Jews Are Not a Minority Group - With Batya Ungar-Sargon

0:00[upbeat music] Hi, welcome back to Ask a Jew, where a secular sinful Israeli speaks to her wholly religious friend, Yael here with Chaya La. And our friend, Batya Ungar-Sargon, returning to the show with her second book. The third... a very requested- Third book... sought after... No, but second book on this show. Oh, fine. Yeah. I- I've read three books- [laughs]... by since you- you've been here last, and you've written two. Um, people know you from News Nation, right? Your show Batya. But, like, you're everywhere. Fox, CNN, uh, Bill Maher.

0:40You have a new book, it's called The Jews and the Left, and we're gonna talk about it. Welcome back. Thank you so much for having me, you guys. Mm-hmm. I love this show- We're so excited... so much, and I just love that you're exploding and doing so well. And it just, every time I see it, I, it puts a big smile on my face. Aw. So thank you so much for having me. Thanks, Batya. We're- we're so glad we're catching you early in the book tour- I know... cycle before you're like, "I don't... If I have to talk about this book one more time." It is early, but also, um, I don't wanna, uh...

1:10Like, I'm happy for us just to hang out. Yeah. [laughs] Like, we don't have to do the whole book thing. No, Batya, let's hang. [laughs] Oh my God. Okay. Batya, how did you write another book? Come on. I can't... I- How... Did you have it in you this whole time? [laughs] Did you use ChatGPT? Is that what you did? [laughs] No, but I will tell you something funny. Um, I w- I asked ChatGPT to come up with, like, a, a promotional schedule- Mm... like, for the next two, like, the two weeks leading up to publication day.

1:34I was like, "Tell me what type of thing I should post to Twitter, Instagram, and Substack every single day to maximize reach- Mm... maximize pre-orders," blah, blah, blah. And then I put it into Claude. I was like, "Let me see the difference between the two." ChatGPT's was pretty good. Claude's, it's just so funny. So the whole book is about how, like, it's about why Jews became Democrats, and why the left turned on the Jews. Right. And also, this kind of, like, erased first 300 years of American Jewish life.

2:01Um, we really misunderstand w- what our history here is as Jews- Mm-hmm... and I'm sure we'll get into that. Um, but one of the things I did in the book was, obviously, I wanted to acknowledge the things that everybody knows, like the antisemitic stories of American history, because they are so few and far between. And so I was arguing that these are the exceptions that prove the rule. So of course, one of them is the Leo Frank, uh, lynching. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

2:22A Jewish guy, a white Jewish guy, um, who was accused of, um, um, molesting and then murdering a young girl, raping and, and molesting a young girl, which he was innocent of. It was very obvious at the time, but he was lynched by a lynch mob. Um, and I have that in there to, because in the months leading up to his conviction... We a- we think of this as a story of, like, A- American antisemitism. But in those months leading up to the conviction, the judge received hundreds of thousands of letters- Mm...

2:50from Christians across the country begging for clemency- Really?... and saying, "This is not who we are." Mm-hmm. "This is not who we are as a country. Do not allow this mob, this antisemitic mob to p- to pervert the justice here." It's a really beautiful story. I- I quote in the book letters written by little children- Wow... um, to Leo Frank himself in jail. Mm. And, you know, there was, like, a little boy who sent him his, like, he got 100 on a math test, and he mailed this to Leo Frank. Like, he became a cause célèbre- Mm...

3:19because so many non-Jewish Americans were so horrified at what it seemed like was about to take place, and indeed took place. So Claude decides that because Leo Frank's murder [laughs] is in my book, it must be that he was murdered by progressives. [laughs] And it writes this whole... I didn't ask it to write the things. I said, "What type of things should I post to Substack?" It writes a whole Substack post for me about how, like, the most important discovery of my book is [laughs] is that Leo Frank, did you know, was murdered by progressives? [laughs] Oh, no. Oh my God.

3:50Well, to be fair- That's hilarious... if Leo Frank's murderers were alive right now, they'd probably be going on Ezra Klein and, like, talking about anti-Zionism. [laughs] Oh my God. Wait, can I tell a petty Leo Frank story? [laughs] Sure. Wow. [laughs] That's a sentence that has never been uttered before. [laughs] When the Broadway show Parade was on, um, here with, um, uh, what's his name? The- the- the bad brother. Um- Who? What's his name? The bad brother? Ben Platt? Yeah. Not Joe- Ben Platt... not Ben Platt. Yeah. Yeah. The, um...

4:29It was, you know, it's a show about the story of Leo Frank, anti-Semitism, blah, blah, blah. People who don't know, Google it, look it up, read Batya's book. Um, but there were, like, four fucktards, excuse my language, who were protesting outside because it was, it created, led to the foundation of the ADL, and then there are right-wing people- Mm-hmm... who are like, "The ADL is bad, therefore the show is bad." You know, a few, like, psychos. The horror and outrage from the Broadway community, they were, like, sitting in their fainting couches- [laughs]... and, like, crying about the horrific antisemitism and how we need to protect our Jewish neighbors and be good allies. Oh, that's hysterical. And yet none of them said a word the last- Yeah... three years.

5:13Not only have they not said a word, they have, like, you know, full on, like, Globalize Intifada, the- the off-Broadway show. So we said we wouldn't get angry. That's hysterical. We're, like, five minutes in, I'm already angry. Let me ask you, Batya, did you... Today's... Well, I'm in New York, actually. Ah. And today's the Israel Day Parade, which unfortunately we're missing, but the, uh... I saw an article by Rabbi, what's her name, Jill Jacobs, I think, who wrote, um- Mm... that what we need is a Jewish Day Parade and not an Israel Day Parade.

5:40And, you know, she's, like, supporting this idea that, like- [laughs]... we shouldn't call it whatever, so that way it's gonna be more user-friendly. I mean, how do you respond to someone like that? Mm-hmm. How can you, how do we answer someone who says something like that? The answer to that is, um, so what would exactly feature in it? Yeah. Like bagels and lox- [laughs]... and Hillel? Yeah. And pickles. I, I think a whole float of pickles. Because the truth of the matter is, is that most American Jews are not religious. Mm-hmm.

6:06What defines their Jewish identity is a spiritual, psychological, historical, and cultural connection to other Jews. Mm-hmm. Like, that is their religion. Mm-hmm. This is something that is very much lost on a lot of people. Um, you know, you, you'll have, like, m- Muslim, um, uh, politicians who hate Israel saying, "We revere the Jewish faith." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Our mayor. "It's just Israel," right? But the Jewish faith, what does that mean? Like, most American Jews, and this started from the beginning. Mm-hmm.

6:37You know, Judaism, it's not a mono- It is a monotheistic religion, but it is characterized, as you know, Hillel, by the law. Mm-hmm. It is a heavy lift- Mm-hmm... as we Orthodox Jews know- [laughs]... day in and day out. And when, um, when Jews got here from Europe, they became intoxicated with the freedom of being an American, and one of the first things most of them did was slough off- Mm-hmm... the religion of their ancestors. But they did not stop identifying- Mm-hmm... as Jews. That was very precious to them. It just took on a very different form.

7:07And so to many Jews, the majority of American Jews, their connection to the people of Israel, the land of His- Israel, the history of Israel is, is very deep and fundamental to who they are and how they see themselves. Mm-hmm. To try to write that out, you would be left with 10% of American Jews marching- Mm-hmm... 5% of whom are, like, legit anti-Zionists, so they're beloved by the left- Mm-hmm... and held up by, you know, by, by, by all of the people who hate us because they get on their knees and fellate the people- Mm-hmm... who want the 95% of Jews who are Zionists to be excised from polite society. Mm-hmm.

7:42So I just think that's disgusting. And it's funny because Jill Jacobs, I, I think she's conservative. Mm-hmm. The conservative movement is, like, the oldest just in terms of age- Yeah... most disappearing movement. Like, it has zero staying power. Right. Mm-hmm. They have failed utterly to convince the next generation why they should continue to be religious. Mm-hmm. So it, it just seems to me to be, like, they're telling on themselves. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's... Yeah, I mean, there are so many, there are so many Jews today that, you know...

8:12I forget who said this, but somebody once said, "Every generation there are Jews that think if we can just stop doing this one thing- Yeah... everything will be okay," right? Oh, my God, totally. Can I just... I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to tell you something my grandfather used to tell me. So he was... He fled the Nazis on a Kindertransport- Yeah. Wow... when he was 17. Said goodbye to his family, never saw them again. 17 is a little old for a Kindertransport. He was, he was right at the, at the upper age. Yeah.

8:32And in fact, when he got to England, they, he was then rounded up and sent to Australia to a concentration camp by the British- Oh, my gosh. Wow... along with all of the other, a whole, thousands of other Jewish men because they decided that they were spies on behalf of the Nazis. Wow. Like, really horrible, gross stuff. Another reason to hate Australia. [laughs] So, um, his family was murdered almost immediately after that. Uh, but he told me, he always said this. He said, um, when the Nazi... He, he witnessed the Anschluss.

8:58He was there in Vienna when, when Hitler marched in, and he said, um, when the oppression started, like in the '30s, in the early '30s, all of the frum Jews, the religious Jews, would say to the secular Jews, "It's your fault. Why do you have to be sitting in the front rows at the opera?" Mm. "Why does it have... Why do you have to be at the, always showing off, always we're just as good as everyone else? Why can't you just do your thing and quietly and be..." And he says, "And the rel- and the, the secular Jews would say to the religious Jews, 'It's your fault. Why do you have to wear those funny clothes?

9:32Why do you have to wear the beard? Why do you have to wear that? Why can't you just assimilate and act like everybody else?'" And then my grandfather always said, "And the day the Nazis marched in, it didn't make a lick of difference." Mm-hmm. "They killed them all." Oh, my God. It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. And we see- We say the same today. I feel like we're having that exact- Yeah... same conversation right now. It's, it's- Awfully.

9:53Uh, you know, you k- you kind of write in your book, if, if I understand this correctly, and this is something I say too, and I, I, I'd like to be convinced otherwise, that, uh, American Jews, if they just denounce everybody, all the other Jews, they can get away with... Th- they'll be okay, right? They can be in politics. They'll be beyond okay. They can be in academia. They'll be elevated. They'll become the poster child. Yeah. Like, there's nothing they love more than a Brad Lander- Mm-hmm... you know, or an Ilana Glazer. Mm-hmm.

10:19Like, somebody who's willing to say like, "We're the good Jews 'cause we're not Zionists." Yeah. And Brad Lander's an interesting, um, is an interesting thing to bring up because, A, I told you not to bring him up- [laughs]... 'cause I'll get mad. But also I do wanna talk about this because he seems to have made, and for people who don't know, Brad Lander is nobody. He's a sh- stupid politician in New York. Mm-hmm. Um, but he might be, uh, he, you know, he's, he's running for Congress right now and he, he might win. But he kind of was a Zionist, and then he- Yeah... has m- made this kind of political choice- Yeah...

10:50to be like, "You know what? Actually, I, you know, I'm a pickles and bagels Jew." Mm. Right. Um, do you think that's gonna work out for him? Um, uh, definitely in some areas, yes. Like, in some zip codes, in s- amongst some people, yeah. I mean, th- that's, I think, the lesson that people would draw from the Mamdani victory. Um, it just, like, it, it, it's, it's funny how progressives have decided, like, they have nothing else to offer in terms of, like, actually improving the lives of, like, everyday Americans, and so they're gonna...

11:23Like, this is their new thing. This is their new, like, vanity moral. It's their new Like, I've always said in my, my first two books that wokeness was a smokescreen for the class divide. Mm-hmm. The fact that the left- Yes... had ceased to offer working class people- 100%... access to the American dream. So you'll have, like, there's a guy running for Congress for Nancy Pelosi's seat in San Francisco who's just obsessed with Israel. Yeah. And it's like, wh- how many San Franciscans do you think, like, that is the thing that they are gonna show up and vote for? But what it does is it gives them an excuse.

11:51'Cause then, like, you know, when they're, when they're inevitably beaten, they can say, like, "Oh, APAC- Mm. Mm... you know, funded our opposition," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, when, like, the truth is, like, most Americans are just not that invested in foreign policy, and the ones that are tend to be on the right. And most Americans continue to be pretty pro-Israel. I mean, right now the polling shows that they're more sympathetic to the Palestinians, but honestly, the Palestinians are [laughs] like more, more worthy of sympathy.

12:16They're in a pathetic position. Right. Like, their leadership sucks. They, there's nobody who's, like, actually cares about them. Yeah. It's sad. I sympathize with them too, and Israel is very strong, and that's a good thing. Like, I don't know that sympathy is a word... I, I still think that most Americans, like, push comes to shove, and certainly the majority of Republicans, Republicans are more pro-Israel today than they were before- Wow... October 7th. Really? Um, yeah, yeah. Wow.

12:38Yeah. I don't know, like, I don't know what to make of all this because, you know, a- and there's something you say that I, you know, y- you say that the Republicans or the right wing's problem with Israel is the foreign aid. Mm-hmm. It, like, really, Batya? Do we really think that's it? Like that it will ef- ends there? I know it is. I mean, I'm not saying there's zero anti-Semites on the right, but for example, Charlie Kirk, in the last student action summit he was alive for- And they-...

13:07before he was assassinated, they did a poll and they asked- Mm... these are young leaders in the- Mm... conservative movement, "Are you pro-Israel or not? Or are you anti-Israel?" And 75% of them said they were pro-Israel. Wow. But isn't that always touched with a, with a... Like, I never see, and, and granted, you know, I'm looking at podcast world and social media, which is not reflective, I know, but to me that always comes with, and Jewish power and Jewish influence and the ADL- I think it's not...

13:32and APAC. I think it's the opposite. I really do. But- 'Cause they're not saying that about Egypt... they're saying it about everything. I mean, these people do not want foreign aid going to Ukraine. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They don't want foreign aid going anywhere. That's true. It's just that it's, you know, it, yeah, I, and I kind of agree with them. I mean, I think Israel's paid a very heavy price for the foreign aid we give them. I don't think it's been good for Israel. I think they've sacrificed a huge amount of, like, building up their own military industrial complex.

13:55It's been good for us because we've gotten a lot of, uh, intelligence sharing and, um, weapons improvement, and obviously it's great for Lockheed, you know? [laughs] Right. [laughs] They get to see, like, a test run of their weapons. Like, you can't buy that kind of exposure. But I, I don't think it's good for, for us as Americans, and I don't think it's good for, for Israel. So at, I, and I do think that is where mo- Like, the young people on the right who h- who are ambivalent about Israel right now, they feel like, "I can't buy a home. Why are we giving this money away?" Mm.

14:21And they feel like Israel's sort of dragging us down. Okay, but, but the- That's my advancement... I can't buy a home thing, like I understand the why are we giving money to Israel, why are we giving money to Ukraine, but the I can't buy a home thing, that's starting to get a little shady territory to me because that's like, "Okay, the reason I'm being put down is because of the powerful people who are making my money." But, you know, they were saying this about Ukraine. Mm. I mean, they were saying this about, they, they just, they, do you think they don't say this about illegal immigrants? They do. Mm-hmm.

14:50Like, they really, really, really want every illegal deported. I'm with them on that. And they say that a lot of it is, like, they're, every, every one of the 20 million illegals is living in a home. Mm-hmm. Like, what do you think is gonna happen to home prices if all of those properties become em- They say this about everything. Mm-hmm. So that's, it's a huge difference. So when you have people who are anti-Israel on the left, they think Israel doesn't have a right to exist because- Yeah... they don't believe in nationalism and they hate the Jews. Mm.

15:14On the right, when they're anti-Israel, they're just anti foreign aid. Like, obviously, like, think about it. Think about, like, your average, like, Christian young person. Right. Mm-hmm. I think Nick Fuentes said this. If asked, would you rather the Christian holy sites in Israel, in the Middle East, be under the care of the Jews or the cr- or the Muslims? Like, it's an absolute no-brainer. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. It's like the answer is the Jews. Like, absolute no-brainer. They have no problem with nationalism. They thought Israel was right in the war, and they wanted Israel to win. Like, that's, I mean, it's like a no-brainer.

15:44But they could still have a lot of ambivalence towards foreign aid, towards a foreign country. If they don't like the war in Iran, that w- could brush off without it being about, like, the Jews being sneaky and needing to have less political power. Batya, do you- Batya- I don't know. I, I, I still see a lot of that. I hope you're right and I'm wrong. Batya, do you still consider yourself of the left? How do you feel? [laughs] I mean, I'm, I'm curious. That's a great question.

16:06Um, I'm getting, like, destroyed on social media right now because I think Trump should be giving out stimmy checks to get people through the war in Iran. Right. Yeah. So I think I am. Like I, that, I think that's pretty much, like, the definition of it, but I think Trump's a leftist. Like, I think Trump and I are both, like, FDR Democrats. [laughs] And it's funny 'cause a, a guy in shul said to me this week, and it was so smart, he said, "I'm still a Democrat, I just don't vote for them anymore." Right, right. [laughs] That's great.

16:28That is such a Jewish thing to say. I know, right? Right? That's great. That is beautiful. I know, right? That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean- I don't know that I feel that way anymore. Like, I feel very, very, very protective of Donald Trump. Like, I've become very, like, I think he's, I think what he's trying to do to America, like reverse our decline, is, like, an astonishing thing. I think he's the most influential president certainly in my lifetime, possibly in, you know, since, since Lincoln, but since FDR. But, um, like, so I'm, I'm very, very f- I feel- Yeah...

17:00like very protective of his agenda, but I don't, like, I do not feel that way about JD Vance- Right, right... I can tell you. [laughs] You know? There's a lot of people- Yeah... on the right coming up who are like- Yeah. He seems mean to me. Who? He seems like he's a mean guy. JD Vance? I don't wanna... Actually, maybe I should cut this out 'cause I am applying for naturalization soon. [laughs] But my dream, my dream is to become an American citizen so I can vote for Marco Rubio. Yeah. Like- Mm... that would just be so amazing. I don't think JD Vance seems mean.

17:28To me, he seems like he has the kind of like, um, insecurity that a lot of kids who grow up in, like, broken homes and suffer from domestic violence have. Like, just like a, um, a- He, he will never have the kind of self-confidence that he's expected to project as a man on the right. Mm-hmm. And so that gap, I think, is where people kind of feel a little disingenuousness. Do you think that's because the way he grew up- Yeah... or because he was a fat kid? [laughs] 'Cause [laughs] no, 'cause I think that's a big part of it too.

17:56I, I mean, like, he, he, he wrote a book, and it was turned into a Netflix- Beautiful book... movie, in which his mom was beating him up. Yeah. Like, I, to me, like, that is, there's something about that that's, like, we have not discussed as a nation that, like- [laughs]... needs to be talked about. [laughs] But, but you know what else? I think it might be the fat kid thing. But you know what else, though? JD Vance reminds me of a lot of people I know, who are, like, the sons of a big philanthropist, right?

18:19And that philanthropist was, like, super successful in business, built up a very, you know, big company and w- and, you know, maybe came from nothing. And then the son, who was kind of, like, born into it and is the second in command, is never quite the dad. And I feel like anyone who's gonna be Donald Trump's- Mm... number two is actually going to suffer- Mm... with that image. Because Donald Trump is a unique person. There's never gonna be another Donald Trump. Even if you have the same policy ideas or you believe in the same things, his personality is not...

18:51You, you can't replicate it, right? You can- no one can replicate Donald Trump, even his own children, certainly not a vice president. And so he's always gonna have that shadow over him, and I wonder if becoming his vice president- Mm... maybe dimmed him a little bit. And so it's gonna be someone else from a different part of the Republican Party who will actually sweep in and be able to win. Because everybody's gonna always judge JD Vance next to Donald Trump, and it's imp- it's just impossible. It's an impossible position. And I think also, like, there's a certain machismo that, um- Yeah... is now something that's sought after by people looking for leaders on the right. And when he didn't defend his wife- Yeah... from Nick Fuentes- Mm-hmm. Mm... I think a lot of women were kind of, like... I don't know. Yeah.

19:39I mean, I, uh, I don't know, but I, if other women experienced that the way that I did, that- [laughs] Yeah, it was weird. [laughs] It was weird, right? Yeah. Yeah. You, Batya, you, you talk to, like... You're probably one of the, the few guests that we've had or few people in our life that talk to a lot of, like, normies, right? Like, you talk, you go, you travel around the country. You talk to a lot of, like- Yeah... Republicans, a lot of people who are just, like, you know, not coastal elites like us. [laughs] Like, what are you hearing about, about Trump?

20:08Because all we hear when we see in the, you know, we open the news, like, Trump's, uh, low approval rating. Yeah. Everybody hates Trump. Nobody believes in him. Like, what are you getting? But then sometimes you see the other thing happen, too, which is, like, Trump is, is the Messiah and the God, and, like, everything he does is amazing. I, I mean, people are broke. Mm. And that, it's bad. Really? Like, it is bad. And the r- the Republicans don't understand that that's, like, a really big problem. Mm. Um, like, they- Yeah...

20:34like, when he first did the Iran thing, all of the influencers were like, "This is gonna be the end of him." And it was like, no. The base was like, "This is important." You know, they remember the Iran hostage crisis. Like, they feel like this is long overdue. Like, they, they, they believe in the mission. But, um, now, like, two months in, people are broke. They can't afford anything, and this is something that coastal elites just don't understand.

20:58Like, people are having to choose between, like, filling up the car with gas and paying for the after-school activities that they needed the gas- Mm... for to get their kids there. Like, it's, it's sad. Mm-hmm. And it's the exact opposite of what they promised him. So in Trump's mind, the Iran thing is gonna end really quickly, and then gas prices are gonna plummet, and the producer price index is gonna plummet. I just don't think it comes down as fast as it goes up, and I think that if they don't f- find a way to make people feel seen and heard, it's gonna be bad in November.

21:26And if they do find a way to do that, it's not gonna be bad. Like, they're... I don't believe that the Democrats' chances are so great. Like, the Democrats are not offering anything better. Right. They're not offering anything at all. Yeah. But, like, Trump is not good at conveying compassion and understanding, and- Mm-hmm... I think it's starting to... Like, people are skipping meals. And, and when you say this, like, people who are in the elites don't believe it. Yeah. Like, they don't believe it, but it's true. Batya, let me ask you about that.

21:51And they're blaming the war in Iran, or are they blaming Trump? Well, I mean, it is the war in Iran. I say that as someone who s- who supports it. Right. But it is. No. I, it's... But, you know, producer price index at 6% is, that's terrible. Mm. That's just, it's terrible. And so, and I, I think this kind of... That's why I think stimmy checks are the way to go, because, like, t- Trump needs the time to finish the deal. Otherwise, he's gonna walk away with something that's even worse than the JCPOA, which would be horrible.

22:15And now everybody's gonna blame the Jews. That's a problem. I, you know, I have, like, a, a, like, a s- nightmare scenario in my head right now, where things completely go sour with Iran. We get a bad deal, whatever, and then Trump kinda comes in and be like, "Well, Netan- you know, Netanyahu told me to do this." He would never, he would never do that. Mm. He's so, like... He's so grossed out by the insinuation that, like, somebody else is pulling the- Yeah, the levers... no matter what happens, Trump is gonna say it was a massive victory for Donald Trump. Right. [laughs] This is true.

22:45Like, he will never blame somebody else for it, 'cause he'll never acknowledge that he's done well. That means you have to admit failure, yeah. Batya, I wanna ask you about the economic reality for people. 'Cause, you know, I work with college students, and some of them are listening, so sorry, guys, but I'm throwing you under the bus here. Um, it, it, 10- Stop doing DoorDash... no, but 10 years ago- Make a sandwich... 10 years ago, I... 'Cause people contact me all the time and say, "I need someone to come and, you know, do something in my ba- basement. Uh, could you send me a student, and I'll pay them?"

23:11Or, "I need babysitting," or whatever. And I would post it, and I would have five students say, "I'm available. I'm available." I could post jobs now, I get zero responses. They... I, I don't see an urgency or a hunger or anything from my students, who, by the way, I work at a state university that is not... My students are, with all the love in my heart for them, they are not economically g- uh, high earners, these, these families and the students. Right.

23:38Uh- But I think something fundamentally changed in, I, I'm starting to think, for Americans, in a way, where they're not running to do jobs that will earn them cash on the side or whatever. What, what do you think, what are you seeing, and what do you think that is? Well, my initial reaction is, like, what did we need the money for? Like, I wor- I worked three jobs in college. Right. What did I need the money for? Like, I, I, I needed it to go out, like, 'cause I wanted- Yeah... to like, my... You know, like I wasn't gonna ask my dad for money to go drinking. Right. Like [laughs] Right, right.

24:07I did wanna go out drinking and partying and, you know, and hanging out with friends, and like, you know. Clothes. So I- Yeah... and I think that they maybe are not going out as much. Mm-hmm. And when you don't go out- Right... you don't need clothes, and you don't need makeup, you don't need shoes. Like, you know, not that I had money for any of that stuff, but, like, they, it, they're not going out. They're not drinking. They're, they're just- Mm... staying home, you know, streaming Netflix and TV shows and movies about, you know, high school kids. Yeah. And it's like, I think it's kinda depressing.

24:33Like, there is kind of this risk aversion, um, yeah, it's kinda depressing. Yeah, and I, I think also, like, a lot of things are super cheap. I mean, clothing, like most of my students are shopping on- Yeah... very cheap websites. Temu. Yeah, Temu and, and- Yeah, yeah. Or second-hand... yeah. Yeah. And I think things are cheap. Yeah. And, and most of them are not, very few are traveling, and I, I just, I don't know. I, I worry that we're not, like, it's not even about the money at this point right now.

25:01Like, I'm wor- I'm very worried about the economy, but I'm also really worried [laughs] about, like, Americans in general, and what we're- Mm... kind of who we've become and/or what we're becoming. And I don't know what to think about that 'cause I just don't see a hunger, I don't see this urgency to, like, be... I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm sure there are some, but not, not at the level that I feel like when we were growing up in the '90s and the early 2000s that we were seeing. So, and I think COVID maybe had- Yeah...

25:28something to do with it, and the reality we're living in. Yeah. I just, I worry about that. I d- Yeah. And I'm sure it's all over. And they'll probably- Yeah... they'll probably tell you, and I don't necessarily agree with this, but they'll probably tell you, "Well, it's not worth it 'cause I'm not gonna be able to buy a house anyway- Yeah... or I'm not gonna be able to afford anything anyway." Um, I mean, that's true. They won't be able to afford a house- Right... and that sucks. Right. Um, I had Adam Mochler on my show the other day. Mm-hmm.

25:52Do you guys know who that is, from MeToo? Mm-hmm. He's very cute. He's like, um- Oh, Adam Mochler, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's the guy who went at it with our, with our friend Scott Jennings on, uh- Yes... on CNN. Yes. Yeah. Um, he's very pro-Israel, by the way. Oh, really? He is? Um, yeah. Oh. Randomly. I think so, yeah. I think he s- he said that once when we were- Oh, good... um, doing... He said, "Yeah, I'm p- pro-Israel," which is- That's nice... adorable and weird- [laughs]... for a CEO. Okay, hopefully he didn't do one of those, "I believe Israel has a right to exist," but...

26:18[laughs] I don't even remember what we were talking about, but, um, um, so he was tell- I was asking him about, like, dating and, like, w- why there's this sort of dating slump. Mm-hmm. Like, young people, and I was positing that it was 'cause of MeToo, like, men just don't feel like they can do anything- Mm-hmm... that would signal interest anymore except in this, like, very cringe way that's very off-putting- Mm-hmm... to women. So it's like you pu- put them in this position- Mm...

26:41where on the one hand, like, you demand, like, that they kind of hesitantly ask for consent again and again and again at every stage, while also, and, like, women don't want that, though. Like, they wanna be approached. They want, like, a certain level of masculinity, and so there's this, like, bind. And he was saying, no, he thinks, like what you just said, that it's about COVID, and that, like, in COVID- Mm... there was just, like, this kind of plummeting of socialization. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And that a lot of these kids just don't understand, you know, they c- they have no tolerance for rejection. Mm-hmm.

27:10Um, they, they don't really get, like, that that's a human part of, like, you know, the game and, and how to just relate to each other. Yeah. And it's funny because, like, you know, i- i- I do think there is maybe a backlash coming to all of this, like, online stuff because people just wanna be around other people, like, having human moments. Um, I, there's this thing happening where, like, I, I've seen a number of friends post about this, where suddenly, like, Friends is a very popular show again. Mm-hmm. Like, people are streaming it.

27:36Oh, yeah, Friends has been huge for a long time. Yeah, like, they'll stream, a- and it's just, like, it's, it's '90s nostalgia. Yeah. But I think it's also just, like, they didn't have cell phones. They, like, just hung out. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. And, like- But can I tell a funny story- That's true. Yeah... just about dating and... [laughs] Okay, so th- this is, like, such a Gen X mil- or la- like, we're, we're all same generation, like, like, yeah, old Millennials/Gen X, right? So I was driving with some, uh, girlfriends of mine. We're all around the same age.

28:06Um, and we had a long, like, road trip, and one of them was telling a story about how she's dating a guy right now, but she doesn't know if she likes him, and he's really nice and sweet, and, like, he seems like he would make a great husband, but she's not really attracted to him, and she doesn't know, like... A- and one of the, one of our friends was like, "Why don't you," and just, like, very earnestly, she's like, "Well, why don't you just have sex with him and see how you feel?" Yeah.

28:28And we all just laughed 'cause we're like, that is exactly what, like, people our age say to each other, right? Right. Like, and I don't know if that's true or not, and, like, I don't know if that's the right way to go about this, but we're like, can you imagine telling that to somebody who's 30? [laughs] Like, why don't you just, like- Yeah... hook up with this person and see how you feel? Like, I feel like they have such a different- Oh, would they not? Oh, yeah, they have, like, a barrier of, yeah...

28:49such a different, like, relationship. Yeah. Like, there's- Yeah... it's in terms of being risk-averse, you know? Behaile, this must make you feel so good about, like, the From community- [laughs]... because, like, so many of these pro- like, I notice this in my community, like the kids, because they have to go 27 hours every week- Yeah... without the phone, like, they have to play outside. Yeah, yeah. They have to go to the park. Like, they have to come and knock on their friend's door and be like, "We're going to play basketball. Are you coming?" And there's no phones 'cause it's Shabbat- Mm-hmm...

29:18and people are hanging out, and it's like, it is this beautiful, nostalgic, like, it does make me, I f- and I, it makes me feel sad- Yeah... because I'm like, how do I get other people to have access to this? [laughs] And then, of course, Charlie Kirk wrote a whole book about it. I know. And then the launch was marred by, like, all of this, you know, well, obviously he was murdered, but also by all of this, like, antisemitism- Right... around the idea of it, but, like, Shabbat- It is-...

29:39kid is the right... I, I can't tell you. I have four sons. [laughs] And, I mean, I see from one minute to the next, right? From last night, I'm in New York right now, so with my, I was, three of my sons live here. From 9:07 PM last night, where we were still sitting around- [laughs]... after many, many hours, right? To 9:09 PM, when Shabbat was over and everyone was on their phone. You just see an, a, in, in person, live in front of your face- Totally... how the air shifts, the energy shifts, everything shifts. Totally. You experience a real tangible experience of, like, an energy shift.

30:13And I, I can't express to people enough how m- how meaningful Shabbat has become to me in a way that, and I've been keeping Shabbat all of my 40, almost 46 years. I've never missed a Shabbat in my life, right? And the, now more than ever, I, I can't, I wish people would adopt it, and I, I said at our graduation for my Hillel students, you know, I used to always give this deep message about Jewish community and whatever, and Torah, and never veer from it or whatever, and all I said this year to the graduates of, of our Hillel, I said What, uh, if you only do one thing, and you only remember me for one thing for the rest of your life, pick a Shabbat practice and do it.

30:52I don't care what- Mm... but make Shabbat something in your life. Pick one thing. Put away your phone on Friday night. This is so beautiful. Put away... I don't care. Like, y- Saturday, go do whatever you want, but Fr- m- take, take a few hours and make a Shabbat practice. It's gonna save us. I mean, we are, we're eating ourselves to death in a way. Mm-hmm. And I, I'm so... I look around, I, I... It makes me panic, and you're right. Even, like, the old-fashioned way of dating, I'm starting to... Like, I went through the frum system of, like- Mm... matchmaker, being set up- Mm-hmm...

31:18dating six times, getting engaged. Mm-hmm. I, I've, r- I, I think that a lot of my life I was, like, em- embarrassed, you know, em- about it. I was, like, ashamed kind of that I had that experience 'cause it's so shtetl-like, and I wasn't the cool, you know, whatever. [laughs] I, I couldn't be prouder now. Like, I wish w- my students who aren't religious- Oh, my... are begging me to do it for them. They're like, "Please, can you, can you be a matchmaker for us? Please, can you help us?

31:44Please, can you set me up with someone?" We're, we're, uh, we're going backwards, and I'm, I'm just like, I, I, I don't know how we get the word out, but there are answers to these problems. I, y- everyone's very busy writing books and, and talking about things with... about how the pr- what the problem is. We have answers. And yeah, they're not maybe, like, flashy, and maybe they're kind of old-fashioned, but they work, and we should try to adopt them as much as possible. But I don't know.

32:09It's, it's tough out there for young [laughs] people. It really is, and old people. Yeah, and it's a muscle you need to flex, right? Yeah. Like, you need to be... It's hard to be around a lot of people if you're not used to it, and, like, you need to keep, keep doing that. Yeah. I, I happen to have two weekends in a row now where I was in with different groups, and it w- it was so lovely. It was just so lovely to, like, hang out in a house with a bunch of people. Yeah.

32:31Uh, some who I knew well, some I didn't know well, and, like, play Monopoly- Yeah... or go for bike rides or whatever. But, but it's also, like, it, it's hard. It is. Like, you need to get used to that. Yeah, yeah. So Batya, I wanna ask you about the book a little bit, but I wanna... I, I just took a graduate class a couple years ago about Judaism in America, the history of Judaism, which is different than the history of Jews in America, and I thought it was really interesting because- Mm...

32:54h- the professor in his book tried to draw a line about early Jews in this country, and I'm talking about, like, the first synagogues that opened in the South- Mm-hmm... that were, like, Reform, you know, but, like, were trying to be- Mm... more traditional than what we would say today, and how, how much it mattered to them that the Chris- their Christian neighbors respected them and admired them. And so there was this cute little anecdote that I read, um, in a shul newsletter, and this is, like, 200 years ago, and the shul newsletter's basically saying, like, you know, there's a culture around young people in the shul, young men, not just teenagers, but, like, even young married men walking out during parts of davening to, like, schmooze outside and, you know, have a kiddush club.

33:38It's a very normal thing in Orthodox shuls even today, where they skip part of the services to go socialize outside, right? And the, the rabbi and the board or whatever were very upset, and the reason they were upset was not because they're missing Torah reading or the Haftarah. They were upset because, "What are our Christian neighbors thinking when they walk by the synagogue, and they see-" Yeah, uh... "these groups of young Jews schmoozing on the sidewalk? It's embarrassing."

34:06[laughs] Like, "Who do we, who do, what do they think of us," right? And you know, my professor didn't spend time on that. I was so taken by that story 'cause it, it really made me think about, like, what do secu- I, I don't wanna say secular Jews, but non-Orthodox Jews think- Mm-hmm... about what their neighbors think of them. I couldn't care less. Like, my neighbors think we're absolutely insane, right? Like, I know they think that, and I'm f- I'm, like, fine with it. [laughs] Like, they know we're insane.

34:33But it was so interesting, so I'm curious if you came a- across a lot of that kind of sentiment in your research about early Jewish Americans. Um, I came across a lot of sort of almost the opposite, which was how cherished and beloved the Jews were in America- Mm... across the South, in the North, wherever they were, and a lot of it had to do with the fact that the stereotypes that had dogged them in Europe in, like, homicidal ways- Right... were all things that were really respected and admired here. Yeah. So you had people writing letters- Yeah... being like, "Man, these Jews, they make two pennies out of one."

35:14[laughs] "How do we get more of them," you know? [laughs] Like, they're like- Right. "Man- I'll take it... these Jews, like, they're in, they're, they're in the f- the courts, you know, like, suing officials for insulting them every day. How do we get more?" Right, right. You know, like, "Th- this is great. This is what it means to be an American," like... So all of the things they were associated with, like, were seen as big blessings. You know, there would be, like, towns in the South where there would be editorials being like, "We don't have enough Jews, and the economy's plummeting. Like, get more Jews."

35:38[laughs] "We're starting to look like Ireland, guys." [laughs] Like [laughs] all of it's quoted in the book, but it, it's just amazing, and one of the most amazing things that I discovered, um, like a completely forgotten, hidden part of American history, was that, like, we're used to hearing about the Klan and them targeting Jews, firebombing synagogues and so forth, which of course they did, but on at least three occasions that I found, probably more, um, when the Klan attacked the Jews and firebombed the synagogue, the Christians- Mm...

36:07were so horrified- Mm... by the fact that their Jewish neighbors had been targeted that they turned on the Klan. Wow. And it was, the, that, the, a, a synagogue firebombing was the first time members of the Klan were found guilty for lynching. Wow. Because they had lynched two Jews and a Black guy, and it was right, it was six weeks after a synagogue bombing, and it turned the jury. I mean, the whole community came out to march in support of the Jews.

36:33We just never hear the, that- Mm-hmm... side of things, but this country has been utterly exceptional to Jews from the moment the first Jew stepped foot on American soil. I write in the book that it was like the soil itself just rejected Jew hate. Right. So Peter Stuyvesant- Mm-hmm... who was in charge of New Amsterdam, tried to kick them out. Right. And it was just, it, it was impossible. Like, every time he tried to oppress them, they were, the J- the Jews just knew that they could say no, and they did, and they flourished. Mm-hmm.

36:59And so they became, they were seen in this early history as, not as, you know, an immigrant community or a, an oppressed minority. They were seen by the Founding Fathers as founding partners- Mm-hmm... in the creation of this nation. Mm. And we've just totally erased that whole history. To us, most of us, Jewish history starts in 1900- Mm-hmm... with the arrival of a million Russians. Right. And, and, uh, that's not when it started. Yeah. That's when they became Democrats. Right. [laughs] But that is not when Jewish American history started. Mm-hmm.

37:26So yeah, they were very sen- I think they wanted to have good relations with their Christian neighbors, but they were truly beloved- Mm... and seen as, uh, like a fundamental, inextricable part of America. H- how do you feel about the whole debate now, I don't know how much of a debate it is, but you know, you kind of hear it here and there on the, you know, on the op-ed pages, of should we even be... Should the Jewish community even be putting our time and effort and resources into fighting antisemitism? Um, I think probably w- w- first of all, the organizations doing it are just doing a terrible job.

37:59I think the ADL is a, just an absolute disaster. Because basically what the ADL's doing is, like, doubling down on the worldview that got us into this mess in the first place. Like, the ADL's position is, like, "Oh my God, after October 7th, how, I can't believe they put us into the category of oppressors." Mm-hmm. "We are oppressed." Mm-hmm. [laughs] Yeah. Like, it's like- Yeah... the exact wrong thing to do. So I think a lot of the, like, fighting antisemitism is, is, is a mess. I personally think that a lot of the money that went into Israel should've gone into Jewish education.

38:26I've never really met an Orthodox Jew who didn't love Israel. Mm-hmm. And the fact that to be Orthodox is so prohibitively expensive- Mm... is just an absolute shanda. Mm. And so to me, like, if all that money was going into teaching Jews how to be religious and how to be Jewish and, like, what it meant, like, I think we'd be in a much better place. I do think, like, m- m- I think the discourse around antisemitism is really, like, messed up. Mm-hmm. Jews are not unsafe in America. Yeah. Um, w- we're getting the white treatment- Mm...

38:53in a very concentrated, specific way, and we should be proud to stand with white Americans, because they've always had our back. Like, we should be proud to stand with the working class that's very pro-Israel. Mm-hmm. We shouldn't be like, "How dare you treat us the way you treat Trump voters?" Yeah. Like, those are the people [laughs] who- Yeah... are gonna rescue you, and you're throwing your lot in and begging for acceptance from the people who hate you, and turning your back on and smearing the people who have always loved you.

39:19Like, I find that to be really appalling. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of built-in contradiction in how we view antisemitism, I think, because on one hand, you know, I agree with you. We're not unsafe. You know, people ask me, sometimes my, you know, um, during, uh, October 7th, before the hostages started, peop- you know, I was, I always wore a yellow hostage pin. And you know, sometimes Israelis would be like, "Oh, are you afraid to wear it?" I'm like, "No. No, I'm not. I'm in America. I'm in New York," you know? Right.

39:45Um, but, but then we also do, uh, uh, and I'm speaking for myself personally, I want everybody to know how much antisemitism there is, because I feel like nobody gives a shit. Mm-hmm. So nobody gives a shit that, like, twice a week in New York there's some incident here, and like, it's almost become normalized in a way. So on one hand, we wanna, like, you know, we're strong, we're safe, we can take care of ourselves. On the other hand, uh, is anybody else seeing what we're seeing, or are we just going crazy?

40:13You mean, like, graffiti and stuff like that? Uh, graffiti, attacks, attacks on, you know- But-... spitting... it- Uh, whatever, like, uh, attacks on students It's, it's interesting. It's not necessarily people are getting slaughtered, even though that happens, and we know that. I, I could tell you just- But it's just the complete lack of respect for your fellow Americans. But I could tell you a... It's so funny. I, this personal, I'll make it very personal anecdotes. We were walking home from shawl. Uh, last week was, two weeks ago or whatever, was a holiday called Shavuot.

40:41We were walking home late at night from synagogue and a car drove by. This is in Long Beach. A car drove by and screamed out, "You F-ing Jews," or, or s- something F-ing Jews. I couldn't hear the first word. And I was with- Mm... my kids and my husband and my father. And you know, we were like, "What?" You know, we got all a- annoyed, and then we, like, continued walking. Like, okay, I mean, so, so some four idiots in a car screamed at us. Then- But how often does that need to happen? It happens a lot. Yeah. Okay? I'm saying it happens a lot. It happened to us two weeks ago.

41:13Then two weeks l- this week, my sister was in Trader Joe's, near my house, which I go to four, four to five times a week, and she was walking. [laughs] And a guy walked by her and said to her, "Shalom," or something. And my sister goes, "Oh," or, or, and she, like, sh- he was very good-looking she told me. And she, [laughs] she said to him- [laughs] So she said to him, "Oh, hi. Are you Jewish?" 'Cause we know everyone in, you know, we know a- almost everyone. Yeah. And he, she didn't recognize him. So she said, "Oh, are you Jewish?" And he said, "No, but I love you guys. I support you. I support Israel.

41:48I, I'm with you." Aw. He said, "If you ever need anything-" Got a number? And Goldie was so upset that she didn't get his number. No, she didn't get it. But, but she walked away, and she was like, so, she was like so shaken up by the fact that we never tell those stories, right? We only tell the stories of the first- Yeah... thing that happened to us, which was the car screaming at us. But you know, we, it's easier, and we live in a world where everyone's fucked up. So yeah, of course the story with the guy screaming at us has more- Yeah...

42:14you know, sound better. To me, it's more like... A- and I've told this story a mi- a million times, and I'll tell it again, because I think it's, it's so important. When the head of the NYPD Hate Crimes unit once told me, "You know, you'll never see KKK marching down the streets of New York City, because they know they're gonna get their asses kicked." Mm. And meanwhile, beginning on October 8th here, we see all these people in keffiyehs with their little Hamas bands that they bought on Etsy or something, marching down the street. And like, I don't blame them.

42:48I, like, at least they're telling me who they are. Mm. I kind of, what, what drives me crazy is what appears to be, like, a collective shrug from everybody else, including many Jewish politicians, including people like- Well, I, I shrug at that Mm. I do. Like, people marching, people... We have freedom of speech. That's like- But that doesn't bother you? I'm not saying it shouldn't be illegal. It does not bother me. Mm. It, it bothers me that the norms have gotten to the place where- I mean, Nazis-... 25 years after 9/11... marched and killed me in, you know, in- Yeah, and that wasn't cool... in New York, Holocaust survivors.

43:17See, you're not American, so you don't get it. [laughs] No, it was legal. That, that is, that is a fundamental- And legal is fine... part of, of American history, because- Well, dudes... that, like, the fact that we have a First Amendment and the fact that America has been so good to the Jews are two sides of the same coin, so we have to protect that First Amendment. No, but I think we're talking about two different things. I completely support their right to do that What I don't support is the fact that people were disgusted by Skokie.

43:42Skokie people that marched through didn't have millions and millions of YouTube followers. They weren't running for Congress in Maine. They weren't, um, you know, there weren't Jews in Skokie writing op-eds for The New York Times about how amazing the, the, you know, the, the N- Neo-Nazis are. I feel like we're in a different place right now. Well, somebody wrote a book about that. It's called The Jews on the Left. [laughs] Tell us about it. And how we got there. [laughs] I told you we wouldn't talk about the book.

44:11[laughs] Yeah, but, but it is, you know, it is, there, there is, I think, a, a problem with, with norms, right? There is a problem with kind of what's become acceptable, and I hate doing the, "If it would've happened to any other minority group," but we all know that if it would happen to any other minority group, if the KKK was marching in your- But you know what? Yael, we're not a minority group in America. That's the whole point of my book- Mm-hmm... is, like, we're not a minority group. Mm-hmm. Like, we are heritage Americans. Mm-hmm. And the left hates heritage Americans.

44:40Mm-hmm. And they- But we're also leading the charts in hate crimes every year. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's good. [laughs] But I, I, I, I think that a lot of... Like, first of all, I don't think it's actually on the rise. Um, in 2019, 2018 and 2019, there were, every day there was a physical attack on a, from Orthodox- Mm-hmm... Chabad Haredi Jew in New York and New Jersey every day, and nobody talked about it. Mm-hmm. Because nobody cares about Orthodox Jews. They're the Jews of the Jews. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

45:11Like, Haredi Jews are the Jews of the Jews. Mm-hmm. And so basically, like, it, nobody talked about it. It was much more violent than what we have now. It wasn't just some teenager drawing a swastika on a synagogue, which is bad. I'm not in favor of that. Right, right. But literally- You think it's more vi- it's less violent post October 7th? I know. It's much less violent. Like, you don't have Haredi Jews being beaten up in the streets of Brooklyn every week. Like, we, that, we went through that. Every other week. Yeah. No, no, it's not.

45:36There's not physical violence against Orthodox Jews every other week. Mm-hmm. It's not. It, I mean, it happens quite a lot. I don't know the, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but it's definitely not, uh, you know... I, and if you add to that the ostras- you know, ostracizing people for being who they are, I think a lot of Jews now today are also being like, "You know what? I'm gonna..." And obviously you and I, or the three of us, aren't like that, but, "You know what?

46:02I'm gonna tuck my Star of David in," or, "I'm gonna, you know, I was gonna go to the Israel Day Parade, but maybe I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna deal with that." I think there's a lot of people kind of taking a step back instead of taking a step forward, which is a different kind of problem. Mm-hmm. It's a different kind of problem, but it's a problem. But, uh- Yeah... I wanna address something actually that I find fascinating. What you're saying is so counterintuitive and so, uh, u- upstream- Yeah...

46:25of what everyone else in the Jewish world is saying, and I, I'm actually not even asking you about what you're saying. I'm saying, how do you have the, the strength, and I even wanna use the word audacity in a good way, to, like, just stand by your principles? [laughs] No, like, how do you... I, I admire it. Oh. No, like I'm, I'm jealous of you that you are so... You, you believe in what you're saying, and I, every time I watch you and w- see a clip or wa- you know?

46:50And I just say to myself, "I wish I could be that person who just believes what you, what you know." Right? You, you know the research. You know the data. You know what you're, you're talking about, and you don't care that 98 other Jews in a room of 100 Jews are gonna scream at you and say, "You don't know what you're talking about." [laughs] And you get up there and, and I, I, I can't say. Like, it's really something special. [laughs] Well, but Hila, you do that, too. I... No, like Batya. Yeah, you do that, too. Yeah. No, I don't. It's different.

47:16I speak, I feel like I speak to our audien- like, I speak within our community. I, I'm brave, but you're brave in a way that is even different because- I don't think I'm very brave... I think- I, I really don't. I mean, I, I think it's like, I, like, I just, I have a sickness. Like, once I've decided something is true, I have to say it. Yeah. And I can't not say it, and I can't say the other thing. But honestly, like, it's just, like, being religious is, I couldn't do this if I wasn't religious. Yeah. I just feel like I answer to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Mm-hmm.

47:44And so, like, the idea that somebody on Twitter is gonna, like, get under my skin, like, I'm literally, like, I, I, [laughs] like, we're the forever people. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, there's no... Like, the idea that I should be scared of these losers- [laughs]... it's so offensive to me. I know, I know. And I think that it's, like, that coupled with, like, just this, there's something in my character. Like, do you ever have this feeling like you're at a social event or engagement and, like, you can tell that someone is expecting you to say something- Mm-hmm...

48:12like they really need you to say something, and you don't think it's true? Like, I'm not saying I never do that, but it physically- Yeah... hurts me to have to say, like- Yeah... "Oh, that was delicious." [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. I will do it. I will do it, but, like, or to pretend like somebody's not a psychopath- Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? No, totally. Like, where you have to, you're supposed to pretend somebody's like a... I can't stand doing that. Like, it makes my skin, like, just itch. And I just happen to be in a job where, like, most of the people, like, that is our job as journalists, and most journalists don't do that.

48:40Like, they just say whatever they're supposed to say. Mm-hmm. And, like, they will never say the thing their team doesn't wanna hear. Mm-hmm. And that is just, like, fundamentally not my character. I don't understand why you would become a journalist if, like, you can't... Like, your job is to make people uncomfortable, not to make them comfortable, but nobody's doing that anymore, like, on the right or the left. Do you ever get shook up, though? Like, do you ever get, like, hurt- Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah... or?

49:03'Cause for me, like, I talk a big talk, and I, I have to say what's on my mind, but I also respond very emotionally to things. And I'm like, if you put me in a debate room with, I don't know, uh, w- name your, your, you know, slew of fucktards that exist right now on the anti-Zionist left or right, I don't know how I would handle that. I would, like, start hyperventilating. But maybe that's experience. When I was less established in my career- Mm-hmm...

49:28it got, it was, uh, very scary because every time that happened, every time y- the mob came after you on Twitter, you were like, "Is that the end of my career?" Right. And I almost did lose my career a few times because if your boss is a coward, like, you're finished. Right. Yeah. They see that and they're like... So that almost happened to me a number of times, and then it's scary 'cause you're like, "Oh, I'm not gonna be able to do the thing that I wanna do," which is to tell the truth to people- Mm-hmm...

49:47and have an impact or whatever. But now that I'm more established, and now that I... Like, and the other thing is the thing that really helps me a lot is, um- I, I, I, I promise myself, and it's true, and I do this, if I am wrong, I admit it immediately Mm. Mm. And if you know you're gonna do that, it gives you a lot of confidence, 'cause you're like, "Okay, this is what I h- I can do with the evidence available to me right now, and if more evidence comes out and I was wrong, or if my haters were right, I'm just gonna admit it."

50:14And I know that about myself. Yeah. I know I will admit it. I have admitted it. I've been disastrously wrong about a bunch of things, like really big people. [laughs] Yeah. And I say it, and that is a very, like, clarifying, cleansing thing. But I also, I just honestly think, like, being spiritually, like, one with your God- Mm-hmm... it's like, yeah, sometimes I'll go on Twitter and somebody who I thought was my friend is out there, like, whipping up a mob against me. Like, that, i- obviously, that makes your heart rate- Mm. Yeah...

50:39like, your stomach sinks. You're like, "I thought you were my friend." Like, suddenly, like, very, very famous people are tweeting really, really mean things about you. Mm. And you just have to log off and be like, "I'm just gonna go do something else right now." Yeah. Maybe I'll say a little mincha, you know. [laughs] Maybe I'll say a little, till I'm, like, center myself. Pray over chat. Yeah, just, like, remind myself, like, why I'm in this. Like, I'm not in this to be a famous journalist. I'm in this because, like, you know, God put me here to do this. Mm. And, like, I...

51:04But yeah, obviously, sometimes you do get shaken up. It's, it's, you know, part of the game. Yeah. I mean, the less time spent on Twitter, the better, in general. Yes. I think we can all agree on that. A friend of mine just- What about, um- A friend of mine just wrote a piece for, he has a brand new Substack, and his name is John Warwick, if anybody wants to follow him. But he just wrote a piece that, like, the f- i- in opposition to the fake Jewish joy phenomenon that, you know, the Jewish establishment is trying to, like, build. And he's like...

51:30And, and he also is very opposed to, like, I, I don't wanna put words in his mouth, but he's also opposed to, like, the antisemitism, uh, military complex that the Jewish community is also building. [laughs] Right? So, and he's just saying, he's like, "We need, like, authentic experiences that feel good for us," right? And he gives this, like, e- example of being at a concert, and the guy starts saying antisemitic stuff, the singer, I forgot. Dave Matthews Band.

51:56And so he, like, pulls out an Israeli flag, and he's just, like, dancing, and he's like, you know, in that moment, he's like, "I wasn't doing it 'cause I needed a picture on social media or that I needed anyone else to notice." He's like, "That's what I wanted in that moment. That's what I felt." Right. "I was so proud to be there and to be a Jew and to have my flag with me." Mm. And, you know, he's saying we need to, like, really try to establish these kinds of experiences for Jews right now, where they could feel authentically, not because s- the Federation told us today we're ha- we're Jewish joy, right?

52:27Today, we have Jewish joy. Like, there are ways- We need Jewish balls, not Jewish joy... yeah, we need, we just... No, but we need to help Jews. And I think Batya's idea that instead of looking at everything doom and gloom, like we're living in the worst, this is worse than 1939, which is an embarrassing thing to even say, and I see people say that. No, that's right. But I see people say that. Yeah. It's worse than, uh, w- the Weimar Republic, worse than Lodz in 1938. Really? Is it? It's really not worse than Lodz in 1938.

52:56[laughs] We'd all be a lot skinnier, if it were. Go tell, yeah, go tell the le- people in the city of Lodz. I mean, really. So, like, I appreciate her- Yeah, but, but-... the, this idea... I feel like for Jews, it's al- it's, it's always, like, everything's fine, or we're going to the death camps on Tuesday. Yeah. Like, those are the two sides. And, like, it doesn't have to be, those aren't our two options. Right. Although, I am very much in the everything's fine camp. I know. Yeah. [laughs] Which, which is refreshing. It's ki- it's very refreshing. Yeah.

53:24My book is a f- it's a polemic, but it's also a feel-good book. I don't know. I don't think I would be fine. Yeah. [laughs] I don't know. I don't think I can join a, if I wanted to go do an improv class in New York right now, which God help me, I would never do such a thing, and everybody had to go around the room and introduce themselves, and I would say, "Hi, I'm Yael. I was born and raised in Israel," I don't think it would be fine. Do I think people will beat me up? No. But Yael, you're literally being like, "I can't go do a thing I never wanna do and really would hate doing."

53:50[laughs] Okay. [laughs] But something that I'll say something I did wanna do, or let's say Chaya Lare would wanna do that. What? Like, there, yes, there are, there, the left- By the way, there are things that I've wanted to do that I'm like, eh... but Yael, you think if you were wearing a red MAGA hat- I know... like, you would ha- they would be any different? No, that too. They wouldn't. That too. Okay. So, so we're in that camp, and we should be honored to be in that camp. Mm.

54:07Like, we are, yes, there is a lot of hate, and the left owns a lot of institutions, including improv, you know? [laughs] Pulitzer awards. We need to take back improv- No... is what I think we need to do. [laughs] Um, I have to go to my next interview, sadly. Okay. But I have, like, two more minutes if you want- Wait, okay. Yeah. I wanna ask you one more question. You have a lot of, you're known to have, like, a lot of friends who disagree with you politically. Who do you really love that you cannot stand their politics? Oh, I mean, many people. That's so funny.

54:37[laughs] She's not naming them. [laughs] I mean, that's like the... I mean, my husband's a libertarian, guys. Like, what could be more embarrassing than that? [laughs] So true. I thought you were gonna name-drop somebody famous, but- Uh, Toby Levy, who my book is dedicated to, is a Holocaust survivor. I sit next to her in shul every Shabbat. That was such a sweet dedication. I'm so honored. I know. Yeah. Um, she thinks I'm really wrong about things. [laughs] And I think she's really wrong about things. Aw. You know? And it, and we debate, and it's great. I love that. And it's, it's wonderful. Yeah.

55:06Like, I, I mean, you have to have people in your life who you think are really wrong, and, but, I mean, they're not necessarily famous people. You're right. Although, I don't know, my friend Charles Love, like, he's, you know, really conservative, and there's things we just really don't agree. Thinks I'm crazy. Yeah. [laughs] And he's very precious to me. Good. Yeah. I mean, like, a, I, I don't know. A lot of... Yeah, L, you. [laughs] We, we, we really do not see eye to eye in this conversation. Yeah. I love you to death. But it's so much fun. Exactly. Like, I love talking to you.

55:32I have a podcast called Prove It with NewsNation every day at 4:00 PM. Mm-hmm. I, I, it's me and some Democrat. Every day it's a different one. Mm. Mm-hmm. And we debate the biggest headline of the day, and I just love it, because it's always people who I love and admire and think are amazing and really disagree with. Mm. And I just feel like we're healing the nation by doing this, like, every day. Well- Amen... mine is Graham Plattner. I love him, but I just disagree with his... I'm joking. [laughs] I love him so much.

55:59I wish he would text me a picture of his penis. That's really all I want from my candidate or my congressional- Wow... or whatev- I don't even know what he's running for. Batya- I was trying to think of, like, what is, like, a game that this, that this Graham Plattner situation is, like, like, almost like, like there's a game, there's gotta be some game that's like, it's like a scale, and it's like, how many pieces of shit can you put on this side of the scale that the Democrats will get off?

56:22[laughs] It's like, Nazi tattoo. Oh, my God. No. Maybe if you misgender somebody, they'll finally drop him. Exactly. Batya, thank you so much. We love, love, love talking to you. You're one of our favorite guests. I love you guys so much. God bless you and protect you, and- Thanks, Batya... and hopefully we'll see you soon. [upbeat outro music]