Podcast · Tech & Science

Thoughtforms Life

by Michael Levin · English · Tech & Science

A podcast by Professor Michael Levin exploring the frontiers of biology, cognition, and emergence. Engage in conversations about morphogenesis, bioelectricity, and synthetic life — and uncover how intelligence and agency emerge from the most fundamental levels of nature.

New episodes: Weekly
Typical length: 59 min
Latest: 13 Oct 2026
Language: English

Latest episode

13 Oct 2026 · 2 minNew

What are we? Concepts for biology and AI #science #biology #diverseintelligence

This #short is an excerpt from Michael Levin's talk "Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or_3tlEOLj4 produced by https://x.com/DNAMediaEditing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Defining life and machines (00:44) Reductionists versus organicists (01:35) Rethinking machine metaphors PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3pVafx6EZqXVI2V_Efu2uw Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thoughtforms-life/id1805908099 Spotify:…

Play episodeWhatsApp Download

Earlier episodes 29 most recent

11 Oct 2026 · 1 hr 5 min
"Mind-Body Interface: an experimental and Clinical Perspective" by Michael Levin and Karina Kofman
This is a ~1 hour and 4 minutes talk + Q&A that my student and collaborator Karina Kofman ( https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karina-Kofman-2 ) and I gave to the Society for Mind-Matter Research as a keynote talk in acceptance of the best paper for 2025 award (the paper is: https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/imp/mm/2025/00000023/00000001/art00003 ). CHAPTERS: (00:00) Mind and body interface (03:44) Embryonic individuation and plasticity (21:35) Clinical cases and anomalies (41:11) Platonic space of competencies (51:39) Audience questions and answers (57:19) Categories of platonic…
9 Oct 2026 · 1 hr 1 min
"Neuroscience Beyond Neurons: communicating with unconventional minds" by Michael Levin
This is a ~1 hour talk given at a conference on the philosophy and future of neuroscience, so I oriented it around extending the concept of neuroscience: not the study of neural phenomena, but more broadly around how neuroscience of neural and non-neural cells shows a model system for understanding collective intelligence, and using morphogenesis as a stepping stone model system to show us how to do behavioral experiments in unconventional cognitive agents. I didn't have time for any of the biomedical applications of these ideas (lots of other talks about that) but alluded at the end to some…
24 Sep 2026 · 1 hr 3 min
Discussion with Marsha Hewitt (Platonic Space and related ideas)
This is a ~1 hour 3 minute conversation with Marsha Hewitt ( https://www.trinity.utoronto.ca/profiles/hewitt-marsha/ ), who wanted to clarify some issues around the Platonic Space and related ideas from the perspective of her teaching students in her philosophy and psychoanalytic psychology of religion class. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Intersecting philosophy and science (09:52) Ethics of artificial minds (15:47) Structured space of patterns (31:20) Embodiment as a filter (39:36) Dualism versus monism debate (49:51) Agency in developmental biology (56:25) Communicating with alien minds PRODUCED BY:…
22 Sep 2026 · 22 min
"Life, Machines, and a Foundation for Synthbiosis" by Michael Levin
This is a ~21-minute talk titled "Life, Machines, and a Foundation for Synthbiosis" that I gave to the Santa Fe Institute ( https://santafe.edu/ ) conference on "Symbiogenesis in the Age of Machine intelligence" ( https://www.santafe.edu/events/symbiogenesis-in-the-age-of-machine-intelligence-2027 ", September 17 and 18, 2026) CHAPTERS: (00:00) Space of embodied minds (03:03) Rewriting bioelectric set points (06:08) Xenobots and novel beings (12:04) Molecular networks and learning (15:26) Mathematics as information source (18:38) Exploring anatomical morphospace PRODUCED BY:…
21 Sep 2026 · 53 min
Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence by Michael Levin
"Biology, AI, and Diverse Intelligence: what we know and don't know about embodied minds" - a 53-minute talk I gave on what the field of diverse intelligence has to say to AI research (to an audience of non-experts in AI, so it's not very technical on that end). I tried to go a little slower and explain more of the basics and logic. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Defining life and machines (04:16) Expanding the Eden view (07:41) Collective cellular intelligence (15:16) Bioelectricity and goal memories (22:08) Xenobots and novel beings (31:03) Causal emergence and math (41:58) Robotics and cognitive…
13 Sep 2026 · 59 min
A conversation with Andrey Vyshedskiy about the evolution of language and brain development
This is a ~1 hour conversation with Andrey Vyshedskiy ( https://www.bu.edu/prsocial/profile/andrey-vyshedskiy/ ) about the evolution of language, brain mechanisms, implications for autism and developmental disorders, and Andrey's work to develop therapeutic approaches. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Syntactic language network development (05:37) Three levels of comprehension (28:55) Neurobiology of sensitive periods (36:46) Recognizing the syntactic phenotype (42:24) Theory of mind mechanisms (48:51) Future levels of intelligence PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website:…
3 Sep 2026 · 59 min
Conversation #1 with Diego Bohórquez and Mijail D. Serruya: how information moves levels in bodies
This is a ~59 minute working meeting where I introduce two very interesting neuroscientists to each other - Diego Bohórquez ( https://medicine.duke.edu/profile/diego-v-bohorquez ) and Mijail D. Serruya ( https://www.jefferson.edu/academics/colleges-schools-institutes/skmc/departments/neurology/faculty/serruya.html ) and we discuss ideas around how information moves from the molecular to the behavioral level in bodies and how we might be able to interface with that system via technologies that could lead to biomedical applications and deep insight into diverse intelligence. At the end we…
22 Aug 2026 · 56 min
Conversation #1 with Steven Strogatz
This is a ~56 minute conversation with mathematician Steven Strogatz ( https://www.stevenstrogatz.com/ ) covering issues of explanation in mathematics, Platonism, and related questions. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Mathematical explanation and AI (07:28) Reductionism across scientific fields (11:04) Intuition and mathematical deduction (18:31) Geometry versus algebraic thinking (24:32) Euler and negative logarithms (29:38) Mathematical anomalies and patterns (36:26) Scale of mathematical constants (46:55) Nature of fundamental constants (50:08) Pi beyond simple circles PRODUCED BY:…
21 Aug 2026 · 52 min
"Inspiration Across Substrates: free lunches, diverse intelligence and surprise" by Michael Levin
This is a ~52 minute talk on inspiration across substrates and my model of "free lunches" and the Platonic space. CHAPTERS: (00:00) The concept of inspiration (03:47) Defining the free lunch (08:47) Surprising biological plasticity (14:33) Causal emergence in networks (17:05) Competencies of synthetic organisms (25:37) Computational free lunches (33:50) Navigating diverse problem spaces (38:53) The platonic cognitive space (44:00) Ingressions and active patterns (50:16) Future of ethical symbiosis PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website:…
29 Jul 2026 · 1 hr 2 min
Conversation #1 with Alexey Tolchinsky, Anthony Weiss and Chris Fields
This is a ~1 hour conversation on the future of mental health from the perspective of the diverse intelligence field, with Alexey Tolchinsky ( https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=tiBKmrsAAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate ), Anthony Weiss ( https://www.anthonypweiss.com/about-anthony-weiss ), and Chris Fields ( https://chrisfieldsresearch.com/ ). CHAPTERS: (00:00) Psychiatry's stalled progress (04:54) Faulty mental models (11:36) Tools and treatment goals (24:06) Nonlinear living systems (31:21) Energy shaping agency (41:51) Technology entangles minds (53:08) Effort and…
28 Jul 2026 · 1 hr 1 min
Conversation #1 with
This is a ~1 hour working meeting with Thomas Pollak ( https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/thomas-pollak , https://drtompollak.substack.com/ ) and David King ( https://profiles.stanford.edu/361883 , https://breakingconvention.co.uk/performers/dave-king ) about the intersection of neuroscience, mental health, and diverse intelligence research. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Agency in psychiatry (05:14) Mental real estate (10:31) Internal agency mechanics (21:43) Dissociation and multiplicity (30:04) Interfaces and inspiration (38:43) Signals and prostheses (48:18) Psychedelics and entities PRODUCED BY:…
10 Jul 2026 · 54 min
"Diverse Intelligence: new frontier for Origins, Possibilities, and Diseases of Minds by" M. Levin
This is a ~54 minute talk titled "Diverse Intelligence: a new frontier for Origins, Possibilities, and Diseases of the Mind(s)" which I gave for an audience composed of mental health professionals and neuroscientists. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Roadmap and stakes (04:13) Minds as continuum (08:04) Diverse intelligence framework (11:12) Biological plasticity examples (18:18) Morphogenesis as intelligence (22:31) Multiscale cellular agency (26:39) Anatomical problem solving (32:40) Ancient bioelectric networks (35:34) Communicating somatic goals (42:02) Cancer and medicine (46:37) Novel living agents…
27 Jun 2026 · 57 min
"Energy Constraints and Tradeoffs" by Martin Picard
This is a ~57 minute talk titled "Energy Constraints and Tradeoffs: the mitochondrial daily energy expenditure MDEE study" by Martin Picard ( https://www.neurology.columbia.edu/profile/martin-picard-phd ) and a brief set of ideas by me at the end, presaging a full discussion of this for our next meeting. I mentioned these 2 papers: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303264722001435 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/bies.201900245 CHAPTERS: (00:00) Mitochondria energy tradeoffs (52:14) Scarcity coordinates biology (54:44) Anthrobot aging evidence (56:31)…
26 Jun 2026 · 23 min
"Aging, goal-directedness, and bioelectricity" by Michael Levin
This is ~23 minute talk overviewing our recent results and the way we think about aging and longevity. It was for a conference with quite short speaking slots so I had to talk fast... Longer talk coming with more data but this outlines some ideas and overviews our published recent work on aging. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Aging framework overview (01:16) Bodies as setpoints (03:08) Anatomical homeostasis examples (06:40) Bioelectric pattern memory (08:41) Rewriting biological setpoints (12:31) Aging bioelectric fuzziness (14:18) Sharpening brain patterns (17:34) Cognitive aging hypothesis (19:42)…
22 Jun 2026 · 57 min
Computationalism and consciousness with Nic Rouleau, Jaan Aru, and Borjan Milinkovic.
Discussion #2 (57 minutes on computationalism and consciousness) with Borjan Milinkovic ( https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=AwaZbzsAAAAJ&hl=en ), Jaan Aru ( https://scholar.google.de/citations?user=FvFOzS8AAAAJ&hl=en%29 ), and Nicolas Rouleau ( https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=FyOpVTAAAAAJ&hl=en ). CHAPTERS: (00:00) AI consciousness middle ground (04:46) Substrate dependent minds (08:07) Analog computer substrates (13:44) Zombies and digital computers (18:56) Polycomputing and observers (25:01) Felt experience defined (30:08) Action first embodiment (34:08) Causal emergence…
20 Jun 2026 · 50 min
Free Lunches: Model Systems for Studying the Agential Gifts from the Platonic Space by Michael Levin
This is a talk I gave, ~49 minutes long, titled "Free Lunches: Model Systems for Studying the Agential Gifts from the Platonic Space", to a philosophy audience. It covers some more ways I think about the latent space of patterns that in-forms biology and cognitive science. CHAPTERS: (00:02) Research program overview (05:15) Dissolving old categories (10:54) Goal-directed morphogenesis basics (14:11) Rewriting bioelectric patterns (19:23) Novel embodied abilities (23:35) Molecular agency ratchet (27:33) Math and living forms (33:31) Evolutionary accounting breaks (41:04) High agency patterns…
29 May 2026 · 1 hr 59 min
Platonic Space discussion 5
This is a ~2 hour discussion among contributors to the Platonic Space Symposium ( CHAPTERS: (00:00) Strong perception framework (10:12) Perception model boundaries (17:41) Penrose and probabilities (30:57) Quantum interpretations debated (39:28) Probability dynamics and gravity (53:50) Relational observer problem (01:00:30) Dance synchronization physics (01:12:02) Rituals and group flow (01:23:43) Boundaries and agency (01:31:38) Religious possibility spaces (01:46:30) Numbers in theology PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website:…
25 May 2026 · 2 hr 5 min
Platonic Space discussion 4
This is a ~2 hours 4 minute discussion among contributors to the Platonic Space Symposium ( CHAPTERS: (00:00) Strong anticipation analogy (08:16) Relational Platonic patterns (25:06) Finite brains, infinite grammar (40:05) Beauty and compression (51:17) Searching for grammar (01:01:58) Patterns and selfhood (01:14:44) Patterns claiming territory (01:29:28) Markets shape selves (01:43:57) Scaling collective selves (01:55:47) Testing Platonic feedback PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube:…
19 May 2026 · 1 hr 4 min
Discussion #1 with Amahury Jafet Lopez Diaz, Carlos Gershenson-Garcia, and Richard Watson
This is a ~1 hour 5 minute discussion with Amahury Jafet Lopez Diaz ( Carlos Gershenson-Garcia ( and Richard Watson ( Stay tuned for part 2 where Amahury will present his ideas in more detail. Amahury's paper: CHAPTERS: (00:00) Common ground and stakes (06:10) Ontology of platonic space (14:50) Testing separate realms (25:52) Acid tests and metaphors (34:55) Interaction and narratives (44:20) Formal facts alternative (52:38) Experiments and surprise (01:00:29) Closing reframing proposal PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing…
11 Apr 2026 · 1 hr 30 min
A Multiscale Logic of Collective Intelligence" by Donald Hoffman and Chetan Prakash
This is a ~1.5 hour talk + discussion, titled "A Multiscale Logic of Collective Intelligence" by Donald Hoffman ( and Chetan Prakash ( with Robert Chis-Ciure ( and Chris Fields ( and me. CHAPTERS: (00:01) Beyond space-time physics (10:10) Minimal observer participants (18:49) Recursive trace logic (35:08) Actions and trace blankets (43:45) Physics and agency together (52:32) Causal emergence and joins (59:52) Contextuality and quantum logic (01:06:00) Unitarity and positive geometries (01:16:29) Consciousness-first mind theories (01:24:39) Testing models together PRODUCED BY:…
10 Apr 2026 · 59 min
Discussion: Lisa Maroski, Michael Levin, Richard Watson
This is a ~1 hour discussion with Lisa Maroski ( and Richard Watson ( about the role of language in shaping our thinking in the field of diverse intelligence and beyond. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Language and systems thinking (04:25) Parts wholes and resonance (07:34) Who versus what (12:45) Recursion and new structures (17:47) Searching for a word (25:16) Holding multiple polarities (29:41) Nested biological agency (35:42) Patterns and Platonic minds (45:41) Cross-level observers and time (52:45) Knowing and owning beliefs PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website:…
9 Apr 2026 · 59 min
Discussion: Richard Watson, Alexey Tolchinsky, Mark Solms, Michael Levin, and Karl Friston
This is a ~1 hour meeting with Richard Watson ( Alexey Tolchinsky ( Mark Solms ( and Karl Friston ( where we discuss issues of memory (especially, the role of forgetting) in diverse intelligence (human patients and beyond), and a bit on dreams and psychoanalysis. The original question from me was motivated by some findings on the effects of induced forgetting in models of unconventional cognition ( and more coming soon). CHAPTERS: (00:00) Role of forgetting (06:22) Overfitting and generalization (10:45) Accuracy minus complexity (21:13) REM sleep and transference (24:40) Choosing futures and…
3 Apr 2026 · 56 min
Conversation with Nic Rouleau, part 2: neuroscience, memory transfer, aging of cognition, and more
This is a ~55 minute discussion following up on Nic's talk and our brief conversation ( comprising part 2 of a conversation with a really interesting young neuroscientist, as well as friend, collaborator, and our Center member, Nicolas Rouleau ( We cover topics of consciousness, neural decoding, the meaning of neuroscience, memory transfer, cognitive plasticity and its relationship to rejuvenation therapies, intelligence throughout the universe, and the weirdest work Nic has done (he chose his work on memory in Playdoh). For more information: Nic's website: X account: @DrNRouleau Recent…
3 Apr 2026 · 1 hr
Conversation with Nic Rouleau, part 1: "Some thoughts on the mind as material"
This is a ~1 hour talk and discussion, comprising part 1 of a conversation with a really interesting young neuroscientist, as well as friend, collaborator, and our Center member, Nicolas Rouleau ( Nic goes over unconventional aspects of neuroscience touching on free will, cybernetics, consciousness, and a lot more. We start a discussion which is continued in part 2. For more information: Nic's website: X account: @DrNRouleau Recent papers to check out: Sellar, E.P., Rouleau, N. (In Review). A cybernetic framework for synthetic biological intelligence in the era of neural tissue engineering.…
24 Mar 2026 · 59 min
Conversation 2 with Lisa Barrett, Ben Lyons, and Karen Quigley
This is a second conversation with Lisa Barrett ( Karen Quigley ( and Benjamin Lyons ( about Relational Realism, allostasis, and questions of mind/body/behavior. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Rethinking emotion universals (09:34) Brain evolution and allostasis (17:25) Predictive processing and signaling (30:05) Objectivity and first-person science (38:45) Flexible body-world boundaries (45:46) Relational meaning in perception (52:06) Embodiment, morphospace and realism PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube:…
17 Mar 2026 · 1 hr 23 min
Cancer: mitochondria and metabolism - a discussion with Thomas Seyfried and his group
This is a 1hr + 23 minutes talk and conversation with Thomas Seyfried, Derek Lee and Tomás Duraj ( Juanita Mathews from my group ( about their work on the metabolic and mitochondrial aspects of cancer. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Metabolic nature of cancer (08:52) Mitochondrial theory of cancer (34:00) Metabolic therapy in practice (40:39) Mitochondria and morphogenetic fields (45:21) Ion channels and metabolism (53:01) Bioelectric control and regeneration (01:09:03) Mouse versus human models (01:15:19) Mitochondria, aging, and disease PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website:…
5 Mar 2026 · 54 min
"On Biological and Artificial Consciousness" by Borjan Milinkovic and Jaan Aru
This is a ~53 minute talk + 14 minute Q&A titled "On Biological and Artificial Consciousness: a case for biological computationalism" by Borjan Milinkovic ( and Jaan Aru ( CHAPTERS: (00:00) Speaker background and research (03:16) Motivation and philosophical landscape (09:32) Von Neumann architecture (15:39) Computational metaphor in neuroscience (22:52) Metabolic constraints in neurons (29:04) Heterarchy and scale integration (33:55) Empirical scale integration findings (38:00) Hybrid computation in dendrites (43:16) Field-based neural computation (47:48) Implications for synthetic…
5 Feb 2026 · 1 hr 44 min
Platonic Space discussion 3
This is a ~1 hours 44 minute discussion among contributors to the Platonic Space Hypothesis ( https://thoughtforms.life/symposium-on-the-platonic-space/). CHAPTERS: (00:00) Platonic forms and interaction (07:01) Xenobots and evolutionary cost (11:23) Symbiosis, rectifiers, embeddings (18:06) Free lunches in biology (27:59) Topology of competency space (39:53) Exploration, play, affordances (48:01) Markov blankets and evolution (57:51) Relational life and observers (01:04:10) Defining play and plasticity (01:20:35) Thermodynamics and domesticated play (01:29:32) Will to live dynamics PRODUCED…
4 Feb 2026 · 55 min
Conversation with Darren Iammarino #1
This is a ~54 minute conversation with Darren Iammarino ( https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=YNrxRaYAAAAJ&view_op=list_works) about open problems with respect to the Platonic Space model. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Patterns, minds, and causation (09:18) Interfaces and positive pressure (21:50) Randomness and new universals (31:21) Quantum randomness and scale (39:16) Cyborg minds and identity (50:18) Unconventional minds and substrates PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Podcast Website: https://thoughtforms-life.aipodcast.ing YouTube:…

About Thoughtforms Life

Thoughtforms Life is a English tech & science podcast from Michael Levin. Melo plays each episode straight from the publisher's own feed — no ads added, no account needed — and remembers where you stopped, in this browser only.

Publisher: Michael Levin
Language: English
Category: Tech & Science
New episodes: Weekly
Typical length: 59 min
Latest episode: 13 Oct 2026
Feed: RSS — paste into any podcast app
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1805908099

RSS feed Apple Podcasts

More English tech & science

Take it with you

The Melo app keeps playing with the screen off, works in the car and on your watch, wakes you to your station, and browses the whole catalogue offline. Free, no ads, no account.