#295: Millennial Time Capsule

0:00Elsie You're listening to the A Beautiful Mess podcast your cozy comfort listen. I'm your host, Elsie Larson. Emma And I'm your host, Emma Chapman. Elsie This week, we're entering a world with no iPhones, no internet, no apps, no online shopping, no social media or streaming, and no smart tech of any kind. Yes, we're traveling to a world where you get advice from magazines, information from encyclopedias and and to speak to someone, you have to pick up a phone and dial actual numbers. So this is our millennial Time Capsule episode, everything that will die with millennials. Release your inhibitions. Feel the rain on your skin.

0:10Emma Yeah, and if all the things we just said sound like so old to you, like a time before when you were born, you are probably some of our youngest listeners, because this is all stuff that's just normal from our childhood. Elsie Welcome, welcome. We're your aunties. Gather around, welcome youngsters. We have stories from the 1900s to share. I just went prom dress shopping with my little niece, and I was trying to describe to her. I will more in this episode, but the 1990s mall and how vastly superior it was.

0:18Emma It really was. And it's so annoying when old people like us say that the past was better, right? But then you become one of those old people and you're like, ah, but it was. Elsie I don't necessarily think the past is better, but I think that these we so we made a list of things, not every that we have nostalgia for, that we miss from the 1900s I love saying 1900s let's say that as many times the 1900s it's just so funny. And you know, these are memories that millennial people are the last living people. We will be the last living people on this planet who have these specific memories. So I think they're special. And I would like to somehow enter this podcast episode into the time capsule archive for your consideration. If you're an alien 500 years in the future, this is a good place to start to just see, like the end of the 20th century United States, millennial woman perspective.

0:29Emma All right, first up and possibly most important on the list, magazines and specifically magazines at Borders Bookstore. Elsie Yes, I put borders like, I mean, because you can still go to Barnes and Noble, you can still get your stack of magazines, you can still sit at the I don't do it anymore, though, and this used to be like, one of my main activities when I first got my driver's license. Through most of my 20s, I would go to the bookstore, get a stack of magazines, and then get a coffee and then just sit there and literally read them for hours. And that was where we got our style advice, our, you know, early advice about sex and kind of ever like those stuff that you get from call her daddy nowadays. People used to watch magazines, yeah, Cosmopolitan. I mean, our culture, fashion, we're from Missouri. We don't have those things.

0:41Emma There wasn't really online shopping. So you couldn't even, like, look, you know, what they were selling to girls on the coast. You had to see it in the magazines, you know? Elsie You had to call and order something, or, like, wait till you went on a trip to a bigger city if you wanted, like, Emma had this, like, trendy Dooney person High School, like, things like that, you know, yeah, yeah. And I had a, one of my proudest moments. I had a mail order blow up bed, yeah, the Delia's catalog, and I'm still proud of that.

0:49Emma That was cool. You were very cool. You've always been. Elsie It was very loud and it was very unpleasant to sleep on. It was no good, but it was neat. It was a good it was an ease. It was neat, but I made mom and dad get rid of my real bed. Emma That was a mistake. That was the Oopsie. Yeah, and there's still magazines. Every now and again, I still buy them at the grocery store when I'm in the line, especially around the holidays, because I'll be like holiday cookies. And do I need more recipes for holiday cookies? No, but I like being inspired, and I like being surrounded by, you know, magazines, frankly. And so I put them on the coffee table. I got one for Marigold.

1:00Elsie She loves baking. There are still magazines, but it's no longer the magazine era, no. And when we were younger, you know, our main we've always been little, even as teenagers, we were little Martha Stewart Ina Garten, children, yes, like, we've just kind of born that way, yeah. And, like, very in a green Gable synergy. So, yeah, there used to be three different Martha Stewart magazines, four, four, I can think of four. She's an icon at one time, you know, every month. And yeah, they were just incredible. So one time during covid, you know, covid was a, was a weird time. I got on eBay and I ordered. A couple $100 worth of, like, nostalgic early 2000s Martha Stewart magazines. Like all of her she had this Kids magazine that was really beautiful. That was my favorite. And then I mean the wedding issue, if you got married during the magazine era, Martha Stewart weddings. Was it? That was it? I have a lot of her books too, from thrift books. She's passed 100 books, I think. But I like also collecting her old magazines, like, specifically from the 90s. So if you are a nostalgic person, like, honestly, it's like three

1:12clicks away on eBay, you can still get all this stuff. So my personal Holy Grail is her Halloween issues, where she's in costume every year. That's my collection. I think they're just, they're just amazing, like, they're so iconic. Emma I have a book from the 90s that's like, Halloween, Martha Stewart, Halloween. Elsie Do you remember when we, so one time we were in real simple magazine, and the photographer had shot a Martha Yes, Halloween cover. And we, like, we have never been more annoyingly starstruck.

1:20Emma We were just like, question, question, question, just, and they're like, Okay, stop. And we're like, no, yeah. As I was writing the wedding photographer, I so it's set in, like, 2014 2013 2014 2015 2014 is like, the season it takes place. Anyway, I was on eBay buying Martha Stewart wedding from that era, and I had them in my office because I wanted to make sure, like the vibes, the feeling of that time, you know. So anyway, and I used a lot of like the cocktail inspiration. There's a lot of cocktails in the book, and, yeah, it's very fun. It's amazing fun to go down memory lane in that way. Yes, Okay, moving on for magazines.

1:28Elsie Malls in the 1990s Okay, so malls have changed. If you haven't been to one in a while, you need to go, because they are an endangered species. They are at the end of their life. I mean, you know, no one knows the future, but I will predict that it's not more than 10 years away. What would you say? Yeah, probably. So at our mall in we're in Missouri, where we lived in our and we don't live near big cities. We kind of need this mall. Emma We are the big city for all the surrounding areas.

1:36Elsie People travel to our city from, you know, a few hours around. We no longer have, like, almost any stores that we used to have, like just any of the like, the main stores where you would shop at. We don't have any of them. It's pretty much just still a great food court. Dilla Sephora, Emma uses the play place very frequently. There a lot as little kid, you'll see me, and you know, there's a couple of department stores that are still kicking and there's a couple of unique things. Like, in one part of our mall, they, someone just opened a locally owned record store. So I was like, Okay, well, maybe we'll go more in this store.

1:44Emma There's also glow putt putt golf. Elsie We have a lot of like those jungle Jimmy type of yeah kids things. Emma We have an Urban Air attached to our mall. So that's so it's definitely, like, leaning towards kids stuff, I guess. Elsie But anyway, overall, it's like a little bit of a sad vibe. A lot of things are closed, and we have a lot of stores where it's like the big sign in the window that says, like, everything is under $5 like, things like that. So anyway, I told Jeremy that when because we recently lost our Starbucks at the mall. And we were like, when will we know it's kind of like almost over, over. And I was like, when Angie Ann's closes, that will be the mile marker where it's like, wrap this up. But anyway, let's talk about malls in the 1990s and how they were different. So recently on Tiktok, hopefully everyone can find their own city. But I found these old pictures of our Springfield, Missouri, our two malls, the North Town Mall and the battlefield Mall. And the battlefield mall is still there. It's the sad one we were just describing, and the North Town Mall has been closed and turned into a Walmart, like 20 years ago, long time ago, yeah, but

2:01when we were children, they were both lively malls with their own movie theaters and their own food courts. And there was a bunch of things that I didn't remember that used to be there. So my vivid memories from childhood mall, okay, three things, orange Julia's had its own, like, whole store, yeah, and there was a pet store with puppies. Oh, I don't remember that when I was a little kid, yeah, there was a pet store, so that would be in the 80s, pet store with puppies, which just like I feel about that anyway. I know pet stores are bad and controversial, but it also was like childhood magic for me.

2:07Emma Yeah, what kid doesn't want to hold puppies, yeah? Or anyone, anyone, ever. Elsie And the other thing that's really weird that I didn't remember is gone now is there was these huge water fountains in, like, the center, the sort of, like The Walking spaces, where people would grow pennies and stuff, and they were just these big square, you know, you know, just water fountains, more than one. And then there was also, like, a lot of, like, plant like. Life, and, yeah, all of that is gone now, and it's just anyway. So if you can, I think it's definitely worth trying to find historic photos of your own Mall.

2:15And just like, try to find, like, 80s and 90s pictures, just to remember, like, the stores that have closed. Emma And it kind of makes me think about how, because I'm like, Oh, I wish we had some pictures, you know, like times we were there with our grandma or whatever, and I'm like, oh, okay, well, not to self, I should definitely take pictures of, like, the normal, boring things in my kid's life, because that's going to be their nostalgia one day, you know. Because I'm like, Oh, yeah. And I mean, I do that, but I'm also like, oh, I should, you know, need to get more photos of them in that mall play place.

2:22Elsie I think it's a good idea. There's this one store specifically called Gadzooks, where I used to shop in high school. And I would like do anything for like, full I feel like I can still really see it in my mind. And I can almost, like, walk around with my eyes closed, my own little meditation in this store, it was just like a very like, you know, like the kind of clothes it would be like, boyfriend who listens to Nirvana and girlfriend who listens to lannis Morissette. So that's the vibe of the store, like alternative, but also, like, a little bit cutesy.

2:29Emma It wasn't a Spencer's, it was Gadzooks. Elsie Yeah, it wasn't hot topic, yeah, a little bit, but, like, but more colorful, more I don't know. Emma I was a 579, girl. I don't know if I remember that store. That was a great store too, yeah, a lot of plastic clothes, lot of, like, wanted to dress like, clueless, yeah, kind of thing. Elsie So Emma's Coming of Age movie was definitely clueless, definitely yes, she had a lot of like, fur trimmed, yes, crushed velvet, anything in that movie.

2:39Emma I wanted to dress like that. Elsie Yes, no, I still do. I still do too. Okay, let's talk about AOL chat. So AOL chat, is that what it was called? I don't know. Emma I don't remember doing a lot of chat, to be honest. Elsie There was two of them. I can't remember which one's which, but someone will tell us. But did it have the CD ROM? Emma Like, that's how you started it, like, I had a so DVD. Elsie Remember it? Is it? This was mostly in high school, and then, like, college age, and then I think the world kind of stopped doing it, but it was like this little chat program that you could open up where you had your friends added, and you could see if other people were online, and they always were. We had some friends, like some little, like boys from our church and stuff, who were always on there. So then you would just like, you know, be like, Hi, what are you doing? What are you doing, you know, just like, talk a little little kind of, like texting, I guess, but like, it's, I think what was cool about it is that it was like, you both had to be on at the same time, and it's limited time. And this was at a time when the internet

2:59was still, like, connected to our, like, phone line, so anytime someone was using the internet, then the phone wouldn't work and it was giving the busy signal. So there was, like, strict time limits on it, was more excited we had, like, the computer room. Emma So, like, the computer was in our parents room on a desk, and you'd have to go in there to use it. It wasn't like, you all had your own computer, you know, like, I think a lot of families had that where was, like the computer room, yeah, it was, like, in the basement or in like, a certain area, and only one person can use it at a time.

3:07Elsie So I remember that that was fun, and just like a moment in time that went away quickly. The next is maps. So like basically driving without phone instructions, or out of phone map, driving with a paper map. Emma Do your remember Mapquest directions? So that's sort of the in between. Oh, yeah. Print it out. Direct. Print it out, directions. Yeah, that's the in between of the two. Yeah. I remember when I went to I was telling you this, I'll see I went to London. I was 20, so it was like a summer semester during school. I, like, you know, wanted to be one of those college kids. Anyway, you were, I was, I did it, and I didn't have a cell phone that summer. I had one normally, but I didn't have, like, the internet, like, that was, like, a million dollars or something. I didn't have a cell phone that summer. So I used paper maps to get around London. And I would just pull it out of my little backpack and, like, look at what street I was going down, and be like, Nope, this isn't and turn around and go, you know, wherever. And I had to use, you know, signs in the underground to, like, navigate the underground and get where I wanted to go.

3:21And I remember it being not hard at all. It was no problem. It was no big deal. And then fast forward, years later, Elsie and I take our mom to New York, and I don't know what, how old we were then older, and I'd had cell phone. I'd have cell phone for years. Elsie We ere probably like, 30. Emma I'd had cell phone for years, and we went to go use the subway, and I was like, I can't do this. I have no idea how to do this. We're gonna have to get a taxi. And it was like, just so I was like, wow, what's wrong with my brain? Because, like, I didn't know anything about the subway system in England before I went there, I didn't know about the underground. I mean, I knew what the underground was. Just figured I didn't know how to do it, though, and I just figured it out. And then later I was like, Oh, my brain, I cannot figure this out. I don't know if the New York one's way harder. I don't think it is. I just like, my brain can't do this anymore. I like, have a phone that tells me where to go now.

3:34Elsie Yeah. I mean, don't you think it's like, the necessity is the mother of invention thing? And, like, I know a lot of people think right now that AI is making us dumber, and it is, but I think our phones have been making us dumber for a while. Emma Yeah, for other reasons, obviously they have. Elsie But we're losing our survival skills. Emma What I will say, that's my story of like, Wow, I can't do this anymore because I just use my phone. I don't know how to do this now. So anyway, yeah, but yeah, paper maps. That was the thing. When I lived in LA, I was slightly older than that. I was like, 21, 22, 23 I did have a GPS. I think it was a tom tom. Was the name of the brand, I want to say, but it was in my car. But so it wasn't my my phone. Didn't have it. I didn't have an iPhone yet, but I had that, but I still had a paper map in my car, because every now and again, the GPS, the tom tom was wrong, and you would have to pull out the paper map and, like, figure out there was a certain part of, I want to say, Burbank, that just it didn't notoriously, all my friends knew, like, you have to use the paper map when you go to this one part, because it never worked anyway.

3:51What a time, what a time, what a time to be alive. Elsie Okay, let's talk about landline phones. So my children kind of know what a phone they kind of know what a landline phone is. I don't know if they've ever used one, like, it's like a relic now, and I don't know. I think it's, like, really funny how quickly this went extinct, because I don't think I know anyone that has a landline phone. Like, not my grandma. I can't think of of one person who has one.

3:57Emma I can't think of anyone. I've had friends mention they're considering getting one for various reasons. Elsie Yeah, because I've thought about it. But I think there's a way now you can, like, attach it to your cell phone bill, but like, the Yeah, this was a different time. This was, like, the phone book era. The most important things to know about landlines. This is for the aliens in the future. Are that first of all, the whole house is one line. If someone is using the phone, especially they're having a long phone call, it's making it where that phone has a busy signal and no one else can call the house. So when you have, like, teenage daughters, like our parents did, who, like, want to talk to boys for hours, which we did, then that is a problem. It's sometimes a big problem. And then the other big problem is that, like, if someone was very quiet about, you know, they could, you could have, like, you have the bedroom phone, and you have the kitchen phone, and I know we had a basement phone, you could, like, go in a different part of the house. You could click, why quietly click on the phone, and you could listen to

4:10someone else's entire conversation, as long as you didn't, like, cough or make any noise and they and you could get away with that like, that is a different time, and I think it's wonderful. I always want to, I always wonder, like, who all listened to my little boyfriend phone calls when I was in high school because someone had to. Emma I'm sure our parents were like, who cares? They probably didn't even bother. They probably didn't. Here's my story about landlines. Okay, so when I was in college, I lived at home and I didn't have a cell phone, or I had a cell phone on and off. I don't really remember, to be honest, but I definitely didn't have an iPhone. So anyway, I, you know, dated here and there, and when I would give boys my number, I would tell them, This is my home number. I live at home. And I had one boy all the other boys. No problem. One boy was like, what if your dad answers? And I was like, you just say hi and ask for me.

4:21And he was like, like, he couldn't handle it, and so he would only message me on MySpace. Oh God. And that boy grew up to be a man who is my husband now. Elsie Oh no. Oh no. Emma He was just too scared to talk to my dad. I was like, He's not a scary man. You haven't met him yet, but he's not. He's just a nice dad. You'll just be like hello. Is Emma there? Not a big deal. Elsie I love it. Oh my gosh. Okay, the next one listening to an album start to finish on the first day it came out.

4:30So this assumes that at like, eight o'clock in the morning, you get in your car, you drive to a place that sells CDs, you buy one. Obviously, you know you I always try the day before, because everyone swore they put them out early. Emma You always tried the day before. Elsie And then on the way home, you can start and yeah. Like, I think that there's such a wonderful thing about listening to an album all the way through. And obviously, like, you can still do this, like Spotify, that's an option, but it's just, like, not as intuitive and common as it used to be, because it used to be almost like forced on you. And also you bought each piece of music separately, so I think we did put more value on like, the album you just bought. Like, you're not just gonna listen to one song, you're gonna listen to the whole. Thing you're gonna get to know it as a library.

4:42Emma Yeah, this song comes after this song. Elsie And I can, like, pretty distinctly tell the top, like, the albums that I knew before that era and the albums that I knew after the streaming era. Like, because, you know, the song order, it's, like, ingrained. Emma There's certain songs I listen to, and I'm like, expecting this other song to play next, and then if it doesn't, I'm kind of like, jarred, yeah. And I'm like, oh yeah. I'm not listening to a CD in my car, and it's not 2002 you know, I'm like, Oh yeah.

4:51Elsie It was an ultimate comfort. So yeah, that's why we got our our 10 year old a CD player, and they have them now, and I think they're becoming kind of retro, like the way we used to start, we started collecting records when we were in college, like, kind of like that. Like they're now, kids are into CDs. I saw some kids on Tiktok who had, you know, like the fancy CD players where they, like, go up and down, like an elevator. Yeah, they had those, and they thought that was cool. And I was like, great, that's great.

4:57Emma Yeah, I love it. Oh my gosh, that's very cool. Elsie But yeah, I think that listening to album The whole way through without skipping is like a lost art, and we should all try to do it once in a while. Emma And then, do you remember scheduling your entire life around your favorite TV show. Anyone? Elsie Do I ever. Or just, like, sometimes you got a new job or something happened and you had to just, like, drop off the map or something, yeah, and it was just out of your life and you couldn't. There was no other way to access TV than watching it when it came on at the correct time.

5:08Emma I remember moments too, where I, like, got home from work and I didn't have time to, like, make myself a snack before it started. So I just sat down and watched it and waited until the first commercial to go get a snack, even though I was like, starving because I was like, I don't want to miss the, you know, the beginning part. Elsie So I seriously think that part of our introvert origin story was watching the TGIF lineup on Friday nights when we were in high school because we liked it so much that we didn't want to go places.

5:16Emma I always looked forward to Friday night staying home and as a family, we watched TGIF and eating pizza or whatever, Chinese. But yeah, yeah, no, that's still to me what Friday night should be still in my mind. Elsie It's wonderful, yeah. And that I've tried to explain it to the to my children, like, they do not this is one thing they do not get. Like, they don't get how you could only watch a TV show one hour a week, like, it's, it's just too it's too much. It's too much for their little minds. And we'll never go back to that. I don't think so. I think it's, it's an interesting phenomenon.

5:25Emma The other day, I was watching a PBS show with Oscar, Dinosaur Train for all the parents anyway. And he was like, No, not that episode, Mom, this episode. Like he picks out an episode because you can see them all in the app. And I was like, Oscar, when I was a kid, you never got to pick the episode. It was just on when it was on. And he was just like, you know, like, it meant nothing to him. He's a four year old. What am I teaching him? Oh, I felt like such an old person right now. But I was just like, he's just always like, not that one mom, this one. I'm like, when I was a kid, there was none of this. It just was on. You watched it. That was it, anyway.

5:33Elsie Okay, this is one of the things that we really miss and have immense nostalgia for, is like, just the feeling that no one could reach you. Yeah, it was so common, like, I'm going outside to pull weeds in my parents garden, no one can reach me. I'm not worried about I'm walking to the park, I'm going to the store, I'm going to the mall, I'm going to the thrift shop, you know, like, anywhere you go, no one could reach you. The only way people could reach you is if when you were at home, and they could call, you know. So, yeah, and Emma was like, now I have to have pockets every day.

5:40Emma So I have two different brands of yoga pants, and the ones that I really like don't have pockets, and it's a real problem for me, because if I put them on, I like to wear yoga pants sometimes, because I play a lot on the ground with my kids, especially our one year old, and it's just comfortable. It's nice. But I'm like, Oh no, these ones don't have pockets, so I won't have my phone with me all day, which I kind of like, because my kids will, like, want to, you know, if I pull out my phone, my one year old is like, oh, show me videos on the phone. That's like, he thinks that's what it is. It's like to look at videos of him and his brother or whatever. So I actually don't like to have my phone out in front of my kid at all, but I know that if someone calls me, there's certain people in my life who get kind of annoyed that I don't answer.

5:49And like, I get it, but I miss the days when it was never expected. It wasn't like you should have your phone with you all the time. It's like that wasn't possible. So no one expected that. And now you have, you know, I don't know if you have anyone in your life, friends or family members, who feel like they kind of expect you to always have it. It, and I'm like, I just don't like that, because sometimes my yoga pants don't have pockets. Elsie Okay, I'm doing my best. So anyway, yeah, no, I miss, I miss the feeling that no one could reach you. I will say I don't care if someone doesn't text me back for three days. I don't care, and I don't care if someone doesn't see my DM or whatever. Like, I think that that's normal, but I think some people do care, and it like, It stresses them out, yeah? And it stresses me out, the expectation, yes, that some people are really bothered by that stuff, and it's like, kind of hard to tell actually, like, who cares and who doesn't? And like, if I you know you don't, I don't, whatever. Yeah, okay, yeah. It like you have to make sacrifices if you decide to be on your phone less. And like, part of that is, like, making other people mad

6:02or sad, which is hard. Emma It is because it's like, I don't want to stress anyone out. I don't want to add anyone's anxiety. But also I don't want to carry around my phone constantly. I just don't so, yeah, it's, it's tough. Elsie Anyway. Okay, so this is a big one. Toys R Us, the Toys R Us, store, the idea of Toys R Us, the Toys R Us commercials, and also toy commercials in general. Like all of that, I have so much nostalgia for as a child and I and I'm sad that my kids don't really have a toy store on that scale. Like the best toy store we have in our town is at Barnes and Noble, which our kids aren't actually. This is sad, but they got banned from it. Now, we now it's only a bookstore to us again.

6:12Emma By you or by? Elsie Us, because it caused problems that we weren't able to go in there and just look at the books. Yes. So we now we have it where it's only allowed on birthdays and occasions and it's not for every day. Emma Yeah, we have, we have ongoing issues. I think that's the whole childhood thing, yeah. Like, is today a day we buy a toy, or no, you know? Elsie I don't know when we were kids, like, Toys R Us was a big store. It was magical. And when it when, and even, like, when our niece was a kid, you know, it was still there. Like, I remember going to it not that long ago, like, I think it was, like maybe the year before we adopted Nova, or sometime around that time when it was because I was when I lived in Nashville. So it wasn't that long ago, but now it's gone forever, and it is weird, like I just feel sad that I never got to walk through Toys R Us with my kids, and they never saw it. And unless we go to, like, New York or somewhere a bigger city, we're probably not going to go to like, you know, the big toy store and home alone like that doesn't exist.

6:28Emma Home Alone. Yeah, on a parenting note, I will say it is kind of nice to have a store where it's like, we go here to buy toys, and when we're at this other store, like Michael's. We come here to buy craft supplies, art supplies, and I feel like when they get mixed, because even the grocery store will have some toys. Some of them do. Some of them don't, but some of the ones we go to have toys. And it makes sense that it's confusing for kids to be like, well, there, I know there's toys in this store, but you're saying, I can't have one today, but last time I could, so it is like, this thing. So then you're like, Oh, now we have to have to have this conversation each time, which is fine, it's part of parenting, and it's part of them learning, and that's fine, but it is kind of nice to have a place where it's like, this is the place we go to buy a toy, whereas, like you're saying with Barnes and Noble, my kids call that the bookstore. Yeah, there are other bookstores, but that's what, just what they call it. And they so they think of it as a bookstore, but they're slowly Oscar figuring out the toy area. And I'm like, Oh, this is a little bit of a tricky

6:40and if I ever let them buy a toy, then it's really going to be hard, because it's like, now it's confusing to them anyway. So yeah, that. And then I'll also say on Toys R Us. Recently I watched roof, man, did you see that movie? Oh, it has Channing Tatum and Kirsten Dunst. It's fairly new. I think it came out in the last three years, last few years. I don't know. It's based on a true story. So if you like a quirky true crime, this is not a serial killer thing. It's just like quirky True Crime type thing. Definitely watch this. I thought it was so charming. So it's about a man who escapes from prison and he hides out in a Toys R Us. And so a lot of the movie, he's like, in the Toys R Us, like, after hours, and, you know, and it's a true story.

6:47And in the movie, we looked it up afterwards, pretty true to what really happened. Like, most of it very, very true. And, yeah, it was very good movie and very fun. And also, my own little heart was like, I'm kind of getting to see Toys R Us again, which is, like, this whole thing that doesn't exist anymore. So it was fun. Elsie Yeah, the commercials, you can still find the old commercials on YouTube, but I don't know. I, like, loved that stuff as a kid. Like, when you I don't know, like, a whole aisle of Barbies where it's, like, as far as I can see, yeah, like, It's magical. It is. And, yeah, I hope I don't know I would like to take my kids to a big Toys R Us, but maybe, yeah, maybe eventually we'll find something. Okay, our last one. Okay.

6:56Remember computer labs? Emma Yeah, computer labs. Elsie This is so funny, because I actually, like my kids, do have computer. Lab at school, right? So they kind of like, I feel like this is one that, like, maybe a little bit we'll get to share, but yeah, like, for us, we were talking about, like, in college, I did not have a laptop my entire college experience yet. It just wasn't a thing that you had, or most people had yet at that time. And so I would just go into the library or go into the computer lab and write my long ass emails to, like, my friends and, you know, like, stay connected that way. And, like, I don't know, somehow I, like, knew every single person's email. Maybe that was just what we did in that time. I also didn't have a cell phone, but, yeah, it was, like, a lot of correspondence through emails. And I kind of miss that time, because I felt for a long time that my email box is kind of not that fun anymore, like it's not this place with like these, like deep actually, actually, okay, I will take it back. My newsletter has brought it a little more exciting.

7:10Emma Look forward to Katie did newsletter, Elise's newsletter and your newsletter. And that's kind of like, Oh, my friends, you know, are talking about something. You know, art or Katie's is about more, like habits and so, yeah, those are, like, my happy and other than that, I'm just like, opening it, looking for, has anyone checked in on my queries? You know, like, whatever. Elsie Yeah, yeah. When you're querying your email does become, like, kind of a weird place.

7:17Emma You get a weird relationship with it all of a sudden. Elsie it's like, I'm addicted to it, but also I'm scared. And yeah, I don't know, I miss the time when, like, now I feel like a lot of people do these long feelings messages on social media, and it can be so awkward when you see one that someone wrote, like, six months ago, but you're seeing it for the first time. Like, I hate that. It's one of the things I wish I could fix. Yeah, that is not fixable in this world. So yeah, I think bring back emails, and, if possible, also bring back written letters. Like I used to write letters to my friends. And, like, I want to bring that back, too. I think it's especially when you've read the correspondent, it's like, hell yeah. Like, I want to write letters to people. I think it's a wonderful thing to do, and I love to receive a handwritten letter. So, yeah, anything but a DM, anything but a long DM.

7:28Emma No, I also felt like, mostly in college, I guess, but the computer lab almost felt like the laundromat in a way, because, like, you would run into people, yeah, it was almost like a social watering hole type so I would go to the computer lab to do my homework and need the internet or whatever, you know, and I would run into a friend and we chat for a minute. Kind of same thing, like when I lived in apartment that had the laundry room in the basement, it's like, I would usually run into someone from the building, and we would chat a little bit as we would do our laundry. And same thing with the computer lab, and it was, and it's kind of like a coffee shop thing, like, it's similar, because now everyone goes to a coffee shop with their laptop or whatever, but the computer lab was almost like a place where you'd run into a friend before you do your homework, or they're finishing up their homework or whatever. You know, anyway, I love it.

7:39Elsie Okay, well, that was our millennial time capsule. We welcome your emails with more. We can maybe do a part two someday. I think it's a super fun subject. And yeah, hopefully it has you thinking about the things that have gone extinct in your lifetime, because there's, there's gonna be some for all of us. Yeah, things you miss, things you're glad they're gone. You know, there's all kinds of different things, things that now you have that you can't believe you've ever lived without before. Okay, so next we have a question about AI from Dana.

7:46Emma Dana says, I'm interested in hearing more about your thoughts personally and businessy on AI specifically as it relates to your blog and intellectual property, you've mentioned its impact on your business, but on the last episode, you mentioned entering in a class action lawsuit. Would love a deep dive on business impacts lawsuits, personal feelings about big tech ripping off your work. I'm mad about it. She puts in parentheses and whatever you say about protecting your work. IP in these times.

7:52Elsie Cool. Yeah, you want to go first. This is a big subject. Emma Yeah, well, I guess let's start. I'm kind of like, Okay, what if someone's just showing up for the first time? I was trying to think of it that way, even though we obviously talk to you guys as if you know everything, okay. I'm like, okay, so if you're showing up for the first time, how has AI impacted our business and us like, personally, slash, which, to me, is like business, because it's my livelihood. So I guess let's say that, for anyone who doesn't know.

8:00Elsie So our blog, a beautiful mess, has been our source of income for almost 20 years. I mean, it's been extremely successful. It's in its flop era right now, and it still gets around a million views a month. So it's been successful for a long time, and it's like a great blog, but in the last two years it has started, like crumbling into the ocean, like, in a way that's like, very quick and very devastating, because of the Google changes with AI snippets. Ai snippets, yeah, so I. The last few years before that, we worked super hard. I mean, like, I cannot state how super hard we did, a grind that lasted about three years trying to get our blog the best possible SEO positions. So when you google like, we still have some like, top top spots. When you Google certain recipes, there's one blog that's up at the very top, and that person receives a significant amount of traffic and money for popular recipes. So we were just trying to get some of those for many, many years, and it was our main priority. And it was there was a time when it kind of became the only thing that had potential on our site. Like a lot of people, I think maybe I'm

8:12going too deep into this, but we did what we had to do to make money. Emma It was a business. It still is. Elsie Yeah, yeah. We are. Our main priority was, you know, sustaining our income. And at the time, we still had employees and stuff. So anyway, when Google started adding in the AI snippets, we were like, suspicious at first. And at first it wasn't causing, like, huge drop offs, but it was like, it kind of did. It did. And there was a point when we lost half our traffic, like we had been working for years. We really wanted to get to 5000 sorry, 5 million page views a month, and we got to 2,000,002 summers ago, and then it dove off a cliff and went way, way, way down. And it was like, it was very heartbreaking, because, you know, we worked for that for that for years, and then over the process of the last year, Google started providing whole recipes in the AI snippet, so that now you don't have to click on any blog to get a recipe for kind of anything you want. And you know, everyone knows that you can't trust AI for recipes, but at the same time, it's a way to get the recipe without clicking into a blog with ads so it's

8:26appealing to people, and it does significantly change. Emma Or if you have one question. Like, if you're like, I'm making air fryer meatballs, how long should I cook them at 400 degrees? You're just wanting, like, one question like that, then I feel like, AI snippets, answer it really quickly. And for the record, I think it is a good product for the consumer overall, because I think it can, sometimes, yeah, answer the questions very quickly. And, like, kind of consolidate research so that you very quickly can get an overview of something. You can get the cliff notes, and the computer did it for you. And so, like, that's a good product for consumers. I think people use them clearly, and they're very useful, but they've been devastating for our industry, for blogging, so for publishers.

8:36Elsie And you know, obviously like the information that's in the recipe, because it's, it's now it's getting better to where it usually shares correct recipes, because it's kind of just stealing the information from the blogs. So, you know, the information has to come from somewhere. And to be fair, like we didn't invent popular recipes either, but we went through the work of, like, creating them, honing that, you know, like we made we made it in real life. We tested it. And AI can't do that, you know. We give like tips.

8:42Emma When I made it this thing happened, this, you know, stuff that might help you as a home cook. And AI doesn't do that because he, he doesn't cook, yeah, because he's got eater. Yeah, he does a lot of things, but he doesn't cook. Elsie So he just kind of repeats, repeats what we said. And then we went to a blogging conference last year, and every single session, because we were kind of like, okay, well, what's next? What can we do to evolve and like, sort of like, keep going. And every single session was like, Don't lose heart. It might not keep go like it was, like, every single session was about how AI is inevitably going to ruin this industry, and you just need to hang on for as long as you can. So at that point, we stopped making as many new recipes every month because there was no longer the same potential anymore. So, yeah, it kind of ended that part of our career. And I think the class action lawsuit was just, you know.

8:54Emma We're in two class action lawsuits, okay, do you want to explain we're in one with the company that does our ads, which is called reactive, you know, as you know, if you know what a class action lawsuit is, it's like lots and lots and lots of different people. You're just a part of a big, big group. So it's not like we're super duper involved in it, but we are a part of it. And it's because, you know, the search, or any AI, they were trained on content that was available. But it's, you know, it's kind of being ripped off. So we're a part of one for that, and then the other one we're a part of is for our books. So we have three nonfiction books that were written a long time ago, and you can look up the list of what AIS were trained on, what books they were trained on. Two of our books are on that list. So you know, like many authors and creators nonfiction and fiction, we're. Part of a class action lawsuit that has to do with that. I think it just got settled. I don't know what the numbers are for it. We're not going to make a ton of money from it, or anything, more than anything, to me, being a part of both of them was just to say we feel the way

9:06that these were trained was a rip off and wrong, and we want you know that to be known. But it's not like we're making a ton of money from it. We're certainly not. But I think that it's important that the companies that, you know, train their AI models on real content that people worked to create. You know, there is some compensation and some justice, I suppose. So you could look at it that way. So it was important to us in that regard. So that's why we're a part of those two. But yeah, our blog is like, never going to be the same, and it's a bummer. I think we both have had our own grief cycles with it, and I still feel it. Sometimes. We had to let go of our last employee who'd been with us for 10 years last year, and it's in large part because we can't sustain a staff because of the way AI has affected our blog, and that sucks really bad, and I really don't like it, but it's the reality we're living in. You know, as far as, like, I feel like Dana's question was also, like, kind of like, personal feelings about big tech, things like that, and I don't really feel like I hate AI like, I don't really feel like I hate technology. I don't like when, like, you

9:17know, I don't like the feeling of being ripped off. I don't like that feeling. But I think that many of the tools that it's that are being made and that are going to be made with it are, like, miracles, and a lot of them are going to be for people, you know, with disabilities, or, like, just medical things, or, like, there's just so many things that's like, good about it, but so far, it's definitely impacted my livelihood in an extremely negative way, and that's been not fun.

9:22Elsie Yeah, okay, I would say I try to be moderate. I try to stay moderate and open minded about every subject. That's just like one of my values. I don't want to be an extremist, so I'm not necessarily boycotting AI like I use it to make charts and graphs and stuff, but I don't use it for any purposes that have to do with my art or writing or creative work, because first of all, I think that it isn't good at those things at all. And I think that it's like, I do think it's making people dumber and less creative. Like, it's it's making you sort of, like, when you use your iPhone too much, do the maps I'm like, and now you you just don't have that same skill set anymore, like, you don't want to lose like, so make sure that you're not using it for skills that you want to maintain, you know, and if it's if it's busy work that you can forego great like, I support that I that's fine. Efficiency is good, but yeah, I would not use it, and I would also be very careful, like I have in the past, bought an E course where the entire e course was written by AI, and I was extremely disappointed, and I don't follow that person anymore, and I wouldn't support them

9:34in the future. And I've also had a few people who I love, who have their whole emails written by AI, and it embarrasses me. For them, I was just experiencing secondhand embarrassment. I'm like, Oh, you don't know that that looks like, like that look it doesn't look good. It's not it's not adequate. It's inadequate. Just know that when you're using it and don't use it for important work or work that you want to be known for, yeah, and I don't know, I hope that it cures cancer. I hope that it does good things that make it more worth it for humanity, like I kind of enjoy the stories about people who are using it romantically or for therapy or all these, like, very, to me, very strange ways to use it. I'm at least, like, intrigued by it. I'm not gonna lie, like, I want to hear the stories, because it's so weird and like it's happening so quickly, it's interesting. Obviously, I would not condone or support doing those things. I think it's very dangerous, and I would not use it to co work with you at its current phase, right now, because I just think it agrees with you too much. Yeah, like, I don't think it's a good critical enough. I

9:45don't think it's a good critical partner. It's not an equal. It's it's not, you know what I mean? Emma Yeah, maybe it will be though, eventually. I mean, it seems like it's definitely getting better and better. Elsie It will, I mean, yeah, and yeah, I already think that. Think it's ruined a lot of spaces, but I don't know. And scary, it's scary, like the videos that are starting to pass by that we're not noticing our AI, that scares me. There's a lot to it. It's complex, so I think I will avoid oversimplifying it, and I probably won't really listen to anyone who wants to simplify it, because I think this is, like, a huge, complex subject. I think the ship has sailed, but out of the bottle. The Genie's out of the bottle. But, yeah. Hopefully we can learn to use it more responsibly, and I don't know, at least as artists, we can protect our spaces and protect our own industries that we're in. If you lose your job because of it, we're sorry, and we do have a lot of empathy for you. And also it kind of happened to us too.

9:57Emma Yeah, and I'd love to see, you know, companies and also the government, more politicians talking about, what are we going to do with the people that are displaced? Not really me, because we're fine. I just thinking about, I feel like, every now and again it pops up in the news, like, oh, they say, pretty soon it'll all the trucks on the road will be and I don't know if that's true, but if it did become true, there's a lot of people who are displaced from their job that they do to, like, provide for their families. So like, what are we doing for them? What's happening? Like, does anyone have a plan? Yeah, I'd like to hear our leaders talking about that, because I'm concerned about it. It matters for our economy and it matters for my neighbors. You know, it matters. So, like, I think that's the hardest thing about progress, is, like, along the way, there's always, like, a kind of difficult side effect, and it's like, well, let's make sure that we're caring about one another as we go through this big change in our world. You know? Yeah, anyway.

10:09Elsie Okay, well, I hope, no, we didn't ruin your day with that. I think there's just, like, such a big ick surrounding it and yeah, there is, I don't know. Okay, let's do guilty pleasure treasure before we go and bring the mood back up. Yeah, okay, my guilty pleasure this month is the TV show traders. So after the Olympics ended, I was mourning very deeply that I want Johnny Weir in my life. And my friend Sherry was like, you have to watch traders. You're gonna love it. Johnny Weir is on the season. So my husband is, like, more of a reality show person than me, because he likes, like, survivor and so, okay, yeah, so he insisted we have to start on Season One, because if we start on season three, then we'll see spoilers and it'll ruin everything. He's just very strict about these things. So we're starting on Season One, and oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts about this castle. So they're in a amazing Scottish castle, and the decor is, it is the most generic, big box store mansion that is possible in the world. I've never seen a castle with less antiques. So I'm curious to see if, as the season, because

10:21we're on Season One, as the seasons progress, will the decor develop? Because I feel like to have a cast like, what is a castle without antiques, there are no oil paintings at all. Emma I'm gonna make you a t shirt that says I have never seen a castle with less antiques. I just feel like that's the quote. Elsie I mean, I was enraged. And if you had to be watching the show with me, you would hate me, because every single set like fake books, fake art, fake molding, saw it at Target. That floor is from the Home Depot last year. Like, I mean, I am just not, like, I don't understand why they decorated this castle this way. So, yeah, hold my hand. I'm gonna be okay. It is. It's a fun show, though. And I like, I'm not a big reality show person, so it feels like a treat. It feels like an indulgence, and it's something for me and my husband to do. So I'm happy about it, but I do hope that the castle gets a little more authentic. It is, uh, it's hard for me. It like, makes me feel like, like my limbs are on fire and I'm watching it.

10:34Emma Okay. Okay, you go. It's real rage bait, right. There it is. Okay. My guilty pleasure treasure this week is Little Debbie cosmic brownies. But yeah, here's why it's a guilty pleasure, not because, like, Oh, you shouldn't eat brownies. Obviously you should eat brownies. This is guilty because I, this week, bought a package, and I hid the entire package from my family. I did not show it to my kids, I did not show it to my husband, and I'm just slowly eating it. And I only eat them when no one can see it, because I don't want anyone to know where the package is? Oh, my God, one of my kids wouldn't eat it anyway, and I feel like my husband probably doesn't care. He would probably just make fun of me, but I just like it to be my own little secret, so it's hidden away in my house, my Little Debbie brownies.

10:43Elsie That's what I need to start doing with my Jenny's ice cream, because my kids started thinking it was their favorite ice cream and that I'm buying it for them. And I'm like, here's the problem with that. Get your own. It has to be in the freezer. Emma So no more difficult. Mine are hidden. I'm not saying my hiding spot, but they are not where you would think. So this problem, though, maybe you need, like, a different container that's like, something they don't like, you can put it in the container.

10:51Elsie I think I've seen something like this before that, someone saved like an old, like an old broccoli bag. Emma Yes, okay, that's what you need. That's an old broccoli bag and it's in there, then you can open up the bag. Get genius, yeah, that's what you need. Hiding food from your kids is a real thing. So, yeah, yeah. Yeah, all right. Okay. Now it's time for a joke or a fact or a meditation with the best person on this podcast, Nova. Elsie Hey, Nova. What do you have for us this week?

11:00Nova A joke. Elsie Okay, I'm ready. Nova How do meteors stay clean? Elsie I don't know how? Nova They shower. Elsie That's a good one. Nova Have a good week. Elsie Thank you so much for listening. Send us your episode request for your absolute dream episodes, because we are trying our damnedest to get our summer schedule where we have recordings, but we do need more ideas. Emma Yes, you're a part of this. Elsie And I'm not against repeating an old idea either by the way, like 300 I think repeating is fine, and if you haven't noticed, we do it all the time.

11:23Emma I mean we've never done that before. Elsie Anyway, please send us your request, questions, comments, stories, book suggestions. Emma Yes, I am always buying your books. Thank you. Keep them coming. Elsie Podcast@abeautifulmess.com. Okay, we'll be back next week.