Podcast · Business

Zero Click Marketing

by Amanda Natividad · English · Business

Zero Click Marketing is a marketing strategy podcast about content marketing, audience research, and how brands grow when clicks matter less. Hosted by Amanda Natividad, Chief Evangelist at SparkToro and Co-Author of the book, "Zero Click Marketing," the show explores how marketers reach audiences,

New episodes: Weekly
Typical length: 21 min
Latest: 13 Oct 2026
Language: English

Latest episode

13 Oct 2026 · 39 minNew

The Hardest Parts of Zero Click Marketing (Rand Fishkin returns!)

Rand Fishkin (my co-author!) is back on the show for a special episode about our new book, Zero Click Marketing. We talk about what surprised us while recording the audiobook, and some of the Zero Click Marketing ideas that marketers have pushed back on the most. We get especially fired up about attribution and post-purchase surveys and taking stronger positions in your content. Plus, learn how an expert like Rand is learning an entirely new kind of marketing as he builds his gaming company, Snack Bar Studios. In this episode: 00:00 — Why useful advice requires taking a position 03:55 — AI,…

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Earlier episodes 29 most recent

E38 · 6 Oct 2026 · 28 min
The Marketing Skills AI Can’t Give You (with Sarah Stockdale)
Marketing keeps changing. But good marketing? Not so much. Sarah Stockdale, founder and CEO of Growclass, joins me to talk about what still matters as algorithms, AI, attribution, and the platforms change. We talk about what still wins, and one crucial skill you still need today. In this episode: 00:00 Why good marketing was never supposed to be easy 03:30 The fundamentals that still matter 07:15 Why changing user behavior is so hard 15:39 What “direct traffic” is hiding 16:15 When your marketing data is too good to be true 18:51 What still matters in the age of AI 20:09 Skepticism for……
E37 · 29 Sep 2026 · 39 min
How Referral Rock Turns Customer Intel Into a Marketing Strategy (with Josh Ho)
Josh Ho, founder and CEO of ReferralRock, and I chit chat about marketing challenges and opportunities as of late. My fave part of this episode is when Josh explains how ReferralRock turns its existing customer conversations into an always-on source of audience research — using real customer language and anecdotes to shape strategy. (This happens about 15 minutes in!) We also get into why marketers need both audience data and anecdotes, what AI changes about qualitative research, and how the smallest, weirdest details can sometimes become the most memorable parts of a brand. Timestamps 00:00…
E36 · 22 Sep 2026 · 53 min
Why You're Losing to AI and How to Fix It (with Wil Reynolds)
Wil Reynolds joins me to chop it up over what AI is changing — and what it’s revealing — about marketing, expertise, and trust. We talk about using AI without losing your voice, why accountability may matter more than “taste,” and how AI search is making it harder for brands to simply optimize their way into credibility. Wil also explains why he’d rather measure human trust than algorithmic visibility, how an intern exposed gaps in his own 25+ years of SEO experience, and why this moment in AI has rekindled the way he wants to build Seer Interactive. Chapters 00:00 — Human trust vs.…
E35 · 15 Sep 2026 · 37 min
A CEO On Marketing in a Clickless, AI-Driven World (with Chris Savage)
Wistia CEO Chris Savage joins me to talk about how marketing has evolved in recent years, especially now as attribution keeps getting harder. We also dig into building sustainable content programs, finding opportunities in saturated channels, making the case for creative risks, and why some of the ideas that are hardest to green-light are actually the most valuable. Timestamps 00:00 — Why the hardest ideas end up being the most valuable 01:31 — Wistia’s sustainable approach building its podcast 06:38 — Let the audience choose the format 10:19 — Marketing in a zero-click world 14:02 — Massive…
E34 · 8 Sep 2026 · 29 min
The Most Human Marketing Channel Left (with Erica Bonser)
As AI makes it easier to produce more content, podcasting offers something increasingly valuable: unmistakable evidence of a real person behind those ideas. Erica Bonser, co-founder of Fan Club, joins me to talk about what success should actually look like for a new show, and how marketers can turn a podcast into a sustainable engine — without expecting immediate business results. Chapters 00:00 — Why podcasting feels distinctly human in the AI era 00:41 — What fitness brands teach us about identity and marketing 09:53 — Starting a podcast makes you a better communicator 11:34 — What should…
E33 · 1 Sep 2026 · 12 min
As Content Gets Cheap, Credibility Gets Expensive
It’s never been easier to create content — which means simply making content isn’t much of an advantage anymore. Today, I talk about what AI changes about the creator economy, why credibility is becoming more valuable as content gets cheaper, and how marketers should evaluate creator partnerships beyond clicks and impressions. Chapters 00:00 — It has never been easier to create mediocre content 00:45 — How the creator economy has grown up 02:14 — As content gets cheaper, credibility gets more valuable 03:15 — Why creator marketing *is* Zero Click Marketing 04:08 — The prerequisite: authority…
E32 · 25 Aug 2026 · 58 min
What If You Can’t Prove Your Marketing Worked?
What happens when your marketing is clearly doing something — but attribution can’t tell you exactly what? In this conversation with Wistia’s Talking Too Loud, we dig into zero click marketing, branded search, word of mouth, recall, and the growing gap between what marketers can measure and what actually influences people. It’s a conversation about learning to work with evidence instead of expecting perfect proof — and it feels even more relevant now than when we recorded it. This episode was originally published on Talking Too Loud, Wistia's podcast about the brands, products, and marketing…
E31 · 20 Aug 2026 · 11 min
Field Notes: Reddit Citations Drop 80% in ChatGPT (Don't Care)
This is me reacting in real time to news from Promptwatch and Petra Labs that Reddit just lost about 80% of citations in ChatGPT. TL;DR: chasing platform behavior is not a good strategy. Other sources: Axios Semrush Profound Timestamps: 00:00 Reddit citations fell off a cliff. So what? 00:59 Your strategy shouldn’t depend on one platform 01:54 If your audience uses Reddit, Reddit still matters 03:10 ChatGPT citation behavior is wildly unstable 04:26 The boring winner: brand-owned websites 05:32 Build useful homes across the internet 06:36 AI visibility is a benefit of good marketing ZCM…
E30 · 18 Aug 2026 · 11 min
[Replay] The LinkedIn Algorithm Is Basically a Party
LinkedIn’s feed has changed since I first published this episode — but the core idea holds up: the platform is trying to understand what you talk about, who should care, and what deserves distribution. In this refreshed Field Note, I revisit LinkedIn’s retrieval-and-ranking system, clarify what topical consistency actually means, touch on the new “Seems like AI slop” reporting feature, and explain why the best LinkedIn strategy still looks a lot like behaving normally at a party. Timestamps 00:00 — What’s changed since the original episode 01:05 — Retrieval vs. ranking: the “two algorithms”…
E29 · 11 Aug 2026 · 36 min
[Replay] Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin)
AI is new, yet somehow it’s already exhausting. Marketers are under constant pressure to adopt more tools, track more things, rethink their strategies, figure out AI visibility, and generally become smarter about a technology that keeps changing underneath them. So this week, we’re resurfacing a conversation with my co-author Rand Fishkin because it feels even more useful now than when we recorded it. We talk about how to make smart marketing bets when perfect attribution is impossible, what AI visibility can and can’t actually tell you, why “rank tracking” inside LLMs is mostly the wrong…
E28 · 4 Aug 2026 · 13 min
5 Things That Make an Idea Stick
Marketers know how to distribute content. But getting a post, podcast, or report in front of people doesn’t guarantee that its central idea will stick. Today, we dive into the difference between content performance and idea portability — and I offer five qualities that help an idea travel beyond its original container: immediate usefulness, a memorable handle, and oh… guess you’ll have to listen to find out the rest. Timestamps 00:00 — Moving content vs. making ideas portable 02:07 — How the Paul Rudd example traveled 03:18 — Make it useful without the click 07:15 — Find the smallest…
E27 · 28 Jul 2026 · 9 min
Zero Click Marketing for Your Mom
The zero click internet sounds like marketing jargon, but the idea is simple: platforms increasingly give people answers without sending them to the original source. Citing my recent NPR appearance and using Paul Rudd as the leading example, I explain the zero click web… for your mom. Well, for my mom. Both, really. I also break down why the shift is convenient for users, difficult for publishers, and impossible for marketers to ignore. In this episode: 00:00 — Zero-click marketing for the normies 01:09 — Paul Rudd and the zero click internet 02:41 — The broken bargain between platforms and…
E26 · 21 Jul 2026 · 8 min
Why You (Probably) Don’t Need Another Marketing Channel
Good marketing is not about doing more. I explain why every channel creates an ongoing obligation, how opportunity cost shapes modern marketing, and the three filters to decide what deserves time, energy, and attention. Timestamps 00:00 — Why doing more is not the answer 01:39 — What should you stop doing? 02:04 — Marketing channels are recurring obligations 02:56 — How maintenance overwhelms strategy 03:21 — The question to ask before saying yes 05:13 — When metrics should change your plans 06:47 — What can you stop feeling guilty about? 07:11 — You do not have to show up everywhere Learn…
E25 · 14 Jul 2026 · 26 min
How Smart Small Businesses Measure Marketing (with Rachel Elsts Downey)
This is what marketing looks like when perfect attribution isn't possible — and why that may actually be freeing. I chat with Rachel Elsts Downey, founder of Share Your Genius, to discuss podcasting as a business strategy, measuring what actually matters, choosing marketing channels intentionally, and why trust compounds faster than dashboards. Timestamps 00:00 Why podcast partnerships created six-figure pipelines 03:31 Why podcasting worked faster than traditional lead generation 04:10 Is launching a podcast easier today than 10 years ago? 08:46 How Share Your Genius measures marketing…
E24 · 7 Jul 2026 · 30 min
Trust Is the New SEO: Marketing in the AI Era (with Kevin Indig)
I chat with my buddy Kevin Indig about what he’s learning in his AI research, along with generative engine optimization, and user behavior in tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, and Google AI Mode. Kevin explains why clicks are disappearing, why citations may matter less than brand mentions, and why trust is becoming one of the most important assets a brand can build in the AI era. He also explains “ghost citations,” how AI systems seem to read content, and why customer research is becoming newly essential. Links to some of Kevin’s recent research: The Fan-Out Effect: What Happens…
E23 · 30 Jun 2026 · 14 min
AI Doesn't Just Create Demand. It Nurtures It.
In this Field Notes episode, Amanda looks at new research from Similarweb on the downstream impact of AI visibility, plus Seer Interactive’s argument that AI visibility isn’t just an SEO issue — it also affects paid media, brand, and attribution. Timestamps 00:00 Why AI visibility is creating a new attribution problem 01:30 What Similarweb found: AI-recommended brands saw more downstream visits 03:00 Why the traffic often shows up as branded search, not AI referral traffic 04:45 Branded search as a “receipt” for upstream marketing 06:00 Why AI may not create demand, but move or nurture it…
E22 · 23 Jun 2026 · 21 min
What If AI Visibility Is a Mirror?
When AI puts your brand in the wrong category or compares you to the wrong competitors, it's tempting to dismiss it as a hallucination. But what if AI's mistakes reveal something about how the market understands you? I suggest why AI visibility isn't merely a score. It's a mirror. This episode pairs nicely with my May episode, " GEO Is What Happens When Search Becomes Zero Click ." :) Timestamps: 00:00 — Why AI visibility is becoming an executive question 01:34 — AI visibility as a mirror 03:15 — Testing HubSpot’s AEO Grader with SparkToro as an example 05:04 — What a messy competitive set…
E21 · 16 Jun 2026 · 36 min
Public Speaking is the Ultimate Zero-Click Marketing (with Jay Acunzo)
What if the best marketing doesn’t drive a click at all — but makes people seek you out? I chat with Jay Acunzo about why public speaking might be the ultimate form of zero click marketing, how to build ideas that actually matter to your audience, and why resonance beats reach when you’re trying to create work people remember. Jay breaks down how to build stronger arguments for your ideas, why commodity content has such a short shelf life, and what it really means to matter more instead of simply marketing more. Timestamps 00:00 — Jay’s core idea: don’t market more, matter more 02:26 — Why…
E20 · 10 Jun 2026 · 12 min
ZCM Field Notes: 68% of Google Searches Now End Without a Click
Breaking news! Rand Fishkin/SparkToro published a new zero-click search study. In the first four months of 2026, a whopping 68% of Google searches ended without a click. I sound off on this finding, the trajectory of the zero-click phenomenon, and a durable strategy to help you win. Sources: My blog post, which expounds on this episode: The Click Is Now Optional. Here’s What Isn’t. Rand Fishkin/SparkToro: In 2026, Less than One Third of Google Searches Still Send a Click Cyrus Shepard/Zyppy Signal: 5 Data-Backed Features of Websites Winning Google in 2026 Search Engine Land: Roughly 3 in 4…
E19 · 9 Jun 2026 · 29 min
The Content Strategy Frameworks AI Can't Beat (with Kaleigh Moore)
I chat with writer and strategist Kaleigh Moore about how content teams can adapt to AI search without sacrificing quality. Kaleigh shares her “source signal stack” framework, explains why third-party validation matters, and makes the case for treating LinkedIn, Reddit, YouTube, newsletters, and employee-led content as part of one larger visibility ecosystem. Timestamps 00:00 — Why employee experts are such a powerful source of original content 03:06 — How Kaleigh started learning AI tools and GEO/AEO hands-on 05:46 — The “source signal stack” and how LLMs evaluate content 09:40 — The messy…
E18 · 2 Jun 2026 · 34 min
Why B2B Is MORE Emotional Than B2C (with Talia Wolf)
B2B buyers like to pretend decisions are purely rational. But when your job, reputation, budget, and team trust are on the line? That’s emotional as hell. I sat down with Talia Wolf , founder of GetUplift and author of Emotional Targeting, to dig into customer research, pricing transparency, AI search, and how emotional targeting helps marketers create messaging that actually resonates. Talia also shares a case study on how her team helped one company increase free trials by 54% through emotionally resonant comparison pages. Timestamps 00:00 — Why B2B purchases are deeply emotional 01:36 —…
E17 · 27 May 2026 · 13 min
Your Marketing Stack Is About to Get Smaller
The best-of-breed marketing stack made sense when traffic was cheap. But in a zero-click world, every lead is harder to earn — and every tool handoff is another place for that lead to die. In this episode, I make the case for rethinking bloated marketing stacks, explain why small teams may need fewer tools instead of "the best" tool for every job, and share how Typeform’s Growth Flow turns forms into richer workflows for capture, enrichment, automation, and reporting. Timestamps: 00:00 — The best-of-breed era is ending 01:00 — How we got from monoliths to unbundled SaaS stacks 04:30 — What…
E16 · 19 May 2026 · 9 min
A Form Fill Is Not Demand Generation
Here's my new rule for demand generation: Ungate the argument. Gate the utility. Ungate the point of view — and ungate the template, tool, deeper cuts, or genuinely useful live experience. Buyers now have more ways to get answers without entering your funnel: AI search, Reddit, YouTube, private communities, and competitors’ ungated posts. And if your best educational content is locked behind a form, it's not shaping your public record. The better question isn’t “should we gate this?” It’s: what should be freely available so buyers can understand, trust, remember, cite, and share your ideas —…
E15 · 12 May 2026 · 21 min
GEO Is What Happens When Search Becomes Zero-Click
AI search is changing SEO, but not because SEO is dead. It’s changing because search is becoming more zero-click. In this episode, I explain GEO — Generative Engine Optimization — and why it’s less about chasing AI hacks and more about making your content easier to retrieve, understand, cite, trust, and remember. I break down four practical mechanics of GEO: retrievability, extractability, credibility, and public evidence — and show why good AI visibility still starts with good marketing. Timestamps 00:00 Why AI search is changing SEO 01:35 What GEO actually means 03:10 Why GEO is a…
E14 · 7 May 2026 · 2 min
Announcing: Zero Click Marketing — The Book!
Zero Click Marketing: How to Build Brands and Earn Customers on a Traffic-Starved Web is officially available for pre-order. YOU HEARD RIGHT, CUTIES! I announce my and Rand Fishkin's upcoming book, explain why pre-orders matter, and tell you how to claim the pre-order bonuses. Pre-order the book at zeroclickmarketing.co/book . Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads
E13 · 5 May 2026 · 14 min
Why Marketers Make Content for Dashboards (Not Their Audience)
Marketers say they want good strategy. Then they optimize for whatever’s easiest to measure. This episode is about why easy-to-see metrics like traffic, likes, attributed pipeline, and rankings can create false confidence. Instead, better measurement can look like this: off-platform sharing, stronger sales conversations, customer education, adoption of your language, and content that does more than one job. In a zero-click world, the easiest metric to report is not always the one that matters most. Timestamps 00:00 Why marketers optimize for what’s easiest to measure 01:36 How SEO gets too…
E12 · 28 Apr 2026 · 7 min
The End of the “Ultimate Guide” Strategy
For years, marketers were told to create the ultimate guide: one page that covers everything on a topic. That advice worked when the goal was to rank, earn the click, and keep people on your site. But that era is coming to an end. In this episode, I walk through new research on Google and ChatGPT that points in the same direction: broad, catch-all content is getting weaker, while focused, hard-to-replace value is getting stronger. I break down what winning websites actually have in common, why relevance now beats comprehensiveness, and how to rethink your content strategy for a zero-click…
E11 · 21 Apr 2026 · 11 min
The Beige of Marketing
Best practices can help you avoid obvious mistakes — but they can also make your marketing forgettable. In this episode, I explain why the real problem isn’t best practices themselves, but using them without personalization, taste, or audience insight. Drawing on my experience at Fitbit, I’ll show you how audience research leads to stronger content, smarter channel choices, and more compelling marketing — plus a few practical ways to get started without spending much money or time. This episode is an expansion of my blog post, “ Best Practices Are Meaningless Without Audience Research .”…
E10 · 14 Apr 2026 · 11 min
A Playbook for Shaping What the Internet Says About You
Before someone clicks your website, they may already have formed an opinion about your brand from the public record — snippets, Reddit threads, reviews, and AI answers. So today, I’m sharing a 7-step playbook for shaping your brand’s public record. I’ll help you audit what’s visible, identify weak claims versus strong facts, publish more credible proof, make that proof easier to retrieve and cite, and track whether the public story around your brand is getting stronger over time. It’s a practical episode about reputation, visibility, and what marketers can still influence in a world of…

About Zero Click Marketing

Zero Click Marketing is a English business podcast from Amanda Natividad. Melo plays each episode straight from the publisher's own feed — no ads added, no account needed — and remembers where you stopped, in this browser only.

Publisher: Amanda Natividad
Language: English
Category: Business
New episodes: Weekly
Typical length: 21 min
Latest episode: 13 Oct 2026
Feed: RSS — paste into any podcast app
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1883862031
Rights: Amanda Natividad

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