Episode 354

0:00Speaker 1:Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences.

0:06Speaker 2:Listener discretion is advised. We got a home. Do you have a check on her welfare? I'm at her home and she's fast away. What she's fast away?

0:34Speaker 1:It's mid September twenty twenty three. Fifty two year old widow Marcia Allen is away from her home in Freetown, Indiana. She's on a trip to Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge, Tennessee with her parents. She leaves on Saturday, planning to return a week later. On the following Saturday. Before the trip, she does something she's been wanting to do for a while. While she installs cameras. She buys this system herself from Walmart and keeps it quiet. She wants to watch the house while she's away, mostly to keep an eye on her cats and because she feels unsafe since her husband died about a year ago. She gets them because she's never left her cats alone that long, and she has a bad feeling in the gut of her stomach, so she wants to be able to check in on her pets wherever she is.

1:31Speaker 2:I've never left.

1:31Speaker 3:My cats alone so that long before, and I had a got you.

1:36Speaker 2:I thought maybe one of them a daughter or something, and I.

1:38Speaker 3:Felt bad if I didn't know about it, and I got on to keep it out on my cats.

1:43Speaker 2:I'm still scared.

1:44Speaker 3:So I got the security survey those cameras because they ever telling me hear a noise, I jump. I look at all outside cameras.

1:53Speaker 2:Try and go outside of the workers. I don't want anybody cannot jump at me?

1:56Speaker 4:Right, Okay, you even watch it on your phone and you were you were actually out.

2:05Speaker 5:Went to Tennessee is his mom and dad's anniversary, and they wanted to go, and any must, I start going to work and they didn't take long end his dad's getting the bench.

2:19Speaker 2:So I took home.

2:21Speaker 1:Marcia has already lost her husband, and she was in that phase of life where you're not sure how much longer your parents are going to be around, starting to get there myself. It's not a good feeling. She notes that her dad has dementia and it was their anniversary. She's a good daughter. On her parents couch, she scrolls through the camera app. Suddenly there's a ping, then another. The AI in the app is able to determine that there is a person in view, but no one should be inside her house. She nervously taps the first click, and the view of the camera pops up on her phone.

3:04Speaker 1:The shape slides across the frame. She pinches to zoom, then another alert lands. Another clip cues. Her thumb keeps moving, Save, Save, Save. She starts counting, and she'll end up with twenty two videos by the time this is over. One of them is nearly five minutes long. Obviously, she's in a state of panic. As she stares at her phone. There are two adult males wearing hoodies and moving towards her safe and in that longer clip of face suddenly turns towards the camera. She watches more. The time stamps move towards six o'clock. A door that should be shut swings open, and a view shifts down a hall she knows by heart.

3:58Speaker 1:She studies the intruder's hands and clothing. The face flashes again, making her stomach drop. She recognizes it this time and says the name out loud, her eyes fixed on what she's seeing. She calls the sheriff's office and says where she is and what the app is sending, along with how many clips she has of the breakin. She texts and emails what she can, and then keeps the live view open to keep watching. Inside the house, drawers open and shut. In one camera angle, she sees the safe and catches her breath. She knows the sound that the safe makes when it opens. The live feed hiccups, then streams again. A second figure passes through a doorway. She listens for anything, footsteps, a scrape, anything she can tell deputies later. Then, around six pm, everything suddenly stops. The stream freezes up and drops. No more alerts, no more clips.

5:10Speaker 1:She refreshes nothing. She switches to another camera. Nothing. She knows this means someone must have unplugged the router. She stares at the blank screen. The safe is massive, and she thinks about what's inside. Family rings, collectibles, and dozens of firearms kept for years. She starts a list in her head, she writes it down. She tells herself she can pull serial numbers when she gets home, and then she calls the sheriff's office again to make sure they got the videos. She tells her parents she needs to go back early.

5:50Speaker 6:Okay, so I'm not sure if I got twenty two, but I got a lot of and I'm not sure that I've been.

5:59Speaker 7:All the way through all of them, but well, the five one shows Stephen's face, full.

6:05Speaker 8:Face, And what cracks me up is he looked in the midroom and he saw the camera, but yeah, distracting him and fell about.

6:15Speaker 6:Any and you called into the sheriff's apartment, okay, And so do you think the other guy's in the thing?

6:25Speaker 2:I do his I know his voice, and it sounds like his voice.

6:31Speaker 1:She only recognizes the voice of one of the suspects, but the other she saw his face and put a name to it. Stephen White. Deputies find him outside in the driveway at his parents place in Scott County. The officer took Stephen away from the house to a garage where his maroon four door sedan sat. Wearing a gray T shirt and dark sweatpants. Stephen I did as nonchalant, smoking a cigarette and waving his arms as he spoke with an open posture. After having his rights read to him, he gestured for his dog, Hank to move along, and then he took off running, not running with his legs so much as his mouth.

7:21Speaker 2:So do you understand your rights? Yes, sir? Okay? Hank go on, So you don't have any idea why we're here today.

7:26Speaker 9:Well, they said the show I got me on camera last night burglarized in the place.

7:33Speaker 2:Okay, so my husband, if that's the case, you know anything about it?

7:38Speaker 9:No, okay, my husband and I set up last night till about Well, we're talking to them one and watching. Note he's off work today. He works a gym pack. He started the movie a couple of weeks ago. I haven't had time to fancwer I personally. I think I have strap or something. You've been running a fever. My tongue is all swollen and sore, and my mouth as red and white. So let y'all know that I've been having diarrhea since all night.

8:04Speaker 2:Like our kids with school this morning. That was about it. I stood up on the balcans and biting the kids so they don't get sick of there at school right now.

8:14Speaker 1:Steven may have been sick and his kids may have been at school right now, but that didn't count for earlier that morning. The officer went on to tell him that he and possibly his husband had been positively idd in the video.

8:33Speaker 4:You know, I've been a police officer for a minute, all right, and one lie always leads to a second, second line and then a third lie on a fourth thight. It's going to make it look a hell lot worse, all right, And it'll save embarrassment whenever I show.

8:48Speaker 2:The video or show the pictures and they're like, well, you know, what can I say to that? Because I'll there to see the video. Okay, I do too. About three, I got a picture.

8:58Speaker 1:Here, so the officer showed them the picture.

9:01Speaker 2:I mean, I really do not have.

9:05Speaker 9:I what're about the car or the car that you're in there?

9:10Speaker 2:This is my car. Somebody fucking stole it from me on Sunday night.

9:14Speaker 6:And how'd you get it back then?

9:16Speaker 2:Because I found a police apportment. We found it over here.

9:19Speaker 9:But I had three keys for this, and I had my one the keys in there.

9:25Speaker 2:The other keydom putting in listen, I have my seconds, so listen. I just want you to want you to know, okay. But there's more than just that picture, all right.

9:38Speaker 1:He went on to explain that the most important thing was to return the stolen items to the owner, and if the owner was happy, Steven might avoid charges.

9:47Speaker 2:We either get the stuff back or I think, you know, probably what's coming. He's got to fucking jail and set and rock. You get the stuff back, you go to jail and set and rock.

9:57Speaker 1:Stephen was ready to talk some more.

10:01Speaker 2:That is just another sider. I'll expand the whole thing. It doesn't what does that lady is the lady who told me to go get the ship. Her name's Marcia.

10:12Speaker 10:Buston, and she asked me to get because her husband, Harold Allen, passed away in December, and according to her, she needed that life insurance money.

10:26Speaker 9:But she did not get that life insurance money because the policy was set to go to his brother.

10:33Speaker 11:How old is the lady that you're talking about, Marcia Buxton? Fifty fifty fifty?

10:43Speaker 2:Then does she live there? Yeah?

10:45Speaker 9:And now how she got it because whenever she married, the man signed a free talent.

10:51Speaker 2:I reckon.

10:52Speaker 12:She gave me an address. She said, hey, how Annie's to go up in here, and he was a grab someone and go up in here, and she's trying to meet this He was up there, and I did, and I went over there.

11:03Speaker 2:She wanted us to get rid of That was fun. This woman has hated me for years. I'm best friends with her daughter.

11:11Speaker 1:She needed the life insurance money, but Harold's death certificate said he died of natural causes. He'd had a heart condition that was getting worse in the weeks before he died. It happened at about two in the afternoon on December twentieth, the previous year.

11:28Speaker 13:Not on one.

11:31Speaker 2:Yeah, this is thirty two.

11:33Speaker 14:He said, no state road on thirty five.

11:35Speaker 9:My husband in our bedgroom for he's non responsive and anti relief.

11:40Speaker 10:Okay, what I dressed the air.

11:43Speaker 2:Thirty two eighty seven, No state road on thirty five, Alida.

11:53Speaker 9:He is fifty to.

11:56Speaker 5:Fifty two?

11:58Speaker 2:God, did you find him like that?

12:03Speaker 8:Yeah?

12:04Speaker 5:I work home and I went back.

12:06Speaker 1:There to shake because she's in the vick.

12:08Speaker 2:And I went back there.

12:10Speaker 15:He was just laying the floor like he was trying to get in the bedroom, stating, do you.

12:16Speaker 4:Want to start CPR if I help you?

12:22Speaker 2:Yeah, I could do that.

12:27Speaker 6:You just do your CPR and you keep me on speaker.

12:30Speaker 10:Okay.

12:33Speaker 2:Yeah.

12:35Speaker 1:Marcia called for a medical emergency. Her husband was dying or likely already dead, but this was anything but a natural death.

12:46Speaker 2:Sure.

12:47Speaker 1:The medical report read cardiovascular disease calcifying constructive perry carditis severe coronary atherosclerosis of the left interior descending artery. But his death was way more complicated than all of those big, complicated fancy words. It was murdered. Someone had murdered Harold Allen. Fifty two year old Marcia Allen was out of town in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, with her parents. While monitoring her home in Freetown, Indiana, started sending alerts about motion inside her house that shouldn't have existed. She saved twenty two clips, and around six o'clock the feed suddenly went dead. She called police, turned the videos over and gave a name.

14:22Speaker 1:It was someone she recognized, a friend of her daughter, Ashley. When officers tracked the burglar down, he gave them far more information than they were ready for. Accusing Marcia herself of staging the burglary while she was out of town, he claimed that she directed him to pick up a guy named Richard on that very date and carry out the heist. According to Stephen, she was upset that she didn't receive the life insurance money she was entitled to after her husband died. She was upset that it went to her brother in law. Instead. Now she was afraid her brother in law was going to take the only inheritance she had left, a safe full of jewelry and expensive guns, so instead she would have her daughter's friend, Steven, who already had a criminal history, steal them, sell them, and give her the proceeds while taking a cut for himself.

15:20Speaker 1:But the story was growing a bit out of control, as you'll soon learn.

15:26Speaker 2:She told me, and I already deleted all the messages like she yes to say, I'm going to do three thousand dollars. You can go to my house. Gave me this safe code. Yes, Martiadon said, you go down there, you can get this.

15:41Speaker 9:And I need it all taken somewhere, please, because his brother is trying to get into.

15:48Speaker 14:My house and they want to take me to court and take all of his Harold's guns and everything.

15:53Speaker 9:I said, Marsa Arma, and I cannot have guns right now. I'm sick of Sit. I'm really sick.

15:59Speaker 14:SIT was on my way the doctor because I told her, listen, bitch, I'm part of my friends.

16:05Speaker 9:And I said, listen, bitch, I'm not fucking I got some kids. My husband is kiss a friend like my dad is. We got a lot of shit going on. I am not about to drive runs across this town.

16:19Speaker 2:If you have shit and fancy, so be it. I don't want no bullets and no wonder fucking weapons in my car.

16:25Speaker 9:And she took everything apart, and she said everything exactly where it was supposed to fucking go, and I got what I could do.

16:32Speaker 14:She told me to go on Monday night and Tuesday night. And it sounds to me like she's set me up real quick.

16:39Speaker 1:Stephen, being the sassy ass bitch that he is, was a felon and couldn't be caught with weapons. Also, he had a lot going on, clearly, a lot of problems issues, kind of a fucked up life already, it sounds like. But in the same breath, he said he did it anyway her exactly words.

17:00Speaker 14:I want to see hermoved from the house before I get that from Tennessee and set up my cameras.

17:07Speaker 2:Because I needed to be able.

17:08Speaker 9:To tell his brother that all these things are gone because their mine, and I don't want them to.

17:14Speaker 2:Try to fight me in court over it.

17:17Speaker 12:Over and inherit.

17:18Speaker 2:You know what this next? Yeah, from a text now number to see.

17:23Speaker 1:That Steven already admitted that Marcia hated him. Apparently she was a racist who didn't like him and blamed him in some way for coming between her and her daughter. Allegedly that is so, was she setting him up or did she just want the inheritance she felt she deserved and knew he could get it for or was it even Marcia that texted him in the first place.

17:53Speaker 4:Are you sure that Ashley is not the one that message you to go do that? I'm not because because the information that we have that we're getting would be a little bit conflicting on that part, like Ashley.

18:08Speaker 2:And if it is Astley, just tell me. I'm really not sure's actually Marshall. That's the thing. They've been like this a whole line. But do you have the ad your phone? Is it labeled as Ashley if she was to text you, No, not at all.

18:22Speaker 4:But the person that text said this is Marcia. Lets you called me on my text now number signing favorite.

18:28Speaker 2:I said, who is this night? Gonna call from a text now number?

18:30Speaker 14:This has been okay a couple of months ago.

18:36Speaker 6:And then it was supposed to go down on this day.

18:39Speaker 9:Pretty sure because it was text now. The call is on text now. But to be honest with you, Marsha and actually looked just to like sound, just to like dress, just to like their the same kind of psychopath.

18:50Speaker 1:Now, in case you don't know, text now is an app that allows you to text people from an anonymous number. It wasn't sure if it was Marcia or Ashley, but whoever was on the other end of the phone wasn't finished giving orders, and.

19:05Speaker 9:Tonight all was supposed to go back and completely didn't burn the house down because apparently when she was young she.

19:12Speaker 2:Burnt her house down. Deputy, she burnt her house down, Deputy.

19:16Speaker 9:Yeah, she took her five year old daughter to her grandparents burnt house down in Depthy.

19:22Speaker 2:But you were supposed to go back tonight and burn the house. I wasn't close that I was gonna burn her down, house out. I'm not doing that. I was like, look, I'm not going to do that so much. You don't burn it down.

19:30Speaker 9:You need to make it look like you've broken in there and make it look bandalized so I can get the insurance money.

19:36Speaker 1:Steven's accusations were getting wild and he wasn't stopping.

19:41Speaker 9:This woman hated me for years. I'm best friends with her daughter. Okay, what's the daughters in the Osa Jones. I'm just saying, you're being awful truthful with this. So I this to be to be.

19:56Speaker 4:You know, contradicted by by this one.

19:59Speaker 2:He's a cooking murder.

20:00Speaker 9:Okay, I know that I've not gone to nobody, and so I didn't think I don't have no proof on it. This woman's a psychopath, and I'm telling you guys that right now.

20:10Speaker 2:Harold Allen was.

20:11Speaker 9:Her husband, set a life insurance policy for him, went and married him. I don't know when she married him, because since I've left, I've been away from him. This woman straight came to my house one day and sat me across the face and told me, at twenty six years old, and told me if I ever talked to her daughter again this she was gonna kill me.

20:29Speaker 2:I'd better watch you better watch her fuck in foot Now, I was right up there at the house or how that was what the fun? So was there an Audienel the cards who dipped off and.

20:36Speaker 1:Left, Well, that was a fun little story, the kind of lifetime movie someone of Harold's demographic would just eat right up. It's important to state that as far as we know and as far as the police know, Harold Allen died of natural causes, and all this verbosity about murder was just nonsense. What they did know was that this very vocal character was caught in the act of burglarizing Marsha's home on camera. And now he's got a whole lot of stories about what other people did instead.

21:12Speaker 1:What about is them? They call it?

21:15Speaker 2:Marsa's not stupid. Here's what I do know. Because she's killing her husband and her mother in law and gone away with that shit. So here's why I do now, and I do know how that happens.

21:24Speaker 4:You need me to ask these guys to go move to like inside or go somewhere else.

21:30Speaker 2:But what I do know is that we need that stuff by now.

21:35Speaker 1:It was Marcia who not only killed her husband but also her mother in law as well. Right if it were only that easy. They recovered the property and interviewed Marsha the next day so detectives could pin down the how and who behind the heist.

21:54Speaker 6:I'll tell you that we recovered.

21:58Speaker 2:Niggs rings we make to the rest.

22:00Speaker 1:In this case, that would be Stephen White, the other guy. Marcia only recognized Stephen because, according to Marcia, he was too stupid to cover his face and he ran his mouth the whole time. She recognized the other man's voice and would later learn that he was a longtime friend of Steven's.

22:20Speaker 3:If you could get his phone, I can, I guarantee it's gonna be my daughter. And he texted him that combination of that safe.

22:27Speaker 6:So and I was gonna ask you a little bit more about that tape.

22:31Speaker 16:Three people in.

22:32Speaker 2:The world save is me, my husband, and my daughter.

22:37Speaker 1:Only one name was linked to both the family and the suspect, and that was Marcia's daughter, Ashley Jones, a friend of Stephen White. She knew the players, she knew the layout, and she knew the safe's code. Plus she was smart well relatively logic solved the mystery. It was actually no mystery at all. The real mystery was connected to Harold's death. This is the detective who led that case.

23:13Speaker 4:My name is Adam Nicholson, and I have two decades of experience in law enforcement at least, and all that's been right here in Indiana at the Jackson Couity Sheriff's Department. I've worked patrol for most of my career and then in twenty nineteen was promoted to lieutenant, and if the detective Division would receive a big case as this one that we're talking about, then I would step over to kind of help them guide them with it. And this one just kind of worked out to where I ended up being the lead investigator on it because we had had another murder within the probably six months of this one.

23:53Speaker 4:So this kind of was up my alley, you know, of what the things I like to do, putting pieces together, patterns the human behavior.

24:03Speaker 1:Adam remembered that Harold Allen was someone that everyone seemed to like.

24:08Speaker 4:Through the you know, the investigation of talking to family and friends and coworkers, I mean, everybody basically said the exact same thing. Like he was a very caring, loving man. He was a good, good husband, loved his wife. Everybody at his work, you know, enjoyed being around him, and nobody had any complaints about him at all, And like everybody was really just sad for him, you know, because they could only imagine what he had been through. And but yeah, no ill words or anything about the guy.

24:41Speaker 4:He was just everybody thought he was super.

24:45Speaker 1:And here's what a friend said about Harold on his memory page.

24:50Speaker 15:I'm heartbroken by Harold's passing. He was a wise mentor and very skilled teacher to me. Although he was too humble to admit it, Harold was always giving me advice, both professionally and about life in general. I continue to follow his guidance to this day. He could be rough around the edges, but you'd quickly realized that he was the most kind and most caring person you would ever meet. I find comfort knowing that he found love and met his wife, Marcia, who he spoke often and fondly of my deepest condolences to you and your family.

25:26Speaker 1:Everyone who knew Harold praised him and believed he died of a heart condition. But back in the interview room, the detective was about to rip that apart with Steven's accusations, starting with Marsha's alleged involvement in the burglary.

25:42Speaker 6:And this is where it gets interesting. Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and make sure you understand this. Some of this is going to be accusatory towards you, because this is what he said. Okay, so you're not under arrest. You are freely anytime you want, but I just want to make sure you understand it. He's accusing you of some stuff too. So here's here's what he says. And I may have it was a lot.

26:09Speaker 2:So if I get some of it wrong.

26:11Speaker 6:If I get some of it wrong, I apologize. But so he says that he received a call from a text now number, and he says that it was back in I think he said, like in May or June, so it's been a couple of months ago.

26:28Speaker 2:And that basically it was a female on the other side.

26:33Speaker 6:He thought it was of the line. He said, he thought it was you, but I think he may have said something to the fact that you and Ashley sounded like, so it could have been Ashley.

26:41Speaker 2:And he said that.

26:45Speaker 6:Basically something to the effect and I could get some of the facts for on this, but something something to the effect that all these guns, something about when your when your husband passed away, that all these guns, maybe some family members were wanting them or something. Well, what he's saying is basically.

27:06Speaker 15:That you.

27:08Speaker 6:Said that you would give me three thousand dollars to go in the house and take the guns and have him take the guns and take them back to his place.

27:17Speaker 2:He's a liar.

27:19Speaker 6:I did not do that, okay. And he also said something about something about burning down the house, burning down your house, he burn on. I don't know if he was saying he was going to I don't. I would have to go back because I recorded the whole interview.

27:35Speaker 2:Oh wow, I have to go back to see exactly what he said. There was a lot that he said.

27:41Speaker 1:He wasn't exaggerating, and she was not prepared for what came next.

27:46Speaker 6:I'll tell you what else he said.

27:48Speaker 2:He accused you of murdering your husband. I did not burn my husband.

27:54Speaker 6:Okay, something to the effect of some kind of I don't know, some kind of or something that basically poisoning, poisoning as drink.

28:04Speaker 2:That would suld be a tosscology report if that.

28:06Speaker 7:Happened, And was there an autopsy done, Yes, antop trichology. He died because he had Perry got as that was unintected.

28:15Speaker 15:Yeah.

28:16Speaker 7:What perry cardid is is the infimat the perry heart has perry cardon around it, the lining of the heart that ella protects the heart when it beats. It went unintected, so it went along so long that the perry cardium around the heart heartened and it stopped his heart, and he had a little bit of blocked arders.

28:36Speaker 2:That's an autopsy report.

28:38Speaker 1:Okay, Well, if that's what the autopsy said, that's what it's said. But she was still being accused of setting up the burglary.

28:48Speaker 2:Do you because I don't.

28:49Speaker 6:Know, I haven't been a goal to talk pero yet, do you think Ashley would have I mean, because you said that only.

28:56Speaker 7:Through the pans are worth a lot of money, you.

28:58Speaker 6:Think Ashley would have had something to do with this.

29:01Speaker 2:She has to have.

29:02Speaker 7:She's only the even new combination and I would never need it out to your dy.

29:07Speaker 1:Ever, Ashley and her fiance had lived with Marcia and Harold for a while, but now Ashley was living in Missouri. The only way to get to the bottom of this was to call her. At the same time, detectives scoured Stephen White's phone and found some shocking evidence messages between Ashley and him that confirmed the burglary conspiracy. This is a montage of some of the things Ashley said.

29:36Speaker 15:I do have access next week to her home with a lot to steal and sell. It would be as simple as I load the truck, you go sell it. We look for more rinse repeat, I mean one hundred K worth of guns. Lol. I already stole my guns to keep, she owes me. I'm about to grab the coins too. I just get to get her.

29:56Speaker 2:Out of the house.

29:57Speaker 15:He only has a D and D and it will not out for natural causes. Only thing they can do is say yeah, you don't get it, or where do I send the two hundred k lol.

30:09Speaker 1:This was enough to bring Ashley in from Missouri for questioning. Meanwhile, detectives had access to Stevens and Marsh's phones. The case went quiet for a few weeks. What surfaced wasn't another clip or a rumor. It was an online order by Ashley with a shipping label in the family name Lynn Allen. All pointing to the Freetown address with dates, size and price attached, and the item in the center of those records hinted at a much larger crime. Was Stephen telling the truth? The burglary thread had become a lead. The paper trail pointed back to Harold and to his murder.

30:57Speaker 1:When Marsha returned on October sixth, steenth, the first question was the order, who bought it, where was it shipped? And what phone number was on it. The detective shows her the paperwork.

31:14Speaker 6:So it was ordered through a place that was called kim Boys LLC. It's some company which is definitely Glycole was ordered from, says order sources peach Pay, So it was paid to peach Pay. Do you have peach Pay or anything?

31:31Speaker 2:Is okay?

31:33Speaker 1:Even though the order was sent to Lynn Allen. The address is Marsha's.

31:39Speaker 6:See what I'm talking about where it says it's billing the Lynn Allen.

31:42Speaker 2:Is that's your address right five says shipping Lynn Allen.

31:49Speaker 6:And your address again the phone number is associated with that A one two five two one two six seven one is that Ashley's number.

31:59Speaker 1:The next day, they sat face to face with Marsha's daughter, Ashley Well. Marcia was fairly animated, facial expressions, a tone of voice that suggested disbelief for curiosity. Ashley was extremely subdued and poised, almost quietly defiant.

32:18Speaker 2:We're not going to talk to you about okay, That's not what.

32:21Speaker 6:We're here to talk about. We actually we talked to your mom yesterday for four or five hours.

32:31Speaker 2:We had to talk to her about some things. She answered some questions for us, So.

32:36Speaker 6:We were going to talk to you about some of that, okay, Before we do that, I am going to read to your rights. You're in custody. Let me make sure you understand that a lot of what we talked about was about the death of Harold. We have some text messages from your mom's phone. She consented to a download and there was some text messages on there that.

33:01Speaker 2:We have some concern about it. The meaning of those six messages.

33:06Speaker 17:We have an order works on ethylene glycol was ordered on December thirteenth.

33:12Speaker 2:I think it was December thirteenth.

33:13Speaker 17:December fourteenth, ethylene glycol arrived at the address.

33:19Speaker 18:Of your mom's out in Freetown, thirty two eighty seven.

33:22Speaker 17:North State Road one thirty five on December nineteenth. On December twentieth, your herald ended up passing away.

33:35Speaker 2:Do you know anything about ethylene glycol?

33:40Speaker 10:Ah?

33:40Speaker 1:Ethylene glycol otherwise known as anti freeze. It's a sweet tasting substance that you can sneak into your hubbies drink. And the best part is you won't even notice until he's dead. I guess he won't notice when he's dead either. In any case, it's the murder weapon of choice for those who don't like guns. You know, women for the most part. The detective had screenshots of the ethylene glycol order being sent to that address under the name Lynn Allen.

34:14Speaker 1:This was Marcia's middle and last name. They also had messages from Ashley to her mother asking for money for this particular order. According to Marsha, she knew nothing about it. It was Christmas time. Ashley, her fiance who was also named Ashley, and the kids were all living there and packages were just flooding in. Who can keep track?

34:42Speaker 4:I understand, but there was only one thing that Ethelyne Galli. A lot of packages at from Kelmas crystals time I get that, I mean would do the same thing I did. I'd rather a shop online and they go to a busy store.

34:54Speaker 2:But I would remember a thing of Ethlene guy called coming my house if I got it.

35:02Speaker 4:The day that it does come, which is the nineteenth, we know what day it was delivered. We have the tracking number. There's a message from Asery saying we have a delivery.

35:18Speaker 1:The focus closed in on mother and daughter. One bought the poison and used it on Harold. Did the other know? Did the other help?

35:31Speaker 2:So you know?

35:32Speaker 6:And part of this stems from also from you know, talking to somebody who gave us some information and saying that Harold. The information we got was Harold did.

35:43Speaker 2:Not die in natural causes, basically that he was foolisen.

35:48Speaker 5:Right.

35:49Speaker 6:Yes, So when we follow up on that and we get these your long consents to the phone number, and we get all these text messages, and we start going to these text messages you and your mom, right, and like I said, one of the things, just one, there's a lot of them. One of them is on December thirteenth. December fourteenth, fround that timeframe, fln glackole was ordered. I think you texted to your mom if I remember correctly, and that tracking number matches the same tracking number that he was at our other defect. He was able to get of the F one black hole that arrived at the house on December nineteenth.

36:31Speaker 2:The information we.

36:32Speaker 6:Received was that there was Ruber floats that were made. Is put into the Ruger float, and that Harold drinks it, and obviously the end result was that died.

36:47Speaker 1:Marcia denied having any involvement in the poisoning. She denied everything, while her own daughter continued to point the finger at her in her calm, unbothered tone of voice.

36:59Speaker 4:You know that your mom did something this is probably really shouldn't have done. I mean, your mom's always fun a bit yesterday, so and you know that actually, I mean, do you think your mom's shapable have done something like that.

37:16Speaker 6:I mean, I don't know that she did, but I mean.

37:23Speaker 2:She's sable. Whatever.

37:28Speaker 1:If Marcia was intelligent, Ashley was a genius and being somewhat facetious here, detectives had already confirmed that Marcia had nothing to do with the burglary. Ashley felt cheated out of her share of Harold's life insurance, and she was going to recoup in whatever way she could. Still, detectives pressed on with Marcia, this is the word.

37:56Speaker 2:In the same day that this has.

37:58Speaker 4:Delivered, there's rumor floats, and then the very next day Harold's dead.

38:05Speaker 16:How did I feel?

38:05Speaker 13:You?

38:07Speaker 2:Who did?

38:09Speaker 7:As far as I know, he has heart condition?

38:11Speaker 2:Did Okay, let's we get the results back. Yeah, and it says there's Ethelyne Blackel and his system. How did that get there?

38:21Speaker 13:You?

38:21Speaker 2:You didn't know anything about it? How did that?

38:24Speaker 18:We both made the root floats?

38:27Speaker 3:So I did not put anything in anyone's dream.

38:30Speaker 5:I didn't even know he had anything like that there is.

38:34Speaker 6:There ever a Chancellor Ashley could have put something in there.

38:38Speaker 5:I have no idea she She literally did watch her, did you.

38:41Speaker 2:I did not watch her, That's what I'm asking. I did not watch her the whole time.

38:45Speaker 15:No, I did not.

38:47Speaker 1:Marcia was aware that Ashley was growing marijuana in the house. Okay, no big deal in twenty twenty six, I guess. But that wasn't the only botany Ashley was experimenting with. She was also in all sorts of new age domestic white woman horseshit, like saging and cleansing, amulets and crystals, demons and things that would attach themselves to people, even convincing Marcia that something evil had attached itself to Harold, not because he was unkind, abusive, or controlling, but because he was sick a lot. Surely that many had some sort of demon attached to him, and it was no wonder Harold was sick a lot. He did have a heart condition, after all, But was it natural or was it because he was slowly being poisoned? From the time Ashley temporarily moved in months before his death, Marcia remembered Ashley asking strange questions about poisoned plants under the umbrella of good parenting.

39:54Speaker 1:According to Ashley, she wanted to know which poisonous plants surrounded the house, you know, so she could tell her little girl what to avoid.

40:04Speaker 2:So looking back on as me stuff like what plant should I.

40:13Speaker 3:I'll watch out for because Valance outside plane, I don't wander at hurt she tries to eat something because boots sticks everything in her mouth.

40:19Speaker 8:Still, she would say, like, I know what the poisons plants were around the region, so she would make sure Vallet didn't get into it.

40:31Speaker 3:The stuff Valin has a on you problem since she was a cree meat, her kidneys didn't develop properly, and Valot gets around certain things. She gets sick or she breaks up pass it and she can't hast had emergency.

40:50Speaker 5:Does as a steroids because her body doesn't produce the response to fuck things.

40:58Speaker 2:Had she never gotten into anything like that before.

41:01Speaker 3:She has and she had him at the air and she ended up on steroids.

41:06Speaker 1:Hmmm, fox club seeds? Is she a witch? Does she float? I'm starting to think the Salem witch trials weren't such a bad idea. The fox club plant is native to North America and grows in shady damp areas. If ingested, it causes dangerous heart Arrythmius, it could lead to death.

41:28Speaker 2:Fox club seeds are stalked about. Yeah, she has no about the crypt all the time.

41:34Speaker 3:Of course I never done about it.

41:36Speaker 1:But maybe she did think about it.

41:40Speaker 2:When he went to the hospital. Does he went to the hostle twice something? Yeah? Maybe most face is.

41:49Speaker 4:Bleeding bleeding, Actually, I think that diarrhea, all that kind of stuff.

41:55Speaker 2:She told me, you just have the truthfum face and so well, same thing. You know, they take the lead of blood and drawn. Is there any.

42:06Speaker 4:Is there is there gonna be a good chance that that blood is gonna have foxflowing?

42:14Speaker 2:Probably, so you Okay, why do you think for sure? Just be honest again, just be honest.

42:19Speaker 19:Because she was ordering plants flow plants, I think so. I know that she tried to get a hold of some nuther wort, which I didn't know who that was.

42:30Speaker 4:Okay, tell me about the fox flow and where it was ordered from.

42:36Speaker 16:I think that she.

42:39Speaker 2:Found someone, Betsy.

42:41Speaker 1:This was Marsha's response.

42:44Speaker 13:You said I.

42:44Speaker 2:Need fox cloth seeds, and she says.

42:47Speaker 20:I think you said, I think I can give them a Walt more.

42:51Speaker 2:They're pretty flowers, and then she said, thank you.

42:54Speaker 20:We are watching a new movie on Netflix with the kids, and those are traceable.

42:59Speaker 1:The entire our foxglove plant is poisonous, so it could have been easy enough to believe that Marcia wanted seeds to plant because of the pretty flowers. Still, when Ashley followed up in a message saying those are traceable, detectives knew this was bigger than they originally thought. The rest of the messages gave plenty of clues, but that was just it. They were clues. What became clear was that Harold had been sick for weeks and the reason was becoming apparent. Neither Marcia nor Ashley seemed to care about his misery either. All they cared about was their own.

43:43Speaker 1:Marcia messages Ashley saying she's irritated and she can't sleep. She needs for this to be over. She says it's hanging on by threats. It's so long because he's big, meaning something is taking too long because of his size and weight. Marcia and Ashley often referred to Harold as it by the way, so that gives you a clue. Another character, Ashley answers Marcia, it moves slow and has to build. Marcia then says she wished it would quote reach its climax and be done. Lol. He's snoring on and off and if he moved around it would go faster end quote. Then Ashley responds, yes, if he got moving it would be faster, but we know he won't.

44:39Speaker 1:Marcia went on to explain that Harold's stomach was hurting, but his face was better. Yet he wasn't presenting like the stories, just vomiting in diarrhea. Ashley answers, we also have god knows how many that aren't reported or know how it grows, only the stories of the self inflicted, and we will see. If not, we will do something else. But I think it's slowly doing it. The detectives were shocked by what they found, and when they questioned Marcia, she had an explanation for everything, even if it didn't make sense. Ashley, on the other hand, just kept pointing the finger at her own mother, even though they were clearly both involved. Probably the most shocking thing of all was the possibility that this wasn't the first time one of them had poisoned someone. Ashley was currently engaged to a woman, and her previous partner was also a woman, but the father of her only child was a man.

45:45Speaker 1:Well obviously because you know biology. Anyway, guess what. He died in his early thirties from a supposed stroke. His name was t Y. Now ain't that a ku winky dink? And then you wonder why people can't find a date in twenty twenty six.

46:04Speaker 20:So there's something. And it's something along the lines like talking about how much he weighs, and it's taken longer because he weighs a certain him out and Tie's drawn it up and how much Tie weighed and.

46:20Speaker 2:You said, love you too.

46:21Speaker 20:I just want it done. She said, me too, like beyond over a laugh out loud. But we got it. You said, like, what's taking so long? He's off balance, said he had trouble getting out of the car. She said, to weight. It takes twelve hours for a woman at one eighty to feel anything. You do the math, laugh out loud. It's slow and previously Tie was only one twenty. So it's the weight, you said, So it's going to take a while. She said, forty eight max.

46:52Speaker 2:We will know. Also, he's high still. I gave him a lot of weed, butter brownie.

47:01Speaker 20:You don't know what he has because of that, no will could be nausea.

47:06Speaker 6:Happening, and everything.

47:09Speaker 2:Is my found wal He's making me mad. He's stupid and kind.

47:15Speaker 1:In case you didn't hear, Marcia says, he gets stupid when he's high. So it looked like Marcia and Ashley were slowly poisoning Harold and they couldn't really track his so called symptoms because they were giving him we'd infused food to help with the pain and nausea. How kind. But then she mocks him for being stupidly high. Well, Marcia deflected, played dumb, and spun the texts in her favor with detectives for hours. Ashley very simply maintained that this was all her mother's doing.

47:51Speaker 2:And going to kind of get to the mons.

47:54Speaker 4:Okay, I mean, we we know what happened to Harold.

47:59Speaker 2:We've got we've got evidence of that. Your mom come in yesterday. She told us a lot.

48:04Speaker 4:We've got months and months and months and text messages from your mom's phone, and I mean it's it's obvious that you know something happened.

48:14Speaker 2:To him, and.

48:18Speaker 4:You know, I mean, basically, now is your chance to tell us what you know about what happened to Harold, because.

48:31Speaker 2:I mean, like I said, these text messages or where this.

48:36Speaker 4:Stuff came from, the confirmation numbers. I think at some point she probably dragged you into something that you didn't want to be in, or there was something to do with those demons or something you know with that. But we just we just want to know the truth. I mean, what's your is your relationship with your mom?

49:00Speaker 15:Good?

49:02Speaker 2:Yes? And now I kind of just put up with what she does. She's always tried to You're into whatever she.

49:09Speaker 19:Gets into, and she's always trying to do anytime I get any type of financial game on man, you know, like how I sold my house, she wants it.

49:21Speaker 1:This was a complete lie told by someone who had taken a large amount of money from her mother, not once, but twice.

49:30Speaker 4:I can't imagine what you feel being betrayed via your daughter. And I can't imagine what it would feel like if I knew my kid had done something. You know, but this, you know at this point, I mean, there is so much content there and I would almost call it evidence. And like you said, we didn't go into detail in there. What we make of those messages. I mean we' we have more than just the messages.

50:02Speaker 2:We have some of the results in the hospital when he went to the hospital back.

50:07Speaker 4:In November, and the symptoms that he was experiencing, which remind you is the same day that within the same time for him when I say the bat day with the fox gloves are mentioned and the symptoms of fox gloves seet what happens is the you know, the bleeding and the stomach and the.

50:31Speaker 2:Face that you guys are talking about.

50:34Speaker 4:And then one one thing that he didn't get to all the way down was on the nineteenth whenever the Ethelene Vikhl gets there is the conversations then, but you know, like it's there. Then there were some pictures, you know, like I said, the rout beard and things like that.

50:51Speaker 1:Detectives gave Marcia every opportunity to point the finger back at Ashley or just come clean, but he refused.

51:01Speaker 2:I'm not going to be shocked at this point.

51:03Speaker 4:To be shocked, you would have to not believe any of the messages between you and Assad to be shocked at it wouldn't be in a system, or you wouldn't believe any of the stuff on the Google search.

51:17Speaker 2:Was never Google.

51:18Speaker 18:I mean, and what Steven tells us, I mean, he says root beer float and that's what'll be fine, right, you know, not long after Ethlene Gleichols or sent to your house and the name is addressed to his Win Allen.

51:32Speaker 6:What's your middle name is Lynn and it's your address.

51:35Speaker 5:And so.

51:38Speaker 20:I mean, I know what you We've already told you all this, and you already know all this. But that's why we are where we're at.

51:45Speaker 4:I mean, I mean, and I know you're smart, and you you say you already you know how this looks.

51:51Speaker 2:I mean, this stuff doesn't look good.

51:53Speaker 21:And then to have this on top of it, and I mean, there was enough that you know, the the courses and grudge and prosecu and you know, have issued more for the for the phones.

52:05Speaker 1:And during the interviews, detectives went back to the phone copy they saw gaps. Marcia had deleted a lot of texts. This is Detective Adam Nicholson again.

52:20Speaker 4:And after she submitted to the phone downloaders or consented, she actually deleted the messages in the interview room between her and Ashley. Because Clint had to step out of the interview room for a second and grabbed the consent for him for her to sign, so and he couldn't like take her phone with him because you know, she hadn't she hadn't signed it yet, but she had consented. And while he's gone, she's going through her phone, she's deleting things. She told him that she was just deleting like pictures from her security camera, like of her, uh in the house or you know where she was, like in her underwear and stuff, and she didn't necessarily want us to see that, which was understandable, you know, But when she gave us the phone, I thought, there's no way that that there's anything on that phone. There's no way she would have gave it to us. So I think that she thought by deleting those messages that she was probably free and clear. And then she didn't hear back from us until October. That was September twentieth. We showed up early in the morning on the sixteenth of October, this would have been twenty twenty three, and we had

53:31Speaker 4:search worms for her house for all electronic devices like laptops, computers, old cell phones, memory sticks, or flash drives, hard drives, things like that. She didn't know we were coming until we knocked on the door. Yeah, we knocked on the door early in the morning. She had just got out of bed of the pier. She was like in her still like Pj's and you can tell then she was shocked. And I read the warrants to her, and the warrant actually mentions like to seize the property for evidence of murder, for the crime of murder. And I remember, like her face is like you know if you if you watch that video, yeah, you can tell, like she knows then, like and she agreed. So she me and Clint took her back to the shrif's apartment while the other officers and detectives completed the search warrant. And so I think that was probably her first moment of like noe, like yeah, they there's there's they know something they knew.

54:37Speaker 1:Ashley and her mother had discussed how long it would stay in someone's body, how no one would notice, and how to make it ready for use by saying I need something that crushes this into powder. They also had testimony of Ashley's partner recalling that Ashley was grinding up something she put in Harold's brownie, throwing the grinder away afterwards and telling her lover not to say anything about it. On October seventeenth, Ashley interviewed with detectives from jail after being arrested for the burglary. They were surprised she said anything at all, because when they picked her up in Missouri for the burglary, she immediately asked for an attorney.

55:22Speaker 4:I'm proud of Detective Bircham and the job he did and myself, and you know, it was just one of those though that it couldn't be at our best because our hands were tied, you know, like we we knew with Marcia because we were told the prosecutor told us if we didn't get a confession, we couldn't arrest her. I mean, we kind of went in, you know, like I wanted to know that if she told me to, you know, go screw off, that you know, I could arrest her. But I didn't have that in my back pocket, you know, so I had to sit there and play dumb, play nice, you know, try to go along with what she was saying, Try to act like I was believing what I mean, because if the moment I started pushing on her, she got very upset and I could tell that she was close to probably saying, you know, like I want an attorney, And if she would have said, you know, I want an attorney, then game over.

56:16Speaker 2:That's the law, and we respect that.

56:18Speaker 4:You can't you can't keep questioning somebody once they say that, So we had to be very very careful on how we approached that interview, you know, knowing how hard it is and having it happened to me before, like how easy it is for somebody to say I want an attorney, like you're done, and we had already been told like, you can't arrest her if she doesn't confess, so we didn't get an arrest her. And it was the same thing with Ashley, except we already had that experience with Ashley once because she was when she got arrested in Missouri, Me and Clint Birtum, the detective, had also went out there and they brought her back to their sheriff's department.

56:58Speaker 2:We went in to talk to her just.

57:00Speaker 4:About the burglary, not about the murder at all, like we were just there to talk about the burglary and didn't want her to even know that we knew about the murder. And she requested the attorney like almost immediately they said, you know, she wanted an attorney. So when she got brought back to Jackson County, you know, we we had hopes, but they weren't very high like we thought. You know, as soon as we go in there and tell her, you know, hey, we don't want to talk to you about the burglary.

57:26Speaker 2:We don't.

57:27Speaker 4:We can't talk to you about that. You requested an attorney, but we want to talk to you about the death of Harold. Like I thought one hundred percent she was going to say, I don't want to talk to you, but she did.

57:39Speaker 1:During that interview, Ashley talked, but her words mainly implicated her mother, which was no surprise, but the detectives had an unfortunate surprise for her.

57:54Speaker 6:So I'm talking about something completely different.

58:01Speaker 16:It's not gonna be an easy conversation.

58:03Speaker 13:Okay, After your momentary yesterday and spoke with us.

58:08Speaker 2:We got a call to have a check on her welfare. I'm at her home and she's pass away.

58:16Speaker 13:What's she passed away?

58:21Speaker 2:What happened?

58:23Speaker 13:Without going into a lot of detail, she appeared that there was something ingested possibly and pass away.

58:40Speaker 2:You're serious.

58:41Speaker 16:I'm one hunder serious because.

58:45Speaker 2:She killed herself.

58:47Speaker 16:That is what that's what we believe happened.

58:52Speaker 2:Yes, don't make shock. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Please have nothing to apologize for.

59:01Speaker 16:I felt it was necessary to let you know that I'm very sorry for the loss.

59:15Speaker 1:In hours of tape, Ashley stayed flat, measured, careful, clinical. Almost The only crack comes when detectives tell her Marcia her mother is dead. That's when the mask suddenly slips, her voice wobbles, her breath catches, and for one minute, the room feels human again. It's a strange tragedy. Mother and daughter so tightly bound together that they eliminate the person they feel is getting in the way, Harold. They talked of plans to sell the place and move in together, but then the pressure begins mounting. Marcia knows that Ashley will likely be in prison for a very long time, and they're coming for her next, so she takes an easy exit. If her daughter could betray her so easily, she would do the same. What Marcia couldn't have known was what Ashley would do next. Fifty seven year old Harold Allen died at home in Freetown, Indiana, on December twentieth, twenty twenty two, five days before Christmas. His death was first certified as natural. Months later, a September nineteenth, twenty twenty three burglary at the same house drew detectives back.

1:01:27Speaker 1:Marsha Allen, Harold's wife, had been out of town when home cameras captured Stephen White, who was happy to spill all the tea in the world with plenty of dramatic flare, I might add, and phone messages tied the brake in to Marsha's daughter and friend of Stephen, Ashley Jones. Detectives then shifted from burglary to death. Records showed an online order shipped under the family name to the Freetown address, and interviews on October sixteenth and seventeen, twenty twenty three focused on whether that chemical ended up in Harold's drink, a root beer float. Marcia had denied the order, Ashley had pointed to Marcia, but soon evidence tied them both to the murder. Just before detectives would have arrested Marcia, they found her at home, dead in her bed of suicide.

1:02:26Speaker 1:As for Harold, toxicology later reported ethylene glycol, and the death certificate was amended. Review of Marcia and Ashley's text messages alluded to an even bigger mystery. Was this Ashley's first attempt at poisoning? Detectives found it beyond strange that get this. Ashley's ex husband also died of supposed heart conditions or a stroke.

1:02:56Speaker 2:Hmm.

1:02:57Speaker 1:Suspicious when you say he died at a very young age just days after he received an inheritance. Could that be a coincidence? Ashley Jones was arrested and charged in October of twenty twenty three with murder, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted murder, and burglary tied to Harold Allen's death and the September twenty twenty three break in. She later pleaded guilty in twenty twenty five to Level one felony conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder and was sentenced to fifty years in Jackson's Circuit Court. But Ashley, being the wonderful, well adjusted human that she was, wasn't finished getting rid of people. After only a few months of incarceration, she hatched a plan. It involved a jailmate named Anita. Detective Nicholson just happened to know Anita.

1:03:56Speaker 4:You know, I worked in the jail for like five years to becoming a deputy in two thousand and five, So from two thousand to two thousand and five, I was a jail officer, so I'm familiar with a lot of the inmates that you know, they're in and out, and you know, this case had been in the news a few times, so I'm sure that Anita probably knew that I was the officer that was working at and she reached out to a jail officer to let her know that she wanted to talk to me. I actually knew that Anita was going to be getting released pretty soon.

1:04:31Speaker 4:She wasn't on like any real serious charges, and Anita and Ashley were in that cell together. Well, word traveled pretty quick when Anita came in, because Ashley had already been in jail, and when Anita came in, word traveled pretty quick about who she was and who her connections were. And there's a I hate to even call it a gang because it's really not a gang. And if they were a gag, they're not into like killing people. It's not that kind of gang. But I think Ashley started, you know, seeing things like she's never been in jail.

1:05:09Speaker 4:She didn't she didn't know, you know, Anita, she didn't know what this gang was about. And she just heard the word gang and thought, well, I could you know, sweet talk her and you know, befriend her in jail here and then get her to have these people that she's friends with in this gang go and kill the people that are mentioned in my case and I'm going to testify against me.

1:05:36Speaker 1:Yep, she was going to have someone in this so called gang go and killed them all.

1:05:45Speaker 2:She basically wrote a letter that.

1:05:49Speaker 4:Was going to go out in Anita's mail, and she gave you know, Anita the letter to put in with her mail, and instead of sealing it, Anita took that part of the letter out and hit it and then waited till she could see me, and she provided me with the letter that Astley wrote, and it was the letter that she wrote to the so called hit man you know, that she thought was a hit man, and that try was wanting him to go all the way to Massachusetts and kill her fiance and kill Steven and Nathan that were in jail. And then there was some other people and I can't remember exactly who else, but yes, she was just trying to get people taken out before they'd have a chance to testify on her.

1:06:38Speaker 1:If you thought the text between Marcia and Ashley were cryptic, wait until you hear about this hit letter. She pretended it was a list of people she wanted prayers for. A prayer list. How spiritual of her.

1:06:53Speaker 15:A lot of things have been on my heart and mind, but I feel the best way to overcome and be set free from it is some prayer. I would like the following people to be added to the prayer list as soon as possible. How the Church lift these people as high as can be to the Lord so everyone may find rest in peace.

1:07:12Speaker 1:She then lists out all the people with their first, middle, and last names, as well as exact locations and what they had done to her, saying that prayer knows no bounds. I mean, you got to give God GPS coordinates for each person you're praying for. Right here's just a snippet of the inmates interview.

1:07:36Speaker 4:No one, did you know that we that we heard or that we thought we heard as we want to make sure as that there was a high power rifle mentioned and maybe two shots.

1:07:47Speaker 2:To the neck right here, she said, goods insteads high hier rifle. Right here, savers every nerve he shows you instantly right here? Okay, so.

1:08:06Speaker 16:Specifically right here, right here.

1:08:12Speaker 1:She points to the base of her skull and to her forehead, saying those are the two places Ashley said would cause instant death when struck with a bullet.

1:08:22Speaker 6:Who was she wanting her to set as she is?

1:08:25Speaker 2:To take out the girl?

1:08:26Speaker 1:And I don't know if you guys heard that. Ashley told Anita to take out Ashley, her fiance and her fiance's little girl. That would be the same little girl who lived with both Ashley's You see, Ashley Jones hated, hated her fiance's little girl, so why not take her out too?

1:09:00Speaker 2:Are at it?

1:09:01Speaker 1:In some of the text messages with Marcia, Ashley said, let her starve. I hate the kid. She just sits and just does nothing, looking fat ugly and stupid. Remember when they used to make fun of family values and the bigots that promoted them. Those were the days. That's all. Just hope Ashley sits in prison for the next fifty years doing nothing but looking fat, ugly and stupid. In the meantime, Detective Adam Nicholson is writing a book on this murder, and who knows if he digs harder, he might find even more bodies full of poison left in Ashley's wake. There's already speculation that she may have killed her ex husband as well. Yeah, he's dead. Detective Nicholson told swords Scale that this was one of the most bizarre cases he'd ever been involved.

1:09:55Speaker 4:With, or that there wouldn't have even been There wouldn't have even been a murder case at all. We would have never found out, like if it wouldn't have been for Ashley's greed, and if Ashley wouldn't have you know, had to have set up this burglary at her mom's house and Stephen getting caught. And so what led me to Stephen was the burglary. It was Ashley's greed. Ashley wanted this burglary to take place, and she trusted that Stephen.

1:10:26Speaker 2:Would do it.

1:10:27Speaker 4:She had no idea her mom had installed a security system. And you know, Marcia would have never reported that the burglary had she known that Stephen knew about the murder. If she knew that Stephen had been told by Ashley about the murder, There's no way that Marshall would have called in on Stephen and turned him in.

1:10:50Speaker 1:Ashley's genius knew no bounds, the strong, independent woman that she was her master plan from inside the prison higher total strate to cross state lines and kill people for her for free. Smart real smart. You know what else is smart? Ordering your murder weapons off Amazon? You know what else is smart? Telling you're flamboyant and loudmouth gay friend that you and your mom murdered someone. You know what else is smart? Staging a fake robbery with that same friend who can't stop talking to steal from your own mother and murder accomplice because you're a greedy, narcissistic, and self centered piece of shit. How's that saying? Go again?

1:11:40Speaker 1:There is no honor amongst cold hearted cunts. I forget. Oh, and before some Karen out there sends me an angry email lecturing me and calling me a sexist for using that forbidden word, realize that words are meant to describe the universe we perceive around us, so we can effectively communicate even the four letter ones. And I can't think of a better word to describe Ashley. She's what that word was made for. I hope you like that. And by the way. Last week we put up a video explaining how I fucked up all the pricing for Sword and Scale television. Well, YouTube demonetized us. So there's only one place on Earth you can find Sword and Scale Television now, and that's Swordinscale dot Com or our app and we lowered pricing to ten dollars to get access to it, which means that you can now get the audio only version of Sword and Scale the podcast on Apple Podcasts for just eight bucks. How do you like them? Apples?

1:13:00Speaker 4:Science, science, science Speak, sence sisic, science spe