536: Ancestral Healing: The Regeneration Process with Dr. Ame Cutler

0:00[SPEAKER_00]: Therapy-champocasts Episode 5-36 This is the Therapy Chat podcast with Laura Regan, LCSWC. [SPEAKER_00]: The information shared in this podcast is not a substitute for seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. [SPEAKER_00]: And now, here's your host Laura Regan, LCSWC. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, welcome back to Therapy Chat. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Laura Reagan. [SPEAKER_01]: What does healing the legacies of harm pass from one generation to the next look like?

0:48[SPEAKER_01]: That's the topic of this week's episode with my guests and one of my teachers, Dr. Amy Cutler. [SPEAKER_01]: Amy is a transdisciplinary trauma theorist, regenerative strategist and spiritual practitioner who refuses to separate healing from history, [SPEAKER_01]: or transformation from accountability. [SPEAKER_01]: Amy created the regeneration process and she's the founder of the Transgenerational Regeneration Institute, a community-based platform for dismantling inherited systems of harm and restoring ancestral ecological and relational integrity.

1:20[SPEAKER_01]: With a PhD in humanistic and transpersonal psychology, Dr. Cutler's academic and practical work interrogates the cultural and psychological impacts of colonization, white supremacy, transgenerational trauma and systemic oppression. [SPEAKER_01]: Her scholarship is not theoretical, it's embodied. [SPEAKER_01]: Born into a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant lineage shaped by, overwork, erasure, and inherited privilege, she has spent her life reclaiming what capitalism, Christianity, and settler logic tried to strip away, belonging, integrity, and ancestral responsibility.

1:54[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Cutler specializes in the legacies of harm past through both survivors and perpetrators. [SPEAKER_01]: Her work eliminates how the very systems that create trauma, imperialism, extraction, racial capitalism, also dictate the terms of what healing is, quote, allowed to look like. [SPEAKER_01]: She challenges the hyper-individualized model of Eurocentric psychotherapy and the deep politicized spiritual bypassing of the wellness industry.

2:19[SPEAKER_01]: Instead offering a path grounded in [SPEAKER_01]: Amy Cutler is a very passionate and knowledgeable person, and I've learned a ton from her when she was my trainer in sensory motor psychotherapy level two, but what she's doing now is a step beyond what we were doing there, and I'm really excited to share what she's offering [SPEAKER_01]: with you and hopefully you can learn from Amy if you're not familiar with her work already. [SPEAKER_01]: We are going to be sending out emails announcing all of the amazing offers for trauma therapists networks fifth birthday next week.

3:13[SPEAKER_01]: So in the month of August, 2026, you'll be hearing a lot about that for me on social media here and on through my email list. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're following me and you've been watching for the special offer for Trauma Therapist Network membership that's coming up just for a few days only it's basically a flash sale. [SPEAKER_01]: And the other offers such as discounts on the upcoming retreats and more exciting things like in-person gatherings for therapists, trauma therapists, network members and non-members.

3:54[SPEAKER_01]: Very exciting to be announcing all that, please, if you are looking for that information, be sure you are signed up for my email list. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a link in the show notes and there's a link in the show notes to the Google form for interest in the retreats. [SPEAKER_01]: All that stuff you can get to from the show notes or the trauma therapist network website. [SPEAKER_01]: As always, thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot more exciting episodes ahead for you over the next few months and I can't wait to share it all with you.

4:25[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for being on this journey with me. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, welcome back to Therapy Chat. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Laura Reagan, and today I'm so pleased to have with me a respected colleague and teacher, someone who I've learned a ton from Dr. Amy Cutler. [SPEAKER_01]: Amy, thank you so much for being my guest on Therapy Chat today. [SPEAKER_02]: Laura, thank you so much for the opportunity. [SPEAKER_02]: It's great to be here.

4:57[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so great to be back in connection with you. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like late 2018 or 2019 when I was in a training program and you were one of the co teachers. [SPEAKER_01]: You were doing much of the teaching and then that ended and, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: What wonderful things is Amy Cutler doing in the world and you know the pandemic happened and everything and then I [SPEAKER_01]: Bound you on Instagram and I was like, oh, lots of exciting things.

5:31[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get you on the podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: So I can't wait to talk about your upcoming book and the really super important work you're doing in our field. [SPEAKER_01]: But before we get into that, let's just start off by you telling our audience a little bit more about who you are and what you do. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big question. [SPEAKER_02]: These days, I am the founder of the Transgenerational Regeneration Institute, which is a community-based platform that I created to help dismantle systems of harm.

6:27[SPEAKER_02]: process to help us dismantle what holds us back from living from indigenous principles and regenerative lifestyles. [SPEAKER_02]: So when I stepped back from teaching so much, it was at a [SPEAKER_02]: that kept saying, Amy, you're doing too much. [SPEAKER_02]: You're doing too much, you're doing too much. [SPEAKER_01]: And I had marginalized injuries to my voice from teaching and talking too much. [SPEAKER_02]: And I had marginalized injuries to my feet from standing and traveling and teaching too much.

7:14[SPEAKER_02]: And I marginalized injuries from my knee. [SPEAKER_02]: All, [SPEAKER_02]: in service of what I truly believed was the greater good. [SPEAKER_02]: How can we spread, how can we spread methods that help people resolve trauma that they hold, not only psychological pro-trauma, but the trauma that they hold in their bodies. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I sacrificed a lot, or that purpose, but it became [SPEAKER_02]: overwhelmingly apparent that I could not keep pushing my body the way that I had been pushing it.

7:50[SPEAKER_02]: And in 2018 prior to the final injuries that kind of broke me, my eye was faced with the fact that an indigenous teacher that I had worked with 10 years, 20 years, 30 years [SPEAKER_02]: I had actually passed away before I could come and visit her again and she's from Southeast. [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't, this we didn't know a way apart of the indigenous peoples, some people, some people, which are part of my ancestry, and it stopped me in my tracks that I had been so busy that I could not honor that part of myself and that part of my path.

8:36[SPEAKER_02]: and that relationship that I have built years before decades before. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I made a decision to travel back up and recreate a journey that I had made in 1997. [SPEAKER_02]: with the program at PGD program called the Recovery of Indigenous Mind and in ancestral knowledge that was once in the San Francisco school system, holistic school system. [SPEAKER_02]: And I recreated that journey and made offerings to this teacher of mine, Berit, to Marit, Collio, and all of the sacred places that she had taken us to to learn about [SPEAKER_02]: And when I reached the top of Denmark and is sacred spiral that she had brought us to, I made an intention at the top of the world to change my life.

9:34[SPEAKER_02]: and to step on to the path that was always on the bad burner, you know, working with ancestors of people, working with cycles of oppression, working with helping Europeans and European Americans, those who wife us wife folks to actually heal. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what we carry in our ancestry, that is from an oppressor ancestry. [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't leave, I came back down, I couldn't leave the institute, because I was so obligated and it felt so responsible, and then I had healing crisis that I couldn't, and I had stopped in my traps.

10:15[SPEAKER_02]: Then the pandemic happened, and we all had to stop. [SPEAKER_02]: And in that time, so much happened, I mean, so much death happened, so much separation. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on people who will happen among families. [SPEAKER_02]: I lost my father during the pandemic. [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of bad things happened. [SPEAKER_02]: And other things that were regenerative started to happen. [SPEAKER_02]: Like nature began to show us, [SPEAKER_02]: that when we step back, when this of course was during a time and I was stepping back from the craziness of what it means to be at the top of your field, you know.

11:00[SPEAKER_02]: Nature showed us that when human step back and stop doing, just stop living, how we were living, that she regenerates herself. [SPEAKER_02]: In the matter of two months, skies that hadn't been clear in China had were cleared again. [SPEAKER_02]: The Himalayas that hadn't been seen in generations were being seen again. [SPEAKER_02]: Dolphins were returning to the waters of Venice. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was incredible. [SPEAKER_02]: And at the same time, my body and my voice although it will never truly be back to full health was also starting to regenerate because I was stopping, I was resting, I was doing exercises for it.

11:50[SPEAKER_02]: I was learning to re-earning, to connect, [SPEAKER_02]: with the Earth and the environment and people in my community, which I'd lost touch with, having been so busy. [SPEAKER_02]: And we also saw in the stopping, a lot of the social justice issues in our world that have always been happening, but now we had time to see that black people were being [SPEAKER_02]: violently murdered by our police systems, that the indigenous women who had been taken taken from their reservations raped in murder.

12:28[SPEAKER_02]: that had been happening for centuries, we began to hear these stories because we had time actually to hear them. [SPEAKER_02]: People got back in nature because they were working from home and they need to aches and we could go out and get some fresh air. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's when I started to say to myself, I got something bigger to do. [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a method to create. [SPEAKER_02]: I've got if I have an opportunity to put everything of learned, everything I've lived through, all that I love, the teachings that had been passed me by different Indigenous teachers, if I had that opportunity to put that out in the world and serve this other bigger social change, then I needed to do that.

13:20[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a big, big, big, big story. [SPEAKER_02]: It's more to it. [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, you know, you mentioned the health physical issues that kind of took you out and no, I don't mean this about you in particular, but when I was in that training program [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it just was so unsustainable the way the trainers would be traveling and teaching for, you know, hours and hours and hours and hours and I've let trainings before.

13:54[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it takes a lot out of you and when you're just doing it intensively weekend and then travel to another country and then do another weekend somewhere else and [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's one of those things where when you're in a training program like that and you see that it's not, it's like sort of, you're learning this approach and then you're going, but, [SPEAKER_02]: Let me say it for you, as a somatic therapist, as a trainer for a somatic institution, as someone who has healed through my body, works through my body, right?

14:46[SPEAKER_02]: So students from all over the world would say, how are you doing? [SPEAKER_02]: Are you okay? [SPEAKER_02]: They give me tricks from my voice and really. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, non-fine, I'm fine. [SPEAKER_02]: And that marginalization of the body, I want to say, isn't all of us all of us within the Eurocentric paradigm? [SPEAKER_02]: And paradigms that just push, push, push, push, push, push. [SPEAKER_02]: It's part of the ancestral legacy that we carry that needs, [SPEAKER_02]: has its own ancestral transgenerational trauma piece that needs to be healed.

15:18[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we marginalized connection to nature in the feminine centuries ago with the Enlightenment and before that. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's something that just keeps feeding the system because we haven't [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm definitely going to do that, and other people thought, and I wouldn't see it, but I wouldn't see it, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: It's, we're living in this colonization, and we're living in this commodification. [SPEAKER_01]: world, commodified world, where those of us, we therapist who are paying a lot of money to attend a training like this, we're working super hard, we're trying to earn a living, and then we're going out there and doing therapy and working super hard in doing therapy, and then what's the effect?

16:17[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing where it's like whether it's a trainer, [SPEAKER_01]: providing the therapy where we're not taking care of ourselves, but where [SPEAKER_01]: You know, encouraging people to be connected with their bodies and to be connected with nature yet. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're not really living it ourselves. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, you mentioned before we started recording how the mental health is, how the mental health field is one of the institutions that is part of the colonized culture that we live in and plays a role in kind of upholding those systems of oppression.

17:00[SPEAKER_02]: absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, oh, there's so much to say about it. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do say it in my book, you know, we won't have the time on the podcast. [SPEAKER_02]: And everything, but yes, the systems we live within, [SPEAKER_02]: that we have embodied from our ancestors. [SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't matter if there are press of ancestors or oppressed ancestors, we ancestors, we have embodied these systems based on extraction, dehumanization, consumerism, [SPEAKER_02]: Capitalism, greed, expansionism.

17:42[SPEAKER_02]: There's such a long history, a preparation of culture, a preparation land, resources, genocides. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's just so much to it. [SPEAKER_02]: And the field of psychology, I have to say, is part of those institutions. [SPEAKER_02]: And let us not forget that when psychotherapy came [SPEAKER_02]: realm, right in the Victorian age with Freud and Piersian age, there was one goal for psychotherapy, and that is to get citizens back to work, to be citizens that could work in the factories and maintain the capitalistic.

18:26[SPEAKER_02]: paradigm. [SPEAKER_02]: So without aiming our history in that, it remains underground, but it still acts itself out. [SPEAKER_02]: We are still working hard to get people back into a society or regulated enough as we might say nowadays to be able to be in a society that continues to maintain harm. [SPEAKER_01]: to be a productive, productive member of society, producing. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Producing. [SPEAKER_01]: That can be sold.

18:59[SPEAKER_02]: That's producing something that can be sold, and making money so that you can buy it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And I, you know, I also, who looked at the structural dissociation model I worked with in it for years. [SPEAKER_02]: I do believe it's a helpful map. [SPEAKER_02]: in helping people resolve trauma and fragmentation. [SPEAKER_02]: But I really think we need to expand that understanding to see that we all are working from animal defenses based on our transgenerational trauma and not just the people who have survived the trauma, but the people who have perpetrated the trauma that are fight defenses.

19:42[SPEAKER_02]: lead us to maintain a system of dominance so much so that we are complicit, willing, and complicit in our silence as [SPEAKER_02]: as immigrants are pushed into cages so that they don't replace us. [SPEAKER_02]: That's part of it, right? [SPEAKER_02]: It's that the fight, right, the the the freeze defense that keeps those of us who want to take action frozen because what will happen to us? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the need to attach or the, you know, the flight aspects of addiction, we are addicted to Amazon.

20:26[SPEAKER_02]: We are addicted to our phones, we are addicted to shopping online. [SPEAKER_02]: We are addicted, you know, to that consumerism. [SPEAKER_02]: And I quit as enough enough. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we're at, I believe it's not even a thought. [SPEAKER_02]: I believe I trust this into the side, trust those. [SPEAKER_02]: in the environmental fields and the regeneration fields and the climate justice fields that say we are at existential crisis point where at a poly crisis point and that means that we have so many different crises that are the result of living centuries from an extractive model.

21:06[SPEAKER_02]: which is what call colonization is based on imperialism, this based on settler logic, is based on consumerism and capitalism. [SPEAKER_02]: So we have all these crises, we have a crisis of democracy, we have a crisis, a galotically, we have an economic crisis that's global now, we have wars, we always have wars but there are a lot more and the war is different somehow these days because it's [SPEAKER_02]: we are at these crises of even identity.

21:46[SPEAKER_02]: In many sense, it's hard to know who we are because we've been told so many different things about who we should be and who we should be if we're lining in certain directions. [SPEAKER_02]: So these crises have pushed us to this existential point. [SPEAKER_02]: Where we know, even if we're denying it, and that falls into structural dissociation, too. [SPEAKER_02]: one and us that could deny anything that's happening in order to go out with daily life.

22:13[SPEAKER_02]: Even if we try to deny the fact that climate change is real or global warming is happening, we see the climate catastrophes, whether patterns, the destruction of farmlands, the drought, the floods, all of that, you know. [SPEAKER_02]: So, I hope, and I passion. [SPEAKER_02]: is that and I had mantra is looking back to the pandemic and how quick things changed when humans did something different. [SPEAKER_02]: And my model was based on the question, what if we all chose to change in time that rather than having changed put upon us that we begin to see what our [SPEAKER_02]: that change or great transformation is part of human development and that we have to let go of who we know ourselves to be in order to become who we're meant to be.

23:22[SPEAKER_02]: And this is letting go of privilege as a white person, European person, wealthy person, letting go of privilege. [SPEAKER_02]: So we share what we have. [SPEAKER_02]: letting go of engraving the loss of animals and wildlife and habitats. [SPEAKER_02]: We have to have that engraving process. [SPEAKER_02]: This is about letting go of the idea that we are individuals healing because we are collective that needs to be healed. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so there's a lot of letting go that we need to do in order to transform to a place where we can regenerate as humanity and help the world regenerate.

24:01[SPEAKER_02]: But that's what I'm working so hard. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not working so hard anymore actually, but that's what that's what that's what my passion drives me to do these days is to help inspire people that they can make a difference in their communities. [SPEAKER_02]: and in doing so, begin to heal some of the transgenerational trauma they carry for their ancestry. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you've named something that I've been searching for someone to name, which is like you know I mean two things one is this is the way I look at life I feel like no baby comes out of the womb wanting to hurt another person you know so basically the violence that we do is our fight response.

24:56[SPEAKER_01]: you know, whoever is doing it, whether it's someone who has more power and they're using it to abuse someone with less power or whatever it is, like it's always coming from, it's a reaction. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not our true nature, you know, I don't just believe that some people are just violent and that's how some people are. [SPEAKER_01]: So with that, whenever we're harming other people, we're kind of [SPEAKER_01]: And when we are trying to connect with our ancestors, they you said like whether they're oppressed or they were oppressors.

25:36[SPEAKER_01]: And so many of our ancestors were both. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like wife may have been oppressed and husband was oppressor and the wife contributed to oppression by her her benefiting from husband's actions and but yet she didn't really have free choice herself and husband is responding to [SPEAKER_01]: his legacy of trauma. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't say that to excuse anyone's behavior, but I think it really buddies the waters when we try to connect with our ancestors and then we realize some of them were people and I've had this myself.

26:18[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to connect with them. [SPEAKER_02]: Why are you that a lot? [SPEAKER_01]: They did things that, you know, don't align with my values that are very opposed to my values, [SPEAKER_01]: but if I don't heal the parts of me that are holding those oppressor energies, then it's still there and I'm still giving it. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, I'm still operating from that place too. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's, um, one, yeah, a lot of people were saying, well, that wasn't me.

26:53[SPEAKER_02]: That's not me, you know, that I don't believe that I believe in equality, I believe in racial equality and gender equality and all that. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's wonderful that they believe in that. [SPEAKER_02]: from a healing perspective. [SPEAKER_02]: So again, I bring in a lot of different trauma maps or belief systems worldviews. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I've been fortunate [SPEAKER_02]: be a student of different indigenous teachers along the way in the last 30 years.

27:31[SPEAKER_02]: For those cultures who still hold a reverent relationship with their ancestors, who understand that their ancestors are just a spiritual connection, you know, a spiritual extension. [SPEAKER_02]: of human beings honor, right, that there's communion with the ancestors, there's a relationship with the ancestors, there's not the belief that we have in our Eurocentric culture that when you [SPEAKER_02]: in, say, Afrocentric culture, different Native American cultures.

28:10[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, every people is its own entity, movie systems. [SPEAKER_02]: We can't count them all together. [SPEAKER_02]: But for those who hold that [SPEAKER_02]: that when something heals inside the person don't live in person, it not only heals forward, which we understand through psychotherapy, we work toward that, we change our system, our systems, and family systems, so that they change for future generations. [SPEAKER_02]: But that healing also goes back to the ancestors.

28:50[SPEAKER_02]: So it then becomes a personal and collective responsibility to heal something that we're carrying for our ancestral wine, so that we can heal the ancestors behind us, and ensure that our future generations don't carry the same patterns. [SPEAKER_02]: That we see, you know, we see, if you do a geneogram, you see, [SPEAKER_02]: popping up into your family tree hell, like as these of depression or violence or a loss, you know, grief and loss, they keep popping up in the family tree.

29:26[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same kind of idea. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not healed. [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to surface in generations to come. [SPEAKER_02]: And we are those generations. [SPEAKER_02]: That came. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So I would say to the people, a lot of our clients don't want to, they're afraid to return to their ancestral past, also because they might have trauma and family that came through. [SPEAKER_02]: They can't find a benevolent connection to their family system.

30:00[SPEAKER_02]: So in the beginning, that's what we start to invite in. [SPEAKER_02]: We invite an ancestor that has our best healing in mind. [SPEAKER_02]: Our best, the best intention for our own healing to come through. [SPEAKER_02]: And again, from an ancestral perspective, ancestors want to be a part of the living. [SPEAKER_02]: They want to be advisors to the living. [SPEAKER_02]: Except that they cannot come in unless they're invited. [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes when we start to do this work of working with our ancestors, the fleckjates open and we get overwhelmed because there's so much.

30:34[SPEAKER_02]: There's a good, there's a not good, there's the oppression, there's the extraction, there's the extraction. [SPEAKER_02]: slave owners, you know, all of that comes flooding in and that's overwhelming to the person. [SPEAKER_02]: And so we want to be able to bite size and manage within an ever widening window of tolerance. [SPEAKER_02]: So we start with those ancestors one or two that have the best interest of our own healing in mind.

31:01[SPEAKER_02]: And then we build from there, you know, as we grow stronger or resilient, we're then able to address more of the oppressor transgenerational trauma that we carry as well. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's always a way to invite them. [SPEAKER_02]: you know, by sizing the manageable container. [SPEAKER_01]: That's really helpful. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really hopeful. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, well, you know, I'm just thinking like, how, when you think about, well, there are a lot of things that are coming in my mind.

31:33[SPEAKER_01]: So one thing is when I work with people and when I am on my own, doing my own healing work, too, [SPEAKER_01]: why whoever was doing what they were doing within the context of what was going on at the time like. [SPEAKER_01]: So when you said, if there is an oppressor, it's like there's nobody who's not going to have [SPEAKER_01]: ancestors. [SPEAKER_01]: If you start from the year 1900, any time in the 20th century people were living in war, poverty, you know, oppression, posts of a war, United States, women's rights were very few.

32:23[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, even if you were from an affluent family, you know, your grandfather may have been abusive to your grandmother, you know, or great grandparents, it's just... [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many ways that we can perpetrate oppression and people act out what is in their history. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know their home. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not I don't think because they want to know, you know, this becomes unconscious [SPEAKER_02]: that they just don't question with them.

33:07[SPEAKER_02]: This is how we do things. [SPEAKER_02]: This is how we have always done things. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And in the reach generation process, the six phase framework that I created the second, the first phase is commitment. [SPEAKER_02]: We actually are looking for a regenerative spark because I do believe that everyone similar to you with infant, you know. [SPEAKER_02]: I do believe everyone no matter our age has within us a regenerative wish.

33:41[SPEAKER_02]: We do want what's best for our future generations. [SPEAKER_02]: We have different ideas of what that looks like, but we do want what's best for our future generations. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's about tracking for that, making connection with that, and helping people to recognize what they do want to commit to, but they don't know how to do it, or they think it's too big for one person, or they don't want to stand out in their community, because they're shy about it.

34:14[SPEAKER_02]: something, you know, um, well, that's refusing to use plastics anymore or whatever it is, right? [SPEAKER_02]: There's some kind of commitment that they want to do for the future, oh, some things blocking their capacity to be able to make that commitment. [SPEAKER_02]: The second phase is the deconstruction phase where we go in with mindfulness and ask what I call it more deepening questions that are designed in curiosity, but they're designed to actually amplify uncertainty.

34:45[SPEAKER_02]: because now people have a wider window of tolerance. [SPEAKER_02]: They can be challenged a little more. [SPEAKER_02]: And the healing that needs to happen on a cultural level and just human to human level because of some of the so much culture and racial harm and trauma. [SPEAKER_02]: We need to be able to widen that window of tolerance to be able to hold larger conversations for repair. [SPEAKER_02]: So these questions, these mindfulness questions, are us about how do we study the organization of experience, which is important more about what begins to happen inside when I don't know the answer for something.

35:25[SPEAKER_02]: but I'd ask the question, you know, and not a conversational question but a question that is invoked through mindfulness so that people can really be with the your household angst or the fear or whatever comes up in response to those questions. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not asking these questions that [SPEAKER_02]: and hopelessness that we can actually make change together on this planet. [SPEAKER_02]: So, if someone has the commitment to, let's say they're really working on not being consumers.

36:08[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they have a shopping addiction. [SPEAKER_02]: They have a addiction to getting everything from Amazon. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a click, what is it comes from next day? [SPEAKER_02]: I want this, it comes the next day. [SPEAKER_02]: And Amazon, it with their trucks and their airplanes and their buses and they're, you know, are also part of what's culpable in just trying to reinforce, right? [SPEAKER_02]: So it's firing our plan.

36:31[SPEAKER_01]: So it's called Amazon. [SPEAKER_01]: I, for the rain forest is exactly like crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that something, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need an Amazon rainforest, just so you don't need an oxygen. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll sell you oxygen. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll sell you oxygen tanks. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: So just if that's the frame of one of those deepening questions might be in a state of mindfulness when they're either really able to track and receive, not just think the answer.

37:08[SPEAKER_02]: then might be something like, why do you consume more than you need? [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you consume more than you need? [SPEAKER_02]: No. [SPEAKER_02]: So again, and I'm not looking for the answer. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not looking well because of the fup of a, I'm looking for people to kind of hit a moment where they're like, oh, I do, or oh, you can't even imagine a life and not consuming. [SPEAKER_02]: And then we might do a little ancestral research, as homework or something around how their ancestors through vibraphy little.

37:40[SPEAKER_02]: Because it wasn't too long ago. [SPEAKER_02]: That. [SPEAKER_02]: our great grandparents, perhaps even had a couple of dresses, maybe two suits, maybe a few pairs of shirts, you know, shirt, couple shirts and a pair of shoes and a pair of shirts, shoes. [SPEAKER_02]: And also, we've gone from not needing [SPEAKER_02]: to feeling like we need so much, so let's just a, you know, a little example of a deepening question if it's about the consumerism.

38:15[SPEAKER_02]: It's about oppression, racism, and there's others. [SPEAKER_01]: That's very interesting and I'm thrilled that you're doing this. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited about your book, which anyone who's listening to this will be able to pre-order your book when this comes out. [SPEAKER_02]: Great, great, because it's as I'm learning, it's all about the pre-orders. [SPEAKER_02]: It's all about the number. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's all about the numbers.

38:47[SPEAKER_01]: That's a Western paradigm, but... [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not not possible. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's right. [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is not polarities. [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, it's nuanced. [SPEAKER_01]: But your book is called the regeneration process, a revolutionary method for uprooting ancestral trauma and embracing uncertainty and cultivating collective liberation. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a copy of it?

39:20[SPEAKER_02]: I do. [SPEAKER_02]: I have a advanced reader copy which just came last week. [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be back in heart. [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be out in heart back, heart cover, and also Kinsel on also 25th. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm organizing my book tour right now. [SPEAKER_02]: So that'll be on my social platforms. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're on our newsletter, you'll get [SPEAKER_02]: And the decisions do that. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you do want to host, I will come anywhere, let me say this to people, I will come anywhere and speak to everyone, I mean speak to you.

39:57[SPEAKER_02]: So invite me, I'll come. [SPEAKER_02]: So let's, so we can change the world together, because it will take most of us to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's right. [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that we all can help with and we all have a part to play. [SPEAKER_01]: And so Amy, where will people find you? [SPEAKER_01]: What's your website? [SPEAKER_02]: The website is changed in a regional, reach underationsinstitute.org.

40:31[SPEAKER_02]: And on there, you'll see our mission statement. [SPEAKER_02]: You'll see, you'll read a little more about the regeneration process. [SPEAKER_02]: You'll read a little more about ancestral regeneration. [SPEAKER_02]: Our programs are in person. [SPEAKER_02]: Can I say that? [SPEAKER_02]: Because there was a trend during the pandemic, which was good for the planet, which meant we all went inside. [SPEAKER_02]: but that changed how we do therapy, that changed how we do relationship, that's how we change everything.

41:06[SPEAKER_02]: And so a lot of our best refer now to take their trainings and workshops online. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to suggest that that is although convenient, it's part of a degenerative pattern that we're pulling our being pulled into a maintaining, [SPEAKER_02]: where we're not actually a face-to-face body to body in community with each other anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm advocating for coming back into community towards two workshops and retreats.

41:40[SPEAKER_02]: And so on the website, you can see the different workshops and retreats to options. [SPEAKER_02]: So you can learn this method not as a training in different modules, but in a seven-day retreat, you can experience it, and it workshops and retreats, and then you can take it as your own in spread. [SPEAKER_02]: spread it so we create more regenerative circles around the world and people who are engaged in climate repair and racial repair.

42:12[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah, I love it. [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll be sure to put a link to the Transgenerational Regeneration Institute on the show notes and people can find your trainings and retreats and workshops and your book and it's all going to be amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for the opportunity. [SPEAKER_02]: It's great to reconnect with you, Laura. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's so great for me too, and I'm so happy to know what you're doing and I'll definitely be trying to see you in person for one of those events too.

42:56[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much for being my guest on therapy chat today. [SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome. [SPEAKER_00]: Hi. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat with your host, Laura Reagan, LCSWC.