side is if they're full of water and you can see, and if you send a yearling on a truck for sale and it's empty on both sides and you sold them at a three percent shrink, I think you're off at least ten percent, which ⁓ could very well be your margin. So managing that fill in the shrink is is super important. And it actually matters for calves, it's not the same.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: side is if they're full of water and you can see and if you send a yearling on a truck for sale and it's empty on both sides and you sold them at a three percent shrink, I think you're off at least ten percent, which could very well be your margin. So managing that bill in the shrink is is super important. And it actually matters for calves, it's not the same ⁓ just because you're working with percentages here and you can't get the same amount of water feed in a calf and all that. But I this winter I bought

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ just because you're working with percentages here. You can't get a the same amount of water feed in a calf and all that. But I this winter I bought a potload of heifers that gained weight from the sail ring to the feedlot. What? Yes. Not a lot, but I had the I had the order buyer call me. You know, there's someone messed up and they sent calves, balling calves probably and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: a potload of heifers that gained weight from the sail ring to the feedlot. What? Yes. Not a lot, but I had the I had the order buyer call me, you know, that s someone messed up and they sent calves, balling calves probably, and ⁓ you know, they probably didn't eat or drink or anything like that. They put ⁓ back in they sold ⁓ they put ⁓ back in, they kinda settled down and yeah, I have purchased calves that have gained weight on the truck.

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ you know, they probably didn't eat or drink or anything like that. They put ⁓ back in. They sold ⁓ They put ⁓ back in. They kind of settled down and yeah, I have purchased calves that have gained weight on the truck. God bless you. Somebody somebody's looking out for you. Yeah, w one. I I I did it one time. One out of thousands. Yeah, one out of a thousand. But man, I I really do like the thousand. But it it's just it's so important ⁓ to get that right.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: God bless you. Somebody somebody's looking out for you. Yeah, w one. I I I did it one time. One out of thousands of things. Yeah, one out of a thousand. But man, I I really do like the thousand. But it it's just it's so important, ⁓ to get that right and w you know, that is one of the reasons that Trader Aaron was was reaching out was he puts his on feet a lot, ⁓ but it's really hard to get that right, especially in a video scenario where you're not in control of a lot of the circumstances. And it's one of the reasons that we're shifting to

Logan Pribbeno: And w you know, that is one of the reasons that Trader Aaron was was reaching out was he puts his on feet a lot. ⁓ but it's really hard to get that right, especially in a video scenario where you're not in control of a lot of the circumstances. And it's one of the reasons that we're shifting to s for sale at the barn. We can put the sort on ⁓ at the ranch. We sort ⁓ you know, ourselves what we want to send ⁓ to ⁓ and can really get this this sort of thing straightened out. And like I said, it will make or break ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: for sale at the barn. We can put the sort on ⁓ at the ranch. We sort ⁓ you know, ourselves what we want to send, ⁓ to them and can really get this this sort of thing straightened out. And like I said, it will make or break a a stalker operator. Right. I think, you know, we've got a couple notes here, like handling, timing, and nutrition management. And I wouldn't I would I'll talk more about the handling side of it. So out here in the West, everybody has their own scales. Yes. Whether it's portable or fixed at your corrals, everybody has or should have their own scales because our operations are generally large enough

Logan Pribbeno: a stocker operator. Right. I think, you know, we've got a couple notes here, like handling timing and nutrition management. And I wouldn't I would I'll talk more about the handling side of it. So out here in the West, everybody has their own scales. Yes. Whether it's portable or fixed at your corrals, everybody has or should have their own scales because our operations are generally large enough that the shrink, the loss from putting them on the truck to going to the scale in town, which

Ea'Mon O'Toole: that the shrink the loss from putting them on the truck to going to the scale in town which for some operations is fifty miles. Yeah. Twenty twenty, fifty miles is not unheard of at all. Yeah. There's a lot of shrink that happens there. Yeah. And goes out the side of the truck. And well on a heifer, yes, but on a steer you're you're collecting most of it.

Logan Pribbeno: For some operations it's fifty miles. Yeah. Twenty, twenty, fifty miles is not unheard of at all. Yeah. There's a lot of shrink that happens there. Yeah. And goes out the side of the truck. And well, on a heifer, yes, but on a steer, you're you're collecting most of it. On is the numbers that we ran is if you buy, if you have a scale at the house, yeah, it will pay for itself the first year. Okay. Interesting. On a on a five hundred cal operation. Five hundred cow operation. Interesting. It will pay for itself. So if you're a

Ea'Mon O'Toole: On is the numbers that we ran is if you buy if you have a scale at the house, yeah, it will pay for itself the first year. Okay. Interesting. On a on a five hundred cow operation. Five hundred cow operation, interesting. It will pay for itself. So if you're a two hundred, two hundred and fifty cow operation or even a hundred cow operation, you need to run those numbers and see, you know, is that payoff five years, is that payoff ten years or two years or whatever that looks like. Yeah. But I think that having having the correct facilities

Logan Pribbeno: 200, 250 cow operation or even a hundred cow operation, you need to run those numbers and see, you know, is that payo five years? Is that payo 10 years or two years or whatever that looks like? Yeah. But I think that having having the correct facilities and, you know, having a bunch of panels set up that's just kind of a ⁓ you use it once a year. I know that it's it's hard to pencil that if you're a smaller operator. Yeah. But I think over time you will absolutely make your money back if you

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And, you know, having a bunch of panels set up that's just kind of a ⁓ you use it once a year. I know that it's it's hard to pencil that if you're a smaller operator. Yeah. But I think over time you will absolutely make your money back if you put in a good set of corrals. Yep. And I I agree, Eamon, and this goes back to you and I just being so different. We've never sold a ball and calf ever. ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: put in a good set of corrals. Yep. And I I agree, Eamon. And this goes back to you and I just being so different. We've never sold a ball and calf ever. ⁓ we're always selling yearlings and just the extreme stress that that calf experienced as soon as it's pulled from its mom versus a 10 weight steer. Yeah. That just So yeah, it's like you can go run up and pet the thing, you know, and it's been on the truck three or four times. So I think what we're hitting on here is you're right.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: We're always selling yearlings and just the extreme stress that that calf experienced as soon as it's pulled from its mom versus a ten weight steer. Yeah. That just So yeah, it's like you can go and run up and pet the thing, you know, and it's been on the truck three or four times. So I think what we're hitting on here is you're right in that man when you saw that ball and calf, you need to get him on that scale. Yep. Like he he is stressed to the max, he's looking for mom, he is pissing and shitting and just

Logan Pribbeno: In that man, when you saw that ball and calf, you need to get him on that scale. Yep. Like he he is stressed to the max. He's looking for mom. He is pissing and shitting and just stressed. And a ten weight earling steeler, it'll be the sixth or seventh time to the corral and sixth or s sixth time on the truck. So just different experiences. Yep. And in our specific operation, we have we can sort four ways right there at our in our alleyway.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: This stressed and the 10-weight yearly stealer, it'll be the sixth or seventh time to the corral and sixth or sixth time on the truck. So just different experiences. Yep, and in our specific operation, we have we can sort four ways right there at our in our alleyway. So we'll send heifers one way, and we often keep our heifers, retain them, wean them, and then either sell them or keep replacements and get rid of what we don't want, or you know, however, we decide to do that from year to year, and it does and it

Logan Pribbeno: So we'll send heifers one way and we often keep our heifers, retain them, wean them, and then either sell ⁓ or keep replacements and get rid of what we don't want, or you know, however, we decide to do that from year to year, and it does and it varies. And then but the steers they go straight through. We have an alleyway, it's not a hundred yards from where the sort happens. We have a guy waiting there. As soon as he's got a scale full, he takes them up, they're on the scale within probably often w two minutes. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: berries and then but the steers they go straight through we have an alleyway it's not a hundred yards from where the sort happens we have a guy waiting there as soon as he's got a scale full he takes them up they're on the scale within probably often two minutes yeah they have left their mother's side they have gone through a scale and that's and that weight is set so we don't have a bunch of time that there's some calf that got pulled from its mother and then once we get everything sorted then we'll go weigh them we're like nope get them off the mother

Logan Pribbeno: They have left their mother's side. They have gone through a scale and that's and that weight is set. So we don't have a bunch of time that there's some calf that got pulled from its mother and then w once we get everything sorted, then we'll go weigh ⁓ We're like, nope, get them off the mother, put them on the scale. Then if they want to go ball after that, they can go ball after that. That's really smart ⁓ weight management. Yeah. And and like we were saying, when you're sorting hundreds of calves, that's a big number that can just fall on the ground while you're

Ea'Mon O'Toole: put them on the scale then if they want to go ball after that they can go ball after that. That's really smart ⁓ weight management. Yeah and and like we were saying when you're sorting hundreds of calves, that's a big number that can just fall on the ground while you're s you know doing your sorting or your crowd setup's not big enough or good enough or whatever. And then the other piece is is the stockmanship and letting those cattle come through. When we're working cattle, I don't want to hear anyone. Yeah. And I want all my guys and we've talked

Logan Pribbeno: you know, doing your sorting or your corral setup's not big enough or good enough or whatever. And then the other pieces is the stockmanship and letting those cattle come through. When we're working cattle, I don't want to hear anyone. Yeah. And I want all my guys, and we've talked about our employee stuff a lot. I want all the guys that normally work in their position. Yeah. Whether it's at the sorting gate or in the back bringing up cattle. I want the same guy in the same spot. Mm-hmm. And

Ea'Mon O'Toole: about our employee stuff a lot. I want all the guys that normally work in their position, whether it's at the sorting gate or in the back bringing up cattle. I want the same guy in the same spot. And a lot of guys think being the guy up at the sorting gate's the cool job and that's where they want to get to.

Logan Pribbeno: A lot of guys think being the guy up at the sorting gate's the cool job and that's where they want to get to. If you're good at your job in the back, that's as important as the guy at the sorting gate. And I don't want to hear anybody talk. Yeah. Everybody knows what they're doing. Everybody knows what way everything goes. And we talk about it before we start. Yeah. Just in case I've got some stupid idea and I wanna take a calf and put it somewhere else because of the X reason. But we ⁓ I don't like any noise. I like the cattle to come through, we work ⁓ and we, you know, just do our sort and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: If you're good at your job in the back, that's as important as the guy at the sorting gate. And I don't want to hear anybody talk. Yeah. Everybody knows what they're doing. Everybody knows what way everything goes. And we talk about it before we start. Just in case I've got some stupid idea and I want to take a calf and put it somewhere else because of the X reason. But we ⁓ I don't like any noise. I like the cattle to come through, we work ⁓ and we, you know, just do our sort and and everything stays so much calmer. Yeah. But you have to have the right corral set up to do that, that those cattle can

Logan Pribbeno: And everything stays so much calmer. Yeah. But you have to have the right corral set up to do that, that those cattle can perform as good as you want them to perform in your setup. Yeah. So good good facilities and good people. and those two things cannot be understated, especially when it comes to this management of the shrink and the fill. And, you know, just getting getting that calf on the truck with the the least amount of stress possible. Mm-hmm. Yeah. If they can walk down and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: perform as good as you want them to perform in your setup. Yeah, so good good facilities and good people. and those two things cannot be understated, especially when it comes to this management of the shrink and the fill and you know, just getting getting that calf on the truck with the the least amount of stress possible. Mm-hmm. Yeah, if they can walk down and they get away from their mother and there's not even a ball by the time they walk on the truck, you've done your job, right? Yeah, I think that's a very good very good way to say it. Yep. Yeah, well let's ⁓ talk a little bit about how we both ended up back at our places and you have a you have a really cool story and mine is

Logan Pribbeno: They get away from their mother and there's not even a ball by the time they walk on the truck. You've done your job, right? Yeah. I think that's a very good, very good way to say it. Yep. Yeah. Well let's ⁓ talk a little bit about how we both ended up back at our places and you have a you have a really cool story and mine is ⁓ mine is not as cool, but it was definitely a roundabout way. Yeah. ⁓ so shout out to Jeff Kemp for reaching out for this. He's got ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Mine is not as cool, but it was definitely a roundabout way. Yeah. ⁓ so shout out to Jeff Kemp for reaching out for this. He's got a kid or some kids that he is thinking about getting back on the operation wanted to give our our perspective. I'll just hit on mine first. ⁓ I knew that I wanted to come back to the ranch when I was eighteen. I've got one younger brother ⁓ who was not so sure. ⁓ but it didn't really matter at that time. My dad said no decisions were gonna be made until ⁓ ten years. We were off the ranch ⁓ with a college education and a and a short career outside of that. So I I went to school at University of ⁓ California Santa Barbara which

Logan Pribbeno: a kid or some kids that he is thinking about getting back on the operation wanted to g give ⁓ our perspective. I'll just hit on mine first. I knew that I wanted to come back to the ranch when I was eighteen. I've got one younger brother ⁓ who was not so sure. ⁓ but it didn't really matter at that time. My dad said no decisions were gonna be made until ⁓ ten years. We were off the ranch ⁓ with a college education and a and a short career outside of that. So I I went to school at University of ⁓ California, Santa Barbara. which is a party school. ⁓ I had a great time, studied economics when I wasn't drinking beer, and met my wife there. And then we moved to San Francisco following college. And I had a short career in the Silicon Valley, five years, which is nothing in in retrospect. ⁓ but g got some perspective and and again, ⁓ where did my dad get this idea? Well, Alan Nation's idea was to have have the sons leave for 10 years because it allows the them to get perspective

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Which is party school. ⁓ had a great time, studied economics when I wasn't drinking beer, and met my wife there, and then we moved to San Francisco following college, and I had a short career in the Silicon Valley, five years, which is nothing in in retrospect. ⁓ but got some perspective and and again where did my dad get this idea? Well, Alan Nation's idea was to have have the sons leave for ten years because it allows the them to get perspective of the world.

Logan Pribbeno: of the world and and where their fathers are. ⁓ a lot of the operators don't really get what where their fathers are and it takes them a while to kind of kind of access that. So that's that's kind of been been my experience. And it was a requirement for my parents and there was no option to come back before that. I do remember my dad ⁓ told me, after you graduate you're on your own. If you need to apply for welfare, I will help you with the paperwork.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: and and where their fathers are. ⁓ a lot of the operators don't really get what where their fathers are. It takes them a while to kind of kind of access that. So that's that's kind of been been my experience and it was a requirement for my parents and there was no option to come back before that. I do remember my dad told me, ⁓ after you graduate you're on your own. If you need to apply for welfare, I will help you with the paperwork.

Logan Pribbeno: That's great advice. That's great advice. Can't argue with Jeff Ribineau hits another home run. He was not messing around. No. Gosh. Well, ⁓ you know, I and the frontal cortex is fully developed by that ten years. Exactly. We were talking about that at lunch. Yeah. At breakfast this morning. Yeah. We're like, well, that's an old enough age 'cause then you know you kind of know enough to know. Yeah. And ⁓ I'll give you a kind of my quick. ⁓ went to University of Wyoming, also, ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: That's great advice. That's great advice. Can't argue with Jeff Rubino hits another home run. He live not messing around. No. Gosh. Well, you know, I and the frontal cortex is fully developed by that ten years. Exactly. We were talking about that alone. Yeah, at breakfast this morning. Yeah, we're like, well, that's an old enough age 'cause then you know you kinda know enough to know. Yeah. And ⁓ I'll give you a kind of my quick ⁓ went to University of Wyoming. Also ⁓ not a not a strict school in terms of beer drinking.

Logan Pribbeno: Not a not a strict school in terms of beer drinking. Sure. And ⁓ I was there for the better part of a decade, five and a half years, and and ⁓ met my beautiful wife there. And we were able to I think that's a huge advantage of going off to college is you find other people that are driven. Yeah. And ⁓ my wife is definitely driven. She got two d two very difficult degrees to get and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And ⁓ I was there for the better part of a decade, five and a half years, and and ⁓ met my beautiful wife there and we were able to I think that's a huge advantage of going off to college is you find other people that are driven. Yeah. And ⁓ my wife is definitely driven. She got two d two very difficult degrees to get and I also double majored in geography and environment and natural resources. Yep. And we

Logan Pribbeno: I also double majored in geography and environment and natural resources. Yep. And we decided that well, part way through college, I just started dating my wife. I decided that, you know, I wasn't loving school and I took a semester off. I came home and my parents said, Well, that's great if you want to come home. ⁓ here's a sheep camp. Yeah. And you can live in a sheep camp and ⁓ cav out some cows for us out here. And I was like, Okay. So that's what I did and I lived in a camp by myself and

Ea'Mon O'Toole: decided that ⁓ well part way through college I just started dating my wife. I decided that, you know, I wasn't loving school and I took a semester off. I came home and my parents said, Well that's great if you want to come home. ⁓ here's a sheep camp. Yeah. And you can live in a sheep camp and ⁓ cab out some cows for us out here. And I was like, Okay. So that's what I did and I lived in a camp by myself and cooked and clean you know, did all my own thing and fed cows and checked calves and shot some coyotes along the way. Yeah. then

Logan Pribbeno: cooked and clean you know, did all my own thing and fed cows and checked calves and shot some coyotes along the way. Yeah. And then by the time fall semester came back around, I was like, you know, that college deal wasn't such a bad kick. So I went back to college and ⁓ finished got two degrees and and looking back, I probably wasn't a college kid. And I I have ⁓ two boys myself and one of them I think is very much gonna be a college kid. Yeah. He excels in

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And by the time fall semester came back around, I was like, you know, that college deal wasn't such a bad gig. So I went back to college and ⁓ finished got two degrees and and looking back, I probably wasn't a college kid. And I I have ⁓ two boys myself and one of them I think is very much gonna be a college kid. Yeah he excels in in that scenario, and my other son is not so much, and I think he's more of like

Logan Pribbeno: in that scenario. And my other son is ⁓ not so much. And I think he's more of like I'm I think he's a trade school guy. Yeah. Welder, plumber, something like that. And I told him, I said, man, I think you getting into plumbing, those guys are going to be doing really well in your generation. And he said, I don't want to deal with people's excrement. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, you don't have to. Yeah. Like you can go and they're building data centers and they need licensed plumbers. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: ⁓ I think he's a trade school guy. Yeah. Welder, plumber, something like that. And I told him, I said, Man, I think you getting into plumbing, those guys are gonna be doing really well in your generation. And he said, I don't want to deal with people's excrement. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, you don't have to. Like you can go and they're building data centers and they need licensed plumbers. Yeah. They need good people that want to work hard, show up every day. You do that in your life, and you will be extremely successful. Yeah. The people that

Logan Pribbeno: They need good people that want to work hard, show up every day. You do that in your life and you will be extremely successful. Yeah. The people that you have to compete against in your generation are not going to show up to work. If you can show up to work and you're smart and you're no more than everybody else, you will be you'll be differentiated. You'll be differentiated big time. So, you know, that's kind of the directions I'm pushing my kids or hoping they'll they'll go. But I think one of the other things that he was asking about is how are we

Ea'Mon O'Toole: That you have to compete against in your generation are not going to show up to work. If you can show up to work and you're smart and you're no more than everybody else, you will be you'll be differentiated. You will be differentiated big time. So, you know, that's kind of the directions I'm pushing my kids or hoping they'll they'll go. But I think one of the other things that he was asking about is how are we choosing what these kids are gonna do? And so or how do you choose what kid comes back or do they choose

Logan Pribbeno: Choosing what these kids are gonna do. And so, or how do you choose what kid comes back or do they choose and all of those things? And what are your what are your thoughts? Your girls are quite a bit younger than my kids. So we started our stuff as soon as my parents came home. I mean, we were we started, or not my parents, as soon as we came home to our parents on the ranch, we started doing that work with the lawyer. We were sitting in there and figuring out, you know.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: and all those things. And what are your what are your thoughts? Your girls are quite a bit younger than my kids. So we started our stuff as soon as my parents came home. I mean we were we started or not my parents as soon as we came home to our parents on the ranch, we started doing that work with the lawyer. We were sitting in there and figuring out you know one how to get the ranch transferred to my sister and I. Yeah. And then also my sister and I were then hanging in there saying what are we going to do with our six kids

Logan Pribbeno: One, how to get the ranch transferred to my sister and I. Yeah. And then also my sister and I were been hanging in there saying, What are we gonna do with our s six kids between the two of us? Yeah. And so tell me where you're at and then I'll kind of throw in my perspective of what we've done at Ladder Ranch. Sure. So going back to Cam's question, so my parents obviously had two sons and Alan Nation's advice with that ten year period was in particular for sons. Alan Nation just had daughters.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: kids between the two of us. Yeah. And so tell me where you're at and then I'll kind of throw in my perspective of what we've done at Ladder Ranch. Sure. So going back to Cam's question, so my parents obviously had two sons and Alan Nation's advice with that ten year period was in particular for sons. Alan Nation just had daughters, ⁓ but he picked that up somewhere, I'm not sure ⁓ where. But I don't know. So I do have a few years to figure it out. My my girls are

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ but he picked that up somewhere. I'm not sure ⁓ where. But I don't know. So I do have a few years to figure it out. My my girls are ⁓ eleven and eight, about to be nine. ⁓ so I've got a few more years than you do to figure it out. I don't know if I'm going to require a full ten years outside of Nebraska and agriculture. I I really don't know. And I need I need to get to know them a little bit better first to be able to really know

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And eight, about to be nine. so I've got a few more years than you do to figure it out. I don't know if I'm going to require a full ten years outside of Nebraska and agriculture. I I really don't know. And I need I need to get to know them a little bit better first to be able to really know what kind of advice that is. I will say that the ten year advice

Logan Pribbeno: what kind of advice that is. I will say that the 10 year advice from a father to a son is if I was going to be the best ranch manager on the planet, I wouldn't have done what I did. ⁓ you know, leaving for 10 years and not being focused on farm and ranch management sets you back a little bit in regards to your farm and ranch management. It set you a little bit ahead in your life experiences. ⁓ you know, so like Cooper Hibbard would be someone who spent

Ea'Mon O'Toole: From a father to a son is if I was gonna be the best ranch manager on the planet, I wouldn't have done what I did. ⁓ you know, leaving for ten years and not being focused on farm and ranch management sets you back a little bit in regards to your farm and ranch management. It sets you a little bit ahead in your life experiences. ⁓ you know, so like Cooper Hibbard would be someone who spent a good chunk away. Cooper Hibbert actually went to the school ⁓ less than a hundred miles north of me in Santa Barbara, ⁓ Cal Poly.

Logan Pribbeno: A good chunk away. Cooper Hibbert actually went to the school ⁓ less than a hundred miles north of me in Santa Barbara, ⁓ Cal Poly, and also had a wonderful time, ⁓ very similar school on the beach. But then he focused and went and worked on a bunch of ranches ⁓ instead of going to San Francisco and the Silicon Valley. And yeah, and I'm it's been a while since Cooper and I talked, but he I think he hit at least three different continents where he was ranching. So I think there's a number of different ways to do this. I don't think there's a one size fits all approach.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: and also had a wonderful time. ⁓ very similar school on the beach. But then he focused and went and worked on a bunch of ranches, ⁓ instead of going to San Francisco and the Silicon Valley and ⁓ and I'm it's been a while since Cooper and I talked, but he I think he hit at least three different continents where he was ranching. So I think there's a number of different ways to do this. I don't think there's a one size fish all approach. What ⁓ what does for your kids in particular, what does their path back to the ranch look like if there is

Logan Pribbeno: What ⁓ what does for your kids in particular, what does their path back to the ranch look like if there is one? You know, ⁓ I'll say first, I think that what Cooper did is and I know Cooper and he is driven, he is smart, and he really knows his stuff. And if I would have gone to do something like what Cooper did, I would not have done a good job. I

Ea'Mon O'Toole: one. You know, ⁓ I'll say first, I think that what Cooper did is and I know Cooper and he is driven, he is smart, and he really knows his stuff. And if I would have gone to do something like what Cooper did, I would not have done a good job. I I needed a little longer on the old ⁓ grill to get finished. Yeah. And so I don't think that staying on or, you know, going directly into what you want to be the best ranch manager on the planet.

Logan Pribbeno: I needed a little longer on the old ⁓ grill to get finished. And so I don't think that staying on or you know, going directly into what you want to be the best ranch manager on the planet. I think that getting you got you've gotten there and Cooper's gotten there on different paths and ⁓ you both know a lot of the same things. You guys are both grass nerds, and I'm behind on that because I'm

Ea'Mon O'Toole: I think that getting you got you've gotten there and Cooper's gotten there on different paths and ⁓ you both know a lot of the same things. You guys are both grass nerds and I'm behind on that because I'm I would say at forty I'm getting into that stuff. And you and I creeped around yesterday and I was asking a bunch of questions about grass and and I'm glad I have a guy like you and friend like Cooper to call and say, Hey, what are you thinking about this? What's this kind of grass do? And and so that's a great opportunity for me but

Logan Pribbeno: I would say at forty I'm getting into that stuff. And you and I creeped around yesterday and I was asking a bunch of questions about grass and and I'm glad I have a guy like you and friend like Cooper to call and say, Hey, what are you thinking about this? What's this kind of grass do? And and so that's a great opportunity for me. But I was I was slow to come to that stuff. And I I focused more on the cowboy stuff first. And I wouldn't say buckaroo by any means, but

Ea'Mon O'Toole: I was I was slow to come to that stuff and I I focused more on the cowboy stuff first. And I wouldn't say buckaroo by any means but you know, I love to work cattle, I love to watch cattle work around when you're on horseback especially and you and I talked about this on the when we were out working cattle at your place on four wheelers you can't see the other guys. And it's hard to tell what the cattle are doing 'cause you're below ⁓ Yeah. And on horseback, you're up above ⁓ You can see what when you know what the front's gonna do, you know what the back's gonna do. Yeah. And

Logan Pribbeno: You know, I love to work cattle. I love to watch cattle work around when you're on horseback, especially. And you and I talked about this on the when we were out working cattle at your place. On four wheelers, you can't see the other guys. And it's hard to tell what the cattle are doing because you're below them. Yeah. And on horseback, you're up above them. You can see what when you know what the front's gonna do, you know what the back's gonna do. Yeah. And to me, like that's just it's poetry in motion. Yeah. W working cattle, especially with a good crew that know know how to be and where to be at the right times. And

Ea'Mon O'Toole: To me like that's just it's poetry in motion. Yeah. W working cattle, especially with a good crew that know know how to be and where to be at the right times. And and so I would say I enjoy the the livestock side more and I'm slow coming to the game on the grass side. Yeah. So very very different perspectives and and I think that's one thing that I would try and teach my kids is find what you love and then the rest will come. Yeah, yeah, and and ⁓ you know, I don't I I think I'm speaking for community.

Logan Pribbeno: And so I would say I enjoy the the livestock side more and I'm slow coming to the game on the grass side. Yeah. So very very different perspectives and and I think that's one thing that I would try and teach my kids is find what you love and then the rest will come. Yeah, yeah. And and I you know, I don't I'm I think I'm speaking for Cooper here. I never took a class about grass. Me either at all. But I just it's my favorite part of ranching.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: here I never took a class about grass at all. But I just it's my favorite part of ranching and so I've I've you know, I'm not as good as anyone but for someone who never took a single class on grass management, grass I D or all of that I'm

Logan Pribbeno: And so I've I've you know, I'm not as good as anyone, but for someone who never took a single class on grass management or grass ID or all of that, I'm I can hold my own. Yeah. And I know what cows eat, I know what sheep eat. I don't know what it's called. Yeah. But I can tell you what's good, what's bad, what's toxic, what's not. Yeah. I can like like my mom said, every animal she ⁓ learned something from it was a dead one. And so ⁓ toxicity will really teach you some things. Yeah. You better figure it out fast. So

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Yeah. And I know what cows eat, I know what sheep eat. Mm-hmm. I don't know what it's called. Yeah. But I can tell you what's good, what's bad, what's toxic, what's not. Yeah. I can like like my mom said, every animal she ⁓ learned something from it was a dead one. And so ⁓ toxicity will really teach you some things. You better figure it out fast. So ⁓ going back to the kids, so my sister and I have put a lot of thought and time into meeting with lawyers and figuring that out. So in in meeting with our lawyers and figuring out how to s get these kids into a position to be ⁓ successful, I think that getting them getting them in the conversation early. So Ren is eleven, he's the youngest of the six. McCoy is or sorry,

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ going back to the kids, so my sister and I have put a lot of thought and time into meeting with lawyers and figuring that out. So, in in meeting with our lawyers and figuring out how to s get these kids into a position to be ⁓ successful, I think that getting ⁓ getting them in the conversation early. So Ren is eleven. He's the youngest of the six. McCoy is Or sorry, Ren is thirteen. ⁓ McCoy is fifteen, and Ren's the youngest, and then the oldest one is I think twenty two now. Okay. And so yeah, she just newly twenty two. So we go from thirteen to twenty two years old, between the oldest and the youngest. And the oldest is in law school. She is a whiz, went through college quickly, ⁓ went had a bunch of it done when she graduated high school. I think she was valedictorian. You know, one of those is just yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Ren is thirteen, McCoy is fifteen, and Ren's the youngest, and then the oldest one is I think twenty-two now. Okay. And so yeah, she's newly twenty-two. So we go from thirteen to twenty-two years old, between the oldest and the youngest. And the oldest is in law school. She is a whiz, went through college quickly, ⁓ went had a bunch of it done when she graduated high school. I think she was valedictorian. You know, one of those that's just yeah, she's she's

Logan Pribbeno: She's she excels at the school situation. And and then all the kids, there's not a there's not a tough one in the bunch. I mean, they're all really good ones. And I think any one of them could come back here and be successful if they wanted to be or not. They're all smart enough to be successful ranchers. Yeah. But is that their calling? Is that their thing? No. Yeah. ⁓ the oldest one we don't know, ⁓ and then all the way down to the bottom, Ren's the only one that I'm like, yep, I think that kid's gonna be a rancher. It's a good fit for Ren. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: She excels at the school situation. And and then all the kids, there's not a there's not a tough one in the bunch. I mean, they're all really good ones. And I think any one of them could come back here and be successful if they wanted to be or not. They're all smart enough to be successful ranchers. Yeah. But is that their calling? Is that their thing? No. Yeah. ⁓ the oldest one we don't know, ⁓ and then all the way down to the bottom, Ren's the only one that I'm like, yep, I think that kid's gonna be a rancher. It's a good fit for Ren. Yeah. And

Logan Pribbeno: And ⁓ but figuring out how to motivate him and get him and and this morning at breakfast we talked about since you you did a big trip before you came home. Yeah. And that was I'm I'm super jealous of it because my wife and I wanted to do a one year travel around the world, just work from place to place and have enough money to get to the next place until we finally decided that we were too broken and needed to come home and get real jobs was the goal. Yeah. And then we got out of college.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: But figuring out how to motivate him and get him. And this morning at breakfast we talked about since you you did a big trip before you came home. And that was I'm I'm super jealous of it because my wife and I wanted to do a one-year travel around the world. just work from place to place and have enough money to get to the next place until we finally decided that we were too broke and needed to come home and get real jobs was the goal. Yeah. And then we got out of college, ⁓ we had student loans and had to had to get paying on those. So going and leaving for a year to go be broke for a year was not in the in the cards. And I that's my worry in sending a kid directly to college is that one they get debt or two they

Logan Pribbeno: ⁓ we had student loans and had to had to get paying on those. So going and leaving for a year to go be broke for a year was not in the in the cards. And I that's my worry in sending a kid directly to college is that one, they get debt or two, they get a job, three, they, you know, get married and have kids, whatever they do. None of those are bad things in the

Ea'Mon O'Toole: get a job, three they you know, get married and have kids, whatever they do, none of those are bad things. in the in the picture of lifelong learning. Yeah. But I think to be able to go to Australia, Ren is Ren really wants to go to Australia and do some outback stuff and and he's punchy and he would excel in that scenario. And Megan and I are like, do we send him to college and have him or trade school, whatever, and have him get into these scenarios of debt, wife, kids, work

Logan Pribbeno: in the picture of lifelong learning. Yeah. But I think to be able to go to Australia, Ren is Ren really wants to go to Australia and do some outback stuff and and he's punchy and he would excel in that scenario. And Megan and I are like, do we send him to college and have him or trade school, whatever, and have him get into these scenarios of debt, wife, kids, work. Because if he does that, then the likelihood that he's gonna get that time to go and do that one year sabbatical is gonna be tough. Yeah. His life takes over. Yeah, it does. ⁓ I will say the downside to sending your kid away for 10 years is I kind of figured out high agency a little bit. It it worked, worked well. I did well in school. ⁓ I did well after school. We survived the ⁓ eight crisis. Both my wife and I did. I talk about that's our first drought.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Because if he does that then h the likelihood that he's gonna get that time to go and do that one year sabbatical is gonna be tough. Yeah. 'Cause life takes over. Yeah, it does. ⁓ I will say the downside to sending your kid away for ten years is I kinda figure it out high agency a little bit. It it worked worked well. I did well in school. ⁓ did well after school. We survived the ⁓ eight crisis, both my wife and I did. I talk about that's our first drought. We ended up taking a year on the honeymoon. We lived on sixty dollars ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: We ended up taking a year on the honeymoon. We lived on sixty dollars ⁓ a day as we drove to Tierra del Fuego. And ⁓ you know, if my dad just would have sent me to UNL and took me home, he kinda would would have eliminated that little wonder lust that I developed in California. So it ⁓ it ⁓ you know, I'm not gonna say it backfired, but it definitely created a version of Lok and Pripono that's not afraid to do ⁓ some bolder things than than average. So ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: a day as we drove to Tierra do Fuego and ⁓ you know, if my dad just would have sent me the U and L and took me home, he kinda would would have eliminated that little wonder lust that I developed in California. So it ⁓ it ⁓ you know, I'm not gonna say it backfired, but it definitely created a version of Logan Pripano that's not afraid to do ⁓ some bolder things than than average. So h how that applies to Ren,

Logan Pribbeno: How that applies to Wren, ⁓ you know, certainly let him live that out. I have some friends that that left farming not due to bankruptcy but trying to scratch an itch ⁓ that they didn't ever get scratched. ⁓ and I don't have to do that and and that does help. But sure for sure, you know, allowing your kids a little bit of freedom and a little bit of goof off time and ⁓ a lot of grace, I think is a great thing. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: you know, certainly let him live that out. I have some friends that that left farming not due to bankruptcy but trying to scratch an itch, ⁓ that they didn't ever get scratched. ⁓ and I don't have to do that and and that does help. But sure for sure, you know, allowing your kids a little bit of freedom and a little bit of goof off time and I think is a great thing. Yeah, the my time in college was absolutely necessary to you know work out that screw off time and met a lot of friends, had a lot of contacts, things have been great for me, and I'm college was very good for me even though I was probably more of a trade school type of kid. And ⁓ but like I said, met met my wife and everything has worked out very well and I have no complaints, but there's definitely some places along the way that I

Logan Pribbeno: My time in college was absolutely necessary to, you know, work out that screw off time and met a lot of friends, had a lot of contacts. Things have been great for me and I'm college was very good for me, even though I was probably more of a trade school type of kid. Yeah. And but like I said, met met my wife and everything has worked out very well and I have no complaints. But there's definitely some places along the way that I wish I could have, you know, taken a little more time.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: I wish I could have, you know, taken a little more time. Yeah. Yeah, and it's hard to do. It's very hard to do. ⁓ you know, if you're a middle aged white male that's managing a multi generational farmer ant, you probably think that if you die the place is just gonna implode in a week. And

Logan Pribbeno: Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard to do. It's very hard to do. ⁓ you know, if you're a middle aged white male that's managing a multi generational farm or ranch, you probably think that if you die the place is just gonna implode in a week. And I'll tell you, ⁓ this is Dr. David Cole. He says JFK was replaced in fifteen minutes. He was the leader of the free world. It took fifteen minutes to get his replacement signed in. You know, if you think that the life is not gonna continue after you're gone, I have bad news for you. Yep.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: tell ya, ⁓ this is Dr. David Cole. He's a J F K was replaced in fifteen minutes. He was the leader of the free world. It took fifteen minutes to get his replacement signed in. You know, if you think that the life is not gonna continue after you're gone, I have bad news for you. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And and that's good advice for anybody in any job. Yeah. If you think your job doesn't exist without you, just don't show up for a week. Yeah. They'll figure it out. They'll figure it out. And that's good advice for

Logan Pribbeno: Yeah, that's right. And and that's good advice for anybody in any job. Yeah. If you think your job doesn't exist without you, just don't show up for a week. Yeah. They'll figure it out. They'll figure it out. And that's good advice for ⁓ you know, we were talking about our target demographic and and it's how it's maybe the the younger ranch managers and you know, maybe in their thirties and still ha kind of have a bit of that where ⁓ you know, this, you know, I am this thing and ⁓ I'll tell you the older you get

Ea'Mon O'Toole: We were talking about our target demographic and and it's how it's maybe the the younger ranch managers and you know, maybe in their thirties and still ha kinda have a bit of that where ⁓ you know, this you know, I am this thing and ⁓ I'll tell you the older you get, the more you realize that ⁓ that

Logan Pribbeno: the more you realize that ⁓ that that is not necessarily true. If you can separate your ego from your business or your slash farm and ranch, it will pay you dividends. Yeah, and I'd like to get in a little bit just I don't know why it's such a secret in agriculture and we don't talk about family dynamics or any of that stuff. And I'm very fortunate my sister and I work very well together. ⁓ she's more on the book side and I'm more on the day-to-day management side.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: That is not necessarily true. If you can separate your ego from your business or slash farm and ranch, it will pay you dividends. Yeah, and I'd like to get in a little bit just I don't know why it's such a secret in agriculture. And we don't talk about family dynamics or any of that stuff. And I'm very fortunate. My sister and I work very well together. ⁓ she's more on the book side and I'm more on the day-to-day management side. And it's worked very well for us. You guys have a really good partnership, ⁓ sibling partnership. Yep, and she's seven years older than me. I mean, we're we're obviously siblings, but we're we didn't grow up together in that way. She was so much older. She was out of school before I was in June she was I was just starting junior high and she

Logan Pribbeno: And it's worked very well for us. You guys have a really good partnership, ⁓ sibling partnership. Yep. And she's seven years older than me. I mean, we're we're obviously siblings, but we're we didn't grow up together in that way. She was so much older. She was out of school before I was in June she was I was just starting junior high and she was gone. Yeah. And went off to college. So we ⁓ didn't spend as much time growing up together and ⁓ but our parents were very good about keeping us all

Ea'Mon O'Toole: She was gone. Yeah. And went off to college. So we ⁓ didn't spend as much time growing up together and ⁓ but our parents were very good about keeping us all

Logan Pribbeno: as friends and family, my dad was a huge family guy. Yeah. Like w everybody come over, we'd have dinner all the time together. Just a family guy. Grew up in a Catholic household, you know, liked everybody being around. Sure. So I think that was really important in our growing up. And and we're not giving that to our kids the way that he was so good about giving it to us. And I think we need to be better about that and getting back to having, you know, at least weekly family dinners. And we would do it.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: as friends and family, my dad was a huge family guy. Like w everybody come over, we'd have dinner all the time together. Just a family guy. Grew up in a Catholic household. You know, liked everybody being around. And so I think that was really important in our growing up and and we're not giving that to our kids the way that he was so good about giving it to us. And I think we need to be better about that and getting back to having, you know, at least weekly family dinners. And we would do it two or three times a week when my dad was around. He's like, come up, watch the game.

Logan Pribbeno: Two or three times a week when my dad was around. He was like, Come up, watch the game. And then it turned into a big you know, ⁓ I made spaghetti and a bunch of that stuff too. But when we met with the lawyers, the things we talked about were how old do we these kids need to be? 'Cause they need to make a decision. We're my sister and I, we love ranching and and it's good. But we also have hopes of, you know, getting out of the cold a little bit more in the wintertime. Sure. And

Ea'Mon O'Toole: And then it turned into a big you know, ⁓ mate spaghetti and a bunch of that stuff too. But When we met with the lawyers, the things we talked about were how old do we these kids need to be 'cause they need to make a decision. We're my sister and I we love ranching and and it's good, but we also have hopes of, you know, getting out of the cold a little bit more in the wintertime and it'd be great to have kids back here and we don't wanna be those seventy year old people that haven't passed on the ranch and the kids haven't seen the books. Yeah. We wanna be our parents had us in the books from the minute we got home to the ranch. They they were never afraid to say, Hey, you know

Logan Pribbeno: It'd be great to have kids back here. And we don't want to be those seven year old people that haven't passed on the ranch and the kids haven't seen the books. Yeah. We wanna be ⁓ our parents had us in the books from the minute we got home to the ranch. They they were never afraid to say, Hey, you know, this is what this costs and this is if you make this decision, this is what it'll cost, good or bad. Yeah. And here's what we pay for, you know, here's here's how much we spend on fuel every month, all of those things. So I think that's very important too, is to get ⁓ involved. Like

Ea'Mon O'Toole: this is what this costs and this is if you make this decision this is what it'll cost good or bad yeah and here's what we pay for you know here's here's how much we spend on fuel every month all of those things so I think that's very important too is to get them involved like then they at least have some perspective of do I want to run this monster or you know however big your place is it's a monster in your eyes because that's your world. Yeah and whether it's you're running 10 goats and you're doing some intensive grazing

Logan Pribbeno: Then they at least have some perspective of do I want to run this monster or you know, however big your place is, it's a monster in your eyes because that's your world. Yeah. And whether it's you're running 10 goats and you're doing some intensive grazing thing, or you're just trying to keep them in, or you're running a two thousand, five thousand cow operation and and you're on a multi generational place, it just is everybody's operation is their own monster. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: thing or you're just trying to keep ⁓ in or you're running a two thousand, five thousand cow operation and and you're on a multi generational place. It just is everybody's operation is their own monster. Yeah. And I don't think it matters what size it is. I always say bigger ranch, bigger bills. That's the only thing guaranteed to you by by growth. Yeah. Yeah. I I was telling Logan what my trucking bill coming home from his house was this morning. It it hurts. And it hurts a little bit.

Logan Pribbeno: And I don't think it matters what size it is. No, I I always say bigger ranch, bigger bills. That's the only thing guaranteed to you by by growth. Yeah. Yeah. I I was telling Logan what my trucking bill coming home from his house was this morning. It it hurts. It hurts a little bit. And luckily we did it right in this in the middle of this ⁓ Iran deal, so we got the really topped out on the prices too. Thank you again to this administration. so let's

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Luckily we did it right in this in the middle of this ⁓ Iran deal, so we got the really topped out on the prices too. Thank you again to this administration. so let's visit a little bit. So we talked about 25, 26 years old. The kids need to have made their decision. Are you gonna go be a lawyer? Are you gonna go be a plumber? Whatever your thing is. And if you get out of college and you're 22 years old and you want to go work for a few years, great. Yeah, but you need by the

Logan Pribbeno: Visit a little bit. So we talked about twenty five, twenty-six years old. Yep. The kids need to have made their decision. Yeah. Are you gonna go be a lawyer? Are you gonna go be a plumber? Whatever your thing is. And if you get out of college and you're twenty two years old and you wanna go work for a few years, great. Yeah. But you need by the time you're twenty five or twenty-six, you need to have said, Okay, I'm coming home or I'm not. Yep. And hopefully that works for my sister and I. None of them are there yet. And we've got a long time till the youngest. So every

Ea'Mon O'Toole: The time you're 25 or 26, you need to have said, okay, I'm coming home or I'm not. Yep. And hopefully that works for my sister and I. None of them are there yet. And we've got a long time till the youngest, so every a lot of people can pass on by and say, you know, all the kids can just be like, nope, not my thing, not my thing. But when it gets to Ren he's the only one left, we might be like, Boy, maybe we need to reevaluate this thing because we need somebody to come back here. I don't think it'll be a problem. Yeah. I I do appreciate how you have that deadline established, and that's also very similar with what my dad said.

Logan Pribbeno: Lot of people can pass on by and say, you know, all the kids can just be like, No, not my thing, not my thing. But when it gets to Ren and he's the only one left, we might be like, Boy, maybe we need to reevaluate this thing 'cause we need somebody to come back here. I don't think it'll be a problem. Yeah. I I do appreciate how you have that deadline established. And that's also very similar with what my dad set up. It was like, you know, we're not even gonna have this conversation until you've been gone for ten, which is ⁓ twenty twenty eight. Mm-hmm. So ⁓

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Mm-hmm. So, ⁓ just a year or two different than than you guys. And it you're you know who you are at that point and it's a good it is a good age to make some lifelong decisions. Yeah, and I'd like to put out that I did not plan on coming home to our ranch. When I left out of high school, I did come back. My dad was he was so awful in the way that he was all the time. Hey, can you come back over the weekend? Can you come back and help us? And you'd be out partying till two and then you'd go sleep for four or five hours and you'd be

Logan Pribbeno: just a year or two different than than you guys. And it you're you know who you are at that point and it's a good it is a good age to make some lifelong decisions. Yeah, and I'd like to put out that I did not plan on coming home to our ranch. When I left out of high school, I did come back. My dad was he was so awful in the way that he was all the time, Hey, can you come back over the weekend? Can you come back and help us? And you'd be out partying till two and then you'd go sleep for four or five hours and you'd be home to, you know

Ea'Mon O'Toole: home to you know, drive home in the dark to go help sort calves or whatever. So, ⁓ you know, it was great because ⁓

Logan Pribbeno: drive home in the dark to go help sort calves or whatever. So ⁓ you know, it was great because ⁓ the camaraderie with the guys was still there, all the employees they had. So we were all still friends and buddies and we worked together and I did come home some summers and help and I spent one summer working in Washington, DC as an intern for a US senator. I ⁓ worked at a ranch that we that runs my cows in the winter now. So there were a lot of good things that I did too besides just working on the ranch. But

Ea'Mon O'Toole: the camaraderie with the guys was still there, all the employees they had. So we were all still friends and buddies and we worked together and I did come home some summers and help and I spent one summer walking in Washington DC as an intern for a s US Senator. I ⁓ worked at a ranch that we that runs my cows in the winter now. So there were a lot of good things that I did too besides just working on the ranch. But I did not plan on coming home and being a rancher. I don't know what I was gonna do, but I I was like, I'm not doing that. Yeah. And then

Logan Pribbeno: I did not plan on coming home and being a rancher. I don't know what I was gonna do, but I sure I was like, I'm not doing that. Yeah. And then ⁓ the opportunity just kept being there and then and my dad was so good about, you know, keeping you in the family, keeping bringing you back. And ultimately this is where I ended up and I'm I don't regret any of it. I always say I've gotten to go, you know, all over the world because of Ladder Ranch. Yeah.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: The opportunity just kept being there and then and my dad was so good about, you know, keeping you in the family, keeping bringing you back. And ultimately this is where I ended up and I'm I don't regret any of it. I always say I've gotten to go, you know, all over the world because of Ladder Ranch. Yeah. Because it got me involved in the Beef Council, because it got me involved in US Meat Export Federation, it got me involved in American Farmland Trust. All these different things. I've gotten to see things that most people never see. I've been to almost every state, been to most

Logan Pribbeno: Because it got me involved in the Beef Council, because it got me involved in US Meat Export Federation, it got me involved in American Farmland Trust. All these different things. I've gotten to see things that most people never see. I've been to almost every state, been to ⁓ most continents. Yeah. And Ladder Ranch did that for me. Yeah. And I gone and done something totally different. ⁓ so what I always say is the places this place will take you. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And yeah, you also have to mention that we ⁓ came of age in the nineties, which was

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Yeah. And Ladder Ranch did that for me. And I gone and done something totally different. ⁓ so what I always say is the places this place will take you. I love that. Yeah. And yeah, you also have to mention that we ⁓ came of age in the nineties, which was one of the worst decades to ranch. Yeah. ⁓ it was the it was a century low for beef demand. Nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven was, and so man, we really didn't watch

Logan Pribbeno: one of the worst decades to ranch. Yeah. ⁓ it was the it was a century low for beef demand, nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven was. And so man, we really didn't watch excitement. Yeah. Yeah. It that that played a lot psychologically to our generation to where, you know, we didn't really not watch our families excel financially in the in the cattle industry.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Excitement. Yeah. Yeah. It that that played a lot psychologically to our generation to where, you know, we didn't really not watch our families excel financially in the in the cattle industry and you know we're in a different time today. Yeah, and we look at the numbers of people on home on their ranches and these huge farm bankruptcies, ranch bankruptcies right now. Even in these great prices there's still ranchers going broke. Yeah. And and some of them didn't get their estate planning done. Mm-hmm. Some of them are older folks that just say, you know what, we don't have any kids. Yeah. And we don't know nobody's here

Logan Pribbeno: And you know, we're in a different time today. Yeah. And we look at the numbers of people on home on their ranches and these huge farm bankruptcies, ranch bankruptcies right now. Even in these great prices, there's still ranchers going broke. Yeah. And and some of them didn't get their estate planning done. Some of are older folks that just say, you know what, we don't have any kids. Yeah. And we don't know nobody's here wanting to take it over.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Or wanting to take it over. Prices are good. Land's worth as much as ever been worth. Let's make a little money and and somebody else can run this place. So there's a lot of different reasons that that things are changing hands. And I think I've said before, this is going to be the largest land change in the United States since the Homestead Act. Yeah, and we're in the middle of it. It's not one of those things that's coming anymore. It's half executed. Yeah, and what's scary is it's

Logan Pribbeno: Prices are good, land's worth as much as ever been worth. Let's make a little money and and somebody else can run this place. So there's a lot of different reasons that that things are changing hands. And I think I've said it before, this is gonna be the largest land change in the United States since the Homestead Act. Yeah. And we're in the middle of it. It's not one of those things that's coming anymore. It's half executed. Yeah. And what's scary is it's I think a lot of the land being purchased is wealthy outside money that doesn't know anything about ranching.

Ea'Mon O'Toole: I think a lot of the land being purchased is wealthy outside money that's doesn't know anything about ranching. And we see these large places that I know a place that could run two to three thousand mama cows and they're running a hand they're running a few hundred head of cattle. Yeah. And it's because the the owner doesn't need to make money at it. Yeah. It's a place for him to go enjoy. Yeah. That's increasingly becoming

Logan Pribbeno: And we see these large places that I know a place that could run two to three thousand mama cows and they're running a hand they're running a few hundred head of cattle. Yeah. And it's because the the owner doesn't need to make money at it. Yeah. It's a place for him to go enjoy. Yeah. That's increasingly becoming ⁓ more prevalent in our industry and and how ranches are managed. ⁓ is that gonna have any effect on on

Ea'Mon O'Toole: prevalent in our industry and and how ranches are managed. Is that gonna have any effect on on the future of Ranchi?

Logan Pribbeno: The future of ranching? Well, we go back to what we were just talking about. We've got our c our kids are seeing in the excitement. Like we've said you and I've seen more good times in the last ten years than most ranchers have ever seen. Yeah. And you're an eighty year old guy and this is finally finally things are looking good. Yeah. And so our kids are probably doing more than we did. You know, getting to go do more things than you and I did as kids because there just wasn't those opportunities weren't

Ea'Mon O'Toole: Well, we we go back to what we were just talking about. We've got our k our kids are seeing in the excitement. Like we've said you and I've seen more good times in the last ten years than most ranchers have ever seen. Yeah. And you're an eighty year old guy and this is finally finally things are looking good. Yeah. And so our kids are probably doing more than we did. You know, getting to go do more things than you and I did as kids because there just wasn't those opportunities weren't really out there and we were joking