Episode 370

0:00Speaker 1:Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

0:13Speaker 2:Her car was moving from her house.

0:16Speaker 3:It was covered in blood in the driver's seat.

0:19Speaker 4:She wasn't the one driving. She was in the back.

0:23Speaker 5:Look.

0:25Speaker 1:I know how much of my audience is triggered right now because the courts ruled that you can't murder your own children. And then, to make matters worse, Sydney Sweeney took her clothes off again. So let's eat some more ice cream and listen to some true crime, and we'll get through this together. Welcome to Struggle Session 370. I'm your host, the illustrious Mike Boudet. Oh my god, did I offend someone again?

1:02Speaker 3:Oh no!

1:18Speaker 1:I had to look up the word illustrious, by the way.

1:20Speaker 6:I guess it fits.

1:27Speaker 1:Just remember that life is all about finding new things to get mad about.

1:32Speaker 7:It's 2019.

1:57Speaker 1:Jennifer is 50 years old and raising five kids, including two sets of twins. They range in age from 8 to 13, and by all accounts, she is a devoted mother. For nearly two years, she and her kids have lived without her husband in a massive white house in New Canaan. It has almost 10,000 square feet, a three-car garage, and is worth millions. Custody of the kids is technically shared, but most days the house, the homework, and the packed lunches fall to Jennifer. Jennifer is also a writer with a Master of Fine Arts. She keeps a blog. Sometimes she writes fiction. Sometimes it reads more like a diary.

2:45Speaker 1:And sometimes it becomes a place to put her frustrations, much like this podcast is to me. In one post, she wrote, The boys declared at their pickup that I should go to mommy jail, where they corner you in the kitchen, tie you up in a striped apron, and beat you with wooden spoons. About an hour away sits another house. It's just as large, but the family that lives there has a very different dynamic. Inside that house, Michelle goes about her day. It's her boyfriend's home. She, too, moved in about two years ago. after meeting him at a Miami water ski competition. Her 12-year-old daughter, Nicole, lives with them most of the time, and the boyfriend's kids are there some weekends. Michelle has projects of her own, and she also helps her boyfriend with his business. As she later explained, she wasn't someone who could just sit around the house.

3:48Speaker 7:Listen, I don't work for Fordham. I was helping him, because I was... I have my rocks, I have my.

3:54Speaker 8:Daughter, and it's just because I have time to do things, and I cannot be just sitting around.

4:00Speaker 1:Two women don't really know each other, but their lives are colliding. Because the same man ties them together. His name is Fotis Doulos. On the morning of May 24, 2019, after dropping the children at school, Jennifer's Suburban was recorded returning to Wells Lane. At 11 a.m., the nanny arrived. The plan for her was to bring the children to New York, where they would meet Jennifer, attend dentist appointments, and stay with Grandma. It was an hour's drive to the city, and Jennifer was going to leave the Suburban for the nanny and the kids. But when the nanny opened the middle garage door, she was surprised to find the Range Rover parked there. The Suburban was missing. That wasn't the only weird thing she noticed. Jennifer's carry-all bag, which she always traveled with, was on the floor. In the kitchen, a cup of tea was still full, sitting next to an uneaten granola bar. Strangest of all, the nanny noticed the paper towel holder beside the sink was empty.

5:10Speaker 1:When she went to the pantry to replace it, she noticed that the 12 rolls that she'd bought the day before were now down to two. After picking up the kids at 12.30, she went back to the house to feed them lunch and pack a few things. The kids were getting ready to leave for New York, but Noelle couldn't find her iPad for the ride.

5:33Speaker 9:The kids went and got their iPads for the car ride. And I just cleaned up quickly, put everything away. And then I texted Jennifer because Noelle couldn't find hers. And so I asked, we had like a family iPad. And so I asked if she could take that instead. And then we got in the car and headed to New York. So right before we left the driveway, I texted her our ETA and that we would be at Gloria's. And then I just started driving. And then I texted her when we got to Gloria's.

6:04Speaker 1:Gloria, Jennifer's mother, lived in New York.

6:08Speaker 9:After we got to Gloria's around 2.30 and she wasn't there. And I was supposed to meet Jennifer at Gloria's. I wasn't supposed to go to the orthodontist. I was going to be heading back home. but she wasn't there, and so I called her around 4 o'clock.

6:24Speaker 1:According to the nanny, Jennifer always answered her phone. She knew that Jennifer and the kids had appointments at the same dentist, but she wasn't sure how to get there. So she plugged the address into the navigation system and hoped she'd see Jennifer's car when she pulled into the lot. But she didn't. The situation was becoming more extremely concerning.

6:50Speaker 9:The second I called Jennifer, it's like my stomach just sank because she never not answered her phone. So I was really hopeful that she just got caught up with meetings and she was going to be there. And so when she didn't, she wasn't there, I just came, I was shocked, but also like, okay, I have the four kids in front of me and don't know what to do. So I just put them in to their appointments and I left The nanny.

7:24Speaker 1:Made a few phone calls, but back at New Canaan, the house sat empty and quiet. The missing Suburban was the only visible sign that anything was wrong. But what the nanny could not see were the small and almost microscopic traces of blood. Investigators would later find multiple stains, suspected blood spatter, and signs that someone had tried to clean the garage. Jennifer had not simply left. Jennifer Dulos' father, Hillard Farber, made a fortune on Wall Street, running a successful bond brokerage. Her mother, Gloria, was a philanthropist who used some of the money to found an educational charity with her husband. Jennifer grew up in Manhattan, one of three kids. Some of her closest friendships lasted nearly her entire life.

8:54Speaker 6:This is my friend Jenny, at 20, on my roof in Brooklyn. the summer we lived together. Jenny Farber was my friend for 46 years, from when we were four to when we were 50, from community nursery school to middle school math class to Brown University. You have to be pretty extraordinary to inspire friendship that evergreen.

9:26Speaker 10:She was.

9:27Speaker 6:All the adjectives, deep, beautiful, genius, outrageous, gentle, and wise, can't even come close.

9:38Speaker 1:Jennifer and Fotis met in the early 90s at Brown University. She was an undergrad. Serious, smart, quiet. Fotis was a year ahead, studying applied math. They made a connection, but Fotis ended up with someone else. Jennifer went on to get her Master's of Fine Arts in Writing from NYU. She started publishing. She was articulate, but guarded. And she never found her dream man until she ran into Fotis again in 2003. He had already earned an MBA at Columbia and eventually started a construction company. Four group. specializing in exclusive luxury homes. When they connected again, he was separated from his wife, or at least that's what he told Jennifer. They married in 2004, only about a month after his divorce was final. Jennifer was 36 and had always wanted kids. Now she had her chance. Jennifer underwent fertility treatments, and they had five kids together in the span of seven years.

10:50Speaker 6:But every time that I was with Jennifer and her children, she was deeply, truly content. She was always holding one kid's hand, had another in her lap, was making a crazy joke with two of them. She delighted in them wholly. The most relaxed, beautiful, and fulfilled I have seen her in all my years of friendship with her was with them.

11:14Speaker 1:They seemed to have everything they could possibly want. They had a mansion in Farmington, Connecticut, kids, and money. But inside, things were starting to split. Fotis was obsessed with water skiing. He pushed the kids into it, hard. Jennifer wasn't into sports or skiing and didn't like the pressure he put on the kids with trips to Miami, ski coaches, and expectations to be the best. She felt Fotis was more focused on their performance than their well-being. Unlike Jennifer, Michelle Traconis built her life around sports. In Argentina, she hosted a skiing and outdoor sports program for ESPN. That athletic side is part of what drew Fotis to her when they met at the water skiing event in Miami. Didn't come out of nowhere. Fotis said he was separated from his wife, but in reality, Fotis and Jennifer were still living in the same house. So the relationship developed largely in Miami during trips when Jennifer stayed behind. The nanny was often there with the children.

12:29Speaker 9:Yeah, so Fotis introduced her as a friend and she was nice. She was with Fotis a lot, like they'd go on the boat to ski. But there was one time I had a conversation with her when we were underneath the little tent where you can kind of just hang out. I remember the conversation. She was telling me she just got back from Colorado and She was looking at schools to go for her daughter to go to because her daughter was a very good snow skier. So she wanted her to, I think, get better or more opportunities there, I guess. But she was friendly.

13:00Speaker 1:That wasn't the first time Michelle had been to Miami with him.

13:04Speaker 4:Yeah.

13:04Speaker 9:So when we got there, they were calling her Mitchie. And so it's and they hugged her. So like they already knew her. I believe it was the two boys, so Petros and Theodore. I don't think Rashawn and Constantine or Noel had met her yet.

13:20Speaker 1:In her writing and emails, Jennifer described her frustrations and growing concern that something was off in her marriage. The nanny remembered that things got a little weird sometimes when they were in Miami, like Fotis started spending less time with the kids and putting more responsibilities on her. She'd be exhausted but expected to play laser tag with the kids. while Fotis and Michelle sat in the lounge area, talking and relaxing. Then Fotis would send the nanny and the kids back home while he spent more time in Miami.

13:54Speaker 1:Back at Jennifer's home, she was becoming increasingly suspicious of Fotis' extended traveling and was convinced he was having an affair. At first, the nanny said she didn't see any signs of it. But after a while, Jennifer caught on.

14:11Speaker 9:She told me he is having an affair and I have proof. I think through email and receipts, she found out that he went on a trip to Utah with Michelle and a friend of his and his girlfriend. She was, I think she just was just like, I knew it. She, again, very soft spoken. So she seemed sad, but also just kind of like she was trying to figure out what to do.

14:39Speaker 1:Jennifer had already decided the marriage could not be saved. And she confided this to the nanny.

14:46Speaker 9:So I was in the house the next day and when Fotis arrived too. And so when I got to the house, she pulled me aside and told me that she spoke to Fotis and he admitted to the affair and that she was going to try and have us be as civil as possible.

15:05Speaker 7:She opened up more.

15:06Speaker 9:Saying that she was no longer in love with Fotis, but she wanted, she had five kids, so they were going to try and work out what they could.

15:17Speaker 1:In June of 2017, she filed for divorce and moved the kids to New Canaan to be closer to her mom and extended family. But the separation was not civil. Over the next two years, the case generated more than 300 court filings involving custody, finances, and competing accusations. Jennifer told the court she was afraid of Fotis because he threatened her. He also told her if she divorced him, he'd take the kids and disappear to Greece.

15:48Speaker 6:The week before she was killed, Jenny called me. She was feeling hopeful about the future, that there was light at the end of the divorce tunnel.

15:56Speaker 1:On May 24, 2019, at about 7 p.m., Jennifer was reported missing. By 8.30 that night, the police were at Fotis' home in Farmington, where he lived with Michelle. Fotis said he had not seen Jennifer. Michelle would later tell detectives that Fotis had described Jennifer as mentally ill and prone to dramatic behavior, and he suggested that she might have disappeared on her own. As the investigation intensified, Fotis began speaking publicly. In a television interview... He presented himself as a concerned father and denied wishing Jennifer any harm.

16:37Speaker 11:I had my differences with Jennifer, like many people do when they go through a marriage. It didn't work out for us, but that doesn't mean that I wish her ill in any way. I wake up every day and I feel like somebody's sitting on my chest. It's terrible not to have your children.

16:55Speaker 1:I don't think anything.

16:56Speaker 7:Compares to that.

16:58Speaker 1:Fotis acknowledged that people often suspect the spouse... But he insisted he was the exception.

17:05Speaker 11:So statistically, when something like this happens, 90 or 95 percent, it's the spouse. So I can understand.

17:11Speaker 1:Why people feel like this.

17:13Speaker 11:I'm in the 5 or 10 percent category.

17:17Speaker 1:And he said the truth would eventually clear him.

17:20Speaker 11:I know what I've done and I know what I haven't done. So I have to stand and fight and hope that the truth is going.

17:29Speaker 7:To come out.

17:31Speaker 1:That's what the police were sure of. The truth was going to come out. Investigators were already working to determine whether his account matched the evidence. The next morning, police returned with a warrant to Fotis' phone and began examining location data, calls, and his movements in the days surrounding Jennifer's disappearance. Fotis already had a lawyer, of course. He urged Michelle and Pavel to an employee of the four group, to get attorneys also. Michelle said she didn't understand why she needed one. She had not yet been charged. But within days, detectives were asking her to account for her own movements and also for Fotis' movements. You know you didn't do anything, right?

18:21Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I've been in New Orleans.

18:22Speaker 4:So, but yeah, you find yourself there.

18:24Speaker 9:So the.

18:24Speaker 7:Yes, and I'm like, why I'm here? Like, I have a normal life.

18:28Speaker 8:A beautiful life with my daughter, and ever since I got to Connecticut, it's been like a nightmare.

18:34Speaker 2:How long have you been here?

18:39Speaker 9:I started coming in June of 2017, in.

18:42Speaker 8:The summer, back and forth, because I couldn't be here when he was with the kids by port.

18:49Speaker 7:So I would go to Miami, which I was.

18:51Speaker 4:Upset because I'm alone.

18:52Speaker 7:I have to fly every four days.

18:54Speaker 4:Back and forth.

18:57Speaker 1:The detectives listened, but they were watching for body language. Something caught their attention. To the detectives, Michelle seemed genuinely scared.

19:09Speaker 4:I just want to go back to when you were being processed. We noticed how he was treating you.

19:16Speaker 2:I noticed it.

19:17Speaker 4:And specifically, he looked like he was.

19:20Speaker 7:Staring a hole in your head.

19:25Speaker 3:Do you remember when you were sitting against the wall when he was getting the phone numbers out of the phone and your head was between your knees?

19:32Speaker 4:Remember you were feeling faint, you.

19:34Speaker 12:Weren't feeling well?

19:35Speaker 9:Yes, yes, yes.

19:35Speaker 7:I was feeling still the same.

19:37Speaker 3:You looked a lot worse that night than you have in the last 24 hours that I've been spending with you.

19:43Speaker 4:He asked you a question, you didn't respond.

19:46Speaker 3:And he looked at you, though you didn't see it, because your face was down.

19:50Speaker 2:And he gave you the most evil, long.

19:53Speaker 7:Look I've ever seen. And we had to break him from it.

19:58Speaker 9:He looked at me?

19:59Speaker 4:Yeah, he looked at you.

20:00Speaker 3:And we became very concerned for your safety just based on our experience and what we do.

20:08Speaker 7:And what we witnessed.

20:09Speaker 4:And what we've learned throughout the.

20:12Speaker 3:Last, you know, several days.

20:14Speaker 1:The detectives took her back to the night she and Fotis were brought in. During processing, they had watched how Fotis reacted to her and how closely he seemed to monitor her.

20:27Speaker 7:The point is that he's overly concerned.

20:30Speaker 4:Okay.

20:31Speaker 7:Because you were breaking down. Well, because I'm like.

20:35Speaker 10:What am I doing here? So.

20:40Speaker 7:What that shows us is he was concerned about what you were going.

20:44Speaker 4:To say or do.

20:45Speaker 10:Okay.

20:46Speaker 7:Because it's stuff that we think that you know.

20:50Speaker 4:Okay. That's what we're getting at.

20:52Speaker 10:Okay.

20:52Speaker 12:When you came here, when you were under arrest or when you were in custody having your prints taken, then when you came.

20:59Speaker 1:Here last night, you were a shambles.

21:02Speaker 4:You were shambles. You were in tears.

21:05Speaker 3:You were very upset.

21:05Speaker 4:You were hunched over. Really nothing that you told us today is an indication, why would you be so upset if it was only what you told us today?

21:18Speaker 7:Why am I upset? Because I'm upset at the whole situation.

21:22Speaker 8:I'm like, why, I mean, why it's me that is happening this when I haven't done anything? And I'm like so innocent and I'm like being charged. We're not saying that you did anything.

21:33Speaker 4:We think that you know something.

21:34Speaker 13:And it may not be something you know in this part of your head, maybe something that you feel in the back of your.

21:40Speaker 11:Head as far as.

21:43Speaker 1:By then, detectives were no longer treating Jennifer's disappearance as an ordinary missing persons case. They told Michelle the blood evidence at Wells Lane pointed to a violent assault and that Jennifer was unlikely to be alive. They believed the attack happened in the garage and that more than one person had been involved in moving her and cleaning up afterwards.

22:08Speaker 2:We don't necessarily think that you had something to do with killing her, but we think that you have some information that would help us find her.

22:17Speaker 8:I can go with you guys and I can spend 24 hours looking.

22:21Speaker 3:Michelle, the mess.

22:24Speaker 9:I know.

22:24Speaker 4:The mess of blood that existed.

22:29Speaker 12:Whoever moved her car.

22:31Speaker 2:Moved her car.

22:32Speaker 1:Her car was moved from her house.

22:34Speaker 4:Her personal car. was covered in blood in the driver's seat. And she wasn't the one driving, she was.

22:39Speaker 10:In the back.

22:40Speaker 7:With, with, with.

22:42Speaker 3:Amounts of blood that are not, you're not going to be alive, okay?

22:48Speaker 4:You understand what I'm saying? And someone drove that car. There is no way.

22:54Speaker 14:Otis, Pavel, whoever, I came back and it wasn't obvious that something horrible happened.

23:00Speaker 4:And you don't just clean that up.

23:02Speaker 2:They would have had to have.

23:02Speaker 4:Changed their clothes or washed up. And where are they going to go and wash up? Where are they going to go and wash up?

23:09Speaker 15:The car?

23:12Speaker 1:Where would they go? A couple people are.

23:16Speaker 16:Involved in this.

23:18Speaker 7:She bled a lot.

23:19Speaker 4:She what? She bled a lot.

23:21Speaker 7:And these people are covered in blood.

23:23Speaker 4:They drive the car.

23:25Speaker 3:And even where their hands are on the wheel, it's covered in blood. That blood's going to start to dry, and dry blood is not easy to get off your skin. It's not easy to get off your clothes. We've all had it happen.

23:38Speaker 1:Jennifer's body was still missing, but investigators were beginning to reconstruct the day through the vehicles connected to it. The first was Jennifer's black Suburban. Surveillance showed it returning to Wells Lane that morning and later leaving again. Investigators believed it had been used to move her from the house. Another vehicle was the red Tacoma that Fotis borrowed from his employee, Pavel. Investigators believed it was connected to Fotis' movements in New Canaan that morning. Michelle was also tied to what happened with the Tacoma after Fotis returned to Farmington.

24:21Speaker 1:Pavel testified that she had the truck's keys when he came to retrieve it. Prosecutors argued that Michel held onto the keys to give Fotis more time with the truck.

24:33Speaker 14:Once I got to 80 Mountain Spring Road to pick up my truck, there was no key for it. And he told me not to mention that, not to mention that Michel had a key.

24:49Speaker 1:Pavel eventually got the keys back, but when Fotis returned the truck, it had been cleaned and detailed. what's up with my truck?

24:57Speaker 7:Why did you clean it?

24:59Speaker 14:And he smiled at me and he says, because you were never going to do it. And I told him, seriously, why did you clean my truck? And he says, don't worry about it. There's nothing going on. I went to Jennifer's house for Mother's Day.

25:18Speaker 1:I gave her a hug. I told the cat.

25:21Speaker 7:And then I.

25:22Speaker 1:Came back and I was. And that wasn't the only strange thing Fotis said. He told Pavel that he should replace the truck's seats because they looked ghetto and would make it harder to sell. But Pavel noticed something else when Fotis returned the truck. His appearance.

25:52Speaker 10:I told him.

25:54Speaker 14:What are you doing? You shave your head? You're wearing dirty work clothes. You're trying to be as handsome as me?

26:04Speaker 1:When Fotis returned to Tacoma, he was wearing dirty work clothes and had recently cut his hair. Pavel testified that Fotis' appearance looked unusually similar to his own. Prosecutors later argued that the resemblance may have been deliberate. By then, police had found Jennifer's Suburban abandoned near her home. She'd been expected to drive it to New York that day. Parts of the interior had been removed, and testing revealed blood evidence connected to Jennifer. Surveillance footage caught a figure looking a lot like Fotis riding a child's bike from the park to Jennifer's home around the time she disappeared.

26:47Speaker 1:Detectives found disassembled parts of that bike in trash cans along the route. As police reviewed additional surveillance footage, they found another vehicle, Fotis' black Ford Raptor. And Michelle was with him. In the footage, the Raptor made stop after stop along Albany Avenue in Hartford. Not one or two, but dozens. Cameras from gas stations, city systems, and private businesses captured Fotis getting out near public trash bins and discarding bags and other items. If you think there's any privacy at all in 2026, you are severely mistaken. We're already in the cage, and the cage is monitored 24-7.

27:42Speaker 1:Investigators retraced the route one stop at a time. Some of the garbage had already been collected, compacted, and buried, under tons of city waste. But police recovered items that included blood-soaked sponges, paper towels, a blood-stained bra, and zip ties. Testing connected the blood to Jennifer. Prosecutors identified Fotis as the man seen disposing of the evidence. The footage also placed Michelle inside the Raptor throughout the entire route.

28:24Speaker 10:Uh-oh.

28:26Speaker 1:At one stop, she leaned out of the passenger side window, reaching down, just as Fotis was throwing something down a drain. She later said she was wiping gum off her fingers. Detectives pressed Jennifer about what Fotis had been throwing away, and whether the bags might help them find Jennifer. The bags.

28:47Speaker 12:Oh, no, go ahead.

28:49Speaker 8:But I heard that you said that you might think that there's pieces of Jennifer.

28:54Speaker 4:We are concerned that that's the case. Okay, that's why I'm saying what you're saying.

28:59Speaker 7:We want to find Jennifer.

29:00Speaker 2:Okay.

29:01Speaker 7:We want to find her.

29:01Speaker 4:For her family.

29:02Speaker 7:We want to find out what happened to her.

29:04Speaker 4:Even this bag, all right, are.

29:07Speaker 14:We going to find her at Fort Jefferson Crossing or any part of her?

29:12Speaker 4:I mean, you guys, I can go with you.

29:13Speaker 9:I can decode.

29:15Speaker 4:I can do whatever you want.

29:23Speaker 1:Michelle maintained that she had no idea what Fotis was even doing, even though surveillance placed her in the truck with Fotis throughout the disposal route, in a part of Hartford they said they rarely visited. Her DNA was later found on one of the discarded bags and on the seat of the Tacoma. The question was whether she had been following his lead without understanding whether she was truly a complete moron or whether she knew a lot more than she was admitting. Detectives had already pulled Fotis' phone records and The data made it look as though his phone stayed at the Farmington house that morning. But investigators believed surveillance placed Fotis in New Canaan. So, if he was gone, why was his phone still showing activity at home?

30:18Speaker 1:They began to suspect that someone else may have been handling it to help create an alibi. And they wanted to know whether that person was Michelle.

30:28Speaker 5:Michelle.

30:29Speaker 1:Michelle denied knowing anything about that. During the interviews, she offered long, detailed answers, often circling but never directly answering the questions detectives were asking.

30:42Speaker 4:You said he went to the Hartford before, does it all, he does it. No, I said that we've done it in the past, not me, not in that area.

30:49Speaker 8:I've done it, not me, don't, but he's done it with me in Avon, in the club, in the pond, we've done it.

30:58Speaker 4:Which you're a member of. You're a member of.

31:00Speaker 10:Yes.

31:00Speaker 5:Okay.

31:00Speaker 10:Yes.

31:01Speaker 9:That's fine.

31:01Speaker 4:You have a dumpster and you want to throw something.

31:03Speaker 5:I get that.

31:04Speaker 16:Yes.

31:05Speaker 9:Okay.

31:06Speaker 4:I just want to, I kind of want to stop you for a second. Especially now that it's a straight plan.

31:10Speaker 9:Maybe.

31:10Speaker 12:All right.

31:13Speaker 4:12 times I've been in.

31:14Speaker 10:All right.

31:14Speaker 4:Yeah.

31:16Speaker 15:I'll stay to turn it around. This is not a meeting the way we want to expand. We don't want to expand. We don't want to name a whole bunch of things. We want to focus in. and what we believe you know.

31:29Speaker 12:Right now, like I told you before, you're under arrest for certain things, not for murder.

31:36Speaker 7:Accessory?

31:39Speaker 4:What?

31:39Speaker 3:Accessory?

31:40Speaker 6:No, you're not.

31:41Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no.

31:43Speaker 13:You need to know.

31:44Speaker 7:Listen to me.

31:45Speaker 4:Try to listen. You need to know.

31:50Speaker 12:You went down in the community with Phobos on Friday the 24th and murdered Chad Furman.

31:58Speaker 4:And where her body is. That's why we are here. We are not here to.

32:02Speaker 12:Go back several times. I've heard you going back to the strip. I want to go back to the strip. I want to go forward. You have to know you live with photos. You live with them during that time.

32:19Speaker 4:Let's not go back to this.

32:22Speaker 1:The divorce and custody battle had gotten ugly. Michelle referred to Jennifer as a According to witness testimony, she mocked her, belittled her, and said more than once, I want to kill her. On one occasion, the family dog, still living with Fotis and Michelle, had to be put down. Fotis was upset that the children could not say goodbye because a custody order allowed only supervised visits. According to testimony, Michelle said Jennifer should be buried right next to the dog. Still, it was possible Michelle believed what Fotis had told her about Jennifer and knew nothing about what he was planning.

33:08Speaker 4:We feel confident.

33:10Speaker 7:Listen to me.

33:11Speaker 13:We feel confident in a few things.

33:14Speaker 4:First of all, I'm not saying you planned this. There was a lot of pre-planning that went into this.

33:21Speaker 7:We're trying to find out what he did. We wouldn't be here I wouldn't have talked to your attorney and asked you to come in if I thought in a second that you knew what he was going to do.

33:35Speaker 2:I wouldn't.

33:36Speaker 7:I wouldn't waste our time because I would have just said, oh, arrest her. We're here.

33:40Speaker 4:Let me ask you a very simple question. What do you think happened to Jennifer Duras? Well, you said.

33:53Speaker 10:No, no, no, no.

33:55Speaker 4:No, no, no.

33:56Speaker 8:They're asking you.

34:01Speaker 4:For only your knowledge. Not what you read in the newspaper, not what you think the.

34:07Speaker 7:I think that she's.

34:08Speaker 4:Still somewhere, I hope, hiding.

34:11Speaker 8:You guys said that you find blood, so obviously she's not hiding from you.

34:16Speaker 4:Let me ask you a question. You have how many children?

34:21Speaker 9:One.

34:22Speaker 10:In the cold.

34:23Speaker 4:She's 12?

34:24Speaker 10:Yes.

34:25Speaker 4:Would you ever leave your 12-year-old daughter, listen, would you ever leave and go hide and not tell your 12-year-old daughter where you are?

34:35Speaker 9:Why not?

34:37Speaker 1:Fotis had told Michelle that Jennifer had struggled with her mental health and had disappeared before. Michelle still seemed to wonder whether she had run away. Detectives weren't buying it.

34:50Speaker 4:No, listen, the question was.

34:52Speaker 7:My question is, my only.

34:55Speaker 8:Answer that I can give is because from my understanding, she has a borderline personality disorder.

35:01Speaker 4:But you got that information from POTUS.

35:03Speaker 7:This is a man who killed his wife.

35:05Speaker 11:POTUS.

35:06Speaker 7:She told me he was going to kill her. Yes, I got it from POTUS.

35:09Speaker 4:Yes, I got it from POTUS and there's a.

35:12Speaker 7:Michelle.

35:18Speaker 13:Well, I'll be honest with you, Jennifer's on my mind.

35:22Speaker 12:Because I worry every day and every night about Jennifer.

35:27Speaker 4:So I apologize for calling you the name of the person who's been missing now for more than two years.

35:32Speaker 7:So shut up.

35:33Speaker 13:Here's the thing. We're here to find out where she is. We don't think that you have to want to orchestrate this. Our impression of Otis... is that he is a manipulative, controlling person.

35:50Speaker 1:That's everybody.

35:51Speaker 7:Based on information. Everybody's in question. Everybody is.

35:56Speaker 4:He wanted to get rid of his wife, and he did that. And we're looking to find her for her family's sake.

36:04Speaker 7:Kill the mother of his five children.

36:09Speaker 4:And we want help from you.

36:12Speaker 1:At times, Michelle became emotional and continued to insist that, She knew nothing about Jennifer's disappearance. Then detectives confronted her with something else Fotis had been hiding.

36:22Speaker 17:Wait, Fotis was trying to get back together with Jennifer?

36:27Speaker 18:What, what, what?

36:28Speaker 17:I said it.

36:43Speaker 4:Here he kills the mother of his five children.

36:46Speaker 7:And according to his, you know, from what we hear from.

36:48Speaker 17:Other people and his phone, he appeared to have been wanting to get back.

36:52Speaker 3:With that woman.

36:56Speaker 4:Who wanted to get back to her?

36:58Speaker 7:The love of your life. The man you.

37:01Speaker 4:Sleep with every night.

37:02Speaker 11:Text message.

37:03Speaker 4:We have the text messages from Polis and Jennifer.

37:06Speaker 1:We're going back to March.

37:07Speaker 7:We have it.

37:09Speaker 6:But why in March?

37:10Speaker 2:Do you We haven't stolen.

37:12Speaker 1:We have everything.

37:13Speaker 4:I know, but for what?

37:14Speaker 7:Michelle, Michelle, when he tells you... Let me tell you something about photos.

37:18Speaker 12:Yeah, no, Michelle.

37:19Speaker 7:Michelle, we're not trying.

37:20Speaker 3:To tell you. We want to tell you something that everyone in this room.

37:23Speaker 4:Is probably going to agree with. Photos lies to everyone. And the reason he lies.

37:28Speaker 12:To everyone is he cares about one person in the world.

37:31Speaker 4:That's himself. He didn't care about his first wife. He didn't care about his second wife. He doesn't care about you.

37:38Speaker 1:Now, Michelle was hearing that Fotis had been trying to reconcile with Jennifer, the same woman prosecutors said he was determined to remove from his life. So, why kill her? Well, money was part of it. Jennifer's family had invested millions in 4Group, and the divorce threatened the company's future. But Fotis was also facing a loss of custody, access to his children, his home. and the life he'd built around them. The courts can be absolutely brutal to men, and he was sophisticated enough to know that. Then the case changed again, not because of something detectives uncovered, but because of what Fotis did next.

38:33Speaker 10:Thank you.

39:01Speaker 1:Investigators believed they knew what had happened to Jennifer Dulos. She'd been attacked in the garage of her New Canaan home, and Fotis had used multiple vehicles to move her and dispose of the evidence. Her body was never found. The evidence extended beyond New Canaan. Neighbors near Fotis' Farmington home reported smoke coming from the chimney, despite temperatures being in the mid-80s. Investigators later recovered charred remains of clothing, plastic, and zip ties from the ashes. Michelle was at home at the time, but she denied knowing what had been burned.

39:44Speaker 1:So she was either the world's biggest idiot, or she was involved. Evidence also placed Michelle beside Fotis during the Hartford disposal route. Her DNA was found on one of the discarded bags. Detectives also recovered a handwritten timeline in her handwriting that appeared to support their account of the day Jennifer disappeared. Michelle eventually acknowledged that she and Fotis had worked on it together. She said they were trying to remember the day accurately, not deceive investigators. And just as the state prepared to put Fotis Doulos on trial, he killed himself.

40:27Speaker 18:Fotis Doulos' attorney Norm Pattis delivered the news here outside Jacoby Medical Center this afternoon that Doulos was declared dead just after 5.30 this evening. This follows a suicide attempt two days ago when Doulos was discovered unresponsive inside a vehicle in the garage of his Farmington, Connecticut home the same day he was to appear in court for a bond hearing. He was airlifted to Jacoby Medical Center with carbon monoxide poisoning. Dulos was accused in the murder of his estranged wife, Jennifer, who went missing in May of last year and has never been found.

41:00Speaker 1:Fotis' death meant the state would never put its accused killer on trial. Jennifer was still missing, and he could no longer be questioned, convicted, or forced to account for what had happened to her. That left only one person.

41:15Speaker 10:Michelle.

41:18Speaker 1:Michelle Draconis' trial would not determine where Jennifer was or produce a murder verdict against Fotis, but it would determine whether Michelle had knowingly joined the conspiracy and helped cover it up. More than four years after Jennifer was murdered, Michelle Draconis finally went on trial in a Stanford courtroom lined with cameras and reporters. She faced six felony charges. including conspiracy to commit murder, evidence tampering, and hindering prosecution.

41:55Speaker 1:The jury saw two different versions of who she was. Prosecutors said Michelle was not an unsuspecting girlfriend caught in Fotis' lies. They argued that her changing accounts, the written timeline, the Hartford surveillance, and her DNA on a discarded bag showed that she was knowingly helping him. The defense said Fotis had manipulated her. She was just a dumb woman that can be easily manipulated. That was the defense. She had no role in Jennifer's death. She had no idea what was going on. And that confusion and the language difference and the poor memory, that was all just, you know, stuff that happened to Michelle. She was innocent. It was Fotis who had done all this, and she had no involvement.

42:47Speaker 1:Are you buying that? Well, Assistant State Attorney Sean McGinnis had this to say in his closing arguments.

42:54Speaker 2:Once you conclude that Mr. Doulos is responsible for the death of his wife, you then go to the next questions, which are, is this defendant legally responsible for her death? Is this defendant legally responsible for conspiring to tamper with evidence, for acting as an accessory to tamper with evidence?

43:17Speaker 1:Was the defendant motivated to.

43:21Speaker 7:Harm Jennifer Dulos?

43:23Speaker 2:I want you to make no mistake about this. This defendant hated Jennifer Dulos. She referred to her as a bitch who should be buried.

43:35Speaker 7:Next to the dog.

43:37Speaker 1:Prosecutors also pointed to Michelle's own comments about Jennifer.

43:41Speaker 2:She said, you people are toxic, referring to Fotis Dulos and Jennifer Dulos. She said that since she moved to Connecticut, it had been two years of torture.

43:52Speaker 4:She even admitted, if you caught it.

43:54Speaker 2:That she demanded that Fotis Dulos go to therapy with her because of Jennifer Dulos.

44:00Speaker 1:But her comments about Jennifer weren't the only thing prosecutors found troubling. They also challenged how Michelle explained being on the passenger side of Pavel's Tacoma that day.

44:12Speaker 2:That is completely contrary to the evidence. And I also just want to say this. And I don't quite know where this fits in. That's for you guys as the fact finders to decide. There's something unsettling about the defendant and Mr. Dulos fooling around on the passenger side of that Tacoma on May 24th, 2019. The defendant in this case repeatedly lied to investigators. Repeatedly lied to investigators. What does that say about the culpability? What does that say about what she knew in advance? What does that say about what she knew was going to happen to Jennifer Dulos and what she knew they did after the fact?

44:59Speaker 2:Why is someone who is innocent lying so much? That's a question for you to answer.

45:06Speaker 1:The jury now had to decide whether Michelle had merely believed Fotis' lies or knowingly joined Fotis' plan and helped conceal the crime. And on March 1st, 2024, the jury answered that question. They found Michelle Draconis guilty on six felony counts. Conspiracy to commit murder. Two counts of tampering with physical evidence. And two counts of conspiracy to tamper with evidence. Also hindering prosecution. A judge would later vacate one of the conspiracy to tamper convictions on double jeopardy grounds.

45:44Speaker 1:Before the sentencing, Michelle spoke to the judge. She focused on her innocence, the impact on her family, and the people who continued to support her.

45:55Speaker 5:Your Honor, I am deeply saddened by this tragedy that has affected so many lives. I found out things before and during trial about a man, Fotistulo, I thought I knew and loved. I deeply regret ever being in a relationship with Fotis Toulos and bringing my daughter, my family, and myself into our lives, into his life. I am a person of profound faith and I have been praying and will continue to pray for those who suffered and still suffer. I am thankful to my whole family and my dear friends who have stood by me and support me.

46:50Speaker 1:Don't you just hate it when profoundly evil people bring up the name of the Lord like that? Like they're on the same team? Jennifer's youngest daughter then addressed the court and described the consequences that her family continued. to live with.

47:12Speaker 17:Your Honor, Michelle Triconis and her actions have affected my life in many ways. I've now lost the two people I've loved most.

47:21Speaker 2:In this world.

47:22Speaker 17:My mom will now never get to see me or my siblings grow up, something I had known she had always wanted. I'm now growing up without my mother. This is something no child should ever have to do.

47:35Speaker 16:Her life was cut short and Michelle was a contributor. Finding closure is impossible considering Michelle never gave any information about where my mother is and what actually happened on May 24th, 2019. Because of that day, I constantly feel like something worse is bound to happen to the people I love and it can be my last moments with them at any minute. I remember seeing these stories on the news and thinking they were just simply crazy stories and it would never happen to my family or me.

48:11Speaker 17:But because it did, I feel scared that it will happen again and again to everyone I love most. Most of all, I feel betrayed by Michelle. I vividly remember her on ski trips when I was scared to sleep at night or her picking me off my bunk bed because I was scared to go down on my own. And I remember trusting her. I don't understand how she could be so selfish. And it scares me to put my trust in other people now because of Michelle Draconis. She's made my family and me suffer. Because of this, I believe she should serve the consequences of her actions.

48:49Speaker 17:And I believe she should receive the maximum sentence. Thank you, Your Honor.

48:56Speaker 13:Thank you.

48:58Speaker 1:On May 24th, Michelle Traconis was sentenced to 20 years in prison. She will serve 14 and a half years, followed by five years probation. She continues to appeal. her conviction. Gloria Farber, Jennifer's mother, is still pursuing a civil lawsuit to recover millions that her family gave to Fotis for his business. The verdict held Michelle criminally responsible for conspiring with Fotis and helping conceal the crime. But it could not answer every question. Fotis' death left Jennifer's family without a trial. without a verdict against him, and without an answer about where he'd put her, where she would lie for all eternity. Jennifer and Fotis' children were left to grow up without either parent, a verdict worse than anything I've mentioned so far. To this day, Jennifer's body has not been found. But, She left behind her own words about the ordinary moments with her children that meant the most to her. She said, The best part of my night now, hands down, is when I give our baby, Noelle, a bath and then her bottle in my arms. She falls asleep safe up against my chest.

50:33Speaker 10:I love it. It's my peace, solace, and and quiet reward. And even if we are meeting friends out for dinner or I am rushing to a movie with my husband Fotis, I make sure that I do that first. It's my passion, my joy, my connection.

50:57Speaker 1:Rest in peace, Jennifer. Well, we hope you enjoyed that one, ladies. Audiences, 70% female. You know, I never thought about this before, but some of you may listen to murder stories to figure out how to do them. Just hit me. Watch your back, 30%. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week.