518: Harmonic Brain Healing with Cynthia Schwartzberg

0:00[SPEAKER_00]: Therapy Chat Podcast Episode 518 This is the Therapy Chat Podcast with Laura Regan, LCSWC. [SPEAKER_00]: The information shared in this podcast is not a substitute for seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. [SPEAKER_00]: And now, here's your host, Laura Regan, LCSWC. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, welcome back to Therapy Chat. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Laura Reagan, and today I'm excited to be bringing you a conversation with Cynthia Schwartzberg.

0:53[SPEAKER_01]: Cynthia Schwartzberg is a psychotherapist trainer and speaker with a passion for making deep healing, practical, experiential and human. [SPEAKER_01]: She's the author of the Curious Voyage to Authenticity, a rule-breaking guide for personal growth, and she's the creator of harmonic brain healing. [SPEAKER_01]: An integrative approach, the blend's focused attention, imagery, and nervous system support to help people shift stuck patterns, and move toward a more grounded connected life.

1:21[SPEAKER_01]: Cynthia leads brain-spotting trainings for clinicians with CE credits and offers programs for both [SPEAKER_01]: And she was one of my first brainspotting trainers. [SPEAKER_01]: She was my phase two trainer with Christine Rank. [SPEAKER_01]: And Cynthia is someone who I really admire. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone who is very interesting and curious and authentic. [SPEAKER_01]: So I loved our conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope that you will find some inspiration in it as well.

1:56[SPEAKER_01]: And as always, thank you for listening to Therapy Chat. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, welcome back to Therapy Chat. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Laura Reagan, and today, I'm so happy to be speaking with Cynthia Schwartzberg. [SPEAKER_01]: Cynthia, thank you so much for being my guest on Therapy Chat today. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your welcome, it's really an honor. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very thrilled to be talking with you Cynthia, and I'd like to ask you to start off by telling our listeners a little more about who you are and what you do.

2:25[SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: I am a traditionally trained as a social worker but throughout my career I've been working with body mind spirit so I was never, well not, the never is not the right way to say but I have always been connected to the value and the importance of working holistically with a person. [SPEAKER_02]: So I started out in something called core energetics, which is working with energy and consciousness, and that was prior to somatic experience work, so came down from some of the fathers of that and then.

3:06[SPEAKER_02]: Through that, I started to work with EMDR because in coronergetics, we look at the developmental traumas that happen in the body and give ways to support the system to sort of slow out, show us, say, from, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So we work with the eyes because the eyes get frozen in that frozen moments of time. [SPEAKER_02]: And EMDR was like moving the eyes. [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, wow, this is fascinating. [SPEAKER_02]: So I did EMDR integrated it with core energetics.

3:39[SPEAKER_02]: And along the way, [SPEAKER_02]: I was getting my Andrea credits. [SPEAKER_02]: So I went to Cape Cod and I always say that I loved it because you go to the conference in the morning into the beach and the afternoon. [SPEAKER_02]: So that was great. [SPEAKER_02]: And I met Dr. David Grant. [SPEAKER_02]: And at that time, he was doing something called natural flow, which was a way of working with a slower movements with EMDR, [SPEAKER_02]: And he was also working with actors in and out of performance.

4:13[SPEAKER_02]: And so I met him and then sadly for myself, my supervisor at the time passed away. [SPEAKER_02]: So this was back in 2000. [SPEAKER_02]: And I called up David Grant and I said, I need or 2001, guess the beginning of the year. [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, I need a supervisor. [SPEAKER_02]: because I always feel, and this is where I really want to share, that if I'm doing work, I need to be involved and engaged with some eyes supporting the work that I'm doing with people, and also I love to learn from the inside out and the outside in, and that's how I grew to working with David and then eventually brainstorming.

4:52[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: I could ask you a million questions just from that, but I'll try to stay focused. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I met you as through brainspotting. [SPEAKER_01]: You were my trainer and I think was in level two, phase two. [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember just how interesting I found you to be as a trainer like the core energetics piece makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know about that background, but the way you [SPEAKER_01]: really stood out to me because so often when we go through trainings, it can be really heavy and not necessarily brain-spotting because that's not how brain-spotting is, but when you're trying to convey a lot of, you know, neuro-science information and all that, but then you brought your presence as a clinician and really beautifully in the demos and I think that really spoke to me [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.

5:52[SPEAKER_01]: So, Mattik Lee and Energy, and all of that, thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, and what we want to talk about today is this discovery that you've made, this development that you've made through your exploration and learning over the years, which is harmonic brain healing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So, I did want to share with everybody because it is a tool. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a tool that's so useful. [SPEAKER_02]: for many therapists, and what it is is it's an integration of working with brainspotting with counting and revisiting.

6:31[SPEAKER_02]: So what happened was one day I was working with a parent whose child had overdosed, and they're stuck with this horrific moment in time of seeing their child [SPEAKER_02]: with a lot of guilt. [SPEAKER_02]: And I had at that time, in my personal life, learned something called revisiting, which was where I imagined myself in a moment in time, because I had shared my life story of parenting with a reverend that I was studying with, and he gave me this option to imagine that moment.

7:10[SPEAKER_02]: And in that moment, change the way I relate to the ending of it. [SPEAKER_02]: So as if that was a movie, how would you like to live with it going forward different? [SPEAKER_02]: So for about two months, I kept on saying, I did the best I could at the time. [SPEAKER_02]: So every time I'd see myself when it was a moment in my car, I'd just kept on saying this phrase over and over again. [SPEAKER_02]: And after about two months, I can reconnect it with my family member.

7:35[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the trajectory of our relationship changed ever since. [SPEAKER_02]: Then, so I had already learned revisiting and I also learned counting from Ricky Greenwald's group from somebody here local in town and I found it fascinating but I was doing brainstorming already and so here I was in a session and sometimes you're in a session and you feel like so helpless and powerless and like this, what can I possibly do? [SPEAKER_02]: And that's when our creativity [SPEAKER_02]: because we want to give the best.

8:14[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're also taught like just wait and see what happens. [SPEAKER_02]: But we want to give the best to our clients and some people need some input versus silence. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm brainspotting. [SPEAKER_01]: We learn to follow the tale of a comment and we don't necessarily intervene. [SPEAKER_01]: Even if we don't know what to do or we're feeling that overwhelm in that moment we're like just trust the process. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, sometimes we do need to.

8:43[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because this person can't do something. [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes clients are stuck with this thing, you know, over and over again, and it's a loop that they can't shift. [SPEAKER_02]: So in that moment, I said to this person, something like this, I don't this was years ago. [SPEAKER_02]: I said, if this was like a mood, if, well, I'd probably didn't say if this was like a movie, but if this image that you're having right now feels like a mood like a something that's stuck, like a movie that gets stuck, probably expanded the way I said it, you know.

9:19[SPEAKER_02]: What would you like to live with differently? [SPEAKER_02]: How would you like a was a preferred way of being with all of that? [SPEAKER_02]: Then I did the process of having them imagine that. [SPEAKER_02]: So I did what I had done for the two months. [SPEAKER_02]: I did it more in the split second on a brain spot with this person. [SPEAKER_02]: But I also integrated the counting. [SPEAKER_02]: because when your client is in deep process, but I'm offering a rhythmic sound, it's very much like indigenous people use drumming circles or other like, you know, note beats, things with beats, or they use dance to support the body's process, [SPEAKER_02]: of healing.

10:08[SPEAKER_02]: So here I was integrating all of these things together in the moment and the person was able to shift the image. [SPEAKER_02]: Because what I did, that's different than a lot of trauma therapy is we did, it wasn't like exposure. [SPEAKER_02]: We did not keep going back to that moment. [SPEAKER_02]: Every time the client shared something, we brought that something that was different, [SPEAKER_02]: to the point that they were looking.

10:35[SPEAKER_02]: And I've used this and trained people with brainspotting, without brainspotting, I didn't want to come in and pilot study to see if people could understand. [SPEAKER_02]: And anybody that's a highly attuned therapist or is somewhat somatically based, it has been really, it's been easy for them to pick it up. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like a new way of doing therapy, but it's a tool that has helped and starting to share it with my consultation groups and starting to share it with other colleagues.

11:07[SPEAKER_02]: It helps across many, many, many moments. [SPEAKER_02]: and not only moments in time but flood processes or repetitive patterns and thinking. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so one thing that I'm thinking about, this is happening a lot now, and I'm wondering if you're seeing this, but people are going and doing these psychedelic experiences, so they go to Mexico, they go to Peru, they go to, [SPEAKER_01]: Costa Rica and they do this amazing psychedelic journey and then they love it and it's incredible and then they come back and something stuck I mean for some people it's like I've heard people say stuck in a hellscape.

11:49[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard people just looping on one thought, like, I couldn't help them or something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: And just, you know, they're like, but I couldn't help that. [SPEAKER_01]: They just keep coming back to that and they're, it's tormenting them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: This seems like something that could really help people. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you would call it integrating the experience or just getting out of that loop.

12:12[SPEAKER_01]: But either way, it seems like it could help. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I have a new client this week who's been doing that that's coming in for some support and some help and we'll see she's coming into town for an intensive. [SPEAKER_02]: But [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think that and I have worked with people who have gone to Costa Rica and come back it's they're not always stuck in the loop, but there's stuck with something that happened, [SPEAKER_02]: we want to support the system for movement in one form or another.

12:55[SPEAKER_02]: I think that Peter Levine wrote waking the tighter and he talks about going towards something in that way, and towards in a way when you're titrating and in harmonic brain healing, we're looking at something that we're leaving it. [SPEAKER_02]: We're looking at it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like we peek. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't stay there for more than like, oh, seconds. [SPEAKER_02]: And then after the first five seconds, it could be three seconds of somebody can't tolerate five, then the rhythm and the information that starts to move because it gets unstuck starts to replace and then the consciousness has time to reorganize.

13:39[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think this would be a great moment for me to ask you, can you talk about why does a moment get stuck or frozen in time for us in the brain? [SPEAKER_01]: What makes that happen? [SPEAKER_02]: So there is this article I read about stock images. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll try to maybe find it for the [SPEAKER_02]: think of something. [SPEAKER_02]: It's in our memory. [SPEAKER_02]: Our memories connected partially also to a visual cortex.

14:15[SPEAKER_02]: So when I'm remembering something, my eyes will start to replay that. [SPEAKER_02]: They might go like as usual, so my eyes shift. [SPEAKER_02]: They might go to a spot that I was looking at when that first happened. [SPEAKER_02]: or what they will do is they will repeat what they called scan pass that fixation and that movement of that rapid eye movement. [SPEAKER_02]: So in a way, it's like an extra sketch, which was an old toy from years ago, where you turn knobs and you move a line to make a figure.

14:51[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like our eyes are rapidly moving and recreating this scene. [SPEAKER_02]: And our memory recalls that scene, and then I get to have the image there again. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I have the image there again. [SPEAKER_02]: So the idea in the harmonic brain healing is that we're interrupting that repetitive thinking pattern, which goes along with neuroplasticity, like you're redirecting your thoughts. [SPEAKER_02]: Jeffrey Schwartz talks about it in brain lock.

15:24[SPEAKER_02]: like thinking about something outrageously fantastic and wonderful or something different. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, something that they talk about in the trauma world is trauma can create a foreshortened sense of the future, like that idea that people can't see a future, especially childhood trauma. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm thinking of this today because of what today's date is. [SPEAKER_01]: It's an anniversary of a very traumatic event in our country.

15:52[SPEAKER_01]: And when people talk about the problems that we're having in our country [SPEAKER_01]: And they say, you know, the answer is not necessarily the same old thing for me, I can't envision what different could be like like I can't envision it and I wonder if this type of process can open that up because it's like, you know, we're just in this box as you and I were talking about before we started recording and there is so much outside of that box, but we don't it's like we're just.

16:24[SPEAKER_01]: staying in there, you know, we're like, we don't even know what's outside of it. [SPEAKER_01]: We can't imagine it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So just felt like pausing for like just a moment for what you just said about today's date. [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for speaking that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And everybody, I mean, our countries in so many different [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: But when you're stuck in it, then there's, you know, who I don't know trauma builds on trauma.

16:58[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what your thoughts are, but of the day, but one thing that I do bring up in the harmonic brain healing is a process. [SPEAKER_02]: So we can sort of share it now with everybody. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great. [SPEAKER_02]: Is because part of the process has to do with our visual, our imagination, our imaginary visual field. [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you think so I ask invite people like to imagine a chair and imagining yourself standing in front of the chair and notice what it feels like and imagining yourself.

17:31[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know if you wanted me to like take the time to feed you to literally do it now or you want me to describe it, do you want me to do it? [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'll probably be trying to do it while you're describing it either way, so. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, whoever else is out there, I'm just saying, please do not do this while you're driving. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Imagine yourself standing in front of the chair and just noticing what color it is, what it feels like.

17:54[SPEAKER_02]: And so you're connecting physiologically as well as through your court neocortex and visual field. [SPEAKER_02]: And then see what happens if you stand to the right of the chair and then I repeat like the same kinds of directions, imagining like what, does it look any different? [SPEAKER_02]: How does it feel when you look to the right of the chair? [SPEAKER_02]: And then we go to the left is the chair, then I invite people to go above the chair to go under the chair.

18:21[SPEAKER_02]: But the other day when I was doing this was a client, I said, they were stuck with some answer. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll put that thought. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's write out that thought and imagine writing out that thought and putting it on the chair. [SPEAKER_02]: And they do this process. [SPEAKER_02]: And what this process does is it helps us begin to see that maybe I can look at it from a different side. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I can look at it from a different angle.

18:45[SPEAKER_02]: And that sometimes supports people to get on the stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: So I teach that as an experiential to open up our minds and it's fascinating at trainings because some people will go, well, my chair was on the floor, so I couldn't get below it. [SPEAKER_02]: Other people say, I moved to the floor and I went below it. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: So it just kind of is very a great playful way of beginning to open up to possibility, just that simple thing like you said about moving the floor, that's a that's being out of the box, right.

19:18[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying. [SPEAKER_02]: No, of course, you know, and in another moment, I'd be glad to support you and help you with that stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I wasn't expecting you to do that right now. [SPEAKER_01]: I just had to say, because it was on my mind, and people who are listening, we're recording this on January 6. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I'm referring to. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

19:43[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I mean. [SPEAKER_02]: You're not. [SPEAKER_02]: You're for sure. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I just offer anybody as a therapist, there's a if you have a client with a stuck spot. [SPEAKER_02]: You can do that. [SPEAKER_02]: Try to do that process with them. [SPEAKER_02]: See if it helps them, but it helped my clients start to wiggle something that was very concrete. [SPEAKER_01]: right, something can get so fixed and we just keep going back to it and when that's happening it doesn't seem like there's anything else possible right.

20:13[SPEAKER_02]: So in the harmonic brain healing what we often will ask is could you imagine living with this differently and it like how would you not click but how would you like to imagine living with this differently? [SPEAKER_02]: And we have to work a little bit with that because it is so hard for some people, like, so you want to just do, like, the very next best step, like, and then put some people could say, well, if I really could, like, [SPEAKER_02]: body sensation sets through the process movement happens.

20:57[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm thinking about like things that people are holding or carrying that feel really unbearable. [SPEAKER_01]: That, you know, it's like how, how could, how would you like to imagine living with this differently? [SPEAKER_01]: I, I think feels like, I don't know why I'm getting to your end. [SPEAKER_01]: But it feels like it would be about sort of moving through or moving [SPEAKER_01]: aside a feeling of I don't want this to be true.

21:26[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like that it feels in my understanding of trauma and trauma responses it feels like the freeze. [SPEAKER_01]: So you, I mean you have to do some work like you're in shock. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: I cry a lot, don't worry about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Just talking, you know, there's, so then you teach your client about the soft pain and the heart pain and the, the real guilt and what, what can I do and like for myself when I was first learning the revisioning I just.

21:55[SPEAKER_02]: just starting to live with the idea that I did the best I could with him, you know, was a way of just accepting myself with my, with my personhood, really, you know, situations of being a human. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I have strengths of weaknesses. [SPEAKER_02]: and I even was going back to the same time in my life, the other day with somebody who lived through it with me at the time, and they said, they had a really great way of working with me.

22:24[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll share this with you. [SPEAKER_02]: They said, so if I was like Anna Freud, and I asked you this, like, what do you regret about this or what could you, what could be different in the more? [SPEAKER_02]: They kept me a little bit in the neocortex, but it really helped me realize that I don't know that I could have done anything different with all the states that were at hand with just who I am. [SPEAKER_02]: And that really helped me accept my heart had good intention, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: I might have good intentions for you, but it may not land well.

23:10[SPEAKER_02]: So I need to receive that it didn't land well, right? [SPEAKER_02]: The impact was not great. [SPEAKER_02]: Then I have then that internal world of like, am I going to feel guilty about that? [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to get mad at you because you didn't accept my intention or am I going to live with my deep regret and sorrows that it didn't land well? [SPEAKER_02]: And we're both here and let's see how it can repair, which is a way of then moving forward in the relationship, right?

23:39[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes we hurt people and we cause harm and we can't repair. [SPEAKER_01]: And then how can we live with that? [SPEAKER_01]: We still have to live with that. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I think, you know, I want to make this about our country again for a second. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that, you know, a lot of times that prevents us from repairing is that we can't or from trying to repair or from healing is that we can't [SPEAKER_01]: face that we couldn't that we did something that challenges the way we view ourselves as a good person, you know, and it's like how do you keep going?

24:14[SPEAKER_01]: I think these are like existential questions too. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there is a question like so I lead this class on the book's The Curious Voyage. [SPEAKER_02]: I asked the question is it that you can't or that you won't? [SPEAKER_02]: So won't I because of my pride? [SPEAKER_02]: Or like, and I think that that's what adds to the divisiveness and like inside, whichever sign or I won't because I'm too scared. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a whole other won't and then I may be need help.

24:44[SPEAKER_02]: All right, or I can't because I can't do it alone is very different than I can't because I won't because of my pride or my fear, like I just want not willing to consider something different, so I have to stay dug in right here right because it's gotten my way or the highway. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you for sharing also about your own experience that helped you to develop harmonic brain healing. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it would be really valuable if you could talk a little bit about what rhythm does in healing.

25:22[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned when we were talking before, how that fits in and then also about the counting, how that the counting could be rhythmic, I guess, too, but how [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I think of the counting as rhythm. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So as the therapist, why somebody's looking in a certain direction, I might be counting either up to five or down to one is quite up to the client. [SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm going five, four, three, two, one.

25:51[SPEAKER_02]: and then redirecting the client to look someplace else. [SPEAKER_02]: They're here in my voice in the room. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's an anchor to the here and now. [SPEAKER_02]: We're having, we have some working relationship. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's some supportive containing in that space. [SPEAKER_02]: And the methodical rhythm supports the nervous system, because when we're traumatized, our nervous system is going into fight fight or freeze, but it's very, there's an erratic aspect.

26:25[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right. [SPEAKER_02]: So if this rhythm, it's a solid beat. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like a heart beat. [SPEAKER_02]: Did you ever listen to like, when I used to do like the breath work, [SPEAKER_02]: I play this audio that had like the heart beat like kind of like, you know, like that womb heart, yeah, sound. [SPEAKER_02]: So it supports the deep, you know, brain, and it's supporting the nervous system, and it's supporting present time.

26:54[SPEAKER_02]: So we're catching a lot in one action. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and you also mentioned when we were talking before rhythm is what indigenous people's years and have used for healing for time. [SPEAKER_02]: If you think about drumming, it's gotten more and more popular. [SPEAKER_02]: It was shamanic journeys, used drum, the drumming circles, a lot of like the treatment centers out there [SPEAKER_02]: there's lots of drumming groups and it brings community together and people heal many if is a healthy community, people heal in community and sometimes that the the trauma was the community.

27:38[SPEAKER_02]: But Robert scare mentions it also in, I think it's in the eight keys book that he has eight keys to brain body balance and in the back chapter he talks about key elements that are used for healing. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it supports our brain and body. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've heard about drumming and rhythm as a way to sort of like, I think, you know, I'm thinking about it as like reorienting to the primordial pulse of life, you know?

28:16[SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, that the system is having a rhythm when we're traumatized, but it's very erratic and you think about like heart rate variability, you know, it's like it's all over the place. [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's too slow, you know, and it's it's not like it's dancing responsive to a pulse of life. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And years ago, somebody told me there is only light and sound.

28:41[SPEAKER_02]: So we're working with the sound and we're working with the relational connection with the voice. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, one more thing I want to ask you about this before we wrap up is, how does harmonic brain healing? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because this tool you're telling us, [SPEAKER_01]: People don't have to be trained in brainspotting to get trained in harmonic healing, and it's a tool that therapists can use in their work, even if they're not trained brainspotters.

29:11[SPEAKER_01]: So how does it work with memory reconciliation? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I was getting ready to present a trauma conference in Spain, and I came across Bruce Eckert's book on unlocking the emotional brain. [SPEAKER_02]: And in there, he talks about memory reconciliation and one of the things that he [SPEAKER_02]: loved about it was he talks about a prediction error. [SPEAKER_02]: So right, before you and I were talking about that stop thing.

29:42[SPEAKER_02]: So when you're stuck, you don't really have an idea about anything other than the stuck, like what we hit with. [SPEAKER_02]: So if I say to you, could you imagine the possibility or what would it be like to maybe not be stuck? [SPEAKER_02]: That's a little surprised to your brain [SPEAKER_02]: So a prediction era is when we introduce something that's not expected, because our brain is busy screening out so much stimuli that we will often depend upon what was familiar or what we know to plan our actions and going forward, or we expect things to be the same way.

30:29[SPEAKER_02]: But nothing is certain and nothing is really over the same. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's this, somebody said to me recently at a traineeship, so is that like when you're proofreading, you don't notice that a word is built incorrectly? [SPEAKER_02]: So that sounds like it could be because I remember in advertising, we used to have to, this was when print was out, and that was in the advertising PR works when reading existed. [SPEAKER_02]: We would read backwards one word at a time to make sure that the copy was correct before we go to print.

31:02[SPEAKER_02]: And then the guerrilla on the basketball court, did you ever see there's a YouTube video where they're showing you, and they ask you, do you see anything different? [SPEAKER_02]: But you don't see anything different because you expect basketball players on the basketball court. [SPEAKER_02]: But there's a gorilla that's on the court. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's these unexpected things that we don't expect to happen. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's when we have this prediction error, it opens up our brain to be more malleable for new to reorganize and at first we get very disordinated [SPEAKER_02]: to be in a more...

31:49[SPEAKER_02]: more in alignment and more flowing to our system. [SPEAKER_02]: So we develop new learning. [SPEAKER_02]: And when we replace the old image with something new, that supports the new learning to go forward and to keep us on stock. [SPEAKER_02]: So at the training, I do have a chart comparing the reconciliation, because there's so much of that process that happens during reconciliation, that really matches what we're doing in harmonic brain healing.

32:18[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, so what's the length of time? [SPEAKER_01]: You're in a session with someone and you decide to bring in harmonic brain healing. [SPEAKER_01]: What length of time would you spend with that intervention? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for some people that I've had a regular working relationship with and work, we spent a good amount of time processing and talking and maybe they had the brain's body perspective. [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they had headphones on their listening to alternate stimuli, but we haven't [SPEAKER_02]: And we're kind of framing, but we haven't gotten to what that nugget is that we're going to work with.

32:53[SPEAKER_02]: I might say, you know, with the time that we have left, do you want to do the counting things? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't call it to a client and they'll say, yes, and like just like five minutes can unlock a lot, but that's already that we've spent, you know, 30 minutes, but I have seen amazing shift and change in 30 minutes. [SPEAKER_02]: that people feel like, I don't know what that was. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what just happened, but I don't feel that way anymore.

33:21[SPEAKER_02]: And they just, they, it moves. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, when there's more complication like I was working with somebody on fear of flying in a demo, [SPEAKER_02]: And there wasn't a lot of complication and like after that demo, she like was on the phone making plans to and traveled and wrote me and it was great success somebody else she was still planning the trip, but we did a couple of sessions to clear out. [SPEAKER_02]: Because sometimes there's trauma around the moment in time that something happened, it's not just something that happened, but it's like the pieces that are around that moment.

34:02[SPEAKER_02]: So there's more to clear through. [SPEAKER_02]: But I did work with somebody recently and they just looked at it mean they go, that was really fast. [SPEAKER_02]: And I go, I know it's weird, it's amazing. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's a constantly surprised at the miracle of that. [SPEAKER_02]: And I had my own session the other day. [SPEAKER_02]: And I just like there's like no, no screen of what I was that I had before. [SPEAKER_02]: It just, it's like, got edited out and re-written, you know, like the movie.

34:37[SPEAKER_02]: We changed the ending. [SPEAKER_02]: That's very beginning. [SPEAKER_02]: I used to call it movie spotting. [SPEAKER_02]: But I was what I first heard, yeah, movie spotting. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because there's like a movie that could stop, but now I like it to be harmonic brain healing, because it really integrates the rhythm aspect to the work and it's really bringing harmony into the brain. [SPEAKER_02]: Can I train somebody in it and then their client was musician and they loved the name.

35:05[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have the aspects of it that you know, we don't even see. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's growing and the amazing growing. [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, the first round of training people, somebody did a lot of work with OCD and eating disorders and it was extremely helpful. [SPEAKER_02]: I integrated sometimes with parts work. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just I've used it a lot with grief. [SPEAKER_02]: I've had it used on myself with grief. [SPEAKER_02]: so it's extremely helpful.

35:31[SPEAKER_02]: I know working with people in the, you know, armed forces, police forces, great. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I could say something to your listeners that they might appreciate. [SPEAKER_02]: You can get see you use work, but it's only a days training. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's six point two five credits for it. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great. [SPEAKER_02]: So it used to be four hours, but people really need a couple of demonstrations to get it.

35:55[SPEAKER_02]: So we have two demonstrations in one practicum. [SPEAKER_01]: Working people, find your book, the curious wage, and the workbook, and your trainings. [SPEAKER_01]: Where is that all this? [SPEAKER_02]: So all of it's gathered together on my site, synthesis.com and supplant words, CYN, DHA, SIS.com. [SPEAKER_02]: And the curious voyage class I do rolling actually I do have class the curious voyage to authenticity it's called a rule breaking guide for personal growth so I train well I don't train but it is kind of like a training so you can get up to 12 CE's for it and what we do is we go on the voyage together.

36:40[SPEAKER_02]: and so people can experience it and then integrate it and use the tools that the book is filled with processes and tools that have gathered over like the past 30 plus years. [SPEAKER_02]: So they can use the tools with their clients and I'm just having a ball doing it because I my eyes are like looking in people and they're like wow and eight weeks they've really changed and it's not it was a journey [SPEAKER_01]: So people are welcome to do these classes and experience this with you experience the what's in the curious voyage book with you.

37:14[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and then they can take it into sharing any of the tools with their clients. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, fabulous. [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, [SPEAKER_01]: I am so grateful to you for bringing a sliver of your wisdom to therapy chat today. [SPEAKER_01]: It's been so lovely to talk to you. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: I've been wonderful and I really enjoyed reconnecting to with you. [SPEAKER_02]: So I hope that it helps people and feel free to.

37:40[SPEAKER_02]: I also have free talks regularly on my site. [SPEAKER_02]: And I have lots of freebie like tools for like the attuned therapist or grounding exercises with clients. [SPEAKER_02]: I just came out with one on the authentic therapist. [SPEAKER_02]: So I have little videos and the workbook that goes within. [SPEAKER_02]: It's all available to people. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so generous of you. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be sure to put the link to your website in the show notes and title of your book and all this beautiful stuff.

38:08[SPEAKER_01]: But Cynthia, thank you so much for being my guest on therapy chat today. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening. [SPEAKER_02]: Bye, everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat, with your host, Laura Reagan, LCSWC. [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, please visit Therapy ChatPodcast.com.