by Lee David Evans & Richard Johnson · English · History
The podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill. Hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party. Enjoy ad-free listening, bonus episodes and show your support for the podcast by joining the Since Attle
In this week’s 'Matters of Interest', Lee and Richard share their reflections from Oslo, where they’ve been researching how politicians get their policy advice in different parliamentary systems. After a visit to the Storting, Norway’s parliament, they reflect on the differences between Norwegian and British politics, from proportional representation and party discipline to the relationship between MPs and their constituents. What can we learn from the Norwegian experience, and what might be lost if Britain tried to follow its example? Then Richard tells the story of Samuel Gompers, the…
In this week's Since Attlee & Churchill, Richard and Lee explore Labour's long and often fraught relationship with the judiciary. From the Tolpuddle Martyrs and the Taff Vale case to Michael Foot's criticisms of judges in the 1970s, why did the Labour movement so often see the courts as an instrument of the establishment, standing in the way of working-class progress? Richard explains how Labour's historic commitment to parliamentary sovereignty was shaped by the struggle to overcome judicial rulings. Lee, meanwhile, wonders whether Labour's hostility to judges was simply a reflection of the…
In this week's Matters of Interest, Richard and Lee reflect on the Conservative Party Conference and consider what it says about the role of Kemi Badenoch, with Lee arguing she is — rarely for the Conservatives in recent years — a leader who is wholly secure in her position. But what will Badenoch's strategy for the Conservatives be? Next, Richard introduces the 'sewer socialists' of Milwaukee, the American socialists who built a hugely successful political movement by concentrating less on Marxist theory and more on improving the lives of working people. Find out more about our new 'Right…
When Tony Blair’s New Labour government came to power in 1997, it promised a referendum on changing the voting system for the House of Commons. It then appointed the political grandee Roy Jenkins to work out what an alternative might look like. The Jenkins Commission reported its proposals for a new electoral system in 1998, but the referendum was never held. With electoral reform once again high on the political agenda, in this episode Lee and Richard revisit the last time a Labour government seriously considered changing the way Britain elects its MPs. They look at the long history of the…
This week, Lee and Richard discuss Andy Burnham’s speech to the Labour Party Conference. Did it actually represent a meaningful change in Labour’s policies and politics? Or do Burnham's words simply amount to a nebulous set of promises that his government cannot and will not deliver — at least this side of an election? They then turn to a topic that has been at the heart of Labour politics since the party's foundation. As Richard explains, Labour has been on a journey away from being a party of trade unionists and working-class people towards electing MPs and party officials from an…
Labour General Secretary Morgan Phillips famously claimed that the Labour Party owed more to Methodism than to Marxism. But was he right? In this episode of Since Attlee & Churchill, Richard and Lee explore the Methodist tradition and its influence on the Labour movement - including the importance of Methodism in teaching working class people about political organisation and public speaking. Throughout the episode, Richard shares the stories of some of the remarkable Labour politicians whose lives were shaped - even transformed - by Methodism, before wondering whether the debate posed by…
This week, Lee and Richard discuss the changing nature of the US–UK relationship, from Churchill and Truman to Burnham and Trump. They ask: what exactly is the “special relationship” between Britain and America? And how does it play out in practice? And should it change? Next, Lee turns to the extraordinary snap election getting underway British Columbia. Why has the Premier called an election two years early, just as the opposition Conservatives are struggling to recover from a leadership crisis? And what does this election tell us about snap elections, constitutional conventions and the…
Betty Boothroyd was the first woman to become Speaker of the House of Commons - and from the Speaker's chair became one of the most popular and recognisable figures in modern British politics. But what made her so successful in the role? In this episode, Richard and Lee look at Boothroyd’s journey from a working-class childhood in Dewsbury, through failed attempts to enter Parliament and an unlikely spell in American politics, to the Speakership. The episode explores her love of Parliament and its traditions, her battles with Militant, her relationship with New Labour, and why she believed…
In this mid-week episode of Since Attlee & Churchill, Lee and Richard broadcast from Canada, where they've spent the week talking to politicos. Lee begins by considering what the Right in the UK, and throughout much of the West, could learn from the current travails of the Canadian Conservatives. Next, Richard considers why Andy Burnham is tackling the inability of Catholics to formally recommend the appointment of Anglican Bishops with the first Bill of his premiership. He asks why this technical change, which will only really affect the prime minister, is being prioritised. Enjoy ad-free…
This week Since Attlee & Churchill takes a funereal turn as Lee and Richard trace where each of Britain's nine deceased post-war prime ministers chose to be buried. Featuring Clement Attlee's memorial in Westminster Abbey, Winston Churchill's return to Bladon, Anthony Eden's dramatic dash home from Florida to die in Wiltshire, Harold Wilson's beloved Scilly Isles - and more. What do these final locations tell us about the individual prime ministers and the changing nature of who holds the highest political office in our land? In this episode, the following books are mentioned: 'The Rage of…
In this mid week episode of Since Attlee & Churchill, recorded in the United States, Lee and Richard tackle two live debates spanning the Atlantic. First, Richard makes the case against Britain's council tax system — a tax still based on 1991 property valuations — and considers whether Andy Burnham was right to rule out replacing it with the sort of property tax used in America. What would be the pros, cons and the pitfalls of embracing such a reform? Then Lee turns to a trope doing the rounds online: "America rich, Britain poor." With US midterm campaigns dominated by cost-of-living…
John Freeman was one of the brightest stars of the Labour Party’s post-war generation. Elected in the 1945 Labour landslide, he rapidly rose through Clement Attlee’s government and became a hero of the Labour left. Some even thought he could one day become Prime Minister. But after resigning from the government alongside Nye Bevan and Harold Wilson, he walked away from Parliament aged just 40. For the remainder of his life, Freeman never settled - he became a pioneering television interviewer, editor of the New Statesman, British High Commissioner to India, Ambassador to the United States,…
In this week’s Matters of Interest, Lee and Richard discuss Starmer’s decision to resign as an MP – and look at how his departure is part of a much bigger change in the relationship between former prime ministers and Parliament. Will any future PM do as Arthur Balfour and Edward Heath did and stay in the Commons long after their time in Number 10 is over? Then, Richard turns to the recent debate on the trade-offs between sovereignty and free trade between Canada and the United States. Richard argues that some of the same commentators who diagnosed a 'sovereignty syndrome' in Britain during…
In this episode of Since Attlee & Churchill, Lee and Richard are joined by Nigel Fletcher, author of 'Churchill's Queen: The Remarkable Friendship That Shaped Our Age', to explore the fascinating relationship between Winston Churchill and Elizabeth II. In his new book, Nigel explores how their relationship developed even before Elizabeth's accession in 1952, with Churchill playing an influential role in her early life. This episode also explores the personal relationship between the two as Prime Minister and Sovereign, their very different ways of understanding the decline of the British…
This week, Lee and Richard debate whether Andy Burnham should call an early general election – and what, if anything, could justify him doing so. Is the conventional wisdom that a Prime Minister is never as popular as they are in their first few months actually true? And what can Burnham learn from the experiences of Theresa May, Gordon Brown, John Major – and even Stanley Baldwin?! Next, Richard looks at the extraordinary GCSE results achieved by Michaela Community School and asks what its success reveals about the principles of a good education. He then reveals some correspondence…
In this episode of the Since Attlee & Churchill Summer Book Club, Lee and Richard are joined by Nan Sloane, author of 'Margaret Bondfield: The Life and Times of Britain’s First Female Cabinet Minister', to discuss the extraordinary life and career of one of the pioneers of the Labour movement. Bondfield was the first woman to speak from the despatch box in the House of Commons, the first woman Privy Counsellor and the first woman Cabinet Minister. But her life is much more than a series of remarkable firsts. In this episode, Lee, Richard and Nan look at Bondfield's difficult childhood and…
Andy Burnham has been Prime Minister for a month, but how good a start has he made? Lee and Richard debate Burnham’s first weeks in Downing Street, with Lee arguing that the new Prime Minister has so far offered little more than Martin Lewis-style tinkering to save people a few quid instead of the genuinely bold programme the country needs (and he promised). Meanwhile, Richard argues that Burnham has already delivered a surprisingly substantive programme of policies. Next, Richard turns to the United States to discuss the fascinating history of the American states that were once, at least in…
Benjamin Disraeli remains one of the most influential figures in Conservative history – but how much of the Disraeli we think we know was created after his death? In this episode, Lee and Richard are joined by Emily Jones, author of 'The Disraeli Myth: The Making of a Conservative Tradition'. They discuss how successive generations were inspired by Disraeli and reinvented him to suit their own political purposes, from Tory Socialists and Edwardian tariff reformers to One Nation Conservatives. What made Disraeli such a compelling figure in Tory history? How important was his Jewish identity…
In this episode of Since Attlee & Churchill, Lee and Richard consider the argument that supporting North Sea oil and gas extraction is an “extremist” position. How useful is it to label political opponents in this way? And has it been a mistake to reduce Britain's environmental policy to what is essentially a spreadsheet exercise in calculating carbon emissions? They then turn to a new article exploring the relationship between politicians and their constituents through the letters and emails that MPs receive. Drawing on the correspondence of politicians including Tony Benn and Enoch Powell,…
In this episode, Lee and Richard discuss the remarkable life of James Douglas-Hamilton, the Scottish Tory politician who had the rare distinction of serving in three legislative chambers: the House of Commons, the House of Lords, and the Scottish Parliament, earning a reputation in each for courtesy and quiet effectiveness. Born the grandson of two Dukes and educated at Eton and Oxford, Douglas-Hamilton spent most of his life in politics. What motivated him? What did he achieve during his long career in public service? And why did he become the last MP to disclaim a hereditary peerage? These…
In this episode, Lee and Richard discuss the controversy over whether the Conservative Party is still the home of One Nation Conservatism. Drawing on the long history of One Nation ideas, stretching back to Benjamin Disraeli in the Victorian era, Lee argues that the tradition has become confused in recent decades with liberal conservatism - and makes the case for reclaiming its original emphasis on national cohesion, social responsibility and patriotism. Next, Richard examines what Prime Minister Andy Burnham meant when he suggested that his devolution reforms could lead to a written…
Ann Clwyd spent her political career on the Labour left. She marched with the miners, opposed nuclear weapons, rebelled against her own party, and was sacked from Labour's front bench more than once. Yet she also became one of the strongest supporters of the Iraq War. How? In this episode of Since Attlee & Churchill, Richard and Lee explore the life of one of Labour's most independent-minded MPs. They discuss Clwyd's Welsh upbringing, her route into Parliament, the battles she fought with her own party on everything from welfare to devolution, and the convictions that led her to champion…
In this week's Matters of Interest, Richard asks whether England's university funding system has reached breaking point after Sir Nick Clegg - one of the men who implemented it - described it as "indefensible". Rather than focusing on tuition fees, Richard argues that the coalition government's removal of student number caps was the real turning point. Lee then turns to one of the biggest political changes that has received remarkably little national attention: the sweeping reorganisation of local government across much of England. Why are historic council boundaries being redrawn? Is the…
In this Summer Book Club episode, Richard turns interviewer as he puts Lee in the hot seat to discuss his new book, 'Coronations & Defenestrations: Choosing (and losing) Tory Leaders'. Together they explore how the Conservative Party has picked – and ditched – its leaders from the age of Disraeli to the present day. Was the old system of "emergence" really as undemocratic as it's often portrayed? Why did Harold Macmillan's handling of the 1963 succession bring that system to an end? And did William Hague's 1998 reforms create the instability that has seen Conservative leaders come and go…
In this week's Matters of Interest, Richard argues that Andy Burnham's first policy announcements reveal an unexpected reliance on central government power and a willingness to exploit the policy freedoms created by Brexit. Does the reality of governing mean Burnham is abandoning his former enthusiasm for devolution and closer European alignment? Next, Lee challenges claims that taking foreign leaders outside London to 'Number 10 North', as brief by allies of the Prime Minister, would be a radical innovation, highlighting the long history of PMs showing off every corner of the UK to visiting…
This week, Lee and Richard are joined by former Business Secretary and Liberal Democrat leader Vince Cable to discuss his new book, 'Eclipsing the West: China, India and the Forging of a New World.' Drawing upon his experience as an economist, Cabinet minister and long-time observer of Asia, Cable argues that the world's economic centre of gravity is shifting decisively away from the West. He is asked about Britain's relationships with both India and China during the Coalition Government and whether the UK's much-vaunted "golden era" of relations with China was actually naïve. The…
In this week's Matters of Interest, Lee looks back at mid-term changes of Prime Minister and asks: do new leaders tend to transform their party's fortunes? Or will Labour MPs hoping for a boost under new Prime Minister Andy Burnham be left disappointed? Next, Richard explores one of the most extraordinary Supreme Court cases in American history, concerning an axe murder at RAF Upper Heyford in Oxfordshire. Deciding who had jurisdiction over the case led the US Supreme Court to overturn one of its own decisions, an almost unheard-of event. What does the case reveal about the relationship…
Almost twenty years after Tony Blair left Downing Street, how should we judge the record of New Labour? In this Summer Book Club episode, Lee and Richard are joined by historian Glen O'Hara to discuss his new book, 'New Labour, New Britain?' Together they assess the Blair governments of 1997-2007, exploring whether their domestic record has been overshadowed by Iraq and asking what New Labour actually achieved. The discussion ranges from the transformation of the NHS and public services to education reform, welfare, crime, housing and globalisation, as well as Blair's political style, his…
This week, Richard and Lee place two of the biggest stories in British politics into their historical context. Richard explores the curious history of MPs who have voluntarily triggered by-elections – upon accepting ministerial appointment, changing parties, or as a form of policy protest – and asks where Nigel Farage's decision to force a contest in Clacton fits within that tradition. Lee then examines Andy Burnham's unopposed march to the Labour leadership and premiership. Looking back at Conservative leaders who reached the top by 'emergence' rather than leadership elections, he considers…
Throughout the summer, we'll be interviewing authors of recent books that chime with the themes of the podcast. This week, we're joined by historian and author Alwyn Turner to discuss his latest book, 'A Shellshocked Nation'. In this sweeping portrait of Britain between the wars, Alwyn reveals far more than the political history of the period, uncovering remarkable cultural, technological and social change as well. As we discuss how Britain recovered from the First World War while beginning to confront the approaching horrors of the Second, a recurring theme of our conversation is the…
About Since Attlee & Churchill
The podcast about post-war British politics - since Attlee & Churchill. Hosted by Lee David Evans, an historian of the Conservative Party, and Richard Johnson, an historian of the Labour Party. Enjoy ad-free listening, bonus episodes and show your support for the podcast by joining the Since Attle
Since Attlee & Churchill is a English history podcast from Lee David Evans & Richard Johnson. Melo plays each episode straight from the publisher's own feed — no ads added, no account needed — and remembers where you stopped, in this browser only.
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