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0:10Speaker 1:You're listening to Amma mea podcast Muma Mer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast is recorded on We spend a lot of time talking and thinking about romantic relationships, searching for and finding that one person who'll enrich your life, who'll choose you and only you even change your last name. But what about friendships, Those deep, unbreakable bonds, the ones who make your life better without the strings attached, Those soulmate level best friends.

0:46Speaker 1:They're the person you call with good news, the one you laugh and cry with, the one you run to when your heart is broken. They know your secrets, your history, your dreams, every side and every version of you. You just couldn't imagine life without them. But you don't have to, because you know through all of life's ups and downs, the good times and the bad, They'll always be there, won't they. I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex best Friend. Come with me as we dive into a collection of stories about friendships past through the eyes and the hearts of the very people who lived them.

1:31Speaker 1:I want to take you back to two thousand and five. Pop culture was defined by the iconic motorol eraser, you downloaded music on LimeWire, carefully and savagely, curated your top eight friends on MySpace, and blasted fall our boy through your iPod shuffle. And for Sarah, it was also the year she met Laura.

1:49Speaker 2:I was in year eight when I met Laura. They were part of the cool group of girls and I was more of the nerdy group of girls. We eventually made friends over time, being in class together, and back at that stage, MSN was massive on the chat system, so we became closer and closer over that time. We'd spent all night on the cordless landline talking to each other till about midnight. We both didn't love going to school, so we would definitely have a lot of sick days and we'd spend the day on the phone all day together talking. At school, we were always together on weekends.

2:23Speaker 2:We always had constant sleepovers, and everyone kind of knew us as the two girls who would go to the open party houses would sometimes be kissing the boys and just enjoying being that fourteen fifteen year old age bracket. I guess the things that made us so attached was we were both a bit boy obsessed at that age, we loved makeup, so we were always talking about makeup, hair, and also just general life stuff that we'd bond about about school, going shopping.

2:50Speaker 3:We'd go do weekends in the city.

2:52Speaker 2:We'd catch the train in and it was just over time, the friendship grew and you became each other's safe person.

2:58Speaker 1:But once high school ended and they were no longer seeing each other all day every day, that began to change.

3:04Speaker 2:So when we were about sixteen seventeen, we slowly grew apart from each other. Both of us had left school to pursue working full time. We had met and made new friends being at work, so we weren't together twenty four to seven, and we would still see each other on weekends, but then slowly it started to drift apart.

3:23Speaker 3:I think just we had a.

3:25Speaker 2:Whole new life to explore outside of school and we didn't really need each other to be each other's survival guide. At school, we were still friends, but it probably honestly went a couple of years where we hadn't spoken to each other at all.

3:37Speaker 1:But the friendship gods had other ideas, and fate eventually intervened.

3:41Speaker 2:I was working one night at the local shopping center and they came in and we started chatting, and they were looking for a new job, and I said, oh, there's actually a job going at my work. How about you give me your resume and we'll get you in for an interview. They got the job, and it was like literally the last couple of years hadn't happened. I went back to her family house, I saw her family, she saw mine again, and we didn't really ever speak about that period where we both fell out and didn't really talk to each other. It was like swept under the rug and we just continued out normal daily life.

4:16Speaker 2:I think as you get older, you meet people in your life, and if they come back into your life, I think they're meant to be there for some reason. And I felt like she was everything to me. I was single at the time, so we just spent all our time together and she knew all my deepest, darkest secrets.

4:33Speaker 3:I knew all hers. And I think as you.

4:35Speaker 2:Get older, friendships develop and they get deeper and deeper. They're not like the friendships she had going through primary school and high school. We were close again. She was my best friend, with text all day. It would spend weekends together. If we both weren't working and we would take our lunch breaks together, she would always listen to me. She always stood up for me, so I think I always knew she had my back, and she had a really good family dynamic that I probably didn't have as much at home. So I really enjoyed going to their house, having dinner, having sleepover still even when we were older, and just being there for each other. It just made me feel special, like it made me feel like we could do anything together, like we were just so close that I could tell her anything, and that's what I felt like, I could call her up if there was anything to go wrong. I'm not the closest to my mum, so I think it really helped having her as nearly a maternal figure in my life, even though we were the same age. I just felt like she could give me any advice I ever needed and would be the person I would turn to to ask any sort of

5:38Speaker 2:important question. I could have called her any time, any night, and she would have answered the phone to me. She'd never wanted anyone else to get super close to me, so she was always could come off a bit cold and people to think she'd be a bit rude where with me, I never received that at my end, but I could see it coming through to other people. She would only open up to me, like when we are really close. It was only really me involved in her friendship.

6:05Speaker 2:There was a few other friends in the background, but really I was her number one person.

6:10Speaker 1:But there soon came a time when Laura did meet another number one person, a guy named Ben. But having a boyfriend didn't change Sarah's position as Laura's closest person. It just meant that top spot would now be shared, and Sarah didn't mind one bit.

6:24Speaker 2:He seemed great. He seemed very caring. It poppy took about three months into her coming back into my life and us working together to meet him. I'd gone over to their house and they just moved into a new place, and they seemed really happy. He seemed like you'd do anything for her, and she was one of, as I said, a bit cold that it took a while for if she was dating someone to get to that close aspect, so I knew it was serious.

6:49Speaker 3:When they moved in.

6:49Speaker 2:Together, I was really happy for them. I didn't see her as much on the weekends as we used to do. Obviously, people getting in relationships, their priorities change, but she was still always texting me, but she was hanging out more with him on the weekends and than seeing me and going out and partying. I think every gets a little bit envious of their best friend finding a decent partner and then being so happy, and you kind of being the one in the background who's single, who's like the third wheel, watching them big que and you're just sitting there by yourself. I think I'd been single for about six to twelve months by that stage, and I asked her, like, does he have any cute friends you can introduce me to?

7:32Speaker 2:And she said, look, we're going to have like a housewarming thing. I want you to come. There's some friends coming who are single, but there's one in particular who I think you would get along with really well. His name was Sam. So we met on a night before we went out. We had a housewarming at their house and I was getting dressed with the girls in the room and we were all giggling and I'd put on a dress and I was like, oh, I can't get this. After the girls were like, go ask Sam to do your dress up. So I went out there and he made a crack, like on none of the girls could help you, could they? And from that night on we were basically it was on. Like we went out together that night, we had a cheeky kiss on the dance floor, and I was just really happy. I couldn't leave this nice, normal guy was into me.

8:16Speaker 1:By the time they were twenty two, Sarah and Laura had reached peak friendship goals. They were best friends, dating best friends, spending weekends together, celebrating milestones, and building lives that seemed to just fit together perfectly. It felt like the best of both worlds, and they couldn't have and didn't want to imagine life any differently. Then came two of life's bigots milestones. Laura and Ben got engaged, and shortly after found out they were expecting a bub I was.

8:43Speaker 2:Just so happy for them because we were quite young. We were about twenty three at that age, so it was so exciting that they were having a baby, and it just made me really appreciate that I could be there for them why they're going through this also hard but exciting time. I thought it would definitely change as in even more closer because I'd be there to help her with the babies and be there to help her through pregnancy, like take care of her. Obviously we were working together. I could help her in that way. If she was feeling sick or anything, I could be there to help her. But I remember just being so excited at that point. My relation at the time was still going really well. We were happy, we were happy for them, and again I thought this was the endgame. I was like, perfect, I can see how this plays out for them, and then see how it will play out for us. Laura really wanted me to get pregnant too, and I just wasn't ready at that stage.

9:34Speaker 3:But she's like, if you get pregnant, we have babies together. And Sam and I.

9:38Speaker 2:Sam definitely didn't want kids at that stage, and I was like, I'm not going to trap him to get pregnant, but it would have been nice to have kids close together. But it was really good. Sam and I would go shopping on the weekends to get the baby clothes, and it just strengthened us all being together because we'd be happy to come around and just hang out and just chill with them. When the baby was born, I was really there for Laura like I would have Mondays off, So every Monday I'd go around and spend my day with her at home. I'd bring McDonald's or bring some type of food, helpful of the washing, hold the baby so she could shower. So every Monday I was basically at her house, stepping up and helping her out. Because I think being a young mum you can also feel a bit distance from everyone else. So I just wanted to be there to support her, to show times won't change because.

10:25Speaker 3:You've had a baby. I'll still be here for you.

10:28Speaker 2:We were probably closer as in an emotional level because she was a new mom. I was there helping her, helping the baby all the time, and I felt like, yeah, it was an emotional level. And then she'd asked Sam and I to be godparents and we were blown away. We aren't cofflick at all that they were and we were more than happy to step up for that challenge and that big role. At this stage, Laura had had a second baby. The babies were born very close together, and we just felt so special. I still remember that day and have the photos and look back on it of all of us standing up at the church together and having the babies in our arms, and it just felt like these people trust me with their children if anything was to happen to them, and they also trust me in a way that they think I can guide their children in life if they have any questions. Sam felt honored too, because I was so close with them and he was also close. So we always did anything for the kids that needed to be done. We were always spoiling them, and he saw how happy I was with the kids too.

11:30Speaker 1:But it was around this time, three years into her relationship with Sam, Sarah began to notice something had changed. As Laura and Ben settled into the next chapter of their lives, Sarah couldn't help but feel like her own relationship was beginning to unravel.

11:44Speaker 3:I loved being there with the baby.

11:46Speaker 2:I was then feeling a bit clucky myself, but I knew Sam wasn't ready to have kids at all.

11:51Speaker 3:Things changed over time.

11:53Speaker 2:He was still going out quite a lot, where Ben had settled down and had the kids and wasn't going out, and I was still at home waiting for Sam to text me at thram to say if he was coming home to me. It slowly made me lose trust because I would be away all night waiting to hear from him, and he wouldn't respond or come home. I would be over at Laura's mum's house crying, saying like I can't like, this is horrible. He's out drinking all weekend and I'm the last thing on his mind. And her mum would say like, You've got to think about this long term.

12:23Speaker 3:If you have children, what will that look like. Laura was also supportive.

12:28Speaker 2:She was like, he'll grow out of it once you have a child, and I was like, I don't know if he will. Like there was those red flags at the start, but it got worse I think over time, because Laura had had a baby and she was at home with her partner and they were so happy, where my partner was still out drinking like they were eighteen again. I'd constantly be leaning on Laura, being like, he's not coming home, he's not answering, and she'd be the person i'd call when we would have the big blow ups and say, this has happened this time, what should I do?

12:58Speaker 3:And I just think he wasn't ready.

13:00Speaker 2:It maybe scared him a bit to see them settle down and be happy, and he was like, no, I'm not about that. Her advice would be, you can't keep living like this in this anxiety state of when he's coming home. And also it's not acceptable for him to go out and not tell you if he's coming home or not, because I obviously would think what about if he's had an accident, something could have happened. And it was just a constant state that I was constantly calling Laura every weekend because this had happened. She was really supportive if she'd listen. Her mum was supportive too, because we.

13:32Speaker 3:Were all close.

13:34Speaker 2:Laura and Sam still stayed very good friends through this whole time. But she knew the other side of him that probably no one else knew, that he was out every weekend and could get nasty when he would drink and just basically forget about all these responsibilities. So she was always on my side, I felt, but she knew more detail than anyone else. I always felt like Laura was backing me one hundred percent. She would ask me to come over if they were going out, so I wouldn't be alone sitting at home. I would go over and see the way they communicate Ben and Laura, and then I would go home and see the way Sam and I would communicate and it was completely different. I wanted what they had in my head. They had the fairy tale life, and I was living the worst life.

14:19Speaker 2:And a lot of people didn't know, apart from Laura, how bad things had gotten at home. I think I was embarrassed to admit that my relationship that looked so good was so falling apart at home, like I would spend every weekend alone, or I'd be with my friends constantly, and everyone thought we were together and so happy, And you don't want to admit that there's failure going on, because once you admit it, you know.

14:42Speaker 3:That there is a problem.

14:44Speaker 2:I felt awkward to know that we were most likely going to break up at this point, and I knew it wouldn't just affect Sam and I. It was going to affect our friendship group of the four of us hanging out. Basically, Laura had known what was happening. We were in couples therapy, we were discussing everything, and one day I just woke up and said to her, like I'm done.

15:04Speaker 3:I can't do this anymore.

15:05Speaker 2:And I still remember I went out and spoke to Sam and I said, I can't live in anxious state anymore. You're not changing your ways, you're not taking on anything on board. And I remember Laura saying, like, You've got to do what's best for you, but I'm really worried about you.

15:22Speaker 1:It was only natural for Laura to be worried. Breakups are never easy, and no one understands your heartbreak quite like your best friend. Laura had been there through every moment, heard every story, celebrated every milestone, and witnessed every red flag and the cracks as they began to form. As painful as it was to admit, Sarah knew breaking up was the right decision, but she knew, no matter how hard, the next stage was going to be, her best friend would be right there by her side.

15:48Speaker 3:When I told Sam that you know I was done, it was done. He was great.

15:52Speaker 2:For the first six weeks that we were separated, I was still living there. Laura couldn't believe it, but we still lived together. We still slept in the same bed. Nothing ever happened, but I needed to find a place for myself. He owned the place we were living in, so I really had to start from scratch. I'd never lived out a home before, and he said I could stay as long as I needed. At that point, our relationship had ended amicabul. We were fine, we were happy. We're basically doing everything you'd do in a relationship apart from the sexual sides of things. But then I noticed that Laura was slowly moving away. There was just little things I could tell. Wasn't asking too many questions about where I was going to live or what I was going to do. She kept just saying I'm really worried about your mental health constantly. I think my mental health had really declined in that relationship with Sam. I'd put on a lot of weight. Looking back at the photos, I think, oh my god, how had I got like that? So I think she was worried that I would have a mental breakdown. But to be honest, I was the happiest

16:49Speaker 2:i'd been making that decision in the last fourteen months of the relationship. But she just kept saying I'm worried about your mental health constant, and I was like, I don't need that reminder about my mental health. And something that sticks with me really vividly is at that time, she kept tagging me on Instagram to win a wedding, and eventually I had to say to it I have to stop tagging me in this. I'm just going through a major breakup and you're tagging me to win a wedding, Like I can't do that.

17:16Speaker 3:Stop tagging me.

17:18Speaker 1:The split was an adjustment for everyone, having been so entwined in each other's lives. Things felt a little awkward, sure, but Sarah was confident everything would settle into the new normal with time. For now, she just needed some space to heal and look towards her next chapter.

17:33Speaker 2:I found my only little place, and I was happy. I actually was like relieved. I wasn't crying myself to sleep every night. I missed the friendship side of things with Sam, but I knew I was a lot better. I wasn't all weekends sitting up waiting for him to text me. Laura was still making contact with me, kept saying still worried about your mental health, and I was like, I am good, Like you should pick up. I'm feeling great. And then things slowly started to decline. I didn't hear from her as much, even though I was reaching out.

18:04Speaker 2:But also I felt like if my friend was going through a major breakup, I'd be there for them. It's just showing up, dropping some food off or coming over with the kids when it's the weekend. I was seeing the kids for a little bit, but then it slowly just changed. I'd got a new job, which I was so thankful for, so like a fresh start, so I didn't have those Mondays off anymore where i'd have the time, so I really only had the weekends off, and then her partner Ben would be around, so it kind of changed the dynamic that the first time i'd seen Ben after the breakup, it was like a little bit awkward, but it just I think my lifestyle changed too. I went from being in a relationship to all of a sudden being single, living alone, working Monday to Friday again, so I didn't have obviously as much time as I used to go over there.

18:51Speaker 1:And then the inevitable happened.

18:54Speaker 2:I found out Sam had a new girlfriend because I had keys still to his house. I was picking up the dogs at this stage because we were still co sharing them, and I went to the bathroom and saw a face cleanser, So I knew there was a girl around, but I didn't know it was that serious that we will leave makeup products around, And that's basically when things kicked off between us because it'd only been I think about six to seven weeks i'd been moved out, and to me, that was wild and things actually then got quite nasty between us. So I'd messaged Laura and been like, I've found this. She said I'd had an inkling he was seeing someone. There had been talk amongst the boys.

19:34Speaker 2:I don't know how serious it is, but I know they met at the local pub. But it hurt my feelings because I think I would have rather found out for Laura that hey, I've heard Sam's met someone, so it's not that much of a shock to the system. I could process it myself alone. I understood why she probably didn't say anything because she knew it would have hurt me, but I think I would have rather the heads up to just know that was going on. And you, obviously her pority is her partner, but I think, girl Codis, you probably should have just mentioned something. It made me feel like, what else do you know that's going on that I don't really I know because I feel like she felt a tug to be with her partner and his friends and kind of ruled out that we'd known each other since high school and we were actually the friends.

20:20Speaker 2:It wasn't you hadn't met me through your partner. I felt abandoned, not only by the breakup with Sam, but also I felt more hurt from the friendship with Laura than my breakup, because it slowly started to decline. It was like I was going through a breakup, but also then it was starting to be a friendship breakup too, So I really needed my best friend.

20:42Speaker 1:But just when Sarah needed her most, Laura went missing from her life, at least in physical form.

20:49Speaker 2:I was on Instagram one day and I saw her post a photo with Sam's new partner. We'd been broken up for about three or four months at this stage, and she posted a photo with her, and that broke my heart, Like I could not believe that. I was happy for Sam that he'd met someone new, but seeing her post that photo with her, I was like, there was no need to do that, because you know I'm going to see that. I was just like, I would never do that, because especially when you know that I'm going to see it. I think you could have also said, hey, I'm going to an event. Sam's new partner's going to be there, and I would have said thanks for the heads up, but posting it on social media for everyone to see that knewest both and knew that Sam and I were together and had broken up.

21:33Speaker 3:It was really just.

21:34Speaker 2:Like a sting to my heart. It hurt more than the breakup with Sam. And then constantly more photos were appearing of them together or they're made events together, and it just at that point I wasn't really hearing from Laura anymore. I did bring it up with her because I said stop, like I don't want to see any of that. And that's when I took a step back and actually blocked myself from viewing her stories because I thought, if this is going to keep coming up constantly, it's best for me and my mental health to just put a stop to it so I can't see it at all.

22:05Speaker 2:I know I would just keep looking at the stories NonStop, and then that gets worse and worse and.

22:09Speaker 3:You end up in a hole.

22:10Speaker 2:And I didn't really want to see them with the new partner with the kids either, because that would have really hurt me because at this stage I hadn't seen the kids for ages and like they were such a big part of my life, and then I just stopped seeing them all of a sudden, I.

22:24Speaker 3:Never heard from them anymore.

22:26Speaker 2:I had reached out a couple of times, but at that point I had felt like I was left on an island by myself, like when there should have been people supporting me. And I guess my other friends really stepped up in that and showed me they're around for a major breakup. When big life events happen, that's when you find out who really is around you.

22:43Speaker 1:Sarah was hurt by Laura as apparent lack of empathy or understanding, but she didn't see it as the end of their friendship. That was until word got back to her about how Laura was describing what had happened between them.

22:55Speaker 2:There was a school reunion, someone asked, do you still see Sarah and they explained that things had changed because of the breakup, and basically at the end of the day they had to pick Ben over myself. And to hear that even cut me deeper to the point where I said, well, that's what you're going to be like it's I don't want to be a part of that friendship or around people like that. The first six months was really hard. I was still happy that Sam and I had broken up. I knew it was the right thing to do, but doesn't make it any less lonely, especially when Laura, who was meant to be my best friend I thought would be there for me. It was really I still remember those nights by myself in the unit being lonely, and it took a while to get used to it and be able to realize I can lean on my other friendships in my group, and that's when those friendships really got strong and developed, because I knew that I really needed some company and they were there to help me out. There'd be lots of times when I'd be sad and I just want to call her, but I'd remember I'm calling her to discuss our friendship

23:56Speaker 2:and what's happened, and turned to her for advice. So it did get hard because when you go through a big breakup in your life, you just want your best friend because they're there to support you to make you feel great.

24:07Speaker 3:And I just didn't have that at all.

24:09Speaker 2:I couldn't really turned to her, so I turned to all the other friends in my life that were there and work colleagues that were there every day to see me if I was upset, crying, happy. All those different aspects. The fading off happened slowly, probably over the three six months, and then one day it was just there is really no friendship anymore. It's gotten to the point where it was too awkward for someone to speak out and say, hey, what's going on between us, like let's get together and have a coffee. It'd just gone too far from that point.

24:40Speaker 2:I sometimes would consider it, but then I thought, I've been through the traumatic relationship breakup, so why am I reaching out to someone who should be there for me when I've been there for them? And I know that's a bit childish, but at the end of the day, you grow up and think, do I want this person in my life if this is how they're going to treat me when something major happens.

25:00Speaker 1:So they never could up. They never had the conversation. Now, almost eight years later, Sarah is still left without the one thing she's been wanting this whole time. Closure.

25:11Speaker 2:It's been eight years since the breakup with Sam, and I think to this day it still affects me more the friendship breakdown with Laura.

25:18Speaker 3:I think about her all the time, not.

25:21Speaker 2:In a creepy way, as in a way of where you would be where she'd be fitting into my life.

25:26Speaker 3:Now.

25:26Speaker 2:I'm still single, so I don't know where she'd fit in because she's obviously still engaged and has got the two children who have grown up. But I think, oh, she'd be here for these milestones like my thirtieth birthday, just major life milestones that like my friends now support me on and I support them. So I still think, like I still still got the photos from when we were in high school, and I just think where my life would be differently now. I guess I think the heartbreak of losing Laura has now turned into more of a negative experience in my head or more of a disappointment.

26:02Speaker 2:I always think, oh, how would I act if I was in that point of view now, and it's just turning into.

26:08Speaker 3:More of a grudge.

26:10Speaker 2:I would say, like, I really think of her, and I think of a grudge, and it makes me angry and also upset that that's how our friendship ended and that we're no longer.

26:20Speaker 3:Friends at all.

26:22Speaker 2:I really missed the kids, especially after we'd become godparents, Like I was so close with those kids. I was there for all the nappy changes, the vomits, the bottle feeds, and it just made me weary now that anyone I meet with kids like, I try not to get too attached or too close to just because I'd never want to, Like, you know, the kids were too young, they wouldn't remember me, but I remember them, and.

26:43Speaker 3:Like, it was just really upsetting to miss the kids.

26:47Speaker 2:I look back at our friendship and I see the happy times and how much Laura helped me at that time in my life, but also it just disappointed me. Really, I probably wouldn't really get involved with someone's partner's friend now. I'd be very weary because I feel like it can break up friendship, so I'd never cross that bridge again. And I just am that that's how the friendship ended, and there was never really any closure. If I went back in time and thought about what could have changed, I probably would have called her out when I noticed she started drifting away, especially when I'd moved into my own place. That's probably when I would have said, hey, like, is everything okay. I've noticed you've been distanced, but in hindsight, there's nothing I can do.

27:29Speaker 3:That's how it's ended.

27:32Speaker 2:I think people come into your life at certain times in your life where you need that person and they leave because that job's been done. Every relationship breakup, I look back and think, what have I learned from that relationship? What could I walk away and say I learned this because I was in this relationship. And that's what I look back with Laura. I go, what have I learned from that friendship breakup? And I look that I will always treat my friends with respect, always be open and communicate, and when someone's going through a hard time, turn up even if they say I don't need anything, they just need a hug. Turn up at their front door and say I'm here. We don't need to speak, but I'm here for you.

28:23Speaker 1:Everyone Has an Ex Best Friend is a Mintimedia production and proudly part of the Mum and mea network. This interview was conducted by me Georgia Love and written and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a story you'd like to share, email Everyone has an Ex at Mintimedia dot com dot au. You can support us by following the show in your favorite podcast app and leaving us a five star review