Adam Got Around a Bit Before Eve

0:00Good morning Well It's morning Surprise intro [laughs] Don't make it awkward Good morning, good evening. I- it's super awkward. You already made it weird. I did make it weird, but, uh, we thought we'd, we'd hop on for a little solo because we haven't caught up in a while. Yeah. And we have a great interview for you right after this with Ben Kowaler. But before we get to Ben, um, we haven't solo... I mean, you and I just spoke about all the things we can't talk about on the podcast. [laughs] Um, [laughs]

0:27not, there's not a tier, not a tier exists that people could pay for to hear- Yeah... that gold Oh, my God, no. Um- But we have a lot of stuff to discuss, so- We had a lot- Which, where, where should we begin? Okay. First of all, where are you and where am I? Okay. I am currently sitting in a hotel room in Anchorage, Alaska, which- [laughs] Are you op- you're opening a Chabad there? I, I do n- uh, there is already a Chabad here. Of course there is. Um, it is a very interesting place. We went on a trolley ride and got the whole history of Anchorage- Aw... and saw the whole city. Um, and we're gonna be in Alaska for a little over a week.

1:06Um, we took a flight directly from New York, which we'll get to in a second. Um, half of the flight was, uh, Orthodox Jews going from- Wow... New York to Alaska Gonna colonize Alaska... which, yeah- Finally... which I think people must have been really confused about what was going on, but there's a reason that all these Orthodox Jews are coming here today, 'cause obviously there's a kosher cruise leaving. Obviously. And so, obviously. [laughs] So there were a lot of Orthodox Jews on this flight, which was pretty interesting. Oh, my gosh. But it's... Do you know that Alaska is four hours behind New York? That makes sense.

1:37So- It's very far... I woke up at, I woke up at 6:00 AM this morning in New York. Okay. And now it is 9:12 in Alaska PM, which is like two... I don't know how to count, but nine plus four, so it's like 1. [laughs] It's 1:15 PM. It sounds late. It sounds really late. It's 1:15 AM my time. [laughs] I've been up for m- I've been up for, like, three days straight. [laughs] But I just wanna say one last thing. It, uh, in Alaska, the sun is gonna set at 11:45 tonight. [gasps] So I'm looking out the window right now. It's 9:15 PM. It looks like it's 1:00 in the afternoon. It's bizarre. That is such a mind- Yeah... mind F.

2:14It's- I don't wanna swear this early... it's, it's bizarre. It's bizarre. Wow. Yeah. I can't... That's... Yeah. But- But I'm very jealous. I've always wanted to go to Alaska... yeah, and I just wanna say for people, like, especially women, um, my age who are s- who are struggling with feeling overheated all the time and having hot flashes and hot, go on vacation to Alaska. It is glorious. Mm. I had to wear a sweatshirt today. It is unbelievable. Like, I, I'm only vacationing in the Northern Hemisphere, like, the north part of the Northern Hemisphere from now on in the summer. So that's my new thing.

2:52Um, I've always wanted to go to Alaska, and, uh, I'm very jealous. I cannot wait to hear about this segregated cruise you're going on. [laughs] Which when you told me you were going on a kosher cruise, I thought you were going on a boat- Yeah... on a, on a Jewish boat, on a Jew boat in Alaska. [laughs] But then the reality is actually stranger, I think- It's, it's so good... where you're going on a regular cruise, but they put the Jews in a separate area. [laughs] Is that it? It i- that is it.

3:18You, that is correct. Okay. But it's, like, five-star, so I'm not... I mean, everyone else is gonna be jealous I think of, like, our- Okay. Well, I-... food, which might create- You need to write down all the stories... yeah. It might create more antisemitism, but whatever. It's fi- it's worth it. Yeah. It's worth it. I think the ADL was like, "What will create more antisemitism?" [laughs] "If we put all the Jews with everyone else, or if we put them separately?" And they're like- The same... "Separately is probably better for the, the people as a whole."

3:43I promise you, our grandmothers in the DP camps could not have- Mm-hmm... dreamed about what I'm about to experience for the next seven days. Yeah. They couldn't even imagine. You're gonna give it a lot. So I'm just saying this is a victory. To me- It is a victory... a kosher cruise in Alaska is a victory in a time when being Jewish feels so heavy- Mm-hmm... that I'm only doing this for, 'cause I wanna tell the story of Jewish resilience. To your grand- your grandchildren. I'm not doing it... Yes. I'm not doing it for the food.

4:12Your grandchildren, when they, when they go to the DP camps- [laughs]... they'll be able to remember their grandmother's luxury cruise. [laughs] They should just know that everything in history is cyclical, and so sometimes- [laughs]... you're- You got, you got on a good one. You got on a good, uh, good cycle. I got on at the right time. [laughs] And we are going on a fully glatt kosher cruise. What can I tell you? It's amazing. This is a glorious time to be alive. You better take a million photos. Oh, I will. I will.

4:39Um- Well, I'm in Israel- And so where are you? Yeah, tell us about where you are... I'm also in a segregated, uh... No. [laughs] I'm in Israel. It's wonderful here. It's so hot. I can't-- I don't understand- Yeah... how people function here, as somebody- Yeah... who grew up here my whole life. Um, you know, you walk from place to place, like, 10 minutes, and I'm like... I, I, [laughs] I walked with my mom just to run some errands yesterday, and I finished, like, a whole bottle of water as if I was going on a hike. Yeah, yeah. Um, it's very hot, but it's very lovely.

5:05But we both had- How's the-... like- How's the mood? How's the mood in Israel? It's... [sighs] My mood, not good. No. Um... [laughs] Well, that's, uh... We'll talk about that in a second. How is the national mood? It's, um... The national mood is depressed and sad and angry. Ugh. But also everybody's, like, going out and partying and exercising and having a good time. Okay. We're just doing it- Okay... while depressed, which, you know, makes sense. Okay. Um- Okay. That's good... yeah, it's, it's a little, it's a little heavy here, but, but we both had, like, really big weeks. You- Yeah... had an engagement.

5:39I had an accident [laughs] Oh, my God. We'll talk about- Oh, my God. Oops. Let's start with the simcha. Let's start with the good stuff. Okay. Okay. Yes, we had a very big week in my family. Um, if you follow me on social media or you know me in real life, you know that my oldest son got engaged last week, um, which in our community, for those who don't know, yes, we are- It was a matchmaker, he was set up, they dated for, you know, a short amount of time.

6:07Uh, and last week he, you know, proposed, and they got engaged, and we all went to New York and had a huge party for him. And, uh, now I'm a mother-in-law, and we're planning a wedding. So that, that all happened in the last five days. Y- you sound like you're reading the, the traffic report. Um [laughs] W- I've- Can you, can you- I've had- Can you give us a little more, uh- What, what should I say? I mean, it's so... I, I can't begin to describe sort of like w- I mean, I went through this myself obviously when I was 20 years old. I was set up by a matchmaker.

6:42And actually, the reason we're in Alaska is 'cause it's our 25th wedding anniversary. Aw. So I, I went through this, uh, same exact process that my son and my now future daughter-in-law went through. But it is so different to do it for your own child. Um, and just watching, watching them find each other, and we spent, like, I met her just the day before they got engaged, and then the day they got engaged we hung out, and then we spent the weekend with her.

7:07Um, and just seeing how... It's like they've known each other forever. I can't believe they didn't know each other two months ago. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's so comfortable and normal and natural, and it's just making me think a lot about w- where we are. You know, because I straddle both worlds of, like, the religious world and the secular world, um, it just... I, I think to myself, like, the only way this was, this was able to happen- Mm-hmm... is because both of them have tremendous support. I mean, her parents and us, you know, we walked them through this together. Mm-hmm.

7:42Like, we, we helped them get through every step of this. We supported them all along, with a matchmaker, with other people involved. And we just, like, if I had to put him out into the wild and say, like, "Go find someone to marry," he never would, right? Mm-hmm. And so, and that's kind of what we're doing today to young- Mm-hmm... people outside of religious communities. It's like, "Here, go into the wild and find someone." I mean, it's just really difficult. And, like, we were with sh- my son every single step of the way. Mm-hmm.

8:10So there was no miscommunication. There... Everybody understood all the expectations after every date, where everybody was holding. And I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure how to replicate that in, like, a non-religious community, but I do think, like, there's something missing that s- just from the family and community support- Mm-hmm... that would help young people be able to meet pe- meet their matches. It's, it's very necessary. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just...

8:38And, uh, you know, look, he's our oldest, so it's a hu- it was a huge, huge, uh, simcha for us, and for my parents. He's the oldest grandchild, so everybody's becoming, like, the next level up, you know? Mm-hmm. My gra- my parents are becoming now the grandparents of the- Mm... groom, and we're the... So it's exciting for everyone, and she's just lovely, and I feel bad for her that she's stuck with me as a mother-in-law, but other than that- [laughs] You know? It's too late now. Too... I know. [laughs] I know.

9:04Actually, her parents listened to a few episodes of the podcast, which my son said was his worst nightmare when he heard that. [laughs] But- Oh, was... That was after they said yes, I assume. No, it was actually before. Oh, wow. I know. And they still... Well, now I'm starting to question them. Oh, actually no. Well, actually, no, uh, you're right. It was after. [laughs] It was after they agreed for them to go out. Yeah, you're right. You're right. [laughs] So yeah. So now I'm in full, uh, wedding planning, and if you know anything about the Orthodox world, we do not dilly-dally, as they say. No.

9:35We do this pretty quick, and so it's just gonna be a few months. By the time this episode is out- [laughs]... you'll be a grandmother, guys, at the show. [laughs] No, no, no. He's gonna... It'll be a few months, and we'll have a beautiful wedding, please God. And yep, and then he'll, uh- Well, it was a- Yeah... super, super fun engagement. I'm- Thank you... super happy I got to be there before, um- I'm so happy you were there... I left for Israel. It was really, really fun. Yeah. And they're very cute, and she's already feels like family. Yeah. Yeah.

10:00Um, whether she likes it or not. [laughs] I know. I know. It is funny. I know. They just get thrown in the deep end, honestly. Yeah. It's just- Yeah... that's the way it is. And then we threw this, like, huge party, and everybody's just like, "Yay." There was a waffle bar. There- [laughs] I mean, what, what else, what else could a girl want, really- I know. I know... than a husband? There was a waffle bar at the engagement party. That was, that was 'cause of me, and, you know, I, I felt like it would be special. So- Yeah. [laughs]... I wanted the waffles. Um, but yeah. So it's very exciting.

10:27Very, a big- No, it was very fun... I have to say it was a, a... this was a real, um, game-changing week in my life. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I, like, of all the weeks in my life of 46 years, this was one of them. Feel grown up now. Yeah. Yeah, I d- Yeah... I feel, I feel like an adult. But, um, yeah, it's great. So thank you to everyone who reached out. I l- I got a lot of messages from people congratulating us, and it means a lot, and I know it feels like... I mean, it feels like family, everybody in the Ask Jew world, and- Yeah... feeling excited, and it's, it is.

10:59You know, my kids are a part of this, and, uh, it's nice. So- Sorry, ladies. He's off the market. Yeah. But there are three more. Yeah, [laughs] exactly. Um- Um, so okay, now tell us about your accident. Oh, tell them about [laughs] what? This is, this is, this is- I want to ste- Yael-... steal all the focus... Yael. I know. Let's talk about Yael and her attempt at greatness, which I was so... You know, I feel guilty a little bit, 'cause I was jealous of what you were doing. Oh, really? I'm like, "I can't do that." Well, I'm like, "I can't do that." I can't, I can't do that either, apparently. Yes, you can.

11:29Um- No, because you, that was not your fault. You were on the path to doing that, and I could never- Wait. But before we ta- before we do that, should we do a little, a little, a little in- not intro, a little interlude and, um, just talk, before people turn this off 'cause they don't wanna hear about m- me bleeding- [laughs]... um, we owe, we owe you guys a winner to our survey. Oh. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, so first of all, thank you for everybody who filled out the survey. Um- Yeah... we had hundreds of responses.

11:58It was actually really, really cool. We should do this, like, every week, because I love- [laughs]... hearing how great we are from strangers. [laughs] Um, and that's really all I need in my life in terms of, you know- Uh, um, strength. Um, so it was very cool. First of all, we learned a lot about our audience. Um, what, what, what did you learn that most surprised you? I'm pulling it up right now. Um, I think like a third of our audience is not Jewish, which I appreciate- Yeah...

12:25'cause it makes me feel like, you know, we're not just talking to- But we, you guys know we love you more than the Jews, right? Yeah. I mean, it just, it makes me feel like we're not just talking into a microphone that only people who like are like us appreciate. Yeah. I, I really, it means a lot to me. And also, like, I was pretty surprised at how many men listen. Hmm. I, I thought it would be like 90/10, but it's not at all, and so thanks to all the guys. [laughs] 'Cause sometimes I know- 90/10 women to men. Yeah...

12:53yeah, but it's not. It was much more s- it was m- pretty, uh, I think it was like 60/40. Um- Yeah... maybe a little less, maybe a little more, like 65, whatever. But- Yeah... um, I appreciate that because I know sometimes we maybe talk about, uh, things that are irrelevant to many men, but I appreciate that- Yeah... you stick with it, so what about you? Yeah. We, um, we have, we found out we have listeners, um, all over the world. I mean, mostly kind of US, Israel, Canada, but we have like a listener in Japan, a listener in Pakistan- Yeah... and some, some- Right...

13:25you know, people in Europe and Spain and all these countries that I think are- I mean-... antisemitic, but I guess you guys are not... Vladimir Putin listen, Vladimir Putin listens, which I thought was weird. He, yeah, we can't send him the challah though, because the shipping- [laughs]... is, is too expensive. It's too much. Um, but we learned that, um, h- h- you're kind of split even between whether you prefer our solo episodes or whether you prefer our guest episodes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we'll try to give you a little mix of both.

13:52Um, political views was, was really interesting because I think the vast majority of our list- I mean, it's really split, but over like almost 24% of you say you're politically homeless, which I think we can relate to, um, which was, um- We should, I wanna talk about that after we read some personal stuff... pretty cool. And anyway- Yeah... you all love us, blah, blah, blah. Thank you so much. Um, Claire Mazeltov. Uh, Claire s- with a, we don't wanna say your last name. Also, we don't know your last name. We have your email.

14:22Uh, C-L-A-R-E, if that's how you spell your name, Claire, um, you want a challah that Chayla will make for you, um, and- She will email you, right... gonna ship it. I'm gonna email you, and we'll get your address, and I will send you probably more than one challah. I'm not gonna send one. That's lame. Is it? You have to send at least two. Yeah. Okay. You'll get two challahs. At least. Share with your friends and neighbors. Exactly. So thank you very, very much, Claire. Yeah. Thank you, guys.

14:49Um, yeah, I mean, there's just so much going on in the world, and like, we were both, like, consumed with other stuff, you with- Yeah... your training and me with all the stuff going on with the kids. And like, I feel, I mean, I wanna talk about your triathlon. Um, should we do that first, and then we'll- Yeah, yeah... get into the politics. Let's do it. Okay. Tell everyone what happened. Tell everyone. Let's get out, that out of the way. So I don't really talk about it a lot, which is, which is strange because as a, as a triathlete, you're supposed to talk about it all the time. Yeah.

15:16Um, and there's a whole world I exist in, in which all I talk about is triathlons with my other friends, and like, we don't talk about Israel or Jews or- Hmm... antisemitism, but like what gels we eat and like what, you know, bike shoes we're getting and all that stuff. So I did, um, a half Ironman last weekend in Maryland. It was my second half Ironman and I think my 10th or 11th triathlon. Um, I was training for it for, for many months, um, and, uh, I had a great swim even though there were jellyfish.

15:50It's funny 'cause I tell people in my family that, people in Israel, and they're like, "We didn't know there were jellyfish outside of Israel." [laughs] Um- It's funny... but yeah, there were jellyfish on the swim. I got stung in the face. That was no fun, but so did every- Oh, God... single person on the swim. Wow. Uh, everyone got stung. How, how far do you swim? People got stung in the face. How far is the swim? Uh, it's a mile-and-a-half swim. Wow, okay. I think, or 1.2 miles. I don't know. Wow. It was a long swim. Um, and, uh, but that part was, minus the jellyfish, was kinda cool. I als- I like the swim.

16:19And then got on the bike. It's a s- it's a 56-mile bike ride, and on mile 20 of the bike, somebody crashed into me. Um, and we both went down. And, um, I... Spoiler alert, I'm alive. I'm fine. [laughs] Um, I didn't break anything, uh, which is good, but it was, it was pretty jarring. And, um, my bike was kind of, the front part of my bike was crushed. Um, so I had to wait for 45 minutes for a bike mechanic to come off the course, and it's all very, very organized.

16:50Um, so thankfully, you know, like the first aid came, and then somebody came and like let me s- It was really, really hot, super hot, um, no shade. Um- Wow... so thankfully somebody from Ironman came with, in like the truck, and I could sit in the truck and like weep and bleed in the truck. Oh. Um, and, um, a bike mechanic eventually came, gave me a whole bra- brand-new front wheel, which I don't know if people are know anything about bikes, but that's like, you know, big, like you ha- had to get a whole new wheel.

17:19But he put that on pretty quickly, and then I continued my ride. Um, but I could not, uh, I did not make it in time for the run- Oh... um, because I had lost so much time on the course. Also, I got lost [laughs] because by the time I was cycling, um, you know, most people in the race had already gone by. Oh. Um, I also got lost on the course for a few minutes, so at some point I hear like a police siren behind me, and a nice, uh, state trooper was like, "Are you from the triathlon?" I was like, "Yeah."

17:50He's like, "You missed a turn." Oh. So [laughs] anyway- What, what was- It was... What? What was the hard... Like, I wanna just get it, 'cause I'm obviously the opposite of an athlete. But like I'm curious, I'm just curious, like what was the hard part for you? Was it not finishing? Was it getting- Mm-hmm... hurt? Was it like- The anger about all the months that you tried- Yeah... and you weren't gonna get that finish. Like, what... I, I'm just curious, like, what was the- It was, it was a disappointment... thing that was really hard? It was. Okay. It was a pure, like, disappointment. Um- Right...

18:23I even think about it now, I wanna cry. Like, it was just a dis- I wasn't angry, shockingly- Yeah... even though- Yeah... 'cause, like, anger is, like, my default. Um, the woman who crashed into me was super apologetic. She was, you know, she offered to stay with me. She even offered to give me her bike so I could finish the race, and I was like, "No," and then the bike, the race official was like, "You can't do that." I'm like, "Okay, nobody was gonna do that." Oh, my gosh. Um, 'cause they're very strict. Um, it was completely one of those it could have happened to anyone, you know. Um, I was just...

18:56And then as soon as I realized, as, as soon as he fixed my bike, I was like, "I'm gonna finish this. It's gonna be great. I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna walk the whole run." Then you have a- Yeah... 13.1 mile after, and I'm like, "I don't care if I have to walk the whole run, I'm gonna finish this. I'm gonna be injured and finish it. It's gonna be great. Um, I'm gonna have a great story to tell." And then, um, and I'm, I'm riding and my knee hurts, and my face stings because of the jellyfish, and it's, like- Ugh... very windy. [laughs] So my face is, like, hurting. Oi.

19:27And there's nobody on the course, and it's hot, and I'm tired and sad. But I'm like, in my head I'm like, "No, no, no. I'm- Right... I'm getting there. I'm finishing this. It's gonna be great." And then I reached, uh, the end of the bike course, and I was told that I missed the bike cutoff by five minutes. Um- No way... and then I was like, "Well, can I still run even with, and not qualify?" Like DN- You know, they say, like it's called, like, DNF, like did not finish, and they're like, "No, you have to get off. You can't do it." Wow. So then I started, yeah.

19:54So then I was really, really disappointed, and then I took myself to the first aid tent. And then when that adrenaline, 'cause I was still riding for another, like, two and a half hours after. Wow. Like, when that adrenaline finished and I took myself to the first aid tent, I was like, "Oh, I was in no shape to ride." [laughs] I was not gonna run- Right, right... anyway. Um- Right... so I got to the first a- aid tent. They, they wrapped me up like a, like a Civil War soldier, [laughs] you know. Oh, my God.

20:23Um, and thankfully, uh, and I was very, very, very sad and disappointed, and I, I've been with this team for a long time, so my coaches are some of my good friends. And I was- Right... you know, I was crying and I... They were like, "Oh, you know, you, you did it. You, you- Yeah... finished the..." And I'm like, "I didn't wanna do it. I, I wanna do like everyone else," you know? Right, right. Like, I didn't want [laughs] I wanted... They're like, I don't want the story, I wanted the finisher photo. I wanted- You know, if you, if you just never try, you don't ever have to be disappointed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um- Like, I never had that.

20:55I never cried that I didn't- Yeah... finish a race. I just- Yeah... ne- it never happened to me. So- I also lost zero pounds training for this half Ironman. But you're- So exactly the same- No, but you look-... weight... no, but you look amazing. No, it's the same weight- Yeah... that I lost when I did my first half Ironman, also zero pounds. So if anyone's looking to get into triathlons, don't. It's expensive, and you don't lose weight, and you waste- [laughs]... all your weekends riding your bike- No, you look-... like an idiot. Um- You look amazing, and everyone should, uh, I was joking. Everyone should try.

21:25It's great. Um- No, it's, it's fun... in fact, I'm doing, I'm doing the hundred mile whatever sw- Ironman next. That's gonna be my- Yeah, the, the full Ironman, 140 miles? Yeah, I'm gonna do- Yeah... I'm gonna do full Ironman. I think you can do it. I, the, the only reason you sh- I wouldn't- Maybe... recommend doing it is that course that I did, they have a full Ironman, and the jellyfish in September are even worse. So maybe consider- Oh... reconsider that.

21:48Maybe they have one for little people- Um, anyway, whatever... that I could participate in. I got the, I got the hat. I got the hat. I got the little shirt. I got, you know, now everybody knows that I did a half Ironman- Good... which is all that matters, I think. Good. Um- 100%. But maybe I'll try again. I don't know. There's one in Seattle in September. The oth- the other problem with these things is, like, you can't, like, I can't be like, "Okay, I'll do it again next year."

22:09I was like, "If I'm gonna do it again, it has to be now," because, like, you can't, like, I'm not gonna go back to that level of training- Right, right... ever again because- Right... it's a waste of time. Oi. I'm sorry that happened- Oi... to you. Honestly, I'm sad it happened to you. I was very proud of you. I watched you- Thank you... train. No, I was really, I watched you train the last few months. It's really impressive. You- Aren't you proud of me for not talking- I am... about this all the time? Yeah, I am proud of you. 'Cause I really didn't. It's true. Yeah. You didn't.

22:37And I was really, really impressed with how well you handled it after. Like- Aw, thank you... you could have really, like, fallen apart, and I feel like you didn't. You got up, and you just, I know you were sad, and I know you cried, but, like, I think you handled it with grace, and I, and that's, that's a lot, you know? Thank you. So kol hakavod for that. Well, if anybody wants to see photos of me, 'cause you know what I ha- I hate when people post injuries on social media, 'cause, like, I didn't a- I didn't consent to this. Yeah.

23:06I didn't consent to going through my Instagram story and seeing you bleed. Yeah. I agree. So I didn't post any of them. But if anybody wants those photos, I will send them to you, uh, because they're pretty... I mean, in retrospect, they're kinda funny. Yeah. Um- It's not funny, but yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah. Um- But, um, I still has, I have, like, some So you're- But yeah So you're gonna be in Israel for a while. You're- I'm gonna be in Israel- I'm glad you're there... for a while. Yeah. You're, like, the Israel- It's my fa- it's my dad's birthday today, by the way. Oh, happy birthday. Happy birthday to my dad- Aw... Ronnie.

23:36Some of you know him. I love him. He's the best. That's so cool. Um- Um, can we talk about what's going on in the world for a second? Because- No, no, no. [laughs] I don't wanna talk about it. I don't wanna talk about it. A, I don't know what's going on in the world. B, I'm angry again. C, I wasn't angry at, like, the, the lady that crashed into me, but I'm angry at the world. Um, I don't know what's happening. I- I'm very sad. I'm very worried about Lebanon. Um, Hezbollah- Yeah... like, Iran is using Hezbollah to create a new October 7th.

24:09They're building tunnels over there, and if they think that we're just gonna be cool with them building tunnels- Yeah... under the ground near Israeli towns- Then everybody can- Yeah... fuck right off. I'll put JD Vance in one of those tunnels. How about that? No, I can't- He should go... not until I get my citizenship. [laughs] Everybody's great in the administration. Yeah. Great. I ca- I'm d- I do not like JD Vance, but, um- Uh, do you think, do you think Trump is kinda setting him up to take the fall for this? Yeah. Yeah. You do? I think so. I think so. Yeah. But, uh, who knows?

24:42Honestly, I'll say one thing. I mean, I'm... W- as you know, i- if you're a regular listener, we are not experts, but we believe- [laughs] Speak for yourself... that we are experts. [laughs] We believe we are experts, so in my expert opinion- We just have the battle. Yeah... exactly. In my expert opinion, I just... I don't believe anyone knows what the hell's going on, honestly. I really think it is such a mess that, like, it's hard to understand from any side what's happening, and this is gonna be... This might make some people cringe and roll their eyes, but I don't care.

25:15It is so helpful to be religious or at certain times, and this is one of those times, honestly. Because I truly, like, I truly believe because I know Jewish history, because I know the story of our people, because I know how the w- like I understand how the world works, like, I truly believe we're gonna be okay. Like, what's happening right now is a chapter in a long story. It's not the end story. It's not the end of the book. It's not even the, like, middle, you know, whatever. This is just a chapter.

25:49Trump is a character in a story. He's a world leader that will be gone before we know it. I mean, Jewish history is long, okay? It's long, and there have been people who came w- and went, and bad people and good people, and friends and enemies, and friends who became enemies and enemies who became friends. All of this has happened to us before. And so when I, like, when I think about what's going on right now, it just... I remember that there's no one who has the answer. Like, it's going to happen.

26:21Whatever's gonna f- however the fallout's gonna be, I personally believe that Hashem runs the world and that we are just little players in it. And am I angry? Yes. Am I angry because after three years I want this to be done with and I want, you know, I want Israel to be safe, and I want Israelis to be able to go back to regular life? Yes. Am I angry as an American, by the way, that even we are dealing with this nonsense? Yes, I'm angry about that. I'm angry at both sides. I'm angry at the Democrats. I'm angry at the Republicans. I'm angry at everyone.

26:52I'm angry at Trump, and I'm angry at Biden. I'm angry at... I mean, the anger has no bounds, but- Mm-hmm... I also remember that they are all just little, tiny players. They're not the main story. They're not the main char- even Bibi Netanyahu, who if you hate Bibi with all your passion and your whole life, y- he's your worst enemy, he's also just a player for a small amount of time. He's gonna be gone, too. And you know who's not gonna be gone? The Jewish people. The Jewish- Right... people are not gonna be gone, and neither is America.

27:23By the way, neither is the United States of America, and we should start acting like the world's superpower. I, I, I can't understand- And-... uh, whatever. That's a whole separate issue- There's a lot there... why we, why we act like lit- like we have no power when we have all the power, but that's, that's a side issue. There's a lot there. I- my faith is not in Hashem. My faith is in the Iranian government and their ability to screw this up. [laughs] Um- That's Hashem. [laughs]... so that's where I'm getting my energy from [laughs] because- It's true...

27:54I think much like their Palestinian, uh, friends, they will never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and they're pretty much getting handed everything they want on a platter, and they're probably gonna screw it up, um- Yeah... because they don't want... You know, like, I was thinking about sometimes you don't need to be an expert. Sometimes it's easy to just, like, zoom out on, like, this whole Lebanon thing, right? Like, uh, this, the situation in Lebanon is tragic. Like, the... For Lebanese people, if you're Lebanese, you know, I have zero beef with you and all the sympathy for what you're going through. But the situation in southern Lebanon with Hezbollah could end tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Just root out the terrorist organization- That's right... from all the towns.

28:38And I'm not saying the Lebanese should do that, but Iran should do that 'cause that's who's footing the bill, right? Yeah. So the fact that we're even negotiating about an end to the hostilities where the hostilities only exist because one side is committing to wiping the other side off the map, you know, talk about root causes. Well- I- it's just ridiculous, and if we let them fester there, and, and we'll put out, like we've learned after 2006, we put out some, some shitty peacekeeping force while they continue to flood cash into these organizations, then, then we've gone back to October 6th, and it's- Yeah. You know- So-... living in northern Israel is, is a nightmare. Yeah.

29:20Someone pointed out that it's interesting about Lebanon how the media, and even our political leaders, will always say that Hezbollah is attacking Israel- Mm-hmm... but that Israel is attacking Lebanon. Yeah. Right? Interesting. They never... They, they use Hezbollah for the attacks, but Israel's attacking Lebanon- Yeah. Yeah... which it's just... If once you start to notice these little nuances, you understand what we're dealing with, right? Mm-hmm. I, I had...

29:46Today I had it with someone we're very close with who I absolutely love, love, love, and maybe see things differently. You know, we have different perspectives- Mm-hmm... on a lot of things, including, you know, some things about Israel and things about American jewelry. And, you know, she had posted a bunch of stuff about APAC today, and I was like... I, I felt like I had to say it because I, I truly believe it Why are Jews buying the propaganda that our, our, our enemies put out? Like, AIPAC is an American lobby group- Mm-hmm...

30:19funded by American dollars to do, you know, the work on behalf of people- A relatively small one- Yeah... compared to lobbying groups. No, no, to do- right, to do the work on behalf of, you know, uh, Americans who care about the American relationship with Israel. And so because our enemies are t- are saying things to disparage AIPAC and to call it nefarious and to call it dark money, so now Jews are taking those talking points and repeating it? Like, why? Mm-hmm.

30:46Why are you, why are you, why are we doing that? AIPAC is not an enemy. AIPAC is a very important- AIPAC is not an enemy... it's a very important Jewish institution. It's a very important American institution, actually. And you, by the way, you don't have- I mean, uh-... to like AIPAC- Exactly... to recognize that it's being used- Of course... as a tool to sever American- Exactly... Israeli ties. Exactly. Exactly. And I r- I, I beg people to look inward and not- That's right... fall for that and listen.

31:18I, I don't know why, like, A- American Jews or, and not just American Jews, like Jews in general I think sometimes have a tendency of, maybe it's even a generational thing, have a tendency to w- take the weight of the words of their opponents more than the weight- Yeah... of the words of the people around them sometimes. Right. It's like, you know, yes, we should listen to other people, and we should listen to criticisms, but we don't need to internalize everything.

31:45And at some point we can say, like, "Actually, you're wrong about this." And, and it's hard because we wanna kinda give a little, and we wanna feel like we're, we're... But, but make no mistake, the people who are trying to tell you that AIPAC is the enemy, they're not looking for a middle ground with you. No, they're not. They're not. They're not. So the people- No, and I'm angry at it... who are eating it up, like, like- Yeah... like Brad Lander and all these idiots, it's just- Yeah... it's, I'm embarrassed as a, as a Jew for him. Yeah. Just to have- Yeah...

32:13like, and I don't know if he has kids or whatnot, but, like, I'm embarrassed for his kids that, like, they, like the lack of self-respect that you have. I just, I keep thinking about this idea of excommunication. You know, the Jewish community used to have- [laughs]... Cherem. No, we used to have a concept of Cherem, excommunicating. Yeah, I don't know if that will help us at this point. No, I, but I'm just saying, like- 'Cause we'll be, we'll be stuck with, like- In, no, but in the Orthodox world- We'll just be stuck with Lizzie Savetsky. I don't care.

32:38In the Orthodox world, there is this concept still when somebody, like, i- you know, does something wrong or hurts the community or, you know, isn't giving his wife a get or whatever, you could put them in Cherem, like they're excommunicated, meaning you don't welcome them into your synagogue. You don't give them an Aliyah to the Torah. Like, there's a bunch of things that you wouldn't do. You, they can't be a witness, whatever, like all these different things. Like, I'm ready to put people in it.

33:00Like- Yeah... Brad Lander could have been Cherem, like go. Okay? Yeah. Go live with Madonna. He'd probably make a, he, he'd probably love that because it would make him even more powerful. Fine. He could love it, but it doesn't ma-... No, it wouldn't. That's the thing. We have to, we have to, like, cut their knees off, you know? I mean, I don't mean it literally, but- [laughs]... we have to, like, cut... What's the expression? I'm saying the wrong expression. No, cut their knees off. But [laughs] yeah, let's, let's delete that part, but like- No [laughs]... we cut them off at the knees, you know? Yeah.

33:27We have to stop them. We have to stop them. You know, I, I was t- I was saying it to somebody today- We can't stop them because it, because half the Jewish community is, is- No, but here's the thing. In the, I, I, one thing I admire, I mean, about many of the minority communities is that they were successful in making it totally unacceptable to be anti their group, right? Or to say anything that could be perceived as racist or sexist or whatever. You cannot do it in polite society. Why can't we do that? Why is that so hard for the Jews? 'Cause we're Jews, and we have a- We have a why...

33:59an, an, but I don't know. Ask, ask Hashem why we have this self-destructive gene. I wa- I, I got home here, and I looked at Haaretz. Um, my parents have a, um, subscription. I don't, I don't know why. My mom loves it. My dad is, does not. Um, and on the cover story of the weekend edition of Haaretz, who is the interview with? Who? Roger Waters. Oh, that's cute. And I'm like- That's cute... I'm like, how- An enemy, an enemy of Israel... it's, like, it's pathetic. It's pathetic. Yeah. And, and it's one thing if you have an interview there to, like, you know, be like, "What is wrong with you?"

34:36Or, but, like, why... I, I mean, of all the people you can interview- Yeah... why? I don't even wanna s- even say give a voice, because you're not giving a voice. He doesn't need you to give him a voice. He has, he has a voice. You're giving legitimacy. Yeah, exactly. You're listening. If somebody, Jews, if somebody will come up to you and be like, "Oh, actually, you like to rape dogs," or whatever we do, rape with the dogs, "and you're bloodthirsty, and your children all wanna eat Palestinian babies," half the Jews I know would be like, "Oh, my God.

35:10I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Like, tell, where can I learn more about this?" Mm-hmm. Just enough. Mm-hmm. Like, put, you know- Yeah... like, put your foot down. You can, we can be introspective, and we have to protect our own morality, but not bec- we don't have to listen. No, it's embarrassing. And we don't have to, like, entertain every single piece of crap that's thrown our way like Roger Waters. No, it's embarrassing. It's really, truly I feel embarrassed about it.

35:34But you know what the real life consequence of this is? That my son today landed at LAX and called an Uber, and a Middle Eastern, I don't wanna say what, what brand of Middle Eastern, pulled up in the Uber, and when he saw my son- Mm-hmm... he drove off and canceled the ride because he saw my son with his yarmulke and tzitzit and whatever. I've, by the way, this has happened to my kids before, so I've said it before. I'm not repeating an old story. It's disgusting. Literally happened to my 19-year-old son today, right? Mm-hmm. And so why does this happen?

36:08Because we allow this kind of discourse- Yes... to be normalized. That's why. Oh- We let it be normalized I, I, I think, no, I mean, it's, it's sim- it's similar what I was gonna say. Not the discourse, but we are so open-minded and welcoming that- Yeah... we w- we are afraid to call out bigotry and racism- Right... because what your son experienced- Right... was bigotry and racism, when it's not coming from people with MAGA hats. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And we don't wanna call that out, and we don't wanna make a big deal out of it, and we don't want to, you know, sit people down.

36:45I mean, this was an Uber driver, whatever, but let's say that happened in a school. Yeah, yeah. You know, you don't wanna sit people down and be like, "Actually, in this country, I don't know what you heard about Jews, but here we all respect each other. You don't have to like each other." I mean, it, it's- Uh, we, we don't wanna do that. Um, it's too, you know- Oh, not only... Right, not only do I wanna do that- Instead we're like, "Tell us more about why your culture wants you to hate Jews- Right... because I'm really interested."

37:08No, and then we turn it around also, and I'll get accused of Islamophobia for telling this story, right? And somebody will say to me, "Well, how do you know that's why he drove off? Maybe his wife went- Mm-hmm... into labor and she's delivering triplets on the 405 freeway," okay? Maybe, but that wouldn't happen- And then it make me... No, like, well, yeah... like several times. Exactly. I'm not an idiot. I know what's going on here, but they gaslight us. I mean, I, to use the term- By the way, I don't care if it's one guy... it's gaslighting. Right.

37:30I don't care if it's one person in the entire religion, I don't care if it's, it's a Buddhist. Yeah. I don't care if it's a, a- Exactly... a white Christian, whatever. We, we as a society come around, and it kinda goes back to what I was talk- we were talking with Batya about, is like the people who celebrated on October 8th, yes, they have a right to do that, but I am disappointed in my community and my neighbors and friends and people- Yeah... around me- Yeah... who are not like, "Hey, this is- Yeah... really, really not cool." And anyway, it's gonna come to bite everybody in the ass- Yeah... not just the Jews, so good luck with that. Happy birthday- Yeah...

38:04to my dad. Happy birthday, Ronnie. Um, and yeah, we'll, uh, we'll be back, uh, in a... We're actually gonna be in a couple weeks 'cause we're taking a little break I think, right? Do we have any episodes lined up? [laughs] Did I let you know? Did I let you just, did I let you know that live? I think you just let me know that. Live. [laughs] Good thing we're on, good thing we're on a roll. [laughs] No, I'm just kidding. Maybe just one week we're gonna be off. But, uh- We have, do we have... I'm looking at my calendar. I'm like, when's our next interview? Um- I thought we have some interviews lined up.

38:32But anyway, thank you everyone, and I hope you enjoy the episode. We had a really nice conversation with Ben- [laughs]... a- that's coming up after this. Oh, the next one. I thought this one, yeah. No. This one was not nice. No, I'm kidding. This one was very nice. [laughs] The, but the one with Ben was really, really funny, so stick around for that. Yeah. Um, we're on YouTube- And I know-... by the way. You can watch all this on YouTube. I, this video is my worst video ever, but okay. Uh, yeah, don't watch this one. Don't... Yeah, oh my God. But go watch Dan Senor, Gad Saad. We had some really fun interviews on YouTube.

38:59Yeah. And I know a lot of people have questions about my whole son's engagement situation, so if you wanna private message me, feel free. I will answer as best as I can. I'm not gonna, like, tell all his private business on this- [laughs] I will... podcast, but I'm happy to share at least my, my feelings, my thoughts. So if you wanna reach out, um, happy to- AskAJewpod... I'm happy to talk. Yeah. AskAJewpod@gmail.com. Yeah. We have some emails that really- Or on our Substack. Oh, or on Substack, yeah. Yeah.

39:27We have some really nice emails that I was starting to respond to, and of course I s- I forgot, but hopefully better late than never. And, uh, Claire, a challah is coming your way, so look out for an email from Chayla. Awesome. And if she doesn't send it, then I can't help you. [laughs] Bye everyone. Bye. [upbeat music] Hi, welcome back to Ask A Jew, where a secular sinful Israeli speaks to holy religious friend. Yael here with Chayla, now on YouTube. If you are familiar with the social media network YouTube- [laughs]... just go to H- HTTPS//www.youtube.com and find us there. With our special guest, Ben Kawaler. Hi, Ben. Hello.

40:14Thanks for coming on Ask A Jew. My pleasure. You are a, a writer, journalist. Um, you just had an amazing new series out called Strange Bedfellows, uh, with, uh, Longview, which is our friend Andy Mills. Um- Yes. You are how we are- The podcast is good. Yes, sir... celebrating Pride Month. So this is it. Oh. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. I'm so sorry. [laughs] Happy Pride. Happy Pride. [laughs] Wow, why are we so sad about Pride? No, I, I, I, uh, well, for me, I, I mostly do gay shame. So- Hmm... actually this month- Oh, so does Chayla... is a nice month for me. Yeah. [laughs] Not true.

40:49Which already, already there's a Jewish reference I don't get. It's, it's what? It's High what? No- What?... she's throwing me under the bus here, which is not true at all. I don't know why you're saying that. No, Chaya, Chaya, that's your name. I'm very offended. Jesus Christ. Yeah. [laughs] Well, next week, though- And now you said Jesus Christ. Wow. We're gonna have to cut all of this. What do Jews care about saying, taking the Lord's name in vain? Or, you know- [laughs]... their Lord's name in vain. Only when we're talking about gays. Okay. [laughs] Wait, why are you a gay, why are you a gay shamer?

41:15And during Pride. Oh, that, well, that's just personally for myself. Mm. Um, no, uh, pr- uh, well this is a, a, a large part of what the podcast is about. Um, it's about the, the, the movement from gay to queer and how the movement, uh, became s-s- started from a civil rights movement and became this movement to really redefine the way that society thinks about, defines, um, institutionalizes gender. And, um, and I... And so personal- I'll not get all too, too serious right away, but personally I, I, I feel that, that, that currently Pride symbolizes just a whole lot more than just, you know, let people be free to sleep- Mm-hmm...

41:53with who they wanna sleep with and leave people alone. Um. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little- And Pride used to be a lot of fun. Like, I would go every year, um, and have fun and enjoy myself. And like I w- I, I think I've told this story before, but, um, I used to march with, I used to go with my friends at the Gay Officer Action League. So the NYPD. Ooh. And, uh, it was really fun. The TAIL organization. I was working, but it was the best day to work because we had the entire NYPD band, like, up till, like full marching band playing like YMCA and like super gay songs. Wow. Um- Beautiful...

42:27we had like the NYPD horses like they do in every parade, marching with, like, the Pride flag. Um, and then- And they dyed them purple like in The Wizard of Oz, yes? Yeah. [laughs] 'Cause they're a cop- And then the police commissioner, and then the, all, all the gay-... gay and lesbian cops, uh, and tran- we had, like, two trans. And it was lo- And people were... Oh my God, when you saw them come down that parade route, people would scream like they just saw, like, Lady Gaga. Right. You know? It was, people were crying, like- Not like they just saw Hitler.

42:59Not like they just saw Hitler. [laughs] Or, or Lady Gaga protect Hitler. Well, I mean, he drew a crowd. People, you know. He did. He was a little gay, wasn't he? Got a little, little gayness in him. I mean- Or maybe the Ayatollah, if we wanna be more, more, um, up to date, the new Ayatollah. Yeah, no, the current Ayatollah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saying a lot. Yeah. Um- But what, so it changed, right? Pride changed for the cops. Well- It says it's not like that anymore...

43:20what happened was, around, like, 2017 or something, we started get mounties, so we started to get Canadian cops come down to march with us because they were kicked out of Toronto Pride. Mounties. [laughs] So they came all cute in their red uniforms, and we're like, "Ugh, come to New York, the land of the free. Nobody's ever gonna do that to you." And, um, the gay, the gay, um, organization in New York also had a really good relationship with Heritage of Pride, a great relationship with Stonewall, they would host events at Stonewall.

43:47And then one year, just like this, the activists, not even Heritage of Pride, like, the actual activists there, were like, "You need to kick them out, or..." And then they were like, and then they were like, "Okay, well, you can come, but you can't march in uniform." And the cops were like, "Well, fuck you, we're not gonna march." Wow. And that was the end of that. Yeah. Upsetting. Pretty sad. 'Cause policing- I'm sad... is super gay, and I wish people would realize that. [laughs] Yeah. So- So Ben, what's your background? Where'd you grow up? Who are you? How'd you get into writing?

44:18I'm from Brooklyn. Yeah. Um, I got into writing by, um... I didn't come out to myself as a writer till I was, like, 30. Oh. I did everything I could to avoid, um, my ambitions. Uh- We love you just the way you are, Ben. [laughs] As a writer. Well, th- thanks. It took me, it took me a, a couple decades. But, um, uh, but yes, I moved out to LA when I was in my late 20s. I was pursuing TV writing for- Mm-hmm... for some time. Um, wrote a little pilot. Mm. Got into South by Southwest, but it was 2020, so it never happened. The point is I'm supposed to be a celebrity by this point. Mm. Right. But world events got in the way.

44:54Well, you're kind of a celebrity 'cause you had this, you had a series on the Free Press that was really fun. Ben Meets America. Ben Meets America, where you go and meet Americans. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Do, like, man on the street stuff. We'll, we'll, we'll link to that. Oh, thank you. Mm-hmm. Yes, it was a, it was... You know, I went to all these, these event... You know, I went to a rodeo, I went to the Kentucky Derby, I went to... You know, I went to real American events. Yeah. Mm. And I met my countrymen.

45:19[laughs] And I found that I, I really enjoyed, uh, I enjoyed most of them. What was the craziest thing that happened then? Oh. For you personally. Well, I, I mean, you know, the, the craziest thing? Um, I mean, I remember going to this, like, climate rally in, in New York City, which I had met New York City before. But it, you know, it was... And, um, and being, uh, you know, kind of frozen out of, of interviews by these activists who, who, who didn't wanna talk to me about how they were going to, you know, live without fossil fuels and, um- Mm. DoorDash.

45:51Yeah. I mean, that's not, I wouldn't say that's the craziest story. Um, I think of the, one of the, one really good hit was I was living in West Hollywood at the time, and I went to the, the city council meetings. And they were giving some update on their, like, DEI initiatives, and th- they had said that they had, they had had the city staff take a workshop on, um, understanding racialized space in architecture. [laughs] And so I approached the then mayor afterwards, and I said, "How do you understand racialized space in architecture?" And I got two minutes of this, like, sublimely incoherent- Ugh. Beautiful...

46:30gobbledygook about... And it was just like, "Okay, but what does that have to do with r- race? What does that have to do with..." And they started talking about gender. What does that have to do with gender? What... It just was... The, the, so that was, I mean, that was pretty pheno- I mean, that did, that did, that did well online. It went a little, went viral, and it was just sort of, like, encapsulated, like, the sort of incoherence of this- Yeah... very modern way of thinking and, and perhaps speaking.

46:53When that happened, were you like, like I imagine the producers of The Jinx when the guy was, like, mumbling to himself- Oh... that he killed the men? No, I just- Or were you like, "This is gold"... I kind of sat on it for, like, two months. I don't know what was wrong with me. I, I, I- [laughs] 'Cause it was, it was a sort of a side interview that I, I was covering something else unrelated, and then I just kind of put it in my quiver, and then I, um, and then a couple months later I sent this in.

47:15I was like, "Well, maybe we can run this." And- Wait, I have a question... it went really well. Have you seen- I have no sense of what's newsworthy. Have you seen Borat? Yeah. [laughs] Okay. Yeah. I'm just, like, thinking about Borat here 'cause, like, he also went around talking to, like, regular Americans supposedly. And I, I... It's funny because I recently re-watched it, or not the whole thing, but, like, a big part of it, and I actually felt bad for the- Yeah... people he was talking to. Like, in the beginning- Oh, yeah...

47:41I loved that movie, and I thought it was hilarious, and I, I still think it's f- there are some parts that are- My hot take, Bruno's better. Like- Bruno's a better movie. Bruno. Really? That is really a hot take. Yeah. Well, it's true. Yeah. What can I tell you? [laughs] Borat, look, I loved Borat on the TV show. I thought by the time the movie came out it was kind of over, it was overplayed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Borat segments when he, when he comes, like, as a TV show to America, and when he did, like, throw the Jews down the well and all that- Oh my God... it was like, that was gold. So funny. Yeah.

48:08But you do feel for those Americans who are just trying to be nice and kind and well-meaning. Well, I wasn't doing the thing... I mean, you know, I, I wasn't doing the thing where you go and then you f- you find some yokels and you, and you- Yeah, you weren't tricking them... mock them. Yeah. I mean, I went to, I don't know how crazy this is, but I went to [laughs] there was, in Arkansas there was, like, a duck calling competition where, like- Oh, that's cool... people blow into these, like, kazoo-like things- Yeah...

48:30that sound like ducks, and then, like, compete for, like, who has the most realistic duck call. And it's like this, like, all day affair, like, all weekend long affair. It was, you know, there were, like, levels to it and divisions, and it, it was endless. And then I made friends with one of these... duck people I found, and he took me duck hunting. Oh. So then we had a little extra day of shooting where I went and- That's so cool... shot a duck. Did you catch a duck? He caught ducks. Okay. [laughs] I helped him clean.

48:55Then we came back to his place, helped him clean the duck. Yeah. Like, do you wanna come back to my place and clean a duck? Yeah, yeah. That sounds, like, sexy. That's what he, that's what he said to me. Wait. Did, how did people... This is, like, so stupid to ask, 'cause it's like, it's like we've never met anybody, but we haven't. [laughs] Like, how did people react to- [laughs]... like, being a gay and a Jew, if that came up? If you can't, if you can't hear right now, Ben is, like- Well, I can-... baffled by my question. Oh. [laughs] I know.

49:23I mean, that, well, that was sort of the, I think why the series worked, was there was this kind of, like, unspoken tension of, like, here's this, like, you know, kinda swishy, m- uh, liberal reading homo who's, like, going out and schmoozing- From New York... all of these- Ugh... from New York, no less. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But it was, you know, it was never really, like... I don't know that, I don't know how much we ever really addressed it- Mm. Interesting... which was why it was, like, not tedious to watch, I, I don't think. I mean, I, I- Yeah...

49:49very few people that I spoke to did I get the sense of, like, "Oh, they think I'm, you know- Yeah... weird, different, not..." They, they don't wanna talk to me. Like, you know, I'm just so- Okay... so naturally likable and appealing that... [laughs] It's true. Did you ever watch the, uh, tele- television masterpiece Here Comes Honey Boo Boo? [laughs] Uh- Um. Y- I, I saw clips of it. I know what you're talking about, yeah. Okay. It's phenomenal. Yeah, I'm just like her. Hilah, you know that, right? Like- Of course... he's, like, this, this- Honey Boo Boo...

50:17fat, chubby ki- she probably has, like, three kids of her own right now. She's, like, 15. Yeah. Like, very, very white trashy who went into the pageant world, but so charming, like, just so- Yeah. Yeah... and they're, like, I, I'm sorry, like, they're really, like, t- like, hillbilly. I was gonna say a word that starts with T, but that's not a nice word. Um, as I just heard on a TV show somebody say, there's a fine line between quaint and meth. Mm. Really? And they were, like, on the meth side. Like, nobody had teeth. [laughs] But Honey Boo Boo's uncle, Uncle Pooh Bear, I don't know, whatever his name is, was gay. [laughs] And, and it was, like, very much she's like, and she has this famous line where she's like, "Everybody's a little bit gay."

50:58Hm. That's really- Yeah... and it was just so, like, adorable. I don't know. But isn't there something about, like, Americans just getting to know each other? There, we do, we really do stick in our little circles, and even though, like, college is supposed to be that time where you, like, meet Americans from all over the country and become friends, but- No, it doesn't... you really meet people exactly like you. It's not- Yeah, you meet people like you, and you hang out, and you get pretty- Yeah. Nobody was on meth at Harvard, Ben, when you were there.

51:23Mm, well, half of them were on Adderall, so I mean- [laughs] Different drug. Yeah, that's true. It's slight- is it, like, a molecule or two, like, or a, a, or a m- m- an atom- Yeah... or two different between the t- I don't know. [laughs] I don't know. Clearly I'm like 100% straight. Yeah, true. No, but I do think there's something of too, like in Israel, you end up being, I mean, because you do national service or you're in the army together, you're forced into situations with people that- Right...

51:47you have nothing in common with, and you get to know the rest of the country. I mean, here we, I advocate for national service even, even though I'm, like, against the idea fundamentally- [laughs]... but we could use, we could- You're against the idea of nationals, of an army, of a national... What do you mean? Well, just forcing- Yeah, yeah. No, no, forcing people into, like, at 18 to be, like, in national service. It's your libertarian streak. Yeah, I know, but I, I think there's some- Hm... merit to it. No, I think- Yeah, when you go to college, you meet people who just are kind of like you. Yeah.

52:16From different backgrounds but like you. Well, let's, yeah, I was about to say, no, I'm for the draft. It's very easy for me to say that as someone who's now 41. [laughs] Great, you have four out before the draft. Yeah, kids, go do, go- Well, also the Gen Z, I'm very, like, racist against Gen Z. Oh. Like, I'm- Mm. So I'm like, yeah, send them to the draft. Let them learn. Yeah. Pull their weight. But- Front lines for the, for the, for Gen Z, I say. [laughs] So okay, so you got into writing in your, like, around 30. And why? Yeah. Like, w- were you just, like, hungry to tell the world- My 20s were, like, an abso disaster. I w- I, um, uh, my first job out of college, I was an intern at New York Magazine, which was great. Oh. Mm. Um, I covered some, like, red carpet reporting, uh, then.

53:01I- 'Cause you did, we didn't mention this, but you were in Hasty Puddings, which is, like, the- Oh, yes, I was in the, yes, I was in-... the, the Harvard theater group, which I called, like, the Navy SEALs of, of theater troops. [laughs] Yeah, that was nice of you. It's, it's like a big deal. I mean, it was, it actually was, it was, like, eight shows a week. Like, it was a, it was a t- for, like, a month. It was a r- it was a t- it was, it was grueling. Yeah. Um, and I did it for four years. Wow.

53:20Lord knows why. It was so silly. It was, um, it was fun, but it was a party. And it was also, like, it was the- Are you in touch with people from there? Hm? Are you in touch with anyone from there? Not a single one. We don't speak. Oh. Mm. No, I, um, yes, no, uh, y- sure, a few. But I was there for, like, the four y- it's like, uh, Hasty Pudding is known as, like, the Harvard drag show 'cause, like- Mm... uh, when I was there, it was all, it was all men. They've, they've, uh, it's coed now, or it's n- n- there, there are girls in it. [laughs] Were you there in, like, the '70s? When were you there?

53:48Th- it took them a long time to fix this. Yeah. I mean, it was up until 20, I think... And I wrote a little op-ed in 2015. I said, "You gotta integrate this theater troupe here. You're missing out on the Tina Feyes." Mm. [laughs] And, um, uh, but it wasn't until, like, 2018 or 2019 that, that they s- that they actually, like, let girls join the cast. Wow. But it was always thought of as the Harvard drag show 'cause it was all boys and, like, half the parts were girls, and, and I was there for, like, the four years of all of Hasty Pudding h- history, where, like, the, the entire cast nearly was these straight guys, and- Hm... girls are, like, straight, jocular, kinda fratty, and, um, and then, like, the moment- What celebrities did you have, like, coming to the show?

54:29Jo- oh, the cur- there wa- I, I was on, I was in it with a current celebrity, Josh Brener. He was a- Mm... big head on, um, Silicon Valley, and he's always- Oh, yeah. Oh, I love that show. Yeah, yeah. He was always, I mean, so talented. Like, just, he was just great, just always great. Um, and, uh- Um, yeah. So like, I was there, everyone there was this- with these straight guys, and then the moment I graduated, the next year, like, all the gay boys came in. Oh. [laughs] Aw. Yeah. We're like, "It's safe, he's gone. Phew."

54:59[laughs] Were you guys at Harvard at the same time? And now we've all learned how to be friends with each other and friends with gay people- Aw... and have, you know, healthy relationships. That's nice. Right? So. Were you guys at Harvard at the same time? I mean, oh, I'm glad, I'm glad you mentioned- No... that I went to Harvard, Kyla. I know, yeah. Um- I know. No, you were an undergrad. I went to grad school. Oh. Oh, okay. So I was like... Uh, I went to the Kennedy School. Oh. So don't worry, there's like a 50% acceptance rate. [laughs] Um, [laughs] um, but yeah. The government school. The government school. Yeah.

55:35Yeah, and look at me, doing a podcast. Did you... I, I didn't like Harvard. Um, I was very insecure, for one- Mm-hmm... and uh, and, and never found what I was supposed to be doing. Which, which turned out to be, like, creative writing, which I only took, like, my senior year. Yeah. I, um- But I, uh, what did you think? I, I, [sighs] I have a bit of like a, a, I don't know, an outsider complex, where I'm s- I still like, even in my second year, every morning when I walked through I was like, "Holy shit, I'm at Harvard." Um, I was a little disappointed by my, some of my fellow, a lot of my fellow students. Uh, everybody was smart, don't get me wrong, smarter than me, a lot of them.

56:15But like, there was, it was pre-wokeness, and there was a lot of like that, it was kinda coming in, this like kinda activism. Like, wait a minute, are we not like... Like, I'll give you an example. We had, we took an economics class and, um, some guy was like handing out before the class flyers about like how we shouldn't study this kind of economics, it's capitalist. Bl- and I'm like, you know what? I wanna hear what the 350-year-old institution wants to teach me about economics first, because they seem to be really good at stuff. And then maybe once I master that, I'll learn what you think is cool.

56:46[laughs] Um, but, uh, you know, so, so there was a, a lot of that activism, but I don't feel like... I'm, I'm, let's put it this way, I'm not in touch with a whole ton of people from there. Hmm. Yeah. So it sounds like, like, uh, actually that's, I remember that it was a sort of proto-wokeness. I remember writing something for the Crimson about, it wasn't very good, but it was a, I was grappling towards, I was, I was writing something in opposition to wokeness before wokeness was a real thing. Hmm.

57:14And I was like, it was specifically about homophobia, and I was like, we're living in, like, the era of, like, post-homophobia. Like, we've gotten past this, and yet there are these, like, I don't know, sad sacks who seem to think that, like, the world is still, or at least Harvard is still this place of, of, uh... Which actually was coming from, if I may say, a rather privileged position, because I was a theater kid. Mm-hmm. I mean, there was a lot of homophobia in, in, in, in s- the sports world, certainly, at Harvard. Right.

57:42Hmm. But I think I, it was like a sort of, uh, it was a, it was a rallying cry against humorlessness, I think. Yeah. Oh, humorlessness, that's a really good way to think about it. Yeah. 'Cause it is, like, a lot of, you know, taking yourself too seriously and... But what's going on with like, okay, so let me ask you a question. So what's going on with the gays and the Jews? 'Cause I thought we were cool. Oh. [laughs] Um, and w- about a week after October 7th, um, a guy I know who was a Broadway guy, lovely, lovely guy, incredibly talented and successful, wouldn't hurt a fly, um, not Jewish, not connected to Judaism whatsoever, posted this screenshot, this is like days after October 7th, about this, uh, gay guy in Gaza talking about how much he's worried for, about his lover, who just, who's gonna get killed. And this, and I'm like, what the hell is going on?

58:39We are still counting how many people are being kidnapped, and there's this like, already this movement of like, but the gays in Gaza, are they, are, are they gonna be okay? Like, where is this coming from? [laughs] Ben, answer for, answer for them, Ben. I love you're asking Ben to t- uh, tell you the answer to this. Let's hear it. Yeah. No, I mean, like- Well, you're more in-... off the top of my head... the gays and dram than I am. Look, it's, I mean, I think theater kids, speaking as a former theater kid, um, have... I mean, uh, it's a, it is a compelling moral story, what people, the, the, the free Palestine, uh, um, political kind of project. Hmm.

59:23Like, a group of people who are, who live these wretched lives alongside this flourishing country, and they've been oppressed by these people, and they ha- you know, I mean, it's, it's, and it's, and of course, [laughs] there, these, there's a war on, and, um, and no one likes seeing dead children. So I love how everyone's like, "Well, let's not talk about Israel," but here we are. I know. [laughs] And then the L broke you under the... I know. I'm sorry, I didn't realize, I didn't think this was- Now I have the most, like, impromptu analysis of, like, why theater kids are free Palestine that I've never given any fucking thought before.

59:53Wait, I thought we're not gonna talk about- So give me an office hour just outta my ass... Israel- I think-... and then, like, the war. I thought, I thought we could, we could shit on people being, like, annoying. [laughs] Right. Yeah, you would think- Like, I wouldn't mind if they posted that after they posted about all the g- gay people that were killed at the Nova Festival. It just seems weird to me that it kinda floats up in their, in their timeline.

1:00:15I think people, I think, look, American Je- look, I think Americans don't think of Jews as an oppressed class, and so you're not gonna- Yeah... so that's why you didn't see this outpouring of rage about what happened to the poor Jews, because, because America has been such a uniquely non-antisemitic country, for the most part, in the, in the p- in, in recent memory anyway. Hmm. I mean, certainly in the, in the '50s and '60s it was more sort of overt. But everyone my age, I mean, look, I grew up... I, I never experienced antisemitism. Mm-hmm. So, you know, who, who seems more victimized?

1:00:49The people who, who, who live in this sort of-... limbo of political nothingness or Israel, which is strong and vibrant and we- wealthy. I mean, you know, I think that the analysis doesn't go much farther than that for a lot of people. Can we- Can we discuss your skin? 'Cause it's really good. [laughs] Your skin looks great. You don't wanna talk more about Gaza? No, I wanna talk about how you, you're, you went to Korea and injected yourself with a bunch of stuff. I mean, look at his skin. It's really nice. Oh. Look at him. Thank you.

1:01:20It's really good. He went to Gaza and got some work. [laughs] No, I'm kidding. [laughs] You went, you went to Korea. You famously went to Korea for reasons, right? Yeah, this is what I'm now most famous for, 'cause I went... 'Cause I had did, I wrote a piece about this for the Times of London, and then they did a, we did a little video accompanying it that went mega viral. It did go mega viral. No, like 12 million views on TikTok and Instagram. Wow. So what do you do? Wh- what did I do, or what do I do in, in general? No, what did you do in Korea? What can we do?

1:01:49Oh, so my brother is, like, obsessed with Korean skincare via TikTok- Mm-hmm... 'cause he's addicted to TikTok. I have a gay brother who's, like, much more functional than I am. [laughs] And he's, uh, [laughs] and he, and he, he wanted to go to Korea for skincare and he invited me, and I was like, "Yeah, sure, you know. I'm... If you're paying." So we, um, so we went to Korea, and, uh, and we got a little consultation, and they said, "Oh, you really must do something about these crow's feet and your eyes, for one."

1:02:18[laughs] So, I mean, they, they actually Botoxed me up, so I mean, that you can get here. You can do that here, yeah. Um, but in Korea, he wanted to go to Korea because there are treatments, everything's cheaper there, for one, but also there are, there, there is a treatment there called Rejuran, which is not FDA approved here for injections. That's a big no. And Rejuran is derived from salmon sperm. Mm. And you can get it injected into your face. Here, I think you can get it just slathered onto your face, um, no problem.

1:02:45But if you want the real good shit, it's, it's, it's, it was like 150 shots in my face. No way. It was the- What do you mean by 150 shots of salmon sperm- Or something-... in your face? Some derivative thereof. Which really hurt, right? Horrible. The worst pain- Really?... I've ever experienced. Wow. Yeah. But is it worth it? Like, 'cause your skin looks great. Yes. For the 12 million views, it was worth it. [laughs] And when I get my... It's great. People say, but I mean, I don't, it's all lost on, it's all totally wasted on me- Right... 'cause I'm like, I just see my face. I'm- Right... you know.

1:03:16You don't see, like, a big difference, I mean, when you look at yourself? Maybe. I don't, I don't know. I also, I don't drink, so I think that's the, that's- Oh, that's why your skin is nice... people always say I have good skin. Yeah. That explains it. Yeah. I feel bad for women who, I mean, and I guess men too, but especially for women my, I'm 40, I'm almost 46, and, like, we're not allowed to age. We're just not allowed to. They're not letting us. Like, my grandmothers aged and became, they looked like grandmothers, you know? Who got Botox. They had lines. They had dark patches on their faces.

1:03:47They looked- Um, but you have to, but you have to, like, appear in, in public with these people. Yeah. I mean, but it was okay. Like, we were allowed to, and now I feel like we are not allowed to age. We have to fix every single thing on our face, every single thing on our body, and I, I... It's unsustainable. I mean, it's really unsustainable. Well, that's all due, we just wanna look hot. We just wanna look hot. That's not, that's not normal. Like, I don't think it's- Don't we want to look hot? It's the most normal thing in the world- No... since cavemen wanted to look hot. No, no. Not for women our age.

1:04:14Like, it's, there's a time when you get, you're over that and you wanna just look, you wanna look pres- I'm not saying you don't wanna look good, you don't wanna look attractive, but this idea that we wanna look like 21-year-olds or 18-year-olds, I mean, the fact that my nieces, who I love with all my heart, buy the same skincare as me, like, it's- No, that's crazy... this is not, this is really not good for women. It's not sustainable. No, I wanna look like a hot 44-year-old. Like, I wanna look- But what does that mean? Just look hot. 44-year-olds are allowed to have lines, no? Yeah.

1:04:45Like, we have- You want the fewest lines possible if you can- Right... if you can- If you can help it... you can make it ha- If you can help it... make it happen. I mean, without going to- I mean, why do we do our hair? Right?... crazy extremes. Yeah. Why, you know. My hair is not- Hair... naturally this, like, perfectly sun-streaked. It looks really good, actually. Thank you. 'Cause I put- This is my natural hair... spent a lot of money on it. [laughs] No, I'm not arguing against looking attractive and feeling good about yourself. I think, I'm just- Sounds like you are... I'm concerned that there's an obsession with not a- not allowing us to age gracefully, and it's women, it doesn't make women feel good. You, you're- Mm... fighting something that is natural. I mean, we're, this is how our bodies are. Yeah. We age.

1:05:26And I just, like, I, and look, I say this, and I sometimes look in the mirror and I'm like, "Oh, my God," like, I see all these spots and I have all these things, and what should I do? And then I'm like, but that's pa- I mean, but I'm living. Like, this is life. I mean, I- Well, sperm, sperm injections aside- [laughs]... I'll say something pretty controversial right now. Sen- send me the hate mail. Just add it on to all the hate mail. Um, sometimes I see a woman my age or older, or younger even, that I'm like, you know, if you just went to the hairdresser- Stopped?... right now. Mm. Oh. No. Yeah.

1:06:01And if you just, like- Yeah, yeah... got, like, you know, updated your wardrobe a little bit. Like, sometimes it's about, like, small things or maybe big things you can do, but not, like, everybody needs to, like, get Botox every time they see a wrinkle. Yeah. Um, but, like, more, like, you know, there's so much you can do nowadays with your appearance. Yeah. Our grandmothers didn't have that. They had, like, a lipstick. Something came across my Instagram, and I reached out to them, 'cause now this is, like, my beat for The Times of London. I, I'm- [laughs]... writing about beauty, which is, uh, which is- Did you get a million followers?

1:06:32No, not a million, but I got, but I got s- I got a couple thousand from, on Instagram- Ooh... which was nice. But anyway, but, but, but I, I'm going now on, like, I'm having a consultation tomorrow on peptides. Mm. Ooh. Whatever those are. Yeah. These, like, magical other kind of injections. It's like a youth serum. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, uh, where was I going with, what the he- I, I- You were talking about something- I think you were on Botox... you inject yourself with. No, no, no. You came across something on Instagram 'cause of your- Yeah. Thank you.

1:07:01Jesus Christ. You're welcome. Okay. So, uh, yeah, it was like, look at these two faces. These are the same, this is the same guy. But one of these men is, like, clearly better looking than the other, and there are, like, 72 subtle differences between these two photos that, like, these are the things you can do to yourself non-surgically to optimize your face. Oh. And I was like, "Amazing." I was almost like, "Here's $150. Fix my face." But then I was like, "Oh, wait, I'm a journalist. Maybe I can write about this-" Mm-hmm... and get a little, a little freebie."

1:07:33So I wrote them, and that's where the story ends, 'cause I haven't heard back. And who were you writing this for? Are you allowed to say? Times of London. Oh, okay. I mean, I don't know if they have it green-lit yet, but, like, I'm, you know- Right, right... I, I, they want this to be a, a more regular thing. Oh, what a dream. Just like, I want all this free shit, too, and I'm like- I know... "I'll write about it for the, you know, Jewish Israel at Times." [laughs] Yeah, this is why I write about theater. Ask a Jew Gazette. Right. Yeah, yeah.

1:07:55Um, oh, that's so cool. Wait, so you, you inject yourself with a lot of things. No, I don't do this myself, but I... What do you mean a lot of things? No, 'cause you're doing- Oh, right. I s- I do- [laughs] You're like, "Oh, right, I do, actually"... I've also been messing with testosterone recently. Yeah. Oh. What's the testosterone thing about? I'm trying to get into more fights. [laughs] Is it working? What do you think? [laughs] No, but what's... Honestly, I don't know anything about testosterone. Like, what is, what, what does it do for your, your physique- Okay, so-... or mind?...

1:08:28well, it makes you, supposedly it helps with drive, with focus, with sleep, with... I mean, you know, but also who am I getting this information from? The people advertising testosterone to me on my Instagram. Mm. But- The testosterone lobby... also my, my, I have a trainer who is, who has, um, who recommends this. Um, you know, you can trust anything your personal trainer tells you. This is true. Yeah. Uh, and, um, and I know people who have, who have taken testosterone and found, found that it helps with specifically focus and drive and energy. Like, my energy is, like, I would generally...

1:09:02Also, like, I, I think the, the thing is I seem to have chosen a career path. As much as I would love to, to be, to, to have, like, a regular stable employment gig, which I really would, but, you know, when you're in journalism, it's, it's, a lot of it is freelancing. Mm-hmm. And so I have to be very, um, self-driven and disciplined and, and it's, um, it's often quite hard to know, like, what to, you know, what, what to prioritize, how to s... I mean, this sort of executive functioning stuff- Mm-hmm. Hmm... is... So I actually don't... So maybe it's an executive functioning problem. It's like I certainly have, like, an ADHD diagnosis. I mean, for whatever that may be worth.

1:09:43Um, but I al- but I, I just, I also feel like I have a real kind of, like, pessimism in me that, like, that doesn't allow me to sort of live up to my potential because I have this sort of automatically kind of, like, defeatist point of view of, like, "Oh, what's the point?" Hmm. Which is so stupid. That's the Jewish part. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I'm trying to become less Jewish. I'm taking testosterone. [laughs] That's how they should advertise it. Be more like my father. Yeah.

1:10:07Testosterone, um- I'm trying to become, yeah... less Jewish... an overachiever. That's so interesting. It almost sounds, like, like, sexist because it's like, "Oh, inject yourself with testosterone and you'll become more, like, better at things." But I believe it. Yeah. I walk around like an incompetent woman all day. [laughs] C- can you drive better now? Oh, gosh. You know what? I w- well, I was the only person in Los Angeles who knew how to drive. [laughs] My family won't get into a car with me.

1:10:34[laughs] So this, I actually don't think that this is gonna help on that front. [laughs] I'm as competent a driver as anyone. But isn't it true- Hmm? Isn't it true, though, that, like... I, I mean, 'cause I, what you're describing about yourself, I feel the same way, and I know from other conversations with Yael that she also feels that way. [laughs] And so, like, I'm jealous of people who just have this, like, go-get-'em attitude about life where it's like, "Oh, I have this idea. Oh, this is a great idea, and I'm gonna go make it happen."

1:11:00And, like, I have ideas all day, and all I do is tell myself, "That's the stupidest idea." Yeah. And I'll, I'm, like, so excited about it. Then 10 minutes later, I'm like, "Oh my God, how embarrassing that I thought that was a good idea." Yeah. And it's just, I don't know where that voice comes from. It's a myth. Well, I mean- Yeah... thank God for that voice, because it probably saves you from looking like an idiot half the time. I know. I mean, you know. But then people get things done. Like, I don't know.

1:11:21People do get things done, and the people who don't- Do you- Hmm? Oh, no, sorry. Uh, first of all, we always interrupt ourselves and our guests and each other, so if you don't interrupt us back, you're not gonna get a word in. Okay. Okay. Um, but I have a question for both of you. Great. Would you trade, like, 10% more ambition for 10% less, like, being awesome? You know, like- Oh, no. No? Yeah. 'Cause I know a lot of people who are not, like- If I were smart, I'd say yes. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

1:11:49If you're super... Like, I know a lot of people who aren't super interesting and not, they're not, like, they don't suck, but they're, like- Well, they think they are interesting, and they- Yeah... yeah, yeah. And but they work so hard, and some of them make it. Some of them do really well. Yeah. I know. And those are the people at, like, in school who did... Like, I spent so much time at Harvard being li... Like, I f- I feel like it's okay to talk about Harvard because I'm talking about how, like, insecure I was at Harvard, so, like- Yeah. That's fine... I should be able to deal with that. It's fine.

1:12:13Um, I spent, like, so, like, it was, it was terrifying. You know, every time I'd say something in class, I would spend the rest of the class, like, running over in my mind what I'd said. Was it perfect? Like, did I make any mistakes? Did I make an... You know, like, I could not... I, I was so uncomfortable with the idea of making a mistake. And when y- if you live like that, you're gonna, you're just not gonna put yourself out there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was looking back at, like, some of my early videos or thinking back on them, 'cause they're so hard to look at.

1:12:39Like, the first videos that I made when I was just, like, going out in West Hollywood and, like, chatting with people and, like, sassing people at these dumb gay little events I was at, like, they're mostly stuff that I would never put online now. Like, it was just- Hmm... it was trying so hard. It was obnoxious. Yeah. It was, it was just me. It was, it was just too much. And but I remember thinking at the time, like, "Oh my God," like, "I'm really onto something," like, "This is great." Hmm.

1:13:06And, um, and thank God that I did put those things out there, because I ended up getting better at making these things. Right. Yeah. You know? And- I would trade, I would trade some of my awesomeness for [laughs] um, a little bit of discipline- Hmm... and courage. I think those are two things that I could use, like, that would just help me take, like, you know, what I think I could be and what I, what I... Like, the skills and the talents that I have. But I think I get in my own way because of my absolute lack of discipline, and also just the cur- I think the courage piece is a big part of it too. It's, it's... Yeah.

1:13:45It's also grit. Like, you need... Right? Like, for me, it's like keep going even when things don't go your way. Yeah. And like remember, you know what I'm thinking of? This is, like, a really weird example, but I once read this story about this, um, genius woman who's, like, s- one of those people who finished high school when they were, like, 10 and- Yeah... you know, got a PhD when they were 15 or whatever. And, and apparently this happens sometimes, like, she didn't start speaking till she was, like, five. Hmm. But she started speaking in complete sentences. Right.

1:14:13Right, I've heard that. And I'm like, I feel like we're trying. Sometimes we go through life being like, "Okay, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm not gonna stumble. I'm just gonna wait till it's all perfect, and then I'm gonna go for it." Like, you can't. You have to- You can't... you have to make shitty West Hollywood videos- Yeah. Yeah... or whatever to get better. Right. Yeah, and- Especially in comedy, right? Yeah. I mean, I, like, you know, I recognized somehow that in the comedy world, 'cause I kinda tried to come up in comedy. U- I mean, again, it was not, it was never as, um, uh, concerted as it could've been, but, like, I, I, I sort of recognized there, there were so many people in comedy, so much competition in comedy, that it was better if I wanted to be funny to be, like, the funny guy in journalism. Hmm.

1:14:53And so, um, so that was- That's true... sort of one way that I kind of hacked my own- Right... kind of pessimism. 'Cause I really just felt like, oh, I'll never stand out in this crowd. And yeah, so. I think a lot of it also has to do with the fact that we're living in a time where it looks like people make it big very easily. Hmm. And so no one really wants to put in a lot of the grunt work and the hard work that it takes to, like, be successful because it looks to us, like, you know, these people just, you know, will put out some lifestyle videos, and then they have 4 million- Yeah...

1:15:28followers on Instagram- Yeah... and TikTok and, like, what did they do, you know? And really, like, that's just not real. Life is all about, like, the grunt work, the hard work every single day. The... A- that's why I, I went back to that word of discipline because nothing comes easily, right? Like, you- And changing course too... if you wanna be anything... And it's what? And, like, changing course and being like, "You know, I'm- Yeah... making these videos about cooking- Right...

1:15:50and it's going okay, but maybe I need to make videos more about, like, whatever, kitchens or something related," and like- Yeah... being flexible. What always helped me was, was making commitments, external commitments that I- Oh, yeah... had to meet. Like, you know, when I was writing, working on scripts, I would, like, invite my closest friends and f- people I knew I could fuck up in front of, I would invite them to, like, Zoom-based readings of some script- Ooh, that's hard though...

1:16:14I had to finish. And I'd be like- Yeah... you know, "So okay, by this date, there's gonna be a draft of this, and people are gonna come read it," and, you know. Yeah. So that was, that was always a, that was a, something I happened on late in my attempts to break into TV writing, but. Yeah. I mean, it al- it happens to everyone. I remember, like, I, you know, I teach a Torah class every week, and it's, it's pretty well received. Oh. And- I got a question about the Torah. Oh. [laughs] Sorry. Go for it. You just encouraged me to interrupt you.

1:16:40All right. Yeah. So I'm studying the Torah with this Chabad rabbi- Oh... 'cause these Chabad people... Are you Chabad H- uh- Yes, I am... yes. Okay, so you, you guys are like the mafia. Like, once you let them in, like- [laughs]... you, they will never leave you alone. But- Wait, who's the rabbi? They're probably related. [laughs] His name is, um, uh- Mendel... Moshe Kaplan. Oh, okay. Mendel. N- no, Moshe. Do you know him? Close enough. Moshe Kaplan. Uh- Yeah... he's great. He's great. He's... I know him through a rabbi named Shmuley Hecht, who's a Chabad rabbi who runs a- At Yale. Yes.

1:17:09[laughs] So they, they had me... W- do you have, do you have feelings about him? No, no. I actually just was walking with my son, and we ran into his son. They're good friends. Anyway- Oh... anyway. [phone rings] One second. Someone's calling me. No, no. No. Shmuley Hecht. [laughs] Oh, sorry. No. Uh, let's silence that so that doesn't happen again. Apologies. No worries. Um, okay. So anyway, so, so, so Shmuley texts me and he's like, "Hey, would you like to study the Talmud for 18 minutes a week on, over Zoom- [laughs]... with this guy?" And I am a say yes. I s- Yeah...

1:17:43my philosophy is say yes unless you have a really good reason to say no. Okay. So I said, "Okay." So Moshe and I start studying the Talmud, and I realize, "Why am I studying the Talmud? I haven't even read the Torah." Like, I don't- Right... this is like read. So, so I'm like, let me just start, let's just start with the Torah. So we're reading the Torah. We're still on Genesis. And, and we also read this Talmudic commentary during it. Rashi. Right. Rashi. You know Rashi? Yeah, of course. So this Talmudic rabbi, Rashi- He's not a Talmudic rabbi. Sorry to correct you. Oh. He lived- Thank you.

1:18:12Glad we're here... 500 years after the Talmud. Anyway, go on. He's in the... But I thought he is the Ta- the Talmud, he's the one in the Talmud. He's... No, he, he's a commentator on- I thought the Talmud was commentator... it, the Ra-... [laughs] The Talmud is a collection of teachings, stories, laws that the rabbis 500, 600 and 700 years before Rashi collected in yeshiva, and they, like, put it together into this kind of anthology. And Rashi wrote a commentary on the Torah and on the Talmud. He, he c- he, he's, he's clarifying- And we wonder why people hate us... he's clarifying a lot of the- I mean... understanding of it. But yes, go on.

1:18:51Doesn't matter. Oh, he's clarifying. Okay. Yeah. So he's n- so he's two, he's two degrees removed from the Torah. Yes. 'Cause he's commenting on w- not just the Torah, but also the- The Torah and the-... commentary on the Torah... correct. Okay. So according to Rashi- Yeah... and he gets this from Genesis, and I'll ask Yael, Yael, why did God, so why did God create, um, Eve, like, out of Adam, or whatever the, however it was? So he wouldn't be lonely Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:19:18But, um, what prompted the creation of Eve? Like, what was the thing that happened- Adam was like, "Is it just me and you here?" [laughs] Like, what- No, 'cause there was no... Do- I mean, can we get some ladies up in here? Okay, I'll get to the point. So according to this Rashi guy, God didn't create Ad- Eve until... He'd created all these other animals- Right... and he didn't create Eve until Adam had shtupped every other beast and fish- [laughs] No... and insect or whatever on the- What? Yes. That A- that, that not only- Even the salmon? Even the s- even the salmon.

1:19:52Even the g- even- He didn't actually do it. He just looked around and realized that he didn't- That's what-... have a partner. I know. That's what you would think if you read the Torah. It's like, and A- and Adam realizing that none of these people were compa- none of these beings were compatible- [laughs]... was like, "This isn't gonna work." Right. And God created Eve. But Rashi, I mean, like, I... Believe me, I said to Moshe, I was like, "Are you s- actually telling me that Rashi thinks that Adam didn't realize he didn't have a woman, that he needed a woman, he didn't realize that until he had fucked all these other animals?"

1:20:24I'm not sure about that. I wonder what animal was the last straw for him. No, I don't know about that. You know what I mean? I wonder what animals he was like, "This, this should work," and then at what animal was he like, "I can't do this anymore." Look, Chaya, I know you're looking at some, some book, some- I'm looking up Rashi right now because I'm not certain. Some ancient text. Well, I looked up... I, I asked Claude, okay? [laughs] So... And I said, "Claude, did- Rabbi Claude... I said, "Claude, did Adam fuck all the animals before Eve came along?" [laughs] And Claude said, "No, that's ridiculous." No.

1:20:51And I was like, "Okay, but, like, what about this Rashi guy?" 'Cause Claude being... Yeah... this Talmudic scholar. And then Claude was like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, that is a thing." [laughs] And I was like, "Well, why did you say it wasn't a thing?" And it was like, "Because you were being kind of flippant about it." And I was like, "I don't think I was being..." He was like, "You were sort of joking about it." He- And I was like, "Claude, why is my AI tone-policing me?" Also, like, I didn't... Like, I literally said... Like, I didn't put, get any sass to it.

1:21:12I said the most straightforward way. I mean, "Did Adam have sex with all the animals before Eve came along?" And then Claude was like- I mean-... "You're right, you didn't. You didn't." I, it's- It was a classic AI interaction. This is gonna be extremely pedantic, but, like, if you go according to the story, that would be impossible 'cause Adam and, they were all created on the same day. Oh, oh, you're te- oh, you're telling me the Torah is a bit of a stretch? [laughs] No, 'cause they were all created on the same day. When would he have had time? There was no time. Am I- There's zero time... I'm sorry.

1:21:39You're the, like, the Orthodox Jewish lady here. Yes. [laughs] You're making an argument about logic and rationality here. [laughs] Yeah. This is the best episode ever. This is the easiest ever conversation. I'm learning so much. No, I don't beli- I don't... I have to look. I wish I had a, I had Rashi in front of me. I have it in the- Hm. You have Claude. Wait. I don't believe Rashi says that- Yeah... but I'm gonna look it up. Chaya. Do you have, like, an adults only section? Maybe that's where you'll find Rashi in your- [laughs]... in your home. Chaya, did God invent all the animals?

1:22:05Like, what about all the spinoff animals, like the, the Labradoodles? Did he invent them on that day too? No. O- or did he just invent, like, the main ones? I think Labradoodles were made in the, in a, like, a tube. No? I mean, it's a- I don't know, but-... genetically altered kind of dog, I think... so did he invent maybe the main animals? I think so. Like the big five? Like, you go on safari, there's the big five. No. Like he- I think, like, the original dog, you know? Okay. Like, the for- like Plato. You know, Plato talks about forms, you know? Yeah. Like the original, like, I think. I mean, I don't know.

1:22:36So it would go a bat- How would I know? I wasn't there... maybe a giraffe. This is a religion podcast. My goodness. [laughs] Something... I think maybe a representative from land, a representative from sea. No. I mean, I, if you, if you believe in the theological, you know, stor- like, if you believe in the Torah as divine, I think you believe that God created all the animals. Yeah. And now since science in the last 150 years- We have Labradoodles. Yeah... well, I mean, we've genetically modified some animals. I mean, even earlier actually they were doing that already.

1:23:06But, um, just through breeding and stuff. But no, God created all the animals. I was gonna create- And then created Adam, and Adam was lonely. It doesn't say he ha- I don't, I don't remember ever learning- And horny apparently... and I have learned every Rashi in the Torah. I don't remember ever reading that. But I will, I will look it up. Should we ask Claude again? [laughs] I, I think we should have another podcast where it's just Ben goes to Torah study and comes back with questions. I know. I mean, I don't- That is good...

1:23:32I, I, no, I think I need to... Okay, okay. Uh, um. I'm gonna... I, I can look it up. I have a Torah ri- on my phone. Why am I... I can look it up right now. Okay. I said, "Did Adam, did God make Eve for Adam only after Adam had tried having sex with all the other animals?" [laughs] And it was like, "No." And I was like, "Okay, but is it in the Talmud?" Y- and it said, "Yes," essentially. The Babylonian Talmud, Yevamot- Yeah... states that Adam had intercourse with all the animals and beasts and was not satisfied until he had intercourse with Eve.

1:24:01A few important pieces of context. That's so, that's super romantic. One, it's midrash aggadah- Yeah... not legal text. Right. This is homiletical- Yeah... interpretive tradition. Right. Homiletical. Yeah, I mean, like, it's- Ben, this is how... This is, like, Glenn Greenwald and, and Candace Owen are gonna tweet this- [laughs]... like, in half an hour now. Oh, amazing. They're gonna be like- We definitely have to promote this... "People know-" Yes, no... "that the Jews, h- it says in the Talmud that the Jews should have sex with animals?" No. Yeah. It's against Torah law.

1:24:32I mean, what are you talking about? It's explicitly against Jewish law, bestiality- It says the, it says the, um-... after, after there are women... don't shtup the- But what if there are no women? What if you're, like, in the... What if you're stuck- No. What if you're, like, stuck on a- No... desert island- No... like Tom Hanks? It's against Biblical law, absolutely. Now Claude also says, "It's a reading of the Genesis text, not something invented from nowhere." I beg to differ. Rashi, citing this Talmudic passage- Yeah...

1:24:57frames the midrash as making explicit what is already implicit in the text, i.e. that Adam found not suitable companion among the animals, which the rabbis interpreted in a very literal way. I'm sorry. That's insane. No. You don't interpret that in a very literal way and come up with, "Oh, he must have fucked all the animals." That's, that's crazy. No. Oh, if he's not suitable, he just wasn't attracted to them. I know. But, but first, but Claude- He didn't try... and my rabbi- [laughs]... and Rashi seem to think that Adam didn't find these- N- nothing was suitable means I'm- This poor guy you're learning- I'm not...

1:25:30this poor guy you're learning Torah with, is he young? How old is he? He's around- Does he-... my age. Maybe. Oh, he's your... Okay, fine. He- Yeah... can handle it then. That's- Oh, yeah... totally 18 minutes. He's, he's a doll. No, that's funny. And al- Is it just you in the class, or are there other people in the class? Yeah, yeah, it's a one-on-one, and it- we always go longer than 18 minutes. It's, it's- Yeah... I mean, you know, I need it. Like, I, I've never, I've never read the, the Bible, right? I mean- I would... Can I do that, Chayla? Can I learn about, uh, 18 minutes Talmud? Yeah. Why not? Of course. With you?

1:25:55Or with somebody else? Oh, my God, you... We could do it, but you can do it with anyone, but we could totally do it. Yeah? I'm honest about animals having sex. But honestly, like- [laughs] There's a lot of interesting stories in the Torah that would make your eyebrows go up on your forehead. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of sex. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're humans. I mean, that's the... It's, it's natural. I mean, it's part- Well, it's natural for us to do it with each other. Yes, not with animals. But how did we find that out, Ben? Gosh, good point. I can tell you, I remember learning this as a kid, and then it...

1:26:27Even, like, I studied... I mean, I went to seminary after high school, right? For... That's what girls do in my community. You go to seminary. And we spent the entire year of seminary just on the first two chapters of Genesis. I mean, that was how in depth we studied those two chapters. We had the most incredible teacher. Her name was Mrs. Torsky. I actually still have my notes, even though this was, like, 28 or 29 years ago. But she... I mean, I remember that, like, what we learned about that was that Adam looked around, and he realized that he was alone.

1:27:00Every other animal- Yeah... had a pair, you know? And he knew. We never... No one ever said he actually slept with them or tried them or... I don't know. It sounds like they knew- Kind of a rabbit... there was this interpretation out there, and they really had to hammer home to you kids. Yeah, like, it's not that, right. It was... But anyway, thank God we made it through. I just wanna read my, my notes from this session because I write little notes for myself. [laughs] They say, "Feeder kids, salmon sperm, sex with animals." [laughs] Oh, my God. Wow. That's a collection.

1:27:32[laughs] If someone stops listening to this tape- That's the greatest hits... did you interview Ben Kweller? Yeah. [laughs] Wait, Ben, I have another, I have another question. Somebody told me to ask you about the time that you... [laughs] I'm s- I'm sor- I'm sorry if I'm not supposed to ask you this. I'll, I will- No, no... delete it if not. Somebody w- uh, told me, "Ask him about the time he fainted on Ozempic." Who t- That's so funny. Well, I was... It was tirzepatide. [laughs] Yeah, I, I... That, that... I mean, that's the story.

1:28:00So I to- tirzepatide is one of these GLPs. Uh, I took it for, you know, the better part of six months, and I, and I, and I, it... and I lost, like, 15 pounds, but, uh, you also... You, I mean, you stop eating, or you stop eating a l- You just don't get your caloric intake. So every time I stood up, I'd be dizzy. Oh, my God. Every so often I would, like, slightly lose consciousness. [laughs] Like, I re- like, I stood up, and I was holding these berries, and, like, I dropped the berries. Like, I didn't have the mental, you know, the- Wow...

1:28:28the power to, like, continue holding the object that I was... That was a little weird. And then once I was in my apartment, and, um, uh, my assistant, who's really, he's really this advisor. He's this, he's this, he's this kid I pay to help keep me, um, to help me realize my goals. He's very good. And he, uh, he was over at my apartment pla- you know, so we could strategize about the week. And I come to, and he's standing over me. He's like, "Are you okay?" [laughs] And I had fainted. Oh, my God. So I was... You would think then I'd be like, "Okay, let's ease up on the tirzepatide." But, um, but no.

1:29:03But, like, it works. He... Well, I mean, it did work. I mean, I, I got, you know, I got abs. Wow. Wow. They're saying there are a lot of benefits coming out now with, from these GLP-1s that are gonna be, like, game-changing, like, with cancer. I know. I wonder. I don't know. May- maybe, but it, it, it... If you're not eating enough to have energy- Yeah... to live and function, like, it's... I mean, I also had no energy. I was, you know- Right... I was just- I feel like I have a lot of faith in myself that I would be able to override it- [coughs]... because I don't need to be hungry. You could do it with steak. Hmm? A good steak, I could eat- Yeah... a meal of.

1:29:38Yeah. I'm like, I think I could take them and still get enough calories. You think so? I believe in myself, yeah. I, I honestly think, though, that there are different kinds of people, and the GLP-1s are not for everyone. Like, I come from... I mean, we have weight problem in my family, right? Like, we are j- I don't know if it's genetic, if it's behavioral, if it's both. We are fat people, okay? [laughs] And, like, that is very different than someone who casually needs to lose 10 or 15 pounds. It's, it's...

1:30:10I think there's different types of people, and I think the GLP-1s might be a miracle for the people who really, truly, like, it's a genetic issue or a metabolic issue or whatever rather than if I just tweak my diet. Like, my husband, who is not a fat person, his doctor told him he had to lose 10 pounds. He just stopped eating cereal and milk for breakfast, and he lost 10 pounds. Like, he started- Wow... eating a banana in the morning. He's lucky. I have to fight tooth and nail for every single pound, right? Well, have you done it? Are you on the GLPs? I was, yeah. I mean, it's, it works. Like, it does work for people.

1:30:45Why did you stop? Well, I started with one, and I had the worst headaches, and it was horrible. I couldn't, I couldn't do it, so I'm j- gonna try another one, and we'll s- Oh. I mean, hopefully it will work. But the point is, is that, like, it's... I've seen people that I'm close with, it's really changed their lives, but they were people who needed, like, a lot of help. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't just a matter of adjusting a small part of their diet. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think for people who are like, "Oh, I wanted to lose weight, so I just stopped drinking three cans of Coke a day- Yeah...

1:31:18and I lost weight," I'm like, yeah. Gosh, if you're drinking three cans of Coke a d- I know... that just sounds crazy. I know. Yeah. Um- What about diet? I would like to try that. I would like to try it 'cause I just would like to try it, right Yeah... and I'm lazy, and I don't wanna stop- Yeah, but-... eating pizza. So I'm like, if I can get something- Well, yeah, but you don't, that's why you do it, because you- Yeah... you, you will, you... It's not about wanting whatever. It just happens.

1:31:41You just don't eat- But is it true that you stop wanting things in general, that you just have less passion? Oh. People say that Possibly. I, I, I've heard that. Um, you- Does it help with other addictions? Like, will it help you with- That's what they say... Candy Crush addiction? [laughs] I don't, it did not help me with my dopamine addiction. I mean, I was still very much addicted to my phone. But- Right... it helps with, it certainly helps people, I have heard, with alcohol and other substances, I, I think. Yeah. Um- But, like, where do you ha- get your fun then if you're not eating and not drinking?

1:32:10[laughs] It's a problem for people. Yeah, you, you learn, you live without fun. Yeah. Well, I mean- You know... but you're hot. The first week- So, I mean, it's, we, again, trade-offs Yeah. The first week that I tried Ozempic, uh, was like, I don't know, maybe eight months ago, I, it was the weirdest thing because it started working immediately for me. And, like, we had gone out to dinner that night for someone's birthday, and like, I love going out to eat. I love all the food. I love appetizers and, you know, I didn't eat anything.

1:32:35I could- I just didn't have any appetite. It was- Weird... the weirdest feeling in the whole world. And then for a, like a week it lasted, and I lost like five pounds in the first week, but then I just started getting really sick. Like, I was nauseous all the time- Mm... and my head was killing me. So weird. And, and then I was like, this is not worth, I can't, like, this isn't worth it for me. Um, but that feeling was so bizarre, and I was like, is that what other people feel like, where it's just like you don't need to consume every single thing in front of you? 'Cause my whole life- I, uh-...

1:33:05that's all I wanted. It- Yeah... here's what I don't understand, though. So I've sat in front of a, a, a plate of french fries and not wanted them and not been hungry and sometimes even been a little nauseous and still ate them. Yeah. So like, and we've all been there. So like, what, what hap- like, what do you even do with your hands? [laughs] Like, what are you [laughs] what are you doing? Start biting your nails. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, I, that, I know.

1:33:28But- But, like, what does that feel like? You guys, I, I, I, I have to g- I have to go soon. Yeah, no worries. Just letting you know. Oh, it's okay. We've had you almost an hour, so we're- I know. Yeah. What more do you have to ask me? [laughs] About the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and how you feel about it. [laughs] Ah. How do you s- No, I'm really happy that you're studying Torah. That's really good. I'm, I'm proud of that. I mean, I wish we didn't have to pause every 30 seconds to read this Rashi stuff, especially cons- all he's concerned with is the smut. [laughs] No, don't malign Rashi.

1:34:01He's v- y- e- he's integral to the studying of Torah. You, you need him. Is he? He's a Torah influencer. Yes. Yes, you need him. Yeah, how can I- Listen, I'll tell you why, because- Okay... and I'll tell it to you in 10 seconds, because Judaism is not, and the Torah is not just written. It's, we're also, we also have an, an oral tradition the same way indigenous communities, like, everyone applauds indigenous communities for having all these oral traditions. Well, Judaism- I don't applaud.

1:34:24I know, but people do. But Judaism also has an oral tradition, and you need both in order to understand anything in the Torah. So don't, don't discard Rashi and all the commentaries. It's all really important and part of it. I'm just saying it makes it re- it makes, it means it's, it's slow-going. Like, I am- Yeah, it is slow... this is an emergency. I am 41, and I've never read the, the Torah. Yeah. Like, this- Yeah... I should, can we, like, read the Torah, and then maybe in the second, the second go around, we can look at the Rashi?

1:34:49[laughs] Like, that's, that- But the problem with that is- Maybe I just read this guy... you could say it, but the problem is that that's the way Christians read it. Like, they just read the To- like, the Bible, and, like, we don't wanna be- And you don't wanna be like the Christians, do you, Ben? No, we don't do that. We, you know, you wanna, like, understand it, and you wanna- Christianity's been fairly successful. I mean, so have the Jews, but, you know. [laughs] What do the Mormons do? I'll do whatever the Mormons do.

1:35:07I, whatever the Mormons do, I'll do. [laughs] Yeah. Fine. Here's something to find out for you. We'll work it together. Um- Anyway... well, maybe I can say, like, "Look, let's read the Torah, and then, like, you give me your own commentary, Rabbi- Yeah... Rabbi Kaplan." Yeah. And if you have, is there something that you remember from Rashi that you feel we need to, you know, slide in there? That's a good idea. That's a good idea. But, like- You can call him that...

1:35:28let's, otherwise, it's gonna take us 40 years to read this thing. Yeah. That's, yeah, that's- It, it's true. But that's why we have a practice of doing every day. We read a piece every single day of Che- of the Torah and with the Rashi commentary every day. Mm-hmm. But you don't have to. You can read just the story. I don't understand anything, though. I need somebody to explain it to me. I need a Rashi. Yeah. I need my own personal Rashi. Yeah, yeah. Slash bod. Yeah. Anyway, well, keep it up. It's good. Ben Kawalar- And yeah, we should start- Thank you so much, Ben...

1:35:54some sort of pleasure. And thank you. We'll put, uh, links to all your Instagrams and all your socials- Oh, thank you... for those of you injecting yourself with things. Will you- Yeah. Okay. W- well, I'm, I am honored. It's been an, an absolute pleasure. And listen to Strange Bedfellows 'cause it's- Yes... really, really interesting and really fun. Look up, if you're interested in the podcast, the podcast is called Reflector. Yeah. I helped produce and was the lead reporter on three episodes of Reflector. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And those episodes are called Strange Bedfellows. Yes. So if you're looking for the podcast, look for Reflector. Yeah. Awesome.

1:36:25It's about the, the LGBT movement and kind of how it started and what it is now, and you don't have to be gay to listen, although you might become gay if you listen. Mm. Um, so but it's Pride Month, so- It could, it could also cure you of being gay if you listen... it could cure you of being gay. One, definitely one or the other. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, thank you, Ben. Thank you, Ben- Thank you, guys... Kaplan. I'm gonna- Bye... bye. [upbeat music]