Blood Is Thicker

0:10Speaker 1:You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.

0:14Speaker 2:Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters this podcast is recorded on. We spend a lot of time talking and thinking about romantic relationships, searching for and finding that one person who'll enrich your life, who'll choose you and only you, even change your last name. But what about friendships? Those deep, unbreakable bonds. The ones who make your life better without the strings attached. Those soulmate-level best friends. They're the person you call with good news.

0:48Speaker 2:The one you laugh and cry with. The one you run to when your heart is broken. They know your secrets, your history, your dreams, every side and every version of you. You just couldn't imagine life without them. But you don't have to, because you know through all of life's ups and downs, the good times and the bad, they'll always be there. Won't they? I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has an Ex-Best Friend. Come with me as we dive into a collection of stories about friendships past, through the eyes and the hearts of the very people who lived them. We all know the saying, blood is thicker than water. At the end of the day, family comes first.

1:34Speaker 2:But what about the saying, friends are the family you choose? Just because you share a bloodline with someone doesn't mean they'll always have your back. Well, for Rachel, she didn't need to decide which saying she found to be most true because she had both in one.

1:47Speaker 3:I'm the youngest.

1:48Speaker 1:Deborah is the eldest. Kelly is the second eldest. We have different dads as well. So they've got the same dad, different dad to me. So between me and Deborah, there's 13, 14 year age gap. When I was growing up, my sisters basically raised me like.

2:08Speaker 3:Mum was out and about.

2:10Speaker 1:And I spent a lot of time growing up with my sisters and my older sister because she was so cool and She let me do whatever I want, basically. My mum was never really emotionally invested in us, so I got that love and care from my sisters and then from Deborah. She gave me the attention and the love that I craved from my mum. All it was was us three for a long time.

2:41Speaker 2:It was a different relationship than many would have had with their sisters growing up. because Deborah especially had done a lot of the growing up part before Rachel even came along, and this made their bond incredibly special and close. But it also meant the inevitable next step of growing up for Deborah came much earlier than her younger sibling.

2:59Speaker 3:They moved out when I was six.

3:02Speaker 1:I still saw them frequently, you know, like, and I would go to Deborah's house for, like, sleepovers, and that was my escape. Essentially, like, when they left home, like, I grew up as an only child. because they were all adults, got married, started having their own kids, and I was at home with mum. When she met her husband, they got married. They moved about six hours away. Deborah's husband left before she did, so he left to start work and set up, and he actually left on my ninth or tenth birthday. And so I was so upset, and I was just so... heartbroken because again like they were my safe space but like our relationship kind of got stronger school holidays I used to go down there and basically spend my entire holidays down there with her I would go down and spend weeks with them we would go on family holidays together whenever they came up to Perth pretty much everything else that was going on in my life it would have to wait and I would spend all the time with them. It was just that little add-on, you know, we confided in each other.

4:20Speaker 3:That's who we were. It was like a good.

4:24Speaker 1:10 years that we just, we did everything together. It's not that normal relationship where you grow up with your friends or your best friend and you get married together and then you have babies together, like similar timing.

4:37Speaker 3:You go through a lot together.

4:39Speaker 1:Our childhood, we had trauma that we dealt with that we, you don't feel awkward talking about it with your sister because you've lived it together. You know, and then when you're venting about home life or your mum, she already understands. Like you don't have to explain yourself or as a woman, you kind of overthink a lot of things. So when you're telling your friends, you're more of a like, you know, am I overreacting? are my thoughts and feelings right or am I just seeing it differently? Whereas like she already knows, like you just, you've lived the same life essentially. Family, you can't really choose. Like it's just handed to you, whereas like friends you choose. So when you have that inner sister or a family member, like that bond that you'd like, you actively have to go out and find that bond like in life. but it's like handed to you on a silver platter. Like, it was amazing.

5:44Speaker 2:The only thing living apart did for Rachel and Deborah's relationship was strengthen it. Over the years became far less a big and little sister bond and just a pure, true friendship. And as they continued to grow, so too did their family.

5:58Speaker 1:I was 16 when Deborah had her first child and myself and her firstborn were extremely close friends. we were each other's favourite people. She would come and stay with me and I would spend every waking minute with her. And then when I would take leave from work, I would go down and spend a week, two weeks with them. The age gap between myself and Debra is similar between the age gap between myself and her firstborn. So yeah, it's almost like that same relationship that I had with Debra that I have with her firstborn. She would come to me when she had problems, like, you know, and I would be there for her when she needed, like, you know, someone else that's not your mum, you know.

6:49Speaker 1:That favourite auntie, that's what I was. That just added that extra, you know, like I had another new little best friend. Just wanted to be there all the time.

7:01Speaker 2:This brought Rachel and Deborah even closer too. And over this period, Rachel was no longer a kid herself. She grew up, got her own place, a great job and met a man who would change everything. He made her feel loved and safe in a way she'd never had before. Someone who chose her and cared for her and would stay by her side. For the first time in her life at 23, Rachel felt she didn't need her big sister the way she had before. Deborah could now be just her best friend without the added pressure of feeling she needed to take care of her. So when things hit a rough patch in her romantic relationship, Rachel felt now as a proper adult, She had to deal with it on her own.

7:38Speaker 1:Myself and my boyfriend, we had a bit of a rough patch and he kind of needed some time to think about things and that really, like, it put me in a hole, like, I can't even explain. You know, even my housemate, my friend that I lived with, I didn't even talk to her. Even she was like, well, you're just not the same person.

7:58Speaker 3:Are you okay? And I was like, no, I'm not okay. Like, I don't, you know, so I shut off from everyone. It was everyone.

8:04Speaker 1:It wasn't just her, but I think she really took that to heart. I guess she felt irrelevant maybe or because I wasn't mentally okay. We wouldn't talk as much as we usually would, you know, like we had like a chat and she wouldn't respond or I'd get like one-word responses.

8:24Speaker 2:But she brushed it aside. She'd been in a bad place. Maybe she was just overly sensitive. Anyway, things were about to change for the better. Rachel and her boyfriend not only got back together, they got engaged and decided to start their new chapter in a new place. They packed up their lives to start afresh in the one place that had always truly felt like home.

8:44Speaker 1:We actually moved to the town that Deborah and her family lived in and she was so excited, like so happy. I became happier in myself thinking things would go back to normal but then I would message her something and then it would be like a one-word response, you know. Or then she would ask me over for dinner so I'd be like, wicked, like everything's fine. But then the next day I would ask her something and she just wouldn't give me anything, not answering messages or giving me one-word responses to things and not really putting the time aside for me. She would post something on social media, but I wouldn't be tagged in it or I wouldn't be mentioned in it, but everybody else would. For quite a while, I was like, have I done something wrong?

9:43Speaker 1:Is she mad at me? These little things just kept happening, and I was trying to convince myself that she wasn't playing mind games. We rang my mum and my stepdad to tell them that we were engaged. Kelly and Debra were actually at mum's at the time having dinner there was no oh this is so exciting I'm so happy for you it was like oh we knew that you were either pregnant or engaged then because she was acting so cold I didn't feel like I could ask her for help or for any other part in our wedding I didn't get a response from our save the dates I didn't get an RSVP for my hen's party from her her youngest daughter had to have like some.

10:32Speaker 3:Pretty major surgery.

10:34Speaker 1:Like I knew that she was going to Perth for a checkup and then saw this social media post of very vague, but didn't look very good. I was looking after her eldest child at the time at home and I had to chase up and say like, hey, is everything okay? And it was, again, it was just a very unemotive response, very Not giving me much, but just being like, yeah, she needs to have surgery. Then again, there's like the social media posts, the mind games of like thanking everybody else involved, just not me. It was very, very confusing. I did try to confide in her, but my problems were just pushed aside.

11:19Speaker 3:It just wasn't the same relationship, friendship anymore.

11:24Speaker 2:Rachel tried to ask Deborah what was wrong. Had she done something to upset her? Did she want an apology for the time Rachel hadn't been in contact? And importantly, what could she do now to repair whatever it was that had broke it?

11:36Speaker 1:Approached her a few times and been like, hey, is like everything okay? I feel like there's a bit of distance between us and it would always just be like, yep, everything's fine. So then you're like, oh, okay, it's all in my head. But then the next day, it's the same thing again. She just shuts down and won't talk about it, which you think, well, you're an adult. Like, is that not what you do as an adult? We're sisters. We're best friends. We can talk about things. She just wouldn't give me anything. I just didn't really know what to do. I've actively contacted her to say, is everything okay?

12:10Speaker 1:She's told me everything's okay. So it's all in my head. I don't think my husband, he probably didn't really help the situation because he is not interested in drama. Like, He's just the happiest, most relaxed guy. And then he could see how I was with these interactions. And he's just like, well, why are you bothering? I'm like, well, she's my sister. She's my best friend. I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. Like, she's not really talking to me. Have I done something wrong?

12:45Speaker 3:I was just struggling.

12:48Speaker 1:It's like, Not only is it your sister, but it's your best friend. It's your most favourite person in the world, like the person you tell everything to, you know, the person that tells you everything, to go from that to getting nothing, like barely even able to get a hello, how are you? It really messes with your heart and your head.

13:13Speaker 2:The months went on like this, full of confusion and self-doubt. but the constant worry about her relationship with her sister would soon be put on the back burner as Rachel and her husband's lives were about to get a whole lot busier.

13:26Speaker 3:We had twins.

13:28Speaker 1:That is the year that it all just went south. Like, I had twins, Kelly got married, our mum had a hip replacement. Myself and my husband, we moved back home to where he's from. We moved back to the farm, which was near where they live. And then there was just Deborah not being the centre of anyone's world. Deborah is, she has narcissistic tendencies if she's not the centre of your world or the centre of everyone's world. That's where things go. This is the type of person that she is.

14:06Speaker 1:I remember she was in Perth and I was at mum's and I was just, I actually had glandular fever, but I didn't know it at the time. I was so like, run down from being so deep in a hole that I got very sick and I was like bawling my eyes out to her to Debra like telling her like how hard it was at the moment and I was like I have this lump on my neck which was the glandular fever and then she was just like oh I went to the doctor the other day I found a lump and I was like oh okay we're not talking about me anymore like okay I did try to confide in her, but my problems were just pushed aside. But she doesn't see that. It's just always like my problems are worse than your problems. Like you're not allowed to have problems. When we found out we were having twins, I was actually a little bit scared to tell her because maybe I did think that this would be the beginning of the end. When they had kids, they couldn't fall pregnant easily. There was a lot of health concerns, so there was a lot of planning and working around them having babies, whereas when we had babies, it was just, okay, we'll try and have a baby now.

15:28Speaker 3:I knew there would be.

15:31Speaker 1:That underlying jealousy, I guess, from her end. I just always had it in the back of my mind that that would be how she would respond. She was very non-emotive about it. Again, it was like the wedding. There was no like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting. I'm so happy for you. It was like, oh, cool, cool. She would just not give me the excited response that I was hoping for, that you would think would come out of your best friend, which is really sad that I couldn't share that with her either. I feel like At that point, I probably did start to protect myself a little bit more. And maybe I did stop sharing as closely as I used to. You keep trying and trying and trying. And then at one point, you're like, well, what's the point in trying anymore? But then also that guilt goes through your mind where you're like, but we were so close. This should be something that I should want to share with her. She came to the farm once on the way to the city for literally like half an hour to see my girls, to meet my twins.

16:47Speaker 1:They would have been two or three months old when she met them for the first time. Her and her husband are very regimented. They'll come to the city, they have to leave at seven in the morning and they have to arrive at this time and there's no detours.

17:04Speaker 3:We do live.

17:06Speaker 1:On a gravel road, 30km of gravel road. I don't think that she really likes driving as well. So like in my head as well, like I'm always kind of like, oh, but there's this excuse or that excuse. But in hindsight, like there's no excuse. When her eldest daughter had, she was in hospital with like bronchiolitis. I drove seven and a half hours to stay over for one night to spend time with her. When it came to me having my twins, my first baby's, She couldn't even make a drive to come and meet them. As your best friend, your sister, your pseudo-mum, you'd think that she would be the first person in the hospital after they were born.

17:51Speaker 1:And then for it to take, you know, eight weeks for her to actually meet them. And I don't ever remember her being, like, cuddly and smoochy with them. And I don't even know if she really held them.

18:06Speaker 2:While Deborah's detachment hurt and still very much confused Rachel... She tried as best as she could not to let it affect her as it had in the past. More than anything, she didn't have the time or energy. She was in the trenches of raising not one but two babies, which her sister had made pretty clear she wasn't going to help with. So when Rachel was going to be travelling to where Deborah lived, she didn't tell her in advance and make plans to drop in, as she had in times gone by. But she had no idea what this one small choice would cause.

18:34Speaker 3:We live in the middle of nowhere.

18:35Speaker 1:So the nearest shopping centre... Proper, like, Woolworths is where they live, two-hour drive. So I had, you know, six-month-old twins, needed desperately to do a shop. So, yeah, like, was walking through the shops and was walking towards her and we actually, like, walked into each other and I stopped and was like, hi, how are you going? And she just looked at me and said, hi, and kept going and just kept walking. She was really cold and really rude.

19:10Speaker 1:And I just kind of was like, what just happened? From the moment I saw her, I knew it was very clear that she wasn't happy that I was there. She hadn't been the first person that I told that I was there. The next time that I knew that I was going to be there, I was like, right, I'll make sure that I tell her, I'll make sure. Let's book in a time and we'll have morning tea. And then I actually think that she had blocked me Because, you know, when you can see that your message has been sent and then it has been read, like it didn't even come up saying that it had been sent.

19:43Speaker 1:So I think she had gone home and blocked me. I just couldn't get in touch with her from then on. I wouldn't get any responses to messages, phone calls or anything like that. Like it was a complete like cut off. She just disappeared. So I thought I'd leave it and wait for her to reach out and make an effort and that eight years later that has not happened.

20:08Speaker 2:I wish I had more of an explanation for you, dear listeners, but there isn't one. After the cold encounter at the supermarket, Rachel chose to put her focus into her young family at home. and ignore whatever was going on with Deborah. Months passed, then more, but nothing. The whole thing felt so toxic, and Rachel had spent so many hours and so much energy dealing with the negativity of the situation, she didn't want to fix it if Deborah didn't. And it seemed she didn't.

20:35Speaker 1:She hasn't spoken to me for near on eight years. I kind of blame this whole situation on my mental health issues. if someone so special and so close to you can walk away like that, like, what type of person is, am I, that that's so easy for someone to do? You know, like, I just, I struggle with it a lot still. Eight years later, it's still like a battle in my head. My auntie has made these comments about me being the favourite. I don't know if that's where it all stems from. And I was like, hang on a minute, like, But I'm also like, she was like a teenager, like a preteen when I was born.

21:19Speaker 1:I'm not the favorite. I was just solely reliant on other people. I feel quite unfairly portrayed if that's truly like where her problems lie. I'm always constantly struggling with, am I a shit person? Like, did I do this?

21:38Speaker 3:And then I'm like, well, hang on a minute. We're adults.

21:41Speaker 1:We could have had a conversation earlier. I could have apologised, I could have given you my side of the story, but I was never given that opportunity. So I'm, like, slowly starting to learn that, no, like, it's not my fault, but you still have days where you have those doubts. This is a person that, in reality, like, she should love you no matter what, but then you have that added extra where you guys have chosen each other as... your most important, most favourite people, to feeling not that important and not being made to feel like that favourite person anymore.

22:23Speaker 3:And it's a really hard thing to deal with, like emotionally and mentally.

22:31Speaker 2:One thing that did help ease Rachel's mind, though, even if just a little, is that she wasn't the only one Deborah inexplicably turned her back on.

22:40Speaker 1:There was a few years that went by and she actually cut off my mum for a fair bit there. And again, I don't even think my mum really knew. I don't think Kelly hears from her very much either, unless it's to make Deborah look kind of good. She still sends the obligatory Facebook message.

23:02Speaker 3:On birthdays and whatnot.

23:04Speaker 1:She would always make the time and she would always be there constantly for Deborah to see her and her family when they came to Perth but there was never any reciprocation and then yeah she slowly as well just realized well hang on a minute then she's not making the effort for me so I'm going to stop none of our kids like none of mum's grandkids have all been in the same room at the same time sorry I think I might get a bit sad here but Kelly lost her son a few years ago.

23:34Speaker 3:So There will never be that opportunity for all of those kids to be together. And I just, I feel for the kids, you know, like I grew up so closely with my nieces and my kids were never given that opportunity even to grow up with their cousins. We've definitely had those situations where you'd think family would come together. These relationships could be mended. And they just haven't. So I don't really see us ever becoming close again. And I don't think that I really want it to.

24:15Speaker 1:There's like the silver lining, like when you look back and you look at all these things and then you see the way she treats people.

24:23Speaker 3:And I know that I don't want to be like that.

24:26Speaker 1:And I try to see the positives in people and in situations rather than just directly going to the negatives and like the woe is me and My life's so hard and my life's harder than you. I just try to be a good person, I guess, and a happy, positive person. I have a lot of great friends in my life. I've got a lot of great people, a lot of supportive, loving people. It's actually taken me a very long time to actually become confident in myself and be able to make friends because obviously it shatters your confidence a little bit when someone like that can just walk away from you and you really do question who you are and the type of person you are and like why would these people want to be friends with me if I'm such a horrible person that someone like your own sister best friend can walk away so easily.

25:24Speaker 1:It's only really the last couple of years that I've felt confident and comfortable to put myself out there and actually make friends. I go through periods of anger and sadness but ultimately like I just focus on the people around me that do make the effort and show me love and save my love for them. I have had a few people that are like oh but it's family I'm like well that that might be so but I don't know how to make you understand how much hurt she's put me through and other people but also now I'm at a point where I'm protecting my myself as well my heart and my head and if I don't care if we share blood or not like if you mess with my head or my heart I can't like I can't do that to myself or my my kids and my husband because when I'm in a bad way they suffer too I don't believe in that blood is thicker than water because sometimes it really isn't that doesn't mean I wish any ill health on her.

26:31Speaker 3:I just hope that she's happy and if not.

26:36Speaker 1:I hope that she can get the help that she needs to be happy because I'm pretty happy in my life.

26:56Speaker 2:Everyone Has an Ex Best Friend is a Minty Media production and proudly part of the Mamma Mia Network. This interview was conducted and the episode written by me, Georgia Love, and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a story you'd like to share, email everyonehasanex at mintymedia.com.au. You can support us by following the show in your favourite podcast app and leaving a five-star review.