The internet thinks we’re doing motherhood wrong

0:00Speaker 1:Heyat's las quick one before we get into it. Like many of you, we are in the depths of school holidays, so we're rerunning a couple of our absolute favorites for you. If you miss these the first time around, you're in for a treat. And if you didn't trust me, they more than hold up for a second.

0:13Speaker 2:Listen, enjoy, and just a quick note from my laptop microphone with Spider Man playing in the background.

0:20Speaker 3:This show used to be called Witching Hour, so.

0:23Speaker 2:You'll see just how far the production value has come from this episode to the ones we now produce today.

0:30Speaker 3:But as Law said, I think the conversation still holds.

0:33Speaker 1:This podcast was recorded on the lands of the boon Warong people of the Kulin Nation, the land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters, always was, and always will be Aboriginal Land.

0:46Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Witching Hour, the show by Ready or Not, the looks at what's exciting, delighting, intriguing, and frustrating us when it comes to making work.

0:55Speaker 3:Well, I'm Lou.

0:57Speaker 1:And I'm Loz. Kicking things off with a good news story. I actually saw a very funny start this week that said means nothing in relation to work or motherhood really, but it did say if you leave parties without saying goodbye, you can save two days per year. Research suggests that average goodbyes at a party take around two to three minutes per person. At a gathering with ten to twenty people, you're looking at twenty to sixty minutes just to say bye by multiple events per year, and skipping farewells could save you up to forty eight hours annually or two full days.

1:32Speaker 2:That does relate to mums, because I will take anything I can get, just quickly. I got a little bit drunk on Saturday night and people are at my house, and I smoke smoke bombed from my own house and went to bed without saying. I was so tired. I couldn't keep up with conversation. Hads was there, and I thought, even though it was all the girlies and none of his mates, I thought, I'm sneaking off.

1:54Speaker 3:I'm so tired.

1:55Speaker 1:You do it, You go go. You've just saved yourself probably what twenty minutes. It's time to wrap things up.

2:02Speaker 3:And kicking them out, So I just left. I love that lossy.

2:09Speaker 2:You mentioned that Siena hadn't been listening to you tell me what happened on the hearing test.

2:13Speaker 3:I want to know all about it.

2:14Speaker 2:For anyone that thinks, like genuinely that maybe they're not listening is more than a not listening problem.

2:20Speaker 1:Okay, So just to preface it by saying, I booked center in for a hearing test, and when I went to actually get the hearing test for Siena, they said eighty percent of people that book hearing tests wanting to do it before either school starts kinder starts. More as like a I don't want to say tickbox thing, but more as a peace of mind thing. So even if you're like, oh, my child's pretty good, if you have any concerns, couldn't recommend more highly just to put your mind at ease. Secondly, I just think that the school holidays really got to me this time around. They were really long and over the course of like, oh, it's six weeks, eight weeks, I just don't even know how long.

3:02Speaker 1:It was a freaking long time. Sienna would ask me multiple times, what did you say? What I can't hear you? Can you turn the tava up? I can't hear it? And I was like, okay, She's actually usd so many times now that I'm getting to the point of frustration. I'm just going to book in a hearing test. Went to the hearing test, took three minutes, was so quick. They were so great with kids. There are no problems.

3:27Speaker 3:So the problems are in the house, not in the yst.

3:32Speaker 1:Problems.

3:34Speaker 2:Do you sit down with Siena and get the prognosis and you go, Now, your hearing is great?

3:38Speaker 3:So what the fuck are we going to do about communication? Sweetie, stylist? I know you're only four, but we need to have a talk.

3:45Speaker 1:Yeah, And I said to write my husband Ry. I was like, okay, so there's nothing wrong me. He's like, all right, so we just spent one hundred and sixty five bucks for nothing. I'm like, no, not for nothing. The sanity for me knowing that I wasn't going insane because I genuinely thought to myself, does she have a hearing problem? At least now I can confidently say no, it's not not a specific issue. There's nothing wrong with her ears or her hearing. It's just selective.

4:10Speaker 3:Yeah, it's very selective. Once the TV out wants the mummy down.

4:15Speaker 2:Imagine if our kids had volume buttons for us, I'd.

4:21Speaker 3:Just go back at the kitchen, my mummy.

4:23Speaker 2:I want you to cook for me, but I don't want you to talk exactly right.

4:27Speaker 1:And I also want to just follow up on last episode where I complained about parts because so many people have kindly suggested alternative studios, of which I have already tried it. Three of your recommendations and I'm trying another.

4:37Speaker 3:Guess so efficient you are nuts? How have you already gone to three?

4:41Speaker 1:Because I couldn't help myself. I feel like when people recommend something, and also people should know this about me, I jump on stuff immediately, like I don't have any rationale when it comes to trying stuff. If someone gives me a recommendation, I'm like, oh, try it, that's all I need, just a quick little you should do.

4:58Speaker 2:So if someone says I went to the best sex club on the weekend, you're all right, Well, I.

5:02Speaker 1:Guess I give it a crack.

5:05Speaker 3:Pregnant with my third what could possibly go wrong? Oh my god?

5:09Speaker 1:Maybe not that far. But thank you for all your recommendations. Some have been excellent. I have a front runner at the moment, but I'm going to try another two and then I feel like five is enough for me. There was lots, so sorry be thanks so many.

5:22Speaker 2:What do you think was the I feel like universal Practice was one of the most mentioned.

5:27Speaker 3:What else was most mentioned? Do you remember bump in Maulvin?

5:30Speaker 1:I think was bump in Maulvin was mentioned. I did try their be Active was also mentioned. I've also tried their Core plus was another one, yeah, which I tried the other day, which was really good. And then another one called Bumps. There's been heaps, like, there's so many, and peaches I think another.

5:47Speaker 3:One patrees, Yes, that was another thing.

5:49Speaker 1:Yes, so there's quite a few. I sadly won't be able to do all of them, because what.

5:54Speaker 3:Do you mean, You've got so much time on your hands with.

5:56Speaker 2:You you're one day a week ready or not, job, your two children, and your pregnancy.

6:02Speaker 3:Why aren't you fitting that in?

6:04Speaker 1:I don't know, Like I would actually love to trial them all just so that I can offer other people advice and be like this, I was not good, this time is great, go to this instructor whatever. But I have tried quite a lot, So I've got two more to go and then I'll make my final decision.

6:16Speaker 3:Maybe come back to us.

6:17Speaker 2:We won't rank them, because I'm sure they're all great businesses, but just come back to us with what personally for you ends up being the one. Okay, Okay, next time I will So today, what are we talking about? When will we stop judging the mums? I've seen a bit of discourse on my Instagram this week about dms coming in to mums very unsolicited. They might be mentioning that things have been a little bit hard lately. They might be mentioning that they're wanting to rip out their eyeballs a bit. Most of it is said in jest, a bit of a laugh, bit of fun. We all love our kids, but every now and then it's hard. Let the mum speak what I say, why can't we stop judging them? I will give you a few stories, and then I'll ask you why you still think that we do this so much and what can we do about it?

7:02Speaker 2:And then secondly, you're bringing to me the hidden bias in job applications, why women are being turned off by the questions we don't ask men.

7:11Speaker 3:Take it away, my friend.

7:13Speaker 1:Or you're taking it away. I know that we often do this, We often do this, but in fact, today.

7:19Speaker 2:You ate it when I do this, take it away. I am friends with myself, so take it away. My friend Planning from Little Label, a children's and women's wear brand, recently posted a real In it, she shows the utter chaos that is being a working mum during the school holidays and make some jokes about wanting to get a one way ticket to Fiji I would like one also, and wanting to rebout her eyeballs. It's linked in the show notes, so go there for further context. But it's just meant for a bit of fun. Someone came into her DMS with some unsolicited advice saying that she should be a bit more grateful.

7:55Speaker 3:And while some.

7:56Speaker 2:Of the people that did come into a DMS were able to have roba conversations and offer reasons why they think she shouldn't share it, some people were just downright mean. Another example came up in my social media stories very shortly after this from Bridget Gaiale. She's been interviewed on Ready or Not before, and her first Instagram story was a selfie of her child cuddling her, saying that her daughter sort of didn't want a bar of her she'd picked her up from daycare or wherever, and her daughter didn't really want much from her she had in her DM someone responding saying, I hope you can repair your relationship with your daughter. That would never happen with me and my daughter. Bridget and I went on to have a conversation about this, saying as if that person has never had their child speak badly to them or not win a bar of them, and that.

8:43Speaker 3:It's all just part and parcel.

8:45Speaker 2:The next day she was absolutely loving her mum sick as we know, light and.

8:48Speaker 3:Shade and motherhood in all these situations.

8:51Speaker 2:Third example happened I reckon about a year ago, Lozzie, when I told you you sent me a video of Sienna just having one of those windy days the way kids always do.

8:59Speaker 3:Yeah, and you sent me a video of you walking down the street.

9:02Speaker 2:Me like, oh look, I'm looking forward to getting in the office today. For anyone that knows you, you absolutely love being a mum. You'll always talk about the positivity. But on that day you needed a break. When I told you to whack that on the radio ho Arts story, someone replied, poor child, I'm unfollowing, and we well, you mostly had a laugh about it. I was upset because I take a thing to heart and this happens all the time. These are not three ISO loaded incidents, but it did spark something inside of me. And my question for you is why do we still judge mums so much?

9:36Speaker 2:And how do we stop doing it? Well, I don't know the answer to either. Mat we all do it, and anybody that says they don't would be lying. I think we're all trying to do our best at doing it less. Obviously, judgment creates conversation when you are judging someone, When you have a strong opinion on something, when something bothers, you speak about it, whether it's in a positive or a negative light, creates connection because there'll be people that agree with you and people that don't. And more importantly, it creates conversation. It gives you something to talk about.

10:10Speaker 1:Where I think society is really polarizing is genuinely about topics like parenting or mums and what we should and shouldn't be doing. Because traditionally there was this view that everybody's still trying to break or a stigma that like being a mom means you're like really nurturing and warm and always available to your children, and that's kind of a concept that I think has become more so prevalent butt.

10:38Speaker 2:Because there's more options, but like society hasn't caught up yet, Like is it a s yes, do you think?

10:43Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really odd. It's so bad, it's really sad. Back in the day, Like I remember my parents when I was younger, I used to go out for dinner with them and they would genuinely just ignore me, and I would sit under the table, like looking at chewing gum on the table, sometimes eating it when I was like four, and just like coloring in under the table, and that was acceptable. No one ever said to them, oh, my gosh, that it is so disgraceful, Like how could you take your children out and not engage with them?

11:10Speaker 1:Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I had fun, they had fun. If I was to do that today, the amount of looks that I would get, I'm not putting my child in an unsafe environment under a table. They're safe. Okay, maybe they're eating some stale old chewy, but they're not going to die.

11:23Speaker 3:Oh they've done that before probably.

11:25Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, But the amount of looks that I would get would be out of control. And I don't know if it's social media or like what it is, but it's like there's this heightened sense of judgment towards everything, not just that but everything.

11:38Speaker 2:It's almost like the blessing and the curse of more choice because we are in this sticky period where we're getting more choice, but we're like in a transition period. I feel like women and mums had less choice back in the day for the vast majority. Do you think almost that there's so much choice means our decisions feel so loaded because we're always.

11:56Speaker 3:Trying to get it right, but we don't actually know what is right.

12:00Speaker 1:Everything's right, and everything's wrong.

12:03Speaker 3:Yes, that is so true.

12:05Speaker 1:And for all these people that say things like, oh, you know, my child would never do that, maybe they wouldn't. But what I will say is that at some point in your life you are going to face a situation with your child where they disagree with what you are doing, unless you run a militant operation at home, of which there's all sorts of problems with, right.

12:28Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like that society would be like a child never backlashes against.

12:31Speaker 1:You, exactly. So there's like two different views on the same behavior. Where I think I find it, honestly bizarre, is the courage of people to leave negative comments so publicly and openly. I would never.

12:49Speaker 2:Imagine dming a mum that you didn't agree with looszi, like, unless I would just never about like leaving a gun in her child's bedroom, which even still I wouldn't respond, But you know, unless it was a very obvious, blome, black and white version of like, you know, negligence, I'm not going there.

13:04Speaker 3:And even then I'm still probably not going there.

13:06Speaker 1:I find it unbelievable that people feel so empowered and so politically correct that their opinion is the rolid yeah, and they really stick by it. Like if someone's posting a reel of their day and what their life looks like, and you're navigating the complexities of having a tantrum and whatever, let them be. If you don't like the content, don't comment, just go to.

13:28Speaker 3:The next Oh a way.

13:30Speaker 2:I have something else that semi relates to this, and this is that Mama Maya put up a piece that I saw that the title was along the lines of if this feels like the longest school holidays you've ever had, it is because they have been the longest, Like maybe it was a few days longer than last year or whatever, compared to you know, in relation to how the days of the week are full, and maybe it's like, you know, two days longer.

13:52Speaker 3:Whatever.

13:53Speaker 2:Anyway, I didn't really read the article, but I was interested in the comments because there were a lot, and I noticed something batter within myself. So a lot of the people wrote back, very peacefully, just saying they actually haven't felt long. To me, I am dreading them ending and that's lovely, that's like a nice opinion.

14:11Speaker 3:No backlash tied to it.

14:13Speaker 2:Then there was, of course the people that are like, reality check, if you have kids, you're going to have to parent them, like don't hate spending time with your child, or don't even bother having children.

14:23Speaker 3:Now that's what we're going to do.

14:25Speaker 2:Which is absolutely not about But I find myself, even though I haven't entered school holidays yet, I feel like by the end of school holidays, I will be one of those moms that's like, WHOA, love you so much, had the best time with you, but I also need you back in school.

14:40Speaker 3:Now.

14:40Speaker 2:Why did I get triggered by even the peaceful versions of people saying, oh no, I've really enjoyed this, Like the ones they weren't being nasty, they weren't being judgment or they were just saying, oh, no, I've loved this period.

14:51Speaker 3:Why does even that trigger me?

14:52Speaker 2:Because I think it comes back to potentially me thinking that's what makes a perfect mum as opposed to wanting your kids to go back to school.

15:00Speaker 3:What did you think got on?

15:01Speaker 1:No, I think you've nailed it. That's exactly right. Innately, you're gonna feel like some form of guilty in some way, and it could be like I catch myself sometimes I'm like, oh my god, it seems just driving me mad today, you know, like yesterday I had a really long day with the kids, Like, yeah, it's one day, I get it. And it was a really nice morning. But then in the afternoon, Zay found a tomato sauce bottle. He literally, I don't even know how it happened. He squeezed into the storiere. Yeah, there was just everywhere, And all I could think to myself is I took my eyes off you for two minutes to unload the laundry and hang it on the line, and now I have to clean this Crap's like the next ten minutes. It's so fuch to use carve it in soores. I'm like, don't touch anything.

15:46Speaker 1:And in that split moment, I was like, oh, this is so frustrating. And I did catch myself and I spoke to a girlfriend. I'm like, oh my god, I'm just so peeved, like I've fucking got tomato sauce everywhere. She's like, yeah, kids are just hard, man. I'm like yes, And in that moment, that's what I need somebody to say to me. Kids can be really hard. I love being a mum, but if that friend it turned around a meeting laws, you should be grateful. You've got amazing kids. Mate.

16:09Speaker 1:I know I am every day. That's a given. I just need to vent and everybody's entitled to do that, whether it's about your kids, your work, your body. Sometimes I don't know the chair that you're sitting in, whatever it might be. We are humans. We have fluctuations in mood and tempereds in needs. Like, come on, let's just give each other a little bit of grace and stop the negative comments when people do say something that maybe isn't picture perfect.

16:35Speaker 2:I think that is a beautiful way to end this segment, is that kids can be hard, and you are okay if you don't love every single moment. So if you crawl to the end of the finish line of those school holidays, you do bloody good.

16:48Speaker 3:Mum, well done.

16:50Speaker 1:The hidden bias in job applications Why women are being turned off by the questions we don't ask men. A recent news story made headlines when a female up of the Defense Force was asked about her menstrual cycle as part of the recruitment process. I see your face. Yes, while this is extreme, it raises a larger issue. So the subtle and not so subtle ways the application process still isn't designed with women in mind. Now, I want to say, yes, this is an extreme situation, and of course I'm very aware that there are some professions that do need like a medical documental medical records when you apply.

17:29Speaker 1:I am slightly confused by the menstrual cycle thing.

17:35Speaker 3:Is it an interesting one?

17:36Speaker 2:I'll just quickly almost go against my initial reaction. Part of me wonders, is it like we want the workforce to understand more what happens with menstrual cycles and menopause and all of those things.

17:49Speaker 3:Is there any way in which this is a positive I don't.

17:51Speaker 1:Know unless they're doing training based on the phase that you're in of your mental instrumental.

17:58Speaker 2:Sitting you in a classroom while you're during your period, but then when you're lout tealing.

18:03Speaker 3:You are out there running. Like, if it's something like that, maybe you can get around it. But you're going to tell me more.

18:10Speaker 1:It's definitely odd. And I will say, in this particular instance, this person was applying for a photography job, like, how is this relevant taking photos? I don't really understand, but it has raised the questions.

18:23Speaker 3:So a photography job in the Defense Force? Is that what you're saying? Yes, okay, that doesn't make any sense.

18:29Speaker 1:Yeah, it's odd.

18:30Speaker 3:I'm thinly stop lining, like you are out there fighting. Yeah.

18:34Speaker 1:And in her defense, the Defense Force had said, it's just a stock standard template. Yeah, get it mate, we're in twenty twenty five now.

18:43Speaker 3:Yeah.

18:43Speaker 1:Like the application process, Yeah, if that's for specific people have that question, like in specific job ads or in specific job descriptions. But you don't need to be having that for everyone, Like, come on, this is in the nineteen eighties. You have the ability, yeah, to adopt your PD or your recruitment process, not adopt to adapt your application requirements to the candidate like that's just rubbish, But it had me thinking more about the bias in recruitment.

19:15Speaker 1:So invasive questions aren't the only issue. Let's talk about the subtle gender bias that women face during the recruitment process, for example, assumptions about their availability due to children or maternity leave, etc. Studied by McKinsey and Company found that women are at one point two times more likely to be judged on their personal attributes during interviews, while men are more likely to be judged on their professional experience. Interesting one, so the impact of poorly designed applications on female candidates. How a lack of flexibility and job applications, especially in terms of hours, remote work, and interview times, often leads to women to opt out of applying. So unless the job says like flexi or you know in your case how you're looking specifically for part time, many people won't even apply. I know that we've talked about it, saying you can negotiate at the end, but so many women are like no, that's just an absolute no go, which means we're not getting the right people in the right jobs. And according to research by catalysts. Women are more likely than men to quit the hiring process early

20:17Speaker 1:if they feel that the company's culture isn't family friendly or inclusive. I would add a third one. There often what happens is there is that unseen. And the other thing that I would say is that we know that in the recruitment process, women are far less likely to negotiate salary if a band isn't given. So we're already doing it a service to ourselves, and so as a recruitment process, what could we do to make this better? This is just a list that I've put together, my own lists of ways that we could make the job application process more inclusive and supportive, primarily of female applicants.

20:54Speaker 1:Maternity leave transparency. I don't know about Ulu, but after I had Sienna and I was considering another job, I found it really, really difficult to access companies' maternity leaf policies, so which at the time, if I'm honest, was a really really big factor for me. I want a job security. I also wanted to make sure that if I did get pregnant within the next two years, they had a policy that would support my return to work and also pay me while I was on parental leave, and I found that very very few organizations have this openly available.

21:26Speaker 3:Yeah, it almost.

21:27Speaker 2:Should be public knowledge, like it should be on a public sort of record.

21:31Speaker 1:Well, I find it strange too, because for those organizations that do have a parental leaf policy, even if it's six weeks, two weeks, three weeks, whatever it might be, is it not something that you want to promote.

21:41Speaker 3:Yeah.

21:41Speaker 2:I feel like they do offer in job ads, but you're not across the board, you're saying it.

21:46Speaker 1:No. They normally say unless it's a large organization that has like sixteen weeks, so their top of the range. If they're a smaller organization that offer less than sixteen weeks, maybe they offer four.

21:57Speaker 2:Yes, they won't mention the creation, they'll just mention the way something. You're totally right, I've seen that.

22:02Speaker 1:He yes, and four is better than nothing. It also depends on your financial situation, right, So sometimes I was kind of thinking to myself, Okay, I don't need sixteen weeks, Like, yeah, that would be great, but I probably don't want to work for the likes of, you know, that large organization. But I would really like something so that I've got some form of income that I could take it half pay for an extended period of weeks. So if companies that I was interested at the time advertised, we've got four weeks of paid parental leave with a likelihood to review this and increase it, right, I mean they're not promising anything, but they're suggesting that there. It's front of mind for that organization. I would have probably applied for it.

22:41Speaker 2:Yeah, more visibility, just give me when you're doing so much digging.

22:45Speaker 1:Also, you to ask a question like that in an interview process, or even if you're the preferred applicant, Hey, what's your maternity leave policy?

22:51Speaker 3:You will it because you're a confident person. So even you don't do it, Yeah, because you never know. That's the scary thing.

22:57Speaker 2:It's like we want to say in twenty twenty five that you should be able to but you never know what sort of hiring manager that person is and what they're thinking deep down. It's so unfair, but it's another form of the unconscious bias that females face often.

23:10Speaker 1:Yeah, and the flexibility now is and location. I mean, we've heart done about this a freeing million times, but as we know, many women are still balancing caregiving responsibilities. And flexible hours or remote work options can be a game changer for encouraging those people to apply for a role. When companies aren't advertising it or aren't even suggesting that the work can be done for the right applicant remotely or on a part time basis, they're excluding half the candidate pool totally.

23:39Speaker 2:Like, I'm not even applying for jobs that say they're on site five days a week because I'm like, there are too many things that I need to negotiate.

23:47Speaker 3:I want to try and get a three.

23:48Speaker 2:Day a week role and it has to be a hybrid model, So that immediately just makes me go, there's literally too much to negotiate.

23:55Speaker 3:Yeah, there's no way they're going to give you the job. I don't even apply.

23:58Speaker 1:Why would you put in there open to negotiation for the right candidate, Yes, it's easy.

24:03Speaker 2:All you're doing then, is getting a bigger talent, bigger poolge to draw from.

24:08Speaker 1:Yeah. The other thing I've seen in time and time again that I think is really prohibiting women from applying for roles is progression paths or learning and development opportunities. I mean, women often feel that career progression can be slow or less transparent. Due to maternity leave or family commitments, if the employer clearly outlined potential career paths and the company's approach to career progression for all employees. So I'm not just saying women, including those who may take time off atterney leave or family care, this would make life so much easier, like so much so many organizations.

24:40Speaker 3:Of how you grow Yeah, changes.

24:43Speaker 1:So many people have a stipend at their company that if they actually promote it, you'd be like, oh, how good I can access like a stipend of one thousand dollars a year as a benefit to put towards career progression within the company. Or maybe they say, you know, we're doing an intensive training program at the eighteen month mark to help you develop and grow into other areas of the business that maybe of interest. Hello, it's so great.

25:04Speaker 2:For camaraderie those things too, Like I remember where we had a day with two Channel nine journalists doing reporting to camera training at Cricket Australia and it was so beneficial and it still stands out as like one of my best learning days. So it's not even just about what it does for your career wise, it's really good for like getting your group together and having a bit of camaraderie outside of just drinking together, Like it's a whole another experience that you can bring to your team, and it makes you feel like you're growing within your team.

25:30Speaker 2:It makes you feel welcome there and like they want you to stay there, and therefore you want to stay there.

25:36Speaker 1:Yeah, and my other big thing, which I know I harp on about twenty four to seven, is that return to work peace. If you are a large organization with a female workforce, even if it's twenty percent of your workforce anyone, and you need to grow that target of the number of females. I find it so fascinating to look at videos about women who have returned to work at that organization, or a positive testimonial. I am a marketing director, I have three young children. This workplace was so supportive on my return to work. It's enabled me to enhance my career in the following areas. Like imagine how powerful that would be.

26:14Speaker 2:Yeah, you love a bit of a video testimonial, don't you.

26:17Speaker 1:I mean I do, but I also think, but I see what you're saying.

26:20Speaker 2:It brings human to the workplace too, Like we're all humans let's share the stories.

26:25Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely, and so many women in the workplace are mums, and yet the stories that we tell usually are of like cadets, like people just starting out in their careers. Don't talk about a graduate program. I'm like, dude, I'm looking for a job with three children as in, but that ain't going to suit me. I love that you're offering all this development when you're eighteen, but what about when you're returning or switching careers, what are you offering?

26:46Speaker 2:Then it's an interesting one too, because if you're a dad in a mum dad relationship or even a dad dad relationship, if you're the secondary caregiver and you are someone that wants to be more present at home and to share more of the load, you're also going to get better dads applying for jobs too, because they're going to see how family friendly you are and that you've got this drive to acknowledge that families exist and that you need to cater for that.

27:13Speaker 3:So it's actually probably going to increase your talent for both male and fit that.

27:17Speaker 1:Yeah, one hundred percent, couldn't agree more. The whole process needs to be overhauled. We need to be not asking women about their bodies in the interview process. That's just an absolute given. And if there are benefits for women, even if they're small, even if you think, oh, I don't know if this will get me over the line, likelihood is at the moment, from what I've seen, very few companies are doing producing external campaigns that really encourage women to apply. So by doing a small change by instead of having a graduate speak about how great the graduate program is, perhaps you could have a mum that talks about has supported the environment was when they returned to work, would be so much more of a flex particularly at a senior level. You're wanting senior women in leadership positions. How are we targeting but women age thirty plus?

28:09Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly right.

28:11Speaker 2:I would love to know in our DMS or email us at Hello, at ready or not dot au what has stood out to anyone as a mum applying for a job. If you have a good story about something that stood out to you that made you think that you would be really welcome in that workplace, we would love to hear. We need to speak to the mums. That's the way to get them into environments that are inclusive. I love this, Lossy I think that wraps us up. We're quite quick today. Good for us Short.

28:39Speaker 1:And Sweet at my friend. It has been a busy week, so this is a good thing.

28:44Speaker 2:I actually am very happy with Short and Sweet because I just came off from a recording with Beyond the Bumps so I'm going to be Beyond the Bumps soon, which.

28:51Speaker 1:Is very Oh yes, of course, a.

28:53Speaker 3:Longtime friend of mine.

28:55Speaker 2:We went to primary school together, literally started prep together, so.

28:58Speaker 3:I've known her for a long time now. Really fun chatting to them.

29:01Speaker 2:We chatted for ages because we had a few technical glitches, but we were recording for an hour and forty five minutes.

29:06Speaker 3:So you and I going short today. It's good because I think everyone could use less of my voice as if.

29:14Speaker 1:If you have loved listening to today's episode, please leave us a positive review or just any review and follow us on Bready on our dot pode next week