Part 5: Bane

0:02JACK: [Music] Hell is other people. Jean-Paul Sartre said that, and I’m glad he did. It’s one of those truths that stings because it’s both simple and inescapable. Sartre wasn't talking about hatred or conflict. He was talking about the way we're seen, how other people become mirrors that reflect us back to ourselves. See, Sartre believed that we don't fully know who we are without the gaze of others. You can think you're smart or kind or brave, but if no one else sees it, it starts to feel unreal, like a tree falling in an empty forest.

0:43Does it even matter if no one hears it? When others don't see you for who you believe you are, it creates this void, this chasm between your identity and their perception of it. That’s where the isolation creeps in, the loneliness, the self-doubt. But here's the trap; if your self-worth depends on someone else’s validation, you're no longer free. You're shackled to their gaze, a prisoner of their judgment. You bend yourself to fit their expectations, hoping they’ll see you, hoping they’ll understand you, and when they don't, it’s devastating.

1:25You can feel invisible, like you don't exist. So, there’s this inescapable tension where one side is pulling at us to be authentic to ourselves and not care what anyone thinks of us, and the other side is pulling us towards wanting validation, wanting to be seen, confirmation that who we think we are we really are. Sartre says it’s impossible to escape this tension because it’ll always exist. We need to learn how to manage it and live with it without it enslaving us.

1:57Zachariah’s life is proof to what that tension looks like to an extreme. He’s so far beyond what society can accept that he has to disappear and never let anyone see him. To survive he has to be invisible, but in the shadows he’s still choosing who he is moment by moment in spite of the silence. Because for some people, the point isn't to be seen by the world. It’s to keep carving your name into it even when no one’s looking. [To Zachariah] So, where did you end up that night when you left Nick’s apartment?

2:42ZACHARIAH: I went over to my plug’s apartment. JACK: Your plug? ZACHARIAH: Yeah. You know what a plug is? JACK: I thought it was — it’s not a plumber, is it? It’s someone who plugs your toilet? ZACHARIAH: The fuck? No. A plug is a drug dealer. JACK: Oh, okay. ZACHARIAH: I went over there and asked if I could stay there for a few days, and he said okay. But yeah, I just basically smoked — I think I smoked seven grams of pot that first night, and I’ve never been that high in my life, no joke.

3:13I was stoned for five straight days. JACK: You were just like, fuck it, let’s get high. ZACHARIAH: Yeah, pretty much. I didn't want to think about life at all. I watched movies, ate pizza, and just turned off for a while. JACK: Okay, what happens after those five days? ZACHARIAH: I saw that my plug was buying drugs off the dark web, so we connected over that. I showed him what I know and he showed me what he knows, and we started talking about the dark web more.

3:42He showed me this place that he found where pedophiles prey on young boys, and I thought, how fucking awful is that? It made me so mad that some old-ass dudes were going on this site looking to rape kids. But this guy didn't want me to stay there for long, so I had to leave and find another place to go. The only people I knew were junkies, so I asked them if they know of any place, and one of them said that they heard about this old man that died in some neighborhood, and they wanted to see what the house was like after he died.

4:16So, me and this other guy go, and yeah, it’s a nice house. Nobody’s home. The house is secluded, too. Like, there’s no one around for a while to watch you or see what you're doing. We look around and we find a window that we could slide open, and we crawled in. Yeah, it’s nice inside, too. It was like an old man’s house. But there was furniture in there, and the guy who lived there died somewhere. I guess he just had no family or anything to take care of his house after he died.

4:49So, it was just sitting there doing nothing. We decided to sleep there. JACK: You just took over an empty house. ZACHARIAH: Yeah. JACK: Did the house have electricity on? ZACHARIAH: Yes, at first it did. JACK: For real? ZACHARIAH: Yeah, but there was no internet. We didn't even get any neighbors’ Wi-Fi or anything. JACK: How long did you stay there? ZACHARIAH: I’m still living here right now. This is where I’m talking to you from. But the electricity stopped working after a while.

5:22Remember I told you that I jumped the electric meter earlier? Well, this is where I did that. I’m getting — we're getting free electricity here. JACK: [Laughs] I used to think that was a big deal, and now I’m like, that’s such a minor part of your story. Okay, how long have you been there? ZACHARIAH: About a year now. A few people live here with me, too. We even have dogs here. JACK: So, how old are you now? ZACHARIAH: I just turned eighteen. JACK: Okay, then — I’m afraid to ask.

6:00ZACHARIAH: Go ahead. JACK: What happened in the last year living in this house? ZACHARIAH: [Music] Yeah, this is where it gets good. This — we're finally at the part that I e-mailed you about. This is why I contacted you to begin with, is just to talk about what we're gonna talk about next. JACK: Does the story get darker? ZACHARIAH: Yeah, I think so. JACK: Goddamn. I don't know if I could take anymore. We're not at the end, huh? ZACHARIAH: Yeah, no.

6:28There is a lot more to talk about. JACK: Jesus Christ, dude. Okay, give me a minute. ZACHARIAH: [Laughs] JACK: Life is treacherous. Sometimes when you look at the chaos of the world, it’s easy to feel superior, to walk around thinking, look at these idiots. I’m glad I’m not like them. But that feeling, that sense of superiority, it’s a trap. It’s a dangerous, isolating trap. Here's the paradox; if you feel superior to others, you crave their confirmation that you're above them.

7:13You need them to see it, to acknowledge it. But how can they confirm it when you've already decided that their opinion doesn't matter? If you think someone is beneath you, their validation means nothing to you. Their respect holds no weight. So, this belief in your superiority, it’s a house of cards built on air. It can never stand because it relies on something you've already dismissed. The more you cling to that feeling, the more you cut yourself off, superiority doesn't make you stronger.

7:49It makes you lonelier. It isolates you. It turns the world into a place full of people whose voices you refuse to hear. The superior person must either accept that unbearable loneliness or give up the illusion altogether. It’s only when you stop fearing the world’s opinion that you can finally be free and stand tall in it. This is Low, Part 5, Bane. [To Zachariah] Okay, I’m ready. What happens next? ZACHARIAH: Well, I continue selling drugs, obviously.

8:31But by now I was just purchasing them on Wall Street and then selling it locally. JACK: Wall Street, that’s a darknet marketplace, isn't it? ZACHARIAH: Yeah, yeah. JACK: So, you finally were living the dream that you wanted of buying drugs from the dark web and then selling it locally just like that guy was doing in Russia. ZACHARIAH: Yeah, exactly. I had runners working for me. JACK: Do people listen to a kid like that? ZACHARIAH: Well, when you speak to them in a thick Russian accent, they don't question you.

8:58JACK: Dude, don't tell me you wrote a fucking crypto-boom and this story ends up with you becoming a millionaire with Lambos and shit. ZACHARIAH: No, fuck. I don't even have an ID. I can't even buy a Lambo even if I was a millionaire. JACK: Okay. ZACHARIAH: [Music] Someone at the house knew that I would go on the dark web to buy drugs, and they mentioned that I should watch out for pedos on there. Again, I was starting to get angry again about the pedos being on there and shit.

9:26So, I went to that website that I learned about where pedophiles go, and I just chilled there for a long time watching what people do there. It fucking made me so angry that I made an account acting like I was thirteen-year-old boy. I used my real voice because I wasn't much older than that, and it was easy for me to manipulate them into thinking I was just thirteen. I started talking to people in private messages and stuff. JACK: Wait, so, tell me some of the stuff you were saying.

9:57ZACHARIAH: I first had to come up with a name. I don't want to use my real name, of course, so I just put my name as David on there, and to make it look like I’m a real person, I made a Facebook account for David. I just found pictures of some kid playing baseball, and I put those photos on there. Then I would go on the forum and just act like an innocent boy who didn't know any better. JACK: Oh, this is ridiculous. Why would a young boy even be on these dark web forums?

10:22Nobody believes this, do they? ZACHARIAH: Well, I created this story where my dad was an alcoholic and I needed to find a way to escape, and I missed having a fatherly figure who actually wanted me. Then I asked if anybody knows of a place I can go where someone will actually love me. JACK: Hm. ZACHARIAH: People believe that shit, let me tell you. People will believe anything they want if they're desperate. You just have to find that one person who’s looking at you through their blind spot, and then you could just take them over.

10:53You make them feel like they are in control and they have an advantage over you. The trick is to get them to come to you. If you approach them, they probably won't reply. But if it’s their idea to talk to you, then they can't resist it. So, for me, I would bait them and say things that weren't true so that they would have to correct me. Like, I would talk about baseball but I would say the wrong team name sometimes. Like, I said once the San Francisco Padres, and somebody corrected me and they told me what the right team name is.

11:22Then I told them, oh, I’d love to go see one of those games. Have you ever been to one of those games? After a little while I’d start getting private messages. You know, it sucks to say, but if they had someone in real life that they could take advantage of, they wouldn't be here. So, these are the ones who are really desperate, and when someone is really desperate like that, it’s easy to deceive them and make them believe whatever it is they already want to believe.

11:52JACK: I’m gonna take the devil’s advocate here for a second. But how do you know these guys were pedos and wanted sex? Did they explicitly ask about it? Because if you're just talking about wanting a father figure and — maybe some guy’s like, oh, you know what? I’ll help this kid. They just — they might not have any intentions to do evil shit, you know? ZACHARIAH: Oh, it’s obvious. The whole site is just child porn and sick shit. It’s all people talk about.

12:17You wouldn't accidentally end up here and think that you're just chatting with someone randomly. You go here for that specific reason. JACK: Okay, so you said some people were private-messaging you. ZACHARIAH: I was really just making them feel that they were part of my life, you know? I was just using their blindness for my gain. So, guys were talking to me on there, acting friendly and shit. One day I say to this guy, I really want to meet you.

12:44Are there any cool parks by you? He was responding, but he wasn't quite ready to meet. So, then a few days later I said, my dad just beat the shit out of me today and I really want to run away. These pedophiles, they really want sex. That’s all they want. They don't feel bad about getting it from little boys. So, he was interested and offered to meet. JACK: Okay. So, did you meet up with this guy? ZACHARIAH: [Music] Yep, I sure did. JACK: God, you're crazy.

13:26ZACHARIAH: I brought two other guys with me. We pull up to his house. We park a few doors down so we're not obvious. I told them to wait in the car, because he’s expecting just me. But as soon as I go in, you come in right after me, too. So, I go and I grab a bat from the car, and I’m holding it behind my back so that he can't see it as I walk up to the door. I knock on the door, and I see him look through the window. I say, I’m here, I’m here. He opens the door, and yeah, it was him, the same guy who was sending me photos online, some old white dude in his fifties.

13:58He said, hey, it’s nice to meet you. He opened the door and let me in. I looked around him, and he had condoms on the table and a bunch of alcohol. He was only wearing underwear. At that point I knew without a doubt this guy was expecting to rape a thirteen-year-old boy. He was smiling at me. I felt my body tense up. I felt a primal feeling. I thought through the whole scenario in my head what it would be like if I was just an innocent thirteen-year-old boy who came over and what it would be like to be raped by this old fucker, and all that pain that it would cause me for the rest of my life.

14:40I experienced all that fucking pain in a moment’s time. Suddenly it felt like my whole fucking life was on the line. That’s the primal feeling I had, to survive at any cost. Here I am in this situation where this guy is going to take big fucking advantage of me, and I can do something about it. I can fight back, and I am fucking ready. My eyes widened. I took a breath, and I said out loud, okay. He went to shut the door. I pulled the bat out from behind me and I waited for him to turn back around, and he still had that smile on his face.

15:19I smacked him right in the face with the bat. He bent over in pain, and I pushed him down with my foot. He was holding his face, screaming. His whole body was twitching and squirming rapidly. He instantly knew he fucked up, and this is all his own doing. The other two guys come bursting through the door, ready to fight. They see me standing over this fucker, and they just freeze and look at me. One of them said, what the fuck? I told them, go fuck this place up.

15:48They just started smashing everything. The old guy started trying to say something, but he was scared shitless, so he was just stuttering and mumbling. I bent down and I said, oh yeah? Oh, really? You're sorry? Too late, motherfucker. I would hit him again with the bat, and I just put my foot right on his face and held him down. I could hear the other two guys breaking shit all through the house, glass busting, cabinets smashed. They smashed the TV, they smashed his lamps.

16:14Every time he tried to say, no, stop, or move or something, I would just fucking hit him again. He was laying there shivering in fear, and it was great to watch. He was trembling so badly. His face was bloody. He was crying. But I wouldn't let him talk. I didn't let him say a fucking word. I just hit him every time he opened his mouth. One of my friends got out a marker and wrote ‘pedo’ real big on the walls, and they opened up the condoms and threw them around.

16:38I think one of them put the fucking TV remote in a condom, and then they started taking shit. They took his wallet, they took all his cash, they took his laptop, they took his phone. They looked for drugs in his medicine cabinet. Then I took off the rest of his clothes, and I pulled down my pants, and I pissed on that fucker’s face right in his living room. I brought some handcuffs, and I handcuffed him. We're dragging him into the bathroom. We threw him in the bathtub.

17:07We tied a rope around him and then turned on the hot water full blast. We smashed up the walls on the way out and left. We ran to the car with all his stuff and sped off, and that was it. JACK: Goddamn. How does your story just keep getting more intense? This is insane. ZACHARIAH: Yeah, it is insane. JACK: So, what did you do with all the stuff you stole from him? Did you sell it? ZACHARIAH: No, we kept it. We saved all the shit from the laptop and then wiped it.

17:38JACK: What do you mean saved his shit? ZACHARIAH: Well, these pedo forums will warn you about users, you know? So like, if the forum sees that if two people are gonna meet and then they're both quiet afterwards, you can guess that maybe one guy got arrested or one of them was a fed or something like that. So, we found his log-in details on the forum and we used his username and password in order to keep him active on this pedo forum. We even wrote for him, ‘it was great seeing you today’ to make it look like I am a real thirteen-year-old boy.

18:09JACK: Dang, so there’s a rating system at this place? ZACHARIAH: No, not a rating system. It’s more like a reputation thing, you know? JACK: Well, that whole thing probably gave you a sort of high, didn't it? ZACHARIAH: I don't know about that. It’s not like I do this for fun. It’s more like a dark and ugly thing that I have to do. Like, clearly these monsters are out there preying on kids, and if I don't stop this guy, who else will? Someone needs to do it.

18:40Why not me, you know? But I’m dealing with pure fucking evil here. This guy was sick, you know? The work I have to fucking do, it’s a lot of work. I have to drive two states away and show up to a stranger’s house who’s expecting to butt-fuck me, and if I fuck up, I might get raped, you know? Like, that ain’t easy shit to step into, you know? The whole time you gotta keep an eye out for neighbors or cops or something. It’s a lot of fucking work. JACK: Two states away?

19:05You drove that far? ZACHARIAH: Yeah. We drove six hours to beat the shit out of that guy. JACK: I’ve heard of people baiting pedos online, and then when they get enough evidence on them, they try… ZACHARIAH: They try to blackmail them? JACK: Yeah, yeah. They say, give me $500 or I’m calling the cops. ZACHARIAH: $500? Fuck that. We took everything this guy had, including his kitchen set and plates and silverware and stuff. Shit, the computer I’m talking to you on right now is the one that we took from that guy.

19:37It’s a MacBook Air. JACK: Dang, that’s a nice one. So, is this the one and only time you did this? ZACHARIAH: Well, I wasn't sure if I ever wanted to do that again. [Music] Like I said, it’s a lot of work and it’s risky as fuck. I could have gotten butt-fucked. But after people saw that nice reply from him, more guys wanted to meet me. I was like, fuck, now shit’s getting real. Three guys were messaging me now every day asking how my day is going and showing me video games and other shit.

20:10One of them sent me a dick pic. So, at that point I felt like I had a responsibility to do something. I know these guys are out there. I know these guys are going to rape a little boy. If you were seeing someone raping a little boy, you'd stop them, right? So, what’s the difference when you see someone who’s trying to get together with that little boy to rape him? You should want to stop that, too. That’s what I felt like I had to do. JACK: Fuck, man.

20:43Okay, so, what happens at the next one? ZACHARIAH: This guy was one state over this time, and he was willing to meet. It was clear he wanted sex. It was me and the same two guys again that drove like four hours to get there. JACK: Tell me about this long-ass drive. What are you guys doing on the way? Like, are you guys just gripping the steering wheel super tight and just — eyes are locked on the road, quiet as can be, blasting, I don't know, Paint It Black on the radio?

21:14ZACHARIAH: Nah, man. It’s chill. We listened to rap music, we smoked some joints to calm our nerves, and we just talked about stupid shit on the way there. It’s only the last fifteen minutes that we start planning what to do. JACK: Okay, so, was it the same plan? ZACHARIAH: Yeah. I go in first and they follow right behind me. JACK: Got it. Okay. Go on. ZACHARIAH: I mean, it’s really the same thing. [Music] I get there, the guy opens the door, I go in.

21:44This time I see a bunch of porn magazines all over the place and some bags of candy and soda and alcohol. The guy looked at me and said, so, can I make you a drink? He’s all happy to see me and shit. I said, I’m not thirsty. I pulled out the bat and I fucking jammed it into his stomach. He bent over and I grabbed his hair and pulled him to the ground. I said, so you like fucking little boys, huh? He started yelling back, no, no. I swung the bat to hit him, and he thought it was just me, so he grabbed the bat with his hand and kicked me in the leg.

22:23Just then, my two friends came in and they saw me struggling with him, and they just started beating the shit out of him, stomping on him and shit, and he gave up fighting back after that. He just started screaming, no, no, no, please, please, no. My friends got him under control, and I started going through the house. The motherfucker had condoms in the bedroom and lube ready and shit, more porn magazines in there. I broke all the mirrors in his bathroom and some lights, and I was going through his drawers looking for money.

22:51I didn't find any, but going through his shit, I realized this guy lives alone. There’s only guy’s clothes here. So, I said, fuck it, let’s take all his clothes. So, I grabbed a trash bag and I threw every item of clothing he has in it. I even took all the clothes he was wearing off and I threw it in there. I took the towels, I took the sheets. Fuck, I took everything I could that I thought he might be able to cover himself with. I got out a big permanent marker and I wrote ‘pedo’ real big on his forehead and on all the walls and shit.

23:20We tied him up and dragged him into the bathtub and turned on the hot water. He was totally naked in the shower. We jammed a chair into the door handle, and it kept the bathroom door closed. Then we just kept fucking the place up. We took his laptop, his wallet, his TV that time. We took so much shit. I think that was the place we took the dishwasher from. JACK: What? A dishwasher? ZACHARIAH: ‘Cause the one at our place was old and broken, so we needed a new one, and why not take this motherfucker’s?

23:50JACK: Goddamn. ZACHARIAH: We took his alcohol, too. On the way out I opened up one of the condoms and I put it on the doorknob of the front door. Then we just loaded all our shit up in the car and flew outta there. JACK: Wait, so, is this your signature thing you do? Like, you always lock the guy in the bathroom and put hot water on him? ZACHARIAH: I mean, I don't think about it. It just makes sense at the time. JACK: What do you mean? ZACHARIAH: Like, we don't want this guy to simply lick his wounds and go back to his life.

24:21We want to embarrass him and expose him to the other people he knows. So, if we lock him in the bathroom and he can't get out, then he’s gonna have to get someone else to help him out, maybe his wife, his kids, his neighbor, the police. They’ll be like, what the fuck happened to you? He’ll have a lot of explaining to do. This guy had to get help naked, which is very fitting, if you ask me. JACK: What did you do with that guy’s clothes? ZACHARIAH: His clothes?

24:49Oh, yeah, we just threw them out the window on the way home. We didn't want that shit. JACK: Okay, strange question; have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange? ZACHARIAH: It sounds familiar, but no. JACK: I just wonder when you're in someone’s house smashing shit up, beating the shit out of them, are you singing a song? ZACHARIAH: A song? No. Wait, you think I’m the Joker or something? That sounds creepy as fuck. JACK: It is creepy, yes, I know, but you were — you're insane and I have no idea what you're gonna say next.

25:22ZACHARIAH: True, true. I’ve watched some of these pedophile hunters on YouTube. You know they’ll meet the person in a restaurant to confront them or something, and you hear the pedophile start begging, please, I have a daughter, I would never want to hurt her like that; trust me. They’ll deny why they're even there and shit. Even if this guy goes to jail, the only thing that it’s gonna do is it’s gonna make him more desperate. It’s not like he’s gonna go to jail as some gay pedophile and then come out a straight guy only interested in older women.

25:50They're still gonna have this sick thought in their mind and that sick intent of doing something to some little kid. So, fuck that, you know? JACK: Do you get any thrill from this at all? ZACHARIAH: I mean, some of it is pretty entertaining. Like, when you go up to a pedo’s house and they think they're gonna have sex with you and they're so happy and blind to how evil they are, and he’s so happy to take advantage of this little boy, and then I turn up, and when they see my bat, their expression changes.

26:28Yeah, huh? It’s a whole different story now, huh? They start making up bullshit, and it’s entertaining to watch them realize that they fucked up, and that’s nobody’s fault but their own. This was their decision, their choice, and they know they fucked up. They might be too sick to even understand that, and they think they're the victim, but they're not. They were going to victimize me, and I just showed them what it’s like to get fucked. JACK: So, did this become your thing then, pedo-baiting and then pedo-batting?

27:03ZACHARIAH: Yeah, me and some of my friends did it again and again. JACK: Have you ever baited a pedophile but then when you went to his house there was more than one person there? ZACHARIAH: [Music] Oh, yeah, yeah. JACK: Okay, what happened there? ZACHARIAH: So, after we did this like five times, I was starting to feel more loose, I guess, like less cautious, let’s say. So, it’s just me and one other guy that went. He was seventeen. This was actually two months ago.

27:36I brought a pocketknife and he brought a BB gun, like a pistol one. We drove to this guy’s house, and there was a van in the driveway, like one of those creepy vans. So, we park a few doors down, and it’s the same plan; I’ll go in first, you come in as soon as you see the door start to shut. I get out and I walk to the house with my pocketknife in my pocket, and I get up to the door, and I look through the window, and I see four guys. They're all like forty-year-old white men in this house.

28:12One guy is holding duct tape. Another guy’s getting a chair set up in the room, and another guy was setting up a camera, and there was a laptop with porn playing on it. JACK: What the fuck? ZACHARIAH: Yeah, these people — fuck it, they weren't messing around. I’m like, fuck. Just standing outside, I was already tensing up. I knew some shit was coming. This wasn't right. Suddenly a guy opened the door, and he had a black ski mask on, and I didn't even hesitate.

28:44I just took my pocketknife right out, and I stabbed him in the fucking leg. The other guys saw it and started coming after me, so I turned around and ran outta there. I’m not about to get gang-banged by three fucking pedos. My friend comes around the corner, but I yelled, get the fuck outta here! The guys were chasing us, so I grabbed my friend’s BB gun and I tried shooting them with it while I was running, but I fucking missed entirely. I was so scared shitless.

29:06I didn't want to get raped. But the BB gun was enough to scare them off a little bit from chasing us, and we were able to get to our car and get outta there. JACK: Damn, that’s gotta get your adrenaline racing. ZACHARIAH: Yeah, it sure did. I was shaking after that. I could barely think straight. I don't think I’ve ever smoked so many cigarettes in my life. As soon as I was done with one, I immediately lit another. I had to smoke pot just to calm down.

29:29But then I couldn't think what to do, so I took some Adderall to plan out what the next moves were. JACK: Oh, my god. ZACHARIAH: I was thinking, these guys have clearly done this before. They were prepared and they knew what they were doing. How many kids have they done this to? This shit’s got to stop. Clearly no one else can stop them, so I better do it, and I better do it now. [Music] So, I called up more guys to come out, and we waited for them to show up.

29:57Four more guys came with us, so there were six of us, and we had bats and knives and BB guns and shit. Now it’s like 4:00 a.m., and we all drive back over there. We turn onto their street, and all four of those guys are in the driveway loading up their van with shit. As soon as we saw them, we sped right up to them and we all jumped out and started beating the shit out of them. They weren't prepared. They didn't have any weapons. They were tired.

30:22That one guy that I stabbed with a knife, well, his leg was already fucked up, so he couldn't move very well. He was the first to go down. The other guys tried to fight us, but with five of us with bats and knives and BB guns against three of them with no weapons, we beat the shit out of them pretty easy. It was vicious. Everyone was on edge so much and we were just racing with adrenaline. We were hitting these guys really hard; kicks to the face, bats to the head and knees.

30:47It was bloody. Two guys got knocked out cold. After we fucked them up real bad, we dragged them into the house and we looked around. The house was fucking weird. It was like an empty house. No one lived there. There was only one chair in the middle of the room. We looked around. There was no pictures on the walls. There were no personal items in the whole place. We checked their pockets. Nobody had anything in their pockets except the keys to the van.

31:12So, we just left them there and closed the door and left. Since we had the keys to the van, I hopped in it and took it. We took their van. JACK: How badly injured were those guys? ZACHARIAH: Honestly, I don't even know if they're still alive. I don't think I fucking killed any of them, but we beat the shit out of them so bad that I wouldn't be surprised if one died. JACK: So brutal, man. ZACHARIAH: Fuck those guys. They were gonna forcefully rape a fourteen-year-old boy and film it.

31:45That is fucked up. They were watching porn when I looked through the window. They were gonna duct-tape some kid down and jerk off to him while he’s getting raped. JACK: Did you take their wallets? ZACHARIAH: They didn't have any. We checked all of them. We always take the guy’s wallet so that we can have leverage on him, you know? Like, he knows that we know who he is, and we sometimes look up more about what he does and shit. But these guys didn't have any ID on them or anything.

32:09So, we took pictures of them and we put their faces on forums to see if anyone could tell us who these guys were, but no one knew them. JACK: What was in the van? ZACHARIAH: They had cameras, computers, duct tape, ropes, tripods, condoms. They had a professional camera, too. It was like, worth $2,000. I still have it. They had surveillance equipment like mics and shit. JACK: Was anything on the cameras? ZACHARIAH: No, it was blank. They had a 64-gigabyte SD card and there was nothing on it.

32:41The laptops were blank, too, not logged into any site or had any data on it at all. These guys were some kind of professional fucking pedophiles. I’ve never seen anyone plan this shit out as much as they did. It was fucking sick. JACK: What did you do with the van? ZACHARIAH: I dumped it in the water. JACK: What, you drove it into a lake or something? ZACHARIAH: A river. JACK: I mean, fuck me. It’s worth money. You just drove it right into a river?

33:10ZACHARIAH: Yep. JACK: You could have sold it for drugs. ZACHARIAH: I didn't want some shit with semen stains on it and shit. I was still stressed out from looking through that window and seeing four guys there. I didn't want to deal with that shit. JACK: Goddamn. ZACHARIAH: We came back to that house two days later and it was completely empty. Nothing at all was there, as if it never happened. JACK: How many times have you done this, like baited a pedophile online and then went to their house and beat them up?

33:39ZACHARIAH: I don't know. I don't keep count. Twelve, eleven, thirteen, something like that. JACK: And you keep all the data from all the computers you take. ZACHARIAH: Yeah, I put it all on a hard drive before wiping it. You know, if I ever get caught, I’d be in big fucking trouble because I have evidence of like, fifteen crimes on here. JACK: Did the cop — did you ever have the cops come after you or a run-in with the cops or anything related with them in all this?

34:05ZACHARIAH: No, no. I figure the people who did this, they knew we have their wallet and computer and shit and we have evidence of them being pedos, and they don't want that attention. So, I don't think any of them ever filed police reports. JACK: Have you ever told anyone all this before? ZACHARIAH: No, never. The only people who know about this are the guys who go with me, and even they don't know the whole story. JACK: It must feel weird keeping such big secrets from the world.

34:32ZACHARIAH: Yeah, you know, what’s fucking weird is I forget my name sometimes. I’ve been going by fake names for so long I can barely remember the name I was born with, you know? If you called me that, I would just ignore you, not thinking you're talking about me. JACK: So, if you've never told anyone this story, why are you telling me now? ZACHARIAH: Hm, my friend told me about your show and I listened to it, and I liked it. I liked how it was edited.

34:56I like the way you tell stories. I don't know, it’s different. It’s not like anything I’ve ever heard before, and you really seem to care and listen to your guests. I can't explain. JACK: Okay, but I mean, you've never told anyone. Now you are. ZACHARIAH: Huh, well, I don't think I’m gonna live much longer. JACK: What do you mean? ZACHARIAH: It’s just the life that I’m living is dangerous in general. The risks are so high what I do, and I’m either gonna die soon or get arrested or go to jail forever.

35:30I don't know, it’s just fucked up. It’s super fucked up. I feel like while I’m still alive and able, I can tell my story. People might not believe it, and this is all bullshit, but ever since I started telling you all this, I’ve never felt so relaxed. I’m sleeping better than ever knowing that I told someone all this. It’s like a big sigh of relief to say it all out loud. ‘Cause I kinda feel trapped in all this. I can't ever tell anyone what my life has been like, and that means nobody understands me.

36:00Now that I’ve told you my story, I feel like, I don't know, complete in some way. Now that you have the story, I can die without worrying about it, because I probably will die soon, or a pedo’s gonna gang-bang me or fuck me up or something. I think the saddest thing would be if I die and nobody knows what I’ve ever done, and I’m just some unidentified body that takes his story to his grave, you know? I’ve done some stupid shit in the past, and it’s probably stupid for me to tell you all this, but I don't care anymore.

36:33JACK: What about going back home to see your mom? ZACHARIAH: She thinks I’m dead. There was a missing child case opened, but since they couldn't find me, they closed it. It’s been eight years since I left, so I’m certain she thinks I’m dead now. What’s the point? I don't see anything good waiting for me in Russia. If I go back there, they’ll just immediately put me in the military, and I don't want to do that shit. JACK: Can’t you just move to some farm or something and get your own cows and just live a peaceful, relaxing life?

37:02ZACHARIAH: And what, be bored as shit out there? JACK: No, I mean, you'd be alive out there. I mean, at least you wouldn't be dead. ZACHARIAH: No, dude, that’s the problem. There are too many people who try to play it safe in life. Better to be alive than dead, right? But fucking playing it safe, that’s not living. They aren't alive. They got seduced by the system to just surrender. They're choosing a predictable life instead of an extraordinary one.

37:30They're choosing comfort instead of fulfillment. They just want to go along with others to fit in, and I don't fit in. I can't fit in. JACK: Do you ever think back on it all and — like all the choices you've made and just wonder if you had made a different choice somewhere then you'd have a way better life now? Like, maybe you didn't break the teacher’s ankle or get in fights at school or something. ZACHARIAH: Or, what about if I didn't fight back when my mom’s boyfriend tried to rape me?

38:03How much more fucked up would I be then? JACK: No, you know what I mean. Like, do you ever think about a decision that you made that you wish you did something else instead? ZACHARIAH: I can't think about that. I mean, I do sometimes. I wish I still lived at home with my mom. My life was great as a kid living in her apartment. I had friends, food, someone to take care of me when I was sick. I remember dreaming as a kid what life would be like all grown up.

38:30I had high hopes for my future. But at the time I didn't realize how great things were. At the time I thought my town was shit. I thought my school was shit. I thought my life was shit. But it only got worse from there, and I wish I could have it back. But life’s changed too much now. There’s no way to go back to that. The boy is gone. If I made a bad choice in the past, that’s still my choice I made, and I have to live with that consequence. JACK: What about leaving America altogether and just going somewhere nice that you'd rather be?

39:09Like, I don't know, have you just ever thought about getting out? ZACHARIAH: That’s hard, too. That’s a trap set up by society where — we're nesting creatures. We like settling down into a routine, into comfort, into predictability. So, we get a house, we get a job, and those things are traps. We trap ourselves. We then feel stuck, like chained to the house, addicted to that paycheck. We feel stuck, and I feel stuck currently. I’ve built habits. I feel stuck doing certain things again and again, and it feels really hard to break all that, to leave this house, to leave my ambitions, to break my habits, and to go start something new somewhere else.

39:53Life is weird like that, where it feels like we have the ability to choose to do anything we want, but at the same time, we feel like we have no choice at all. Right now I don't feel like I have many options, and I recognize that it’s my own doing. You know, the way the world is connected now, like these online connections we all have, you think you're connected, but the opposite is true. The more online you are, the more disconnected you become.

40:23You lose your sense of humanity. You lose your sense of community. You feel more lonely and isolated. Just look at how everyone online is constantly fighting with each other. You know that if two people were in the same room they wouldn't be insulting each other to their faces like that. But online we're all faceless and we lose something there. There’s a disconnect. In fact, I think we could become so lost online we could disconnect from ourselves, even.

40:49We’d just get lost in like an algorithm or a website or something, and it shows us whatever it wants to show us. It’s not what we want to see; it’s what they want us to see. We can lose a complete sense of self. Hours can pass in this zombie-like trance. I sometimes wonder if the internet is stripping us from what it means to be human. It’s slowly turning us into, I don't know, robots or creatures trapped into perpetual routines, glued to our devices, unable to escape the gravitational pull of their algorithm that’s custom-feeding us garbage that we don't actually want, but they want us to consume it.

41:28I’ll tell you, being stuck on your phone or computer like that, that’s not living. If you find yourself stuck in an endless scrolling loop, put your phone down and ask yourself, what choices do I have right now? Because if you don't make your own choices, someone else will choose for you, and you don't want other people deciding things for you. Anyway, I forgot what you asked. I’m sorry. I’m stoned. JACK: No, it’s okay. I don't even remember what I asked, either.

41:57I guess I was just wondering if this story has an ending. ZACHARIAH: What do you mean? This is the end right here. JACK: No, I mean — dude, you're eighteen now, right? Your life has just become this — this isn't the end of your story. This is your origin story. I want to know where you end up after all this. ZACHARIAH: Hm, I think this is it. I don't know what else to do. I’ve helped a lot of people. I’ve hurt a lot of people. I feel like I’ve done a lot.

42:26JACK: You’ve had a whole lifetime of experiences before even becoming an adult. ZACHARIAH: Yeah, pretty much. JACK: Alright, man. Well, good luck. ZACHARIAH: Okay, thanks. You too. JACK: Hey man, listen. Life doesn't have to be like this. It doesn't have to be a war that you're always fighting. There is a better life for you out there, like a life where you're not always on the run or having to be invisible, where you can live in peace and in happiness and be proud of it.

42:55But it is hard to build. You've got to want it. You've got to choose it instead of letting the world decide your fate for you. I’ve seen what happens when the world decides for you. ZACHARIAH: Well, what about the kids who didn't get to choose, the ones who got their lives ruined by monsters, like what happened to me? I know the monsters are still out there, and I get to choose what to do about that. Should I let them rape boys? No. My life’s already gone, but maybe, just maybe I can stop someone else from becoming just like me.

43:23JACK: I get it, I get it. I do. You think you're saving them, and maybe you are, but Zach, in the process of saving their lives, it’s killing you. Don't you see that? It’s like you're throwing your life away, your one and only life for a fight that’s never ending. You're never gonna win this war. Your own life is going to be the most valuable thing you ever have, and you don't get a second chance. If you keep going like this, you won't ever see what you're losing until it’s too late.

43:51ZACHARIAH: I know my life is fragile. I know I’m burning up. But that’s the thing; you don't feel alive until you're standing right on the edge, and that’s when it hits you. Fuck, that drive home after the first time I beat the shit out of a pedo, I remember arriving home just when the sun was coming up, and I never saw a more beautiful sunrise than that. I remember the air felt fresher. The sky was brighter, and I realized how lucky I was to be here, still breathing.

44:22That’s why I do it, because I know better than anyone what it means to have a fucked-up life. JACK: Holy hell. ZACHARIAH: Life is shit. You know that. It’s full of awful people that try to do awful things to us. It’s full of terrifying situations and shitty deals, and if I do something that saves some kid’s life, that feels good. It feels like my purpose here is fulfilled. I know I’m not a good kid, but maybe I don't have to be good to make a positive difference.

44:55JACK: Yeah, but they're never gonna know you sacrificed yourself for them. ZACHARIAH: What do you want me to do, be just like everyone else with their gym memberships and 9-to-5 jobs and family photos at Christmastime? I don't have time to care about any of that. I am in survival mode here, and I’m running as fast as I can to not let fate catch up to me. I can see it’s closing it, and I don't think anyone has time for that stuff. They just haven't realized it yet.

45:23[Music] Shit, I have to go. I hope your show does great. It’s pretty good. I hope you do good. JACK: Okay, thanks. Take care. Talk later. ZACHARIAH: Alright, bye. JACK: That was the last time I ever spoke with Zachariah. He went silent after that call and it's now been seven years with no updates. This show was created by me, Jack Rhysider. I wrote, produced, narrated and sound designed it. I even did the voice for Zachariah using a voice changing effect.

46:33Final mixing done by Proximity Sound. Music supervision by Scott Polasquez. Just remember this, you don't a life. You get a chance at one. This is LOW.