Live with David Christopher Kaufman

0:01I'll never understand animals We have a cat I am, I'm fostering one. Do you want it? [laughs] Uh, not today, but apparently our cat needs a friend. Aw. Oh. Well, he's actually-- He's, um... I wrote a profile for him, and I sent it to the shelter, but I don't think they liked it, 'cause I tried to market him as a bad boy. If you like men who are like ter- who treat you terribly, but, but you just, like, can't stay away from them- Yeah... he's the perfect cat for you. That's ridiculous.

0:32I wanna talk-- That's actually an interesting story idea, people who write profiles for cat adoption that mimic, um, like Bumble or, or- Yeah... or Hinge. No, it re- it really is, but I don't-- But you know, he hurts me a lot, but he also loves me, so... And I d- I know he doesn't mean it when he hurts me. Yeah, that sounds like my ex. So [laughs] Maybe it belongs outside, not inside, like animals are supposed to be. Uh, you know, it is, it is trying to-- When it sees birds outside, it does try to chase them. Now it is in an Amazon cardboard box.

1:05I feel bad for it. Why do we get told we can't go to zoos and enjoy a zoo anymore? You're supposed to feel guilty, but you're allowed to trap this animal in your house. [laughs] He's trapping me in the house. I can't even go to SeaWorld anymore and see Shamu. They took Shamu away. [laughs] Wait, I'm gonna, I'm gonna remove this box from him because he's literally, like, raping it, like a- Oh my... like an IDF dog. Hold on. Oh my God. Yeah. So you guys can talk to the viewers in the meantime. Oh my G- You, so d- you have a cat? We have a cat, yeah. Uh-huh. But no dogs. No dogs. Okay. Just a cat. It must be annoying in the city.

1:40I can't imagine living in New York City and having a, a pet, like, especially one you have to walk. Our p- our pet, uh, goes between, uh, the, the two dads. So whoever has the kid has the cat. Oh. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. That's cute. We play tag with that. They should do, like, pet sharing. We do pet sharing, yeah. Yeah. Like the way people do, um, you know, like, uh, meet somebody online to have a baby. Yeah. I knew somebody who did that. I gotta say, it was a little, like-- It gave me a little bit of an ick that he- What? That they met to have a baby?

2:12That he was like, "Yeah, I wanted a kid, so I found a woman who also wanted a kid, and we did..." I don't even-- I don't think they had sex. I think they just, like, signed a contract. But that's quite common. That's quite common in Israel. It is very common in Israel. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Why? Um, you have women-- Yeah, there's a, a strong, um, um, um, what's the word? Um, imperative to reproduce- Mm... in Israel. Right. So being a single woman or being a gay man is no excuse not to have children. No, but this guy was a straight man. Right. That's why I thought it was a little weird. Yeah. But like, um, what's his name?

2:50Nicholas Berggruen, like, had kids on his own or had kids with like a surrogate in history. Right. Who did? The billionaire Nicholas Berggruen. Oh, so did Andy Cohen and Anderson Cooper, but again, gay men with lots of money. Yeah. Uh, uh, we have, we don't have lots of money, but we have kids. [laughs] Um, what was I gonna say? Hi, everybody who's joining us with David Christopher Kaufman, you, who you may know from, like, New York Post, Daily Mail, your Substack, everywhere. I was gonna share, I was gonna share, like, gossip.

3:22I don't know if it's gossip, but have-- Do you know what's, like, rocking the New York Jewish community today, a celebrity sighting from this morning? Who's it? Do you know what I'm talking about? Who? I do not, no. Oh, apparently BJ Novak was spotted at Hi- Hinenu or one of those, like, fancy synagogues. Oh, really? Saturday morning. And my neighbor, who's also my friend, uh, posted about it on Instagram. She's like, "Oh my God, the guy from The Devil Wears Prada 2 was at synagogue today." And I was like, "Excuse me?

3:56You mean BJ Novak, who, like, wrote and produced, like, the best Office episodes, now we're referring to him as the guy from The Devil Wears Prada 2?" [laughs] Of everybody's fave. David, tell us about End Jew Hatred Summit. What is that? Yeah, why weren't we invited? I, I mean, everybody was invited. It was, it was a summit that took place on En- End Jew Hatred Day. Um, you know, another one of these summits- Wait, why do we only get a day to end Jew hatred? I know, seriously. And that, that, that's why there's so much Jew hatred.

4:26It's one of-- It was one of these conferences to bring together activists and folks who hopefully have some, uh, uh, insight in how to, you know, change sit- the precarious situation that we're in right now. There's a bit of a background of, of, of an, of an echo of me. You do? We can hear it. I can hear you fine. We don't hear that. Can people hear us okay? There you go. Every day is Jew Hatred Day. Exactly. [laughs] Except for that one day. It's 364 days. Are we, are we, are we live? Are we live already? Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, hi, everybody. [laughs] Yeah, we have some people in the chat chatting.

5:02Hi, people in the chat chatting. Yes. Um, oh, interesting. So- Happy to say you sound good... was it like a summit where people spoke? Like, was it- Yeah, people spoke. I was on a panel with other folks who were talking about, um, sort of alliance building and, uh, communities coming together to solve the problem. I'm not so, uh, invested in that, uh, what I consider an anachronistic way of thinking. I think that, you know, the only community we should be building with is our own.

5:31[laughs] But, um, I think I had a few interesting things to say. Nice. I, um, I don't know. I'm a little, like, maybe because I'm a cynical bitch, but I'm, I'm a little, like, over all these, like, Jewish organizations coming together to solve the problem, which just- Mm... usually ends up being, like, a red carpet and lots of Instagram photos. Yeah, this, this wasn't red carpet-y. It wasn't a gala. It was definitely, uh, a summit, and it was definitely an, uh, a get-together in order to, uh, uh, uh, tackle- Uh, a very clearly defined, uh, uh, problem, which is Jew hatred.

6:11What I liked about this, uh, event is that all of us were sort of tasked with ending the event with a call to action or some- Hmm... sort of, um, a lesson that folks can take away, uh, to, uh, put into practice in their daily lives to eradicate, you know, the, the horrible situation that we're in. So I thought that that was interesting as well. But I also find that these panels or these events tend to be a bit problematic because it's just a lot of people trying to say a lot of different things, and sometimes I think it's hard to hear any sort of one concrete message because there's so many messages being broadcast at the same time.

6:43But of course, everybody's heart is in the right place. What I find difficult is, and I spend a lot of time doing this on campus, is, you know, we're the Jewish community going to the university administration and offering solutions to anti-Semitism on campus, right? Or, like, definitions and, you know, plans and, and meetings, and it's like, but I don't see the other g- minority groups or other religious groups, like, having to do that. It comes from within the university, right?

7:15Saying, like, "We have to do better about A, B, C, or D," and they, like, make plans to make that happen, and we, I think, in the Jewish community are doing this thing where it's like, "No, no, no, wait, us too. Look at us. We also need you to worry about us, and we also need to be part of DEI or whatever." And I'm just like, it's so not my style. I'd rather play hard to get. Like [laughs] I think, I think, I think you're, you're articulating something really important, and somebody in the audience in the chat was quite helpful.

7:43At the end of the, uh, event this past week, the, uh, uh, End Jew Hatred event, each of us were tasked with giving a call to action, and that's, that's what it was. But what I think what you're saying here is that what you see amongst Jews is that we are holding all these events and all these summits, all these conferences in order to solve, uh, the scourge of anti-Semitism. So unli- unlike every other minority, we've been tasked, and, and unfortunately, on a certain level, we've accepted the task as a sort of...

8:12Instead of saying, we've been tasked with solving our own crisis of anti-Semitism, whereas Black people aren't really tasked with solving the crisis of racism. Uh, they actually expect white people to solve it. Uh, gay people aren't really tasked with solving the crisis of homophobia. Hmm. They expect straight people to solve it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Good point. The Jews, the Jews are tasked and often compelled to prove and to justify these claims of anti-Semitism.

8:37And because we're Jews, and we are solutions-oriented people, and we're people who are, who are all about, uh, organizing and act- and activating and bringing people together and, and trying to intellectually solve all these challenges, we fall for the... We fall, and we f- and we feel compelled to do something, of course, because- Yeah... it af- affects us personally. So we feel compelled to, to do something. We take the bait, and that's, I think, one of the challenges that we're seeing so far after October 7th is that we're kind of being...

9:06You know, Jews today are unquestionably enduring the most serious discrimination, hate crimes, uh, uh, hatred of, of any group, uh, in, in America right now, a level that- Unquestionable to us, by the way, not to the world. What was that? I, I said I-- to us, that's unquestionable. Right. That's unquestionable. But I, I- Sorry, I feel like my... I have an echo, so I might start saying something. No, you're fine also. And at every moment in this process, we are constantly challenged.

9:36We are constantly confronted with folks who want to deny this or to blame us or to, again, for us to justify. And instead of us immediately saying, you know, "We're, we're, you know, we feel there's anti-Semitism, and we're not going to prove it," because, you know, we feel it. We see it every day. Like every other minority group, a Black person says, "I feel, I feel like I've experienced racism," nobody asks them to prove it. But the problem is that we keep on falling for this bait all the time, and unfortunately, this is, when it comes to these, you know, tricks that our enemies are trying to, uh, to wage against us, it's always a lose-lose situation.

10:14I mean, one small example, if you look at what happened, I wrote about this, with the Julian Casablanca situation last week. He was on the subway with the guy doing that subway video. Mm-hmm. And he was talking about the Jews are basically imitating Black people, and, uh, they, they basically are, are, are, are, um, demanding, um, acknowledgement of, um, discrimination at the levels of Black people, but they enjoy the, the privilege of white people.

10:38It's an extremely incendiary, uh, thing to say, and it really was, uh, at, in a moment of endless escalations in this, you know, two-and-a-half year period post October 7th. It was a new level of grossness. It was a real escalation to really just say Jewish people are pretending or acting like Blacks, but they actually enjoy the privilege of whites. Like, how dare they? I mean, there's a real, real dismissal of what's happening here. But what you saw amongst the outraged folks were, was a real intense focus on Casablanca, on who he is, the fact that he's white, the fact that he comes from a very famous father, the fact that he has lots of money, the fact that he has, he enjoys the privilege, uh, that he's, uh, is alleging that Jews have.

11:23So there was all of this focus on the messenger, but there wasn't focus on the message. Mm. And this is where we keep on falling into these traps. You know, we take the most obvious bait. Yeah, it's, it sucked that Julian Casablanca said all these horrible things. It sucked that he used the language of privilege when he went to a Swiss boarding school and used to hang out with Donald Trump when he was a kid. But what really sucked was that he was saying that Jews do not have a right to claim that they're enduring- Mm-mm... discrimination right now. Right. That really sucked, and people kept on glossing over it.

11:56And even worse, what really sucked is he said Jews are pretending or aping or mimicking, uh, uh, uh, the experience of African Americans. That's a really strong- So lame... race-based statement. I mean- In, in the hands of the wrong people, like the Candace Owens of the world, that could be, and that has been a call to, like, to violence and to, you know, a race war. I mean, that's a very, very serious allegation, and so many people sort of glossed over that and was sort of like, "Well, how dare he say it?"

12:27And again, these are these traps that our enemies are constantly, constantly laying for us, all of these landmines. And, and because we as a people have a history of being accommodating, always trying to do the right thing and think about other people, we fall into these traps, and that is what has to stop. I wanna ask you, David, 'cause you have a unique oppor- I think this is, like, a unique perspective that I can ask you this question. And- You can ask me whatever you want...

12:51just to go into a little background, and I'm, I'm gonna be honest, like, I wouldn't usually say this publicly, but because we're a small crowd, I feel like I can say it and no one's gonna repeat it in my name. But, um, I, I- [laughs] Yeah, this is only a public podcast. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm joking. But, um, we have... You know, the Jewish Federation is sort of the convener of all the Jewish organizations, and we have a newsletter that comes out every other month or whatever, like a glossy magazine, and the director puts a, a letter on the front page, you know, a message to the community.

13:23Now- Yeah... the... this is essentially the top Jew, right, in the city that I live in. Yeah. Maybe not the rabbi's, but you know, he's like the head of the Jewish Federation. Yeah. And I was reading it yesterday, and his message, the entire article, was about Pride Month, right? Yeah. And LGBTQ rights- Mm-hmm... and how everybody was created, B'tzelem Elokim, in the image of Hashem. Mm-hmm. And this is the biggest thing. We have to- Love Hashem. Love Hashem... we have to welc- [laughs] yeah, exactly. We have to welcome everybody in, and the strangers- Right...

13:53and we have to make sure everyone's taken care of in the queer community. Mm-hmm. Now, we-- I live in a place that is, like, extremely, uh, queer-centered. Like, every... I mean, the literal crosswalks in our city are painted rainbow colors because it is so queer-friendly. And I read it, and I thought to myself, "Am I crazy?" Like, the Jewish world is on fire, right? We have a war in Israel, a war with Iran. We have antisemitism all over. We have an, a, a, a, a assimilation beyond-- Like, we don't know what we're doing, who is Jewish, who's not.

14:26I mean, I could go on and on with the questions and issues that we have. And this guy wrote in the, the year of the Lord, 2026, not our Lord, but someone else's Lord, okay? That he chose to write an ar- a two-page article on LGBTQ- Mm-hmm... and how we have to take care of them as if they're suffering in the streets of Long Beach, California. And I- Yeah, easy... I think to myself, "Am I crazy? And maybe I'm the one who's out to lunch, or is he nuts?" And so you have to answer that question. He's nuts. [laughs] Okay, good. Thank you. He's nuts. He's nuts.

14:59And I mean, did he put in this, uh, two-page, uh, uh, uh, missive that, uh, the queers for Palestine are constantly advocating for our, our destruction? Has- did he acknowledge that all these queer groups and gay groups that we align with and supported so greatly, you know, uh, uh, uh, joined, joined in the name of intersectionality with, with Hamas and pro-jihadi groups? A- actually did so, uh, bafflingly, um, a- at their own detriment. I mean, did he, did he question the logic of gay groups aligning themselves with Islamic fundamentalism even though, you know, Hamas has a very long paper trail of throwing gay people off, off roofs?

15:38Or did he only say that we, we, we have to do this, this, this, and this? But in the, you know, in, in the, in the, uh, esteemed words of Janet Jackson, "What have they done for us lately?" [laughs] You know what I mean? Or that might've been Jo- it might've been Jodi Watley. Um, so I think, you know, and it's actually a very disappointing, not surprising, but very disappointing so far along post-October 7th, that all of these, you know, extremely progressive, uh, congregations of rabbis are, are holding on so tightly to this myth of intersectionality, this myth of, myth of wokeness, this myth of, of progressive ideology, when it has over and over and time and time again proven to be to our detriment.

16:21But the problem isn't really him. The problem is the, the, the, the congregation, the community that he represents. 'Cause where are the people outraged- Yeah... that he has devoted two pages to- Me... th-this, this- But who else... Who's gonna come out and be like- Uh-uh... "Stop talking about the gays," you know- Well, it's, it's not-... except for Chaya Levent? And by the way, it's not about the gays. I love the gays. It's about we're not in 2020 anymore. Like, it's a new world today. What are we talking about? Yeah. But I think it's a worldwide problem, too.

16:50Like, my friend was in the Netherlands, and he's, he's gay, but irrelevant, or maybe it is. But he said, "There were so many pride flags, and I didn't see any Dutch flags." And I asked my tour guide, I'm like, "There are a lot of pride flags here. Where are your Dutch flags?" And the tour guide was like, "Yeah, we don't really do that here." Hmm. So- Yeah... it's almost like the easy thing to do. Well, it's easy. It's feelgood. It's, it, it's, it's comfortable. It's familiar. Mm. It's the way we've been sort of trained.

17:19We've been trained as, you know, g- good Jews to expand the table and open the table. The problem is that we did that for so many years, and then the table was upended, and the people sitting around the table tried to kill us, you know? [laughs] And, and what I would, what I, what I would say is that it's not about, you know, closing ourselves off. It's not about, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, a dramatic scene from some movie where you, like, swipe the table clean. I mean, although we actually do do that. We, as Jews, must have allies. We must have people, um...

17:52We must build coalitions. The problem is that we, you know, were duped into spending all this time, energy, political muscle, c- cultural commus- muscle, emotional muscle, investing in the wrong allies. Mm. Investing in allies, and we didn't really ask sort of tough questions of allies that we were sort of told were the right kinds of allies to, to, to invest in. Um, we h- were constantly accommodating these allies. So if you look, I mean, if you look at all of these progressive groups, it wasn't that they, the queer groups or the, or the Black groups or the feminist groups, it wasn't that suddenly on October 8th- They started showing their true colors.

18:32They were showing the true colors for a very, very long time. Don't forget- Mm-hmm... you know, there has been an effort, a very concerted effort to deny, uh, J- uh, Jewish groups access to Pride parades, for example. BLM. Yeah, BLM, Black Lives Matter, institutionalized, you know, from formalized anti-Zionism into their foundational platform long before October 7th, and long before d- long before, you know, the summer of 2020. This was going on for a very, very long time. Mm-hmm. But still, we as Jews, we ignored not just warning signs, we ignored, you know, warning, you know, um, azakot, warning, you know, sirens. Yeah. You know what I mean?

19:12We ignored them. They were screaming at us because we felt that it was the right thing to do. There's a lot of social pressure. But also, the worst part about it is that there's a lot of social currency, a lot of social cachet, a lot of money in these sort of established progressive wokey alliances. There's all of these, these foundations, and there's grant money if you say or you do the right thing, and I think that's part of the problem is that we as, uh, uh, you know, Jewish activists, and most importantly our Jewish leadership, we need to say that we are no longer going to be part of this, and we are no longer going to accept allies who in the end, you know, are actually aligned against us.

19:54It's not that we shouldn't have coalitions or allies. What we need to start from scratch and choose the right allies. And believe me, they're out there. Yeah. There are plenty of, of Black groups or gay groups or, or, or feminist groups or Latino groups or, or artist coalitions that actually are on our side. We need to actually make the effort to find them, and most importantly, we need to sever ties immediately with anybody who has shown any sort of, you know, uh, uh, toxic and malignant and murderous, uh, attitudes towards us.

20:29Absolutely. Yeah, 'cause these, these groups- I'll give you one, I'll give you one more example. There was that recent brouhaha at the Atlanta Jewish Film Festival where there was a young, um, Muslim student, African American Muslim student, uh, who was, you know, uh, uh, asked to be on, on the, uh, asked to be a judge of the Atlanta Film Festival, and the Isr- and he had turned, and unsurprisingly, this young college kid had sh- demonstrated pro-Hamas sentiments, uh, post-October 7th, and the Israeli consulate said, "If we don't get rid of him, we're gonna pull our funding."

21:00Um, now my question is, why was this young African American Islamic student- Exactly... a j- a juror at the Atlanta Film Festival in the fucking first place? I know. Like, do we see Jewish students- Exactly. That's a suicidal empathy Right. Do we see Jew... Exactly. It's suicidal, you know, mind virus. Do we see young Jewish students at, you know, or, or pro-Zionistic young Jewish students at Black film festivals? Why? You know, so yes, someone here is talking about the new school Hillel thing, although that actually is not as horrible- Ugh... as it seems. Um, so again, it's like...

21:32And I keep on saying I don't wanna bla- I don't wanna Jew blame because we are so overwhelmed with responsibility and burden right now, but nobody is coming to our rescue. Nobody is going to save us. I'm happy to Jew blame. We're f- I'm happy to Jew blame. Mm-hmm. Because I think some of these organizations have been, you know, busy like jerking off, excuse me, instead of thinking about the hard problems. But I wanna, I wanna go back to the, um, what you mentioned about allies because, you know, these, these, for example, Pride has been, has been kicking out Jewish groups, but they've also been k- kicking out cops as early as like- Oh, yeah...

22:092016, 2018. I remember the NYPD, um, cops from Toronto PD would come down to march in uniform, you know, cute little mountie red uniforms with the NYPD because they were kicked out of Toronto. And eventually NYPD that had a really good relationship with Heritage of Pride. I'm talking like they would have police events at Stonewall, got kicked out of the parade. Yeah. So, like- The police, and gay, and gay cops weren't allowed to march as an organization as a group. Yeah, no, that was the thing. They g- they gay... They told the cops, "You can march if you want, but not in uniform."

22:42Mm-hmm. And thank God the cops said, "Go fuck yourself, then we won't march." Um, but like wh- you know, how do we m- make people realize this isn't just about us? And also, can you confirm my suspicion that 90% of gay men over 40 are based? Are based? Mm-hmm. They're like normal. Okay. Oh, based. [laughing] I'm so out of it. I mean, yeah. Well- Based is like code for like right-wing, but it's like, you know, like- Well, it go, it speaks to this i-... not woke... it speaks to this idea that...

23:16'Cause people are always saying, how do we deal with this, you know, mass or critical mass of all these folks who are against us, Jews in Israel? And I always say, I don't think they actually are. The grand mass is against us. They're based, as you guys have just like taught me. What it-- the problem is, is that it's the loudest voices in the room. Mm-hmm. It's the loudest voices in the room who suck away all the oxygen. Ah. And to our detriment, the loudest voices in the Jewish community tend to be anti-Zionist, tend to be pro-Mondyani, and unfortunately the, the, you know, the mainstream media is completely on their side.

23:47Um, but- Mm-hmm... but what you were saying about, you know, um, it's not just us, I mean, that's extremely important. One, I think one of the action, the actions I said, the action items I said last, last, earlier this week, is that what I've really begun to understand through, uh, work of folks like, uh, Naya Lex and pe- and the people who are involved in the anti-Zionism, uh, uh, movement, as opposed to the anti-Semitism portion of it, it's all connected and all very important- Mm-hmm...

24:12um, is that, and also somebody, of course, who is both African American and Jewish American, or just Jewish, is that, um, we are basically not facing an anti-Semitism problem. I mean, we are, but it's more than that. It's more than an anti-Semitism problem. It's more than a anti-Zionism problem. What it really is, is like we are in the midst of a battle for our civil rights. This is a civil rights-... battle. Mm. It's a civil rights issue. You know, I, I'm working on a piece right now where I talk about this, and, like, the thinking is that, you know, Jews have been very lucky, um, at the moment that other minorities were engaging in these massive civil rights movements.

24:52Jews, in some ways, leapfrogged over them because- Mm... of ec- economic advancement, cultural advancement, uh, political advancement. So we were able to secure sort of the totems of equality and full integration without actually securing the legal and, and, um, institutional and almost constitutional, uh, um, requirements for that equality. And so right now we're seeing the failure of securing this, and what we're, what we're really fighting is, is a, a civil rights battle. And I think if we can begin to use that language... And for me it's very clear.

25:29The, the, the war, the battle for civil rights that Jews are facing is as clear to me as the battle for civil rights that my father as a Black person was, was faced, you know, 50 years ago. That's exactly the same thing. Mm. I think if we can start... This is a, a beautiful and very, I think, easy to understand, it's a very American way of explaining what we are facing. You know, if you explain to a Black person, "As a Jew right now, I am facing this. I am facing inability for my children to go to school without being harassed.

26:00I'm facing an inability often for, um, myself or my spouse to go to our w- our workplace without being harassed. I'm facing an inability to go to my house of worship without being harassed. I'm facing the, the, the, the very direct threat of physical, of an attack on my, on myself or my family, on our physical safety, and there have been cases where folks like me have been killed." Well, that's exactly what happened to African American people during, you know, the last century. It's not... Sorry, that is much of what happened- Right... to African Americans or to gay Am- gay Americans or to women.

26:34Uh, so if we could begin to use this language of civil rights and, and paint exactly what we mean by that. As I just said, we can't go to school un- unmolested. We can't go to our places of worship. We face physical, we face physical abuse. Like, if we could begin to explain it like that clearly, that I think would be a much more effective way to bring on coalition partners and allies who truly understand and are invested in our, you know, our civil rights.

27:05I think we also have to be more open to accepting some forms of anti-Semitism, and let me give you an example. I was with- out with my husband today, and a woman with a very heavy accent came over to us and she says, "Are you from Israel?" And we're like, "No." So she goes, "No?" 'Cause my husband's with his kippah and tzitzit and his beard. And I'm like: "No, we live here in Long Beach." So she goes, we... I said, "We're Jewish." She goes, "Oh, I'm Ukrainian. I love the Jews. We love the Jews."

27:34Aw. "We're partners. Israel and Ukraine and the Jews, we're partners. And you know why? Because the Jews are smart, and we knew to get a smart president we had to take a Jew." And I'm like- Mm-hmm... good, I love this kind of- I'll, I'll accept that... anti-Semitic. Yeah. I love the low, the low, uh, grade- Mm... anti-Semitism that she was spouting. I'm like, "Yes, more of that, please. Bring it on." We'll take, we'll take what we can get. We'll... I, yeah, fine. Yeah. I'll, I'll accept that.

27:58Uh, but, you know, I, I feel like if that would happen in a, somewhere in, like, a Jewish organization, you'd get 3,000 emails about it. [laughs] Well, but, but- About how it's, like, wrong. Right. But it wouldn't, but you, you wouldn't get 3,000 emails if some, you know, uh, a, a Black LGBT organization used that kind of language. Exactly. It's just because she's white that she's... Uh, uh, I assume that she's white that she's using that language. So- Yeah, it's true... it's very selective. It's very, very selective. The... Yeah. I mean, the, the problem is, there are so many problems, but, um, regarding kind of what you mentioned about the subway interview with what's-his-fucking-name, I don't even wanna know his name. Casablanca. Stupid name, by the way. What does that even mean, Casablanca?

28:35There's only one Casablanca. There's no [laughs] plural. [laughs] Anyway. Um, but what- Apparently his father was a horrible guy, too. Anyway, go on. I'm sure he was. Um, but so have you list- do you listen to Block and Reported? Uh, no. I'm not a big, uh, podca- [laughs] podcast person, as I'm on a podcast. [laughs] Okay. Um. It's okay. This is not a podcast. It's okay. This is a live stream. Mm-hmm. Uh, no, no. It's, uh, it's a great podcast. I love it. We're friendly with the hosts, and, and they just had David Baddiel on, um, from, you know, the wonderful book, Twos Don't Count, which everybody should read. Oh. But they were talking, they're two, two diaspora Jews, so to speak, and they were talking about anti-Semitism.

29:16And it, like, something didn't really sit right with me, and I couldn't... It took me a while to put my finger on it. But they kept talking about how they don't wanna be blamed for what's going on in Israel, and how unfair it is that people see a Jew and they say, "Free Palestine." They're 100% correct. That is shitty behavior. But I was like, I feel like it should bother you more that the things people are saying- Mm... are really, really stupid and dumb- Mm-hmm... and wrong, and lead to violence. Right. Not that- Yeah...

29:43like, you know, if, if there are, I don't know, I'm trying to think of an example of, like... You know, if, for example- I have lots, I have lots of examples. Okay, you do the examples. [laughs] I have lots of- Because all my examples are racist, so I don't wanna do those. [laughs] Well, I mean, well, th- there, there is the problem. You're afraid of being called racist as opposed to just saying your example. And what you should really do is just say your example.

30:04Like, like, don't be bamboozled into thinking you have to be silent because you wanna make a comparison to defend Jewish people. That is, that is the mind that they are laying for us, and you have just fallen into it. Don't- Oh my gosh, I'm one of them. Yeah. As I like to say, Jews d- Jews defending Jews is a revolutionary act, and we must be revolutionaries at all time. Now, about the exa- about the example, I mean- Okay, so he is upset that he is being, um, identified with as a Jew with what's going on in Israel because he probably feels like he's not a, a, a Zionist or Israeli. He's just some, some- Mm-hmm...

30:41Jew in America, and why should it bother him? And he's absolutely right. I mean, we don't see, uh, Chinese people being, you know, uh, blamed for, um, what's happening in China. In fact, during early COVID- Is that like-... we all, we all recall that there were Chinese people who were Asian people who were experiencing discrimination because of the, uh, this, the, the, the rep- the, the rumor, though it obviously it could be true, but the rumor at the time that, uh, COVID had begun in, in China, so all these- A blood libel...

31:08Yeah, it was a blood libel. And in fact, it was true, but the whole world kind of like woke up and, and rose up against it. But here, this has not happened. So I completely understand what this man is saying. He's saying, "Why should I be blamed when, you know, um, uh, Russians in Brighton Beach aren't blamed for Putin or Chinese in China- Uh-huh... aren't blamed for what's happening in, in China?" And he's right. But I think it speaks to a bigger problem, which is what he's saying is that, "I don't want to be burdened. I don't wanna be bo- I can't be bothered with all this antisemitism, Jew- Jew-ish stuff, stuff.

31:38I'm just like Dan Schwartz from, you know, from Scarsdale. I mean, what does this have to do with me?" You know, "Why should I be bothered with all of this?" And again, on a very basic level, he, he, he is correct. Um, but he doesn't seem to understand, and this is where our Jewish leadership and our sort of our Jewish traditions have failed us, that what he doesn't seem to understand is that he doesn't have a choice in this matter. This is how it works. He is a minority. He is a maligned and imperiled minority. Not whether or not he chooses... And this is probably where I, as a Black person, can tell you what this is like. Like, I don't wake up.

32:17I, you- I know every day I cannot opt out of racism. If there's somebody out there who wants to be racist against me and take action against me as an African American, there is nothing I can do about it, and Jews need to begin to understand this in America. They are a minority. They are imperiled. I'm not making this up. The data says it very clearly. They, you, Dan Schwartz from Scarsdale, whether you like it or not, you are a Jew, and that makes you a target because you are Jewish.

32:46And yes, at this moment, there might be a connection to what's happening in Israel and Gaza and Netanyahu in this instance. But this did not begin with Netanyahu, did not begin with October 7th. It began hundreds, centuries, and thousands of years ago. It's so hard to explain this to them. But they need to, and- It's so hard... and instead of, and instead of... Uh, uh, but, but so, so you can, just as no Black person would ever begin to think that they could opt out of racism, Jews must understand that they cannot opt out of antisemitism. It is beyond them.

33:20And most importantly, while they may want to say, "I am not part of this," the problem is that the folks aligned against us, they say you are part of this. You know, Ha- Hamas- Exactly. That's what I'm telling them. And one more, again, and this isn't exclusive to October 7th. You know, during the Holocaust, it wasn't that there was some line for like, you know, the, the, the better Jews that the Nazis are like, "Oh, you guys can go. You're exempt."

33:47No, it is because you are Jewish that they don't like you, and you need to accept that. And in some way, a- a- and once you... I mean, it's a very hard thing to accept. I think, you know, our j- our Jewish tradition in America, and again, our Jewish institutions, haven't really prepared Jews for that. Every Black person in America grows up being, you know, uh, educated by other Black people on how to deal with racism. Um, but as Jews, we generally haven't had the burden of that, but we have it now.

34:19[laughs] You know, we have it now. Yeah. And so we have to rise to that. And I guess what I would also say is that as, as someone who is, you know, both African A- American and Jewish American a- and has to deal, you know, with multiplicities of, of oppression, as the woke folks would like to say, and the intersection- sections of them, what I can also say is like, this is, this is survivable. Like, this is not the end of the world. Like, like, it, this, this battle that we now have to fight, we can fight it. We can win it, but we have to acknowledge it, and that's the problem.

34:53There's this, this unwillingness to acknowledge the actual, real shitty situation that we're in right now. Well, there is... I mean, I would offer one perspective here is that there's a concept of Jewish peoplehood that these Jews just missed out on. They don't understand that concept. I mean, and not to, you know, call them out by name, but Yael mentioned the podcast that she's talking about. I mean, clearly the two Jewish people who are talking there don't understand that Judaism is not just...

35:21And I, I mean, I feel like we say this a billion times, but it's not a religion. It's not just a re- it's not just anything. We're a people. Mm-hmm. And so it doesn't matter how distant you wanna push yourself or y- or how far away you wanna run or how, you know, you don't feel connected. I mean, it is part of who we are. And, and I know that that Jewish peoplehood piece is really, really hard for many secular Jews to understand, and it's really hard for non-Jews to understand. Mm-hmm. Because I think a typical American who...

35:53And, and we're very... I'm, I'm super American, right? Like, I, um, you know, on one side of my par- one side of my family, we're multi-generational Americans, right? But I belong to a people called the Jewish people, and what happens to a Jew, whether they're in England, whether they're in Tel Aviv, whether they're in Buenos Aires or Tampa, Florida, it affects me. And it doesn't matter how far- Literally, because you know ha- you know half of them, and you're like texting each other. Correct. Not just you, all of us.

36:21Let me give you an example of how to make people understand that, because you know who should organically and logically understand that? Are Muslims Because how do we explain that Muslims from all over the world have been riled up by what's happening in Gaza? Like, this idea of Islamic peoplehood, of a shared connection because of faith. No, no group better espouses that than Islam and than Muslims. A- and nobody would question, say, a Muslim from Saudi Arabia or a Muslim from, uh, uh, uh, Pakistan, you know, a- aligning with the fight in Gaza out of a shared, uh, uh, Muslim identity.

37:02In fact, that is often what happens in these terror situations. Don't forget the shooter in Bondi Beach in Australia was a radicalized Islamic Pakistani. It wasn't some dude from Gaza. So if we wanna, if we wanna have people- It never is... yeah, but if we wanna have some people, uh, uh, people understand what it means to be a Jew, it's very similar to how the Muslim world identifies as a, as, as a unified, cohesive body based around Islam. Yeah.

37:30How do, but how do we get the world to understand that if we don't internally understand that? And we have so many, you know, anti-Zionist Jews or Jews who like to, you know, completely internalize the, the self-hatred. Mm-hmm. Uh, I'm not talking about, uh- Can I-... Jeffy and David, 'cause I thought their conversation was, was good for the most part. But, you know, we have all these, um, S- Chaya Sari, Mandy Patankins, and friends, and then, and then the media takes them and p- and, and shoves them into the mainstream and says, "Look, Jews." Of course.

38:01I mean, we don't have enough of the ca- of the alternative voices out there, you know? We don't have enough... I mean, you do have folks like, you know, Jerry Seinfeld, I mean, who've been quite, quite strident. Mm. Uh, um, but you know, don't forget, Jerry Seinfeld e- e- enjoys a, a very, very serious, you know, sort of e- economic situation that most folks don't enjoy. Yeah, and he's, like, done. Yeah. He's- I think, yeah, I s- and I s- I'm very, you know, proud of him.

38:22I, but I think that, um, I think Jews still are concerned that they have a lot to lose, and I think the Jews also are afraid, and I think understandably. I mean, it's not a joke what's happening, and unlike any other, uh, a civil protest movement that I've ever really seen in the history of this country, the pro-Gaza, pro-Palestinian movement is exceedingly violent. Exceedingly violent. And so this fear- Very violent... this fear of physical safety for ourselves and for our children is, is very real, and I, I think we need to, I think we need to acknowledge that.

38:57Like, I think we need to ackn- and, and that's part of the problem. The moment you start saying it is violent, the reflexive response for the folks who control the narrative is to say, "You're being Islamophobic because you're calling, uh, Muslims, you know, violent and terrorists." Well, there might be- No, there are plenty of white kids there... w- yes. Yes, exactly. But we're saying, but you're saying the movement is because it's, it's a, it's, it's an Arab-based or Islamic-based, but it does- It's inherently violent and, and it's- It's very violent...

39:21not just violent in action, it's violent in messaging. And I've said it before and I'll say it again, find me one of these protests or one Instagram account or one movement or whatever for Palestinian rights that doesn't employ genocidal lies, um, and I'll change my mind. But the only place I find that, actually, are from some Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, not enough, but some, and in Israel. Because when you go here to, like, any organization that's called, like, Save the Children or, you know, Help Palestinians Be Free, it all sounds great, but you scroll, like, two Instagram posts behind, or you look at the materials they're sending you, and you're like, "Holy shit, this is batshit crazy stuff."

40:07You could, you should see on c- on our campus. Like, we had, last week was Israel Week, or two weeks ago, so we had up this display of, like, banners that, you know, six banners, very kind of parev, right? Like, one was about Pride Month in Israel. Explain what parev is for our listeners. Parev is, like, it wasn't incendiary in any way. It was, like, so banal. It was, like, you know, about Pride Month in Israel and about multiculturalism and about Arab Israelis. Like, nothing to do with the war or anything that anybody could, you know, get upset about.

40:37And the first day it was up, it got knocked, all six banners got knocked down three times. Mm-hmm. And the university tried to gaslight us and tell us that it was windy. And I'm standing there- [laughs]... and I'm like, "Where, show, where is the wind?" Sorry. "Let me, tell me where the wind is." And they would not take it seriously that we were actually struggling. Mm-hmm. And it was only the police department, the campus police, that finally listened to us and came there, and they stood at, they, they stood there the rest of the week, you know, protecting our stupid banners.

41:05I mean, like, it's ridiculous. Were you nice to them? Did you bring them muffins or something after? Of course we were nice to them. I, I found out that they have a jail cell on campus, and I joked to the chief. I didn't know they have two jail cells on campus, and I joked to the p- the chief of police. I said, "Oh, can you arrest me one day? 'Cause I just need time alone, and it would be really nice for me to, like, be..." And she did not think it was funny. I was like, "No, I'm just joking." [laughs] "I just want some peace." She probably heard it a million times. But anyway, I know, probably.

41:32But anyway, the point is, they don't even care. Like, the school won't even acknowledge what they're doing. Right. And then you, and by the way, last thing and then I'll let you talk, but, like, the, the social media part of it, I mean, the, the posts that we were, the, the comments we were getting on our posts and on the university posts, it's, it's unbelievable. And no other group on campus would ever put up with it. And you know, the only group on campus, one group has ever reached out to us since October 7th to partner, to come to our events, wanting to be with us.

42:06You know what group that was? Turning Point USA. Of course. And the university talks about Turning Point USA like they're little, uh, Nazi youth- Yeah... Hitler Youth on our campus, so we can't even partner with them because then we would get so much backlash. But they were the only group that ever reached out to partner with us. Yeah. I'm just tired of it. I'm so sick of it. I, I- I'm really starting to regret that we killed Charlie Kirk. I'm starting to think that wasn't a good idea. [laughs] Poor Charlie Kirk.

42:32I am not, I don't have sort of some sort of smart, you know, call to action item here, except for the except for the fact that, um, what you're saying, I believe it. You know, of course this is happening right now. I mean, that's the worst part. The worst part is that it's become so normalized a- and almost institutionalized and, and formalized, legitimized, that of c- of course this happens. So I, I don't know exactly how, I don't know exactly how we solve that. You know, I, I... number one, uh, one of...

43:00somebody here who's in the, in, in the audience was talking about this idea of taboo, of taboo, and I think that's an interesting concept because what's happened through the, like, uh, rise of sort of, of wokey culture and, and progressive culture is this complete eradication and dismantling and, and, and of this notion of taboo in society. Mm-hmm. Nothing's taboo. You know, like- Nothing... you know, uh, uh, men can become women, women can become men.

43:23You know, uh, uh, uh, Hamas can, can infiltrate Israel and kill 1,200 people and kidnap 250 people, but Israel's the bad guy. Like nothing is taboo. And there, I think there is this, uh, and especially not hate. You know, it's interesting that he's, he's talked about this in, in, in the chat right now, is that there, there are so... one of the few taboos that is, that is out there is, you know, certain kinds of hate language. Like it's taboo to say the N word, it's taboo to say the F word, you know, but it's not taboo to say Zio. So in some ways- Mm-hmm...

43:53you know, we have created this sort of hierarchy of taboo and, and like all these hierarchies when it comes to sort of, uh, uh, progressive culture, Jews are losing. So I do think that there, he has an interesting point that we do need to sort of reclaim in, in, in an intelligent way, this notion of taboo. Like things need to be off limits. Mm-hmm. Things do need to be beyond the pale. Uh, uh, things do need to be, you know, unacceptable in society. And unfortunately, that hasn't happened. It only happens when it comes, when it comes to us as Jews.

44:24And that- Yeah... I think is part of the problem, so. And that's our listener, Erez, who's written about this. Yeah. And Erez, you can dr- if you wanna drop one of your links in the chat 'cause it's really interesting. And I, and I completely agree, but I, I feel like a lot of times it's like too little too late or like the university or, or the powers that be come and say like, "Okay, you can't say this-" Mm-hmm... "anymore." And I'm like, that's not the solution. The solution is for people to feel embarrassed by saying it. Like- And to feel-... that's what taboo is to me. Right. And there's no...

44:52I mean, there is incredible shame and consequence with using, using like hate language that comes, that comes against, you know, certain minorities. And, and again, this goes back to the notion of civil rights. And this is why I think, and this is something I'm really focusing on in my own work, is this idea of civil rights. Because we... people understand what a civil rights movement looks like, you know, because they understand that from African Americans, from women, from LGBTs.

45:16So I, again, it goes back to me thinking that this is really sort of the language we need to begin to explain things in, is like we are, we as Jews are fighting for equality. You know, you wouldn't allow, someone wouldn't be allowed to dism- you know, uh, bash over a sign like this if it pertained to African Americans, there'd be a massive outcry. Somebody wouldn't allow, uh, uh, hate language, uh, that if it was against, you know, trans folks or LGBTs, but it is being allowed against us. These are civil rights violations, my civil rights.

45:45And I think if, again, if we stop justifying, stop trying to appease, stop trying to arm the folks who want to exterminate us, push back with arguments that are very clear, and that most importantly, this more than anything is an identity politics, a, a, a war of identity politics. Hmm. Everything here is about identity politics. You know, Jews as white colonizers, you know, uh, uh, apartheid, e- ethnic cleansing, um, j- um, you know, the notion of Jews as, as, as white.

46:16This is all about identity politics. And the only way to fight identity politics, the only way to fight the language of identity politics is, is with the language of identity politics. Identity politics is the only thing these people understand. But Jews have been, not all, but a large number, and especially our Jewish leadership, have been, um, swindled, you know, bamboozled and, and, and intimidated into refusing to use the language of identity politics because they're afraid of being called racist or Islamophobic. And we have to step away from this timidity. Like the ti- I've been speaking about this for years.

46:57We have to reject this timidity because- Yeah... the enemies who are aligned against us, they have no such timidity. Nothing- Yeah... is off limits to them. Like we need to start thinking as we, as we monitor ourselves and as we try to be measured, is this something the other side would do? If they're not gonna do it, we're not gonna do it. We are n- we should not be held... You know, we keep on saying that we as Jews, we must hold ourselves to a higher standard than the folks who are aligned against us. Fuck that shit. No way. Yes. Look where that got us.

47:27That got us to October se- October 7th and, and the aftermath. You know, if, if, if they're gonna do it, if it's not off limits to them, it should not be off limits to us. Wait, I have an idea for you. Oh, go. What do you want first- Fine... a question or an idea? [laughs] Both. I'll gi- I'll give you the idea. I think you should open up an organization with a bunch of other Black Jews and allies and do this [chuckles] because it sounds stupid when Chaya La and I say this is a civil rights issue.

48:00Yeah, I mean, I, I would love to like stop what I'm doing and open up a civil rights organization and help save our people, and if somebody wants to fund me that, uh, please do. And I'm not, I'm not, not serious about that. But the problem is, it's not about me doing it with other, other Black people. It's about me doing it with other Jews. Yeah. Like Jews, Jews, yes, we need Black folks to step up and support us, but how do we expect them to do it when we, they see so many of our own people not doing it? Like, like there's no...

48:29During BLM, there were no- Even though I'm sure there were some conservative Black people that were just like, "What is this?" But there are no Black people speaking u- up aga- against the movement. So, so, uh, it's not about me finding, you know, other, other Black Jews to do this, other Black people. Number one, we should remove the language of race from this, period, you know? Mm-hmm. But, but okay, yes, we can't- But people res- but people respond to it. You can't, you can't say people- Of course. Of course... don't respond differently to you talking about this than me talking about this.

48:55I, I'm, I, I'm happy to keep on talking because this is something that's extremely personal to me and, and, and, and, and, and, um, something I will always be committed to. Um, but I think again, it's not about what I need. What I need, what we need, what the Jewish people need are our leaders to speak like this. Like I went to an event- Yeah... I went to an event a couple months ago at the home of a, of a very wealthy, very fancy, very lovely and wonderful woman who held an event for Ritchie Torres at her home on the Upper East Side, and it was full of very lovely people like her, but they were all, you know, white Jews, very wealthy, again, lovely people.

49:31Um, but the only people there who were really speaking in the language of what this is really about, and the language of identity politics, the language of, you know, the, the weaponization of intersectionality, were he and I. The only people who weren't white. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "This is the problem." Like us, we can say this, we can say this all we want to u- till, you know, we're blue in the face, but we need the rest of the, the, the, the, the Am Ha'Arets, the rest of, of, of, of the, of the community- Yeah...

49:57to speak like this as well. To say, you know... Again, it goes exactly to what I was saying about the Julian Casablancas example. You know, there were all these folks who attacked Julian Casablancas and his privilege and his audacity, but they attacked the messenger, not the message. The me- the message was that he was basically saying, "Wake up, Black people. Jews are, you know, weaponizing and exploiting your experience for their own privilege."

50:22That is a, a massively incendiary statement that in the hands- That's the thing... of the wrong people could cause serious violence, could cause a race war. It already is. Causing that. So focus on that. Don't focus on Julian Casablancas and his Swiss boarding school. Who gives a, who gives? And, uh- Right... whatever. Yeah, yeah. But, but you know- How significant, how significant is it to you that Mamdani won't go to the Israel Day Parade? What do you think of that? Well, I mean, I never expected him to. No, no, I know. But like- [laughs]...

50:56the fact that the mayor of New York City, who I- You know what? You know what? As far as I know, every other mayor has gone- Yeah... including Bill de Blasio. I have, I have three words for you. Let him have it. You know why? It's the only thing he's got. Mm. This Israel thing- Nobody wants him there anyway... this Israel thing has been the constant, constant since this man was educated in a home of like neo-jihadis. You know, if you look at his political, cultural, and personal evolution, the only consistency besides somewhat of a similar hatred of internationalism, the only constant in his life is anti-Zionism and Israel.

51:37It is the- Mm... only thing he has. That's why he uses it at every single opportunity, 'cause the man ain't got nothing else. Don't forget, we constantly hear about his parents, his Columbia professor father, and his, his, his Hollywood filmmaker mother. He came from unimaginable access and privilege and elitism and education far more than I did. But at the end of the day, that man had to apply as a Black person to get into college. Right. Okay? And I'm saying this as an actual Black person. Despite all that privilege, despite all that access, all that wealth, all of his family connections, the only way he could get into college was to apply as a Black person.

52:21And you know what I've always said that would be really interesting? Because he got into Bowdoin applying as a Black person, which... So he exploited identity politics and affirmative action to get that place in college. But let's think for a second. There was a real Black person who didn't get into college that year. Uh-huh. Because he, Zohir Mamdani, took their place. Let's find that Black person- Mm-hmm... and find out what happened to them, and hear how Zohir Mamdani stole that person's life- Uh-huh...

52:48while he was pretending to be a Black person to getting into college, and he had all of the opportunity and access to get into by himself. Oh, God. So that's what I'm saying. What do you think of all the Jews that support him? I mean, what, what can we think? I mean, they make me wanna cry. Yeah. It's- I feel... When I think about these people, it's, it a- it, it anguishes me. Who makes you wanna cry more, the people who support everything he believes in, or the people who say, "You know, I don't agree with him about Israel or Jews, but I like s- this and this and this"?

53:21Like, both make me wanna cry, but different reasons. Yeah. For me, it's about, you know... I had this beef with this, this woman who's on Instagram. Um, I'm not gonna say her name because apparently she got all this hate, hate, hate, hate. But she's like, uh, all these hate messages and, like, threats against her children and blah, blah, blah. But, um, you know, she's like one of these like, you know, as a Jew pro-Mamdani Jews. And, um, when I challenged her, she called me racist, not realizing that, like, my face does not match my name. And- [laughs]...

53:48I was very outraged about it. But as I said, I said to her, I said to her in a, in a video message, I was like, "You know what? Yeah, you, people like you, they make me want to cry, and they make me feel like we have failed as a people." And that, um, there is... That is the most anguishing thing about this whole moment are, are, are Jews like that. And what to do about them? Um, well, again, I think we need to start speaking in levels, ideas of civil rights, because I think that they...

54:21Because they're so invested in woke ideology, I think that, I think that there's something that they could possibly understand. But it needs to be, they need to be reminded over and over again, like when they support folks like, like Zohir Mamdani, you know, he supports a worldview that wants to kill them, and they're not exempt from that. And I, I wish I could see rabbis delivering that at their S- Saturday sermons. "Wake up J- wake up, you know, sideline or, or, uh, as a Jew Jews. You may think that you are exempt from this.

54:53You may think that this doesn't apply to you, but you cannot control it." And this is a perfect way- To show alignment with other minorities, just like a Black person can't control racism. But they have to not be afraid to use this language because it's the only thing these people understand. This is a war of identity politics, and the only way to fight it is with the language of identity politics. Uh-huh. Ugh. Well, does anybody have any questions, by the way? I'm gonna talk about fun stuff. Yeah. Do you wanna talk about 90 Day Fiance? That's all I'm watching right now.

55:26[laughs] It's a g- it's a great escape- escapism, by the way. But yeah, it's- I know... it's amazing that we still keep hav- you know, have to keep having these conversations over and over and over again. And it's- Do you feel like it's, do you feel like it's getting worse, David, in the journalist space? Or... It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's not getting better. I mean, look at, look at New York Magazine with that ridiculous, that ridiculous- Ugh... uh, Amal Alamuddin and, and- Nauseous... I, I wish my life was back to the way it was. It's like- Nauseous...

55:55you know, the New York... The, the New Yorker has gone. You know, we see the, uh, the, uh, elevation of Hasan Piker and the, and the, and- Yeah... in some ways the, um, challenge elevation. I mean, the real question is, will Hasan Piker be at the Met Gala tomorrow? Because he's in Condé world. He was in GQ magazine. He went to- Oh... the Vanity Fair party. So will he be at the Met Gala tomorrow? I mean, he looks the part, that's for sure. He's a hunky guy, you know? And if, if he, if he does, what will be the response? Again, I think Mamdani was very clever to bow out. That is one of the s- s...

56:23He could, and he's going to pretend it's because he doesn't wanna be, you know, supporting this, this, this orgy of elitism, but it's, it's, it's more than that. He doesn't wanna put himself out there against, you know, uh, uh, uh, the kind of scrutiny that he's been- Mm... you know, uh, uh, has been, uh, uh, he's been exempt from. Is he not gonna be there because of Jeff Bezos? Because it's, like, a capitalist thing, do you think? I think I, I think that may be wh- why he won't be there, is he's, he's, he's, he knows that he would actually be far too comfortable there, and he would probably let his guard down and we would see a real true side of him.

57:00Um, and also he probably wants to hide his wife. I think it's more about the wife and her horrible portrayal of, of Jew hatred and anti-Semitism. Mm-hmm. She'd probably wear a dress that says, like, you know, whatever, Global Intifada. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So- She's awful. I mean, it's unbelievable that she is the first lady- But they're, they've already-... of New York... I don't, I don't wanna say they've won, but I feel like they are already mainstream. This is all mainstream. Hasan Piker is mainstream.

57:25I mean, and not a- not accepted by everyone, but when, I guess when I say mainstream, I mean, like, in culture- Yeah... and in media. Well, this is actually something I've been thinking about as well, and we should begin to really think about this, is that the cr- the creeping sort of Islamis- Islamicization and Arabization of the culture is, um, something that is, is very much happening. It's not, I don't quite would say it's happened yet, but the signs are there.

57:52You know, I was, it was interesting to see during, uh, Ramadan and sort of like the way in which, you know, iftar and, and, and all the sort of totems of Ramadan sort of were inserted into the everyday media in a way that got very casual and very, like, appropriate. But, and, and not that it shouldn't do, not that we shouldn't be talking about these things. Uh, again, we saw, uh, Mamdani holding these iftars every day, every s- every day or so at, at, at Go- at Go- at Gracie Mansion, and the way this language of Islam and Arabism is now being, you know, inserted and, and, um, into the culture.

58:28And it's, and what's interesting about it is that it's... Katrina, since you now see more Arab stories and Islamic stories being told in Hollywood and things like that. And what it's doing is that it's taking the place or it's sort of assuming the next step from, say, how Black stories or LGBT or trans stories- Mm-hmm... have been told. But more importantly, I think what it's beginning to do is, is, uh, erode and, and, um, to scrape away, uh, Jewish culture and Jewish prominence.

58:58Because what we're seeing as we see the ascent of this sort of pro-Islam, pro-Arab moment, what we're seeing is the erosion of, of J- of, of, of Jewish cultural authority and Jewish cultural presence and Jewish cultural prominence. Now, we could say that perhaps Jews were over-represented, you know, compared to other groups. Well, okay, you know, we were- We're apologizing for that. We have to apologize for that. But, um, but the, in, in parallel with this comes discrimination. It's like this is what's different. It's like we saw the rise of sort of like the trans moment after, like, the l- after the gay moment, after the Black moment.

59:36But it wasn't at, at the consequence or it wasn't, um, at, uh, it wasn't, uh, at the expense of those other minorities. Whereas this new rise in Islamicization, Arabization is directly at the expense of Jews. And we need to, again, we need to acknowledge this. Like, before we can even begin to find solutions, somebody needs to say this, and this is the problem is, like, all of these institutions who are supposed to do it, they're not saying what they need to say. Wow. Correct.

1:00:06Ugh. Well, what are we gonna do? How are we saving the world? Uh, we're gonna keep talking. We're not gonna shut up. Um- We should make a flotilla. A flotilla. Ooh, that's a good idea. I feel like- Yeah... they get a lot of good attention, no? And everybody's having sex on them, apparently. Yeah. So you gotta be careful. And they're doing, and they're doing cocaine. [laughs] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh my God, it's so, it's so dumb. What we need to do is win Eurovision. Yes. Well, that, that's possible. You and- I think so... three other people care. I hate to say it. You know what?

1:00:36You're so- You're, you're one of four people... America-centric. Yeah. You don't even know what's going on in Europe, and that is Eurovision. No. You care about Eurovision. I say we should all turn to the Torah, and then that's it. We're gonna get, somehow we'll get there. Torahvision. [laughs] To predict- I will say that my, my international outlook kind of stops at Eurovision. I've, I lived in Israel for a very long time, and I've been on a lot of Euros, but I actually have zero interest in Eurovision. [laughs] Oh my gosh. I'm, yeah. It's, it's...

1:01:03I, I will say one thing, and I really wanted to make a clip, but I don't know how to do it and I don't have time, but- It, it is, you know, there, there are a bunch of countries that pulled out because Israel is in it, and that's so awful, blah, blah, and they have terrible security, and they can't go out, and it's just the worst. But I have watched-- My YouTube feed is serving me dozens of, um, reaction videos from rando Eurovision fans to the Israeli song, and they fucking love it because it's a banger, and the guy is really, really good.

1:01:35So it's such an interesting way. I mean, they're not gonna win 'cause the judge- they're-- they give judges too much power because last year Israel won the televote, and they were annoyed by that, so now they're giving more, you know, taking the power from the people and giving it to the elites. Yeah. Um, but the people, uh, at least the commentators seem to love the song, so, you know. And that's- Yeah, it is... from Hashem, Chayla. That's from Hashem. [laughs] Love it, love or some Hashem. Yes, exactly. [laughs] There's a great song in, from the '90s called it's "Min Hashamayim." It's from heaven, right?

1:02:08It's Miami Boys Choir and, uh- They should do Eurovision one year. Yeah, exactly. They'd bring the house down. Well, thank you for- They're not, they're not gay enough, unfortunately. That's true. They are not gay enough. Well, thank you so much for your time today, really- Thank you... to take-- I know you have family, and it's really nice that you took time. I have to go give, I have to go give my boys a shower. I know. Good luck with that. Wait, before you give them a shower, tell our listeners where they can find you. Yeah, yeah. You can find me on Substack. My Substack is called Counterintuitive, so just Counterintuitive.

1:02:39Substack, I'm sure you'll find it. Or on Instagram or Twitter, but more on the Instagram. I'm @kaufman, K-A-U-F-M-A-N, David NYC, @kaufmandavidnyc. Mm. Feel free to say hello and support me. And if any of you folks out there want to fund a badass, radical, uh, pro-Zionistic, uh, save the Jews organization, I, I am, I volunteer, and I'm not joking. Good. All right. Let's do it. Let's start crowdfunding for this. All right. [laughs] Exactly. Bye, David. All right. Thank you. Bye, everyone. Good night. Good night. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Let me turn this off.