Julia Busuttil Nishimura on figuring it out as she goes

0:00Speaker 1:This podcast was recorded on the lands of the boon Warong people of the Kulin Nation. The land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters always was, and always will be Aboriginal land.

0:19Speaker 2:Julia Busutu Nishimura may have five cookbooks, a children's book, a career as a teacher, and three children under her belt, but, as you're about to find out, just like the rest of us, she's still figuring out this.

0:33Speaker 3:Whole motherhood and career thing as she goes.

0:36Speaker 2:And honestly, what a relief it is to know that one of the country's most loved and accomplished cookbook authors is just like us underneath it all, just trying to make work work as best she can. She had a massive freak out when she was pregnant with her third baby last year. She couldn't see how she was going to make a new cookbook and a new baby.

0:58Speaker 3:Work in amongst it all.

0:59Speaker 2:And after her first baby she went through an intense period of loneliness. In her own words, postpartum hit her like a ton of bricks, And here she tells us all about it. From what first time motherhood looked like at twenty six compared to third time motherhood a decade later, from her career as a teacher to a chance meeting at a farmer's market that would change her life. Today, we're so lucky to go on the incredible journey of Julia of food, family and what she's found out along the way.

1:31Speaker 3:So let's get into it. I'm Lucinda.

1:34Speaker 2:This is ready or not, and here's the humble, wholesome and hard working Julia Busutu Nishimura. Julia, when we were emailing, something that really stood out to me was that you said you had a bit of a freak out last.

1:51Speaker 3:Year when you were pregnant with your third child.

1:54Speaker 2:I found this particularly interesting because I look at someone like you who's established in their career.

2:00Speaker 3:Your kids were turning into.

2:01Speaker 2:I guess, their next phase of really becoming children, and I.

2:04Speaker 3:Thought, she's got it all figured out. Tell us what happened.

2:08Speaker 4:I mean, I feel like when you're pregnant anyway, it's such a vulnerable time. And yeah, I had a ten year old and a five year old, and I think in a way it's been I mean, my career just keeps growing, essentially, and I think I was kind of thinking about the higher that you have to fall, the kind of scary it gets, or got for me. And so I was pregnant with my third I was really unwell, Like I just had such bad.

2:33Speaker 5:Morning sickness for four months, and I just felt, I don't know, I just felt really worried.

2:38Speaker 4:I was like, what if this is the whole pregnancy, what's next year going to look like? I just felt the uncertainty for me is kind of what sets off my anxiety. And so I had a really really big freak out about my career. I went and saw a business coach Holiga.

2:54Speaker 3:Yes, it's been on the pod. I love it. I feel like the third guest to shout her out, let's be the going.

3:00Speaker 4:And I just really scared, I suppose of what the future looked like and how I would get it all done. You know, I had a book to write, I had a kid's book coming out. I had all this work to do, and I just didn't feel like doing any of it. Yeah. I was really scared, honestly about what my career was going to look like with a third kid.

3:17Speaker 5:And it's all worked out, which is great, but I took a lot of work.

3:20Speaker 4:You know. I went and I saw a psychiatrist, I saw a business coach. I really took a lot of time to kind of like I spoke openly about it with lots of friends. I was just like grabbing for advice from everyone who had three kids number one and who was self employed doing it.

3:34Speaker 2:So when you talk about sort of not wanting to do the work that you had laid out ahead of you, was any of this sort of existential thing that can happen to us through the process of pregnancy and postpartum or did it all sort of come back to the fact that you just weren't feeling well at all.

3:49Speaker 4:I think a huge part of it was I wasn't feeling well, and you know, my work is so food related, so having toat and test recipes and all I wanted to eat it was like jats, crackers and vegima on toe.

4:04Speaker 3:That's like your next cookbook. It's truly though.

4:08Speaker 5:I just I was so unmotivated.

4:10Speaker 4:But in the same breath, I was also Once I started to feel better, I could see the clouds clearing, and I was like, I want to get as much work as I can done. I want to enjoy this postpartum period. So I was you know, I had these kind of these two experiences in pregnancy, but I did. I was really worried about, you know, how I would make it work. It would I have enough you know, financial stability to take a bit of Matt Lee. Yeah, it was a very different kind of experience to when I had my first two, which was you know, ten and six years prior.

4:41Speaker 5:I was still a school.

4:42Speaker 4:Teacher, I had a job to go back to, I had more of a set maternity leave, so it was just like a very It was actually my first kind of time as a full time author having a baby, and you.

4:52Speaker 2:Didn't have that public facing and extra financial pressure back then too.

4:57Speaker 3:I'm sure there was still pressures, but it was a different type.

4:59Speaker 5:Of different type.

5:00Speaker 4:And I mean when I had Yuki, i had my second book was about to come out, but it was even six years ago. I feel like social media was even different then, and my career was very different then. And yeah, it just as it grows, I think, yeah, I do feel more pressure to my guest be performing, and you know, like economically, like things get more, you know, there's more pressures just in general. The kids get bigger and there's more work on more books, more deadlines, and yeah, it was the first time I really experienced this kind of like sickness in pregnancy. The other two times I was just like fine the whole time.

5:35Speaker 3:That would have been a bit of a shock then too.

5:37Speaker 4:Yeah, huge shock, you know I thought. Third time, I was like, it's going to be the same. Definitely wasn't.

5:43Speaker 2:That is a good segue to take it back then, so then we can move forward. Before the world knew as Julia Ostro the cookbook author, you were an Italian teacher, I was an Italian teacher, and you had a pretty chance meeting at a farmer's market.

5:57Speaker 3:I don't know if that story is like I.

5:59Speaker 2:Just missed it, Like this probably isn't as wild as story as I think it is, but I'd never heard that, so I'd loved to hear firstly, what you were up to career wise before cookbook authoring became to be your thing.

6:11Speaker 3:And secondly, all about that chance meeting.

6:14Speaker 4:I mean, so, yeah, I studied Italian and politics at university, like I wanted to be in the un that.

6:19Speaker 5:Was kind of my trick.

6:20Speaker 3:So cool.

6:21Speaker 4:But by the way that I allude to Italy, and you know, I've always loved cooking. I did kind of want to be a chef, but went down this other route, but still had Italy there that was kind of feeding this like love of food and love of cooking and cooking for others. And so while I was an Italian teacher, I had a blog which was called Astro and I used to just share recipes on that and I think as social media kind of started to emerge, and as my blog became a bit more well known, I started to ye meet.

6:50Speaker 5:People on the street who liked my recipes.

6:53Speaker 4:And one of those people was Mary Small, who is the publisher for Plum Books, and I met her just by chance at the Carlton Farmer's Market.

7:04Speaker 5:I was getting money out at the ATM, which.

7:05Speaker 4:Was a person so you like get from the FPOs machine, and the lady was like, I love your recipes, and then Mira was like, I love your recipes too, here's my card, let's have a meeting. I think I like skipped off. I mean, I was eight months pregnant at the time with my first Wow, and it kind of just happened from there. But we didn't publish immediately. You know, I had no followers. It was very early days. I didn't have a name for myself at all. She's like, go and kind of like work on that. Go and keep writing, find your voice, figure out what you want it to be, and we'll regroup. And so I think two years later we published Ostro, which, yeah, it's ten years next year.

7:44Speaker 5:I can't believe it.

7:45Speaker 3:It's amazing. I remember those early days of your blog. I've allawed you that I think i'd probably discovered you. I would say from the design files, is that what a lot of people were saying.

7:53Speaker 2:I reckon that would have been how but I can even picture, like the layout of that block. So you're eight months pregnant, you're potentially starting to see this new career that might be able to lay out ahead of you. As we now know fast forward nearly ten years, it did, But at that time it must have felt like a bit of a dream. Still, I imagine you're working as a teacher. What did stepping away to have a baby feel like after this chance encounter and knowing you were starting to wrap up at work for a period.

8:20Speaker 4:I mean, in a way, it was exciting because it felt like I could have a bit of time to kind of maybe work on it. Yes, you know, I love teaching, and I loved teaching Italian, and when I had Haruki, yeah, it felt like maybe an opportunity. But also I just was not ready, Like postpartum just kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. And so in a way, I really wanted to go back to work quite quickly. I just really I only took six months off with him. I did not have a great postpartum experience, and I think for me, work was kind of like a way to balance that out. Yes, And so while I was teaching, that's when I kind of worked on the book idea. I mean, for me, cooking has always been such an nice way to I guess a form of escapism, you know.

9:03Speaker 5:It's kind of this.

9:03Speaker 4:Magic I find in the kitchen that everything kind of just melts away. So I loved that postpartum yeah for sure.

9:10Speaker 2:Can you tell us a bit more where you're comfortable going about your experience postpartum first time mum?

9:15Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I was twenty six, so like a baby in a way, and I didn't really have any friends who were pregnant or had babies.

9:25Speaker 5:I'd never even held a baby.

9:27Speaker 4:It was a huge, huge shock, I mean from like the sleep deprivation to the anxiety I experienced was a really big yeah shock. I suppose I'd never experienced any like mental health challenges, and so when this kind of came up, I mean, you know, it's talked about so much more now, like intrusive thoughts and just general anxiety around. You know, those early days, it was really difficult. And I look back now and I feel a little bit sad. You know, I get emotional because I've had such an amazing experience this time, and I in a way when people would tell me like, oh, I'm having such a great time, like I kind of.

10:05Speaker 5:Bobbed it off. I was like, that's not real, Like.

10:07Speaker 4:You cannot have a good experience like you're describing to me, because I just felt, yes, so isolated and lonely. You know, my husband, who is incredible, but he was working a lot. He was a chef, so he was working super long hours, and I was just kind of like, I don't know, just solo with this baby. I didn't know what to do. I was doubting myself. So yeah, I just wanted to kind of get back to work. I was like, I just want to go back to teaching. We kind of swapped.

10:33Speaker 4:He stayed home I think six months postpartum, and I just went in because I was like, I need a break from this, Like I really didn't enjoy it.

10:42Speaker 2:And do you think looking back, was there anything at the time that you did in terms of village building? As you say, you were sort of the first of your friends to have a baby. You're on the younger side, or at least what we consider to be the younger side in Australia.

10:54Speaker 3:Exactly what was it?

10:56Speaker 5:Really?

10:56Speaker 2:Sort of just this mode of working through cooking and this creative idea and going back to your paid job that gave you some semblance of I guess, feeling like yourself and finding balance. Was there anything else you did at that time?

11:07Speaker 5:I mean I saw a psychologist.

11:09Speaker 2:Yes, fly wise for betweenty six year old, I must say.

11:12Speaker 4:Well, my really good friend ten years my really good friend was like, let's get you to the GP, like she was a psychologist.

11:18Speaker 5:He's a psychologist.

11:19Speaker 4:She's like, we need to head off to the GP. She was like, it's if I didn't have her. Honestly, I really didn't even know how to describe what was going on, which now I know is postpartum anxiety. So getting help was so important, like normalizing that, which I think you know, ten years on, that has changed so much, Like we hear about that much all the time, Like everyone you speak to has either experienced or know someone who's experienced, and it's so normal and common, even if it is really difficult. But I just didn't I didn't even have the words to explain what I was going through, And so seeing a psychologist talking through that and then starting to find like some mum friends was really key.

11:59Speaker 4:I mean, having like a village around you is unbelievable, Like it does a lot to kind of change your perception around what you're going through and you know, work through those challenges, which I would say every mother goes through. You know, whether it's big or small, we all have challenges that we're working through.

12:16Speaker 2:No one gets out of this thing unmarked. Has been my biggest lesson through motherhood. I think it goes to show how important it was to have friends like that around you too, because I imagine, and I'm just sort of making this up, but I feel like you can almost give us that timeline of your experience with motherhood. I feel like the twenty six year olds of today would feel wildly differently about going to a GP to get a mental health plan than we would of ten years ago. I think it'd be so much more normalized.

12:42Speaker 2:So that feels like such a massive step that your friend was able to help you take. So your returning to work, this idea of a book must have been becoming a little bit more real. You're a mum who's finding her feet there what happens next?

12:57Speaker 4:I mean I just went for it, Like I think there's something to be about doing something you've never done before and having no expectations, Like I really just you know, my publisher said, she's like, you've got one chance at this really, like the publishing industry in Australia alone is quite small. She's like, you kind of have one chance to make an impact, to make it a good book, to do it right, for it to be a success. But with all that pressure, I still was just like, well, I don't know what to expect, I don't know who my audience is.

13:24Speaker 5:I'm just going to go for it.

13:25Speaker 4:And I really wrote it with so much heart and love and I think it really resonated with people. And yeah, Austro was born, I suppose, yeah, a second baby, and it just was taken so well by so many people. It was in magazines. You know, For me, it was a dream come true. I was this pretty young person with no idea of what it would mean to write a book. For me, it was celebrity chefs and people on TV who had cookbooks.

13:52Speaker 2:Not you were really at the start of that time where it became more of this new lens of who can release a cookbook, don't you think?

13:59Speaker 1:Sure?

14:00Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, all the cookbooks I grew up reading were Jamie Oliva and Stephie Alexander, and you had to have a big presence to do that, mostly like mostly speaking. But yeah, it was amazing, Like it was a whirlwind, and it did really spare me on, Like I took a little bit of time off teaching and then wrote a second book.

14:19Speaker 5:Meanwhile, I was pregnant with Yuki, so I.

14:21Speaker 4:Had him four and a half years later after Haru, and then COVID happened, so that again was a very different postpartum experience. Like I was kind of really excited for that. I was like, you know, I've learned so much, I'm much more resilient. And then yeah, COVID kind of I don't know, took away a little bit of that opportunity are supposed to connect again with mums and with a village like it became very a smaller world again, I suppose, But I you know, it was all learning.

14:49Speaker 4:Like now a third time, I'm like, all of those experiences really have made me who I am and my career how it is.

14:57Speaker 5:And yeah, I'm interested to know.

15:00Speaker 2:So you're about to become I'm taking you back a bit again to take you forward.

15:03Speaker 3:But I'm so fascinated by the publishing work. No, it's all me, it's not.

15:07Speaker 5:I'm interested to know.

15:09Speaker 2:You publish this book, which, in my memory as someone off to the sidelines, was really successful. And I think you're now up to Are you working on your fourth cookbook right now?

15:19Speaker 5:Your fifth book is coming out in October?

15:21Speaker 3:Yes, So that's amazing.

15:22Speaker 2:Okay, so at the time you have no idea what journey lay ahead. There is some beauty in the naivety of having done it or having not done it yet, I should say.

15:31Speaker 3:Because I guess like, if all else fails, we'll just go back to what we were doing totally.

15:36Speaker 2:And there's not as much on the line, not as people know me all that sort of stuff.

15:39Speaker 3:Your book comes out, what actually happens.

15:41Speaker 4:I mean the month before it was due to be released, it was there was like an eight page spread in Gourmet Traveler, which is the magazine I'd subscribed to you since I was a teenager. I respected the editors so much. I was like, Oh my God, like this you know, I get I'm thinking about It was in my leg in how in East Brunswick, and I was like what, Like I was screaming. I was so excited, and I was like, Oh, this could actually like you know, be something.

16:08Speaker 4:And yeah, I think it was just for me. And this is my mindset really with my work, Like I'm just so excited by like the next thing and the openness of it all.

16:19Speaker 5:Like that's what I.

16:19Speaker 4:Really love about my career is that I've never really put pressure on myself to like achieve certain things by a certain time. Like I'm so excited by opportunities and when things arise, and I love the spontaneity of it and how things come about and three chance meetings at the farmer's market or whatever. And I think that's changed a little bit now since social media, Like things feel a little bit more.

16:45Speaker 5:Predictable in some way, but also I don't know.

16:48Speaker 4:I just I'm so excited by tomorrow and by next year. And I love the creative projects. And yeah, I'm rambling now.

16:57Speaker 3:No, I love it.

16:58Speaker 2:You are welcome to ramblers much as you want. So you release that book. You're still working as a teacher, but you take some time off. I'm interested to hear about the identity experience of being this cookbook author that's becoming well known. Yeah, you're an Italian teacher and you love that. I'm sure you're amazing at that too, and you're a mum. How do all these things work together? And when do you step away from teaching?

17:22Speaker 5:I think it started to become a little bit challenging. You know.

17:25Speaker 4:I dropped down to part time teaching. I had Haruki, which was amazing. Like, after I got through that first year, I felt like I did really like, you know, hit my stride and I was like, okay, I can do this, Like this is good. But you know, I wanted to spend more time with him. And teaching isn't really a job that you leave at the door at three point thirty. You know. There was a lot of work after hours and I don't know. I just kind of wanted more, I suppose, but this is before social media, Like you couldn't really, I mean you had to be selling a lot of books, yeah, to make enough money to kind of live off. And so I did have like financially, I kept teaching and I did love it, but you know, it was always this balance until it got to a point where my husband said to me, and already said, he was like, you're going to be one foot in, one foot out the whole time, Like we kind of you need to make a call. I think, like what do you want to give your time to? And I was like it's obvious, like it was a no brainer.

18:17Speaker 3:Yes.

18:17Speaker 2:Was that before Yuki entered the world that you stopped teaching?

18:22Speaker 4:Yes, I mean I kind of like would go back, Like I would go back, I would do like a term of teaching or I do see like relief teaching. So it was kind of hard to give up fully, But I think it was just before I went on Matt Lee with with Uki that I was like, I need to what was it after?

18:40Speaker 2:It's a little bit of who I mean, I can hardly remember anything that happened two and.

18:44Speaker 3:A half years ago. Yesterday, just like an hour ago. I had no idea, what the time is, no idea, but.

18:52Speaker 5:It became you know, I was, yeah, I was teaching Italian.

18:54Speaker 4:I was also teaching like the kitchen garden program in the school, and like it was amazing.

18:58Speaker 5:I loved it.

18:59Speaker 4:But I was like, I really want to give this a red hot go. You only get one chance to do it well, and I don't want to be kind of just like giving half of my energy and time to it.

19:10Speaker 2:So I feel like, as well, your career is similar and much bigger, but similar to mine in the sense that and maybe this is true for every type of career actually really but there's so much creativity and perhaps and passion behind what you do that there's never really an off switch. So to have a literal another paid job then that and then also try and be the mum you want.

19:30Speaker 5:To be, yeah, it was kind of impossible.

19:32Speaker 2:It's like your brain, like even if you're physically there, sometimes it's like your brain can't be it's just too much going.

19:36Speaker 5:Totally, and you know, it got to it.

19:37Speaker 4:So actually it was well before Yuki I stopped teaching, because then it got to a point where Nori was a chef and he was kind of chefing through COVID and it got to the end of that first year and he was like not enjoying his work.

19:49Speaker 5:And I was in position.

19:50Speaker 4:I was like, like it was my turn to be like you go do your thing, like take your dream, you know, go chase your dream, which is tennis, which is awesome.

19:59Speaker 3:I just love him. Just seems like the best focus tennis. That is so good.

20:06Speaker 4:But it was great, like you know, and we did really like switch a lot, you know, like I went back to teaching, he stayed home, and then I was doing working on my career and he was chefing. And we kind of have always like fluctuated in our ability to like fully pursue our passions. And I feel like it's amazing now because we can both be in the careers that we love and that you know, it feeds us creatively.

20:27Speaker 2:And like what a great lesson for your sons. Yeah, try to show them that like you can. I mean, it's not always easy and the barriers in the way for people, but you both have prioritized in your partner the need to both fulfill what each other needs for sure creatively, which is such an important lesson, I think. Okay, so where mum of two. Now we've just become a mum of two. Things have changed again career wise, there's no teaching in the realms now, and I imagine your profile, as we know, continues to grow. But also you've learned a lot from your first experience of motherhood to bring into your second experience, which, as we've learned, was completely.

21:03Speaker 3:Different from COVID. Yeah, what was it like? Tell us about motherhood round two?

21:07Speaker 4:I mean it was great in a sense, like we had our little family unit and we really were just like so solid and we just spent you know, we spent so much time together at home and I secretly loved it. Like Nori was home from work, we were all just together. I mean it was a shock again because I was like, this time's going to be so different.

21:26Speaker 5:It's gonna be amazing.

21:27Speaker 4:And you know, I had postpartum anxiety again, and so I was like, oh, bumma, did all that work?

21:34Speaker 5:Like went through all of that. It like here I am again.

21:36Speaker 4:And yeah, I think I was disappointed in myself, which now looking back, I'm like, that is ridiculous.

21:43Speaker 2:I can understand that though it and it's not fair to you, but I can understand I few work hard to avoid something to be hit with it again. Yeah, would feel like unfortunately with mums, we carry so much weight on our shots that we think it's within us.

21:54Speaker 4:When totally and you know that again, looking back, I was like, that was such a time a period of time, and I was so much more equipped because like I could like spot it straight away, like I was like, get onto this is Julia, Like we're like, let's sort this happy. So in a way, I was like, just yes, so much more equipped, and just like you know, kept working at it and supporting myself and like trying to be kind to myself because I think so much of it is like being not so kind to ourselves of like you know, let's just like get on top.

22:24Speaker 5:Of this and under the rug and keep going exactly.

22:27Speaker 2:And what did work look like fear during that time and returning to paid work, because I imagine something that's a blessing and a curse in.

22:35Speaker 3:Your career is the fluidity of it.

22:37Speaker 2:You can't really turn it off and when you want to, and great opportunities would come through brands or cookbook deals or whatever. So what did that period look like of trying to navigate work. We're in our COVID bubble, we're becoming a mum of two. What did all that look like?

22:51Speaker 4:I mean it was great because I mean the book did a maze like your simple Family Food did so well.

22:57Speaker 5:Everybody was at home.

22:58Speaker 2:Cookie yes, and it was just like what you got for someone too. It's like I love you, I will send you a cookbook.

23:04Speaker 4:And I mean it was postponed, so like the law, you know, it was actually a blessing.

23:07Speaker 5:I was meant to go on.

23:08Speaker 4:I had uki in jan and I was meant to go on like a book tour in April, so it's going to be like a push. It all got postponed.

23:17Speaker 5:All the bookshops were shut.

23:18Speaker 4:It came out in August, I think, so I was like it was good. I was like ready to It was like eight months or nine months postpart I was like, okay, I can go on my book tour now. And it was great, Like the book did so well. Everyone's so supportive, like people were buying it. Yeah, as you said, like everyone just wanted to cook. Everyone wanted to be at home cooking. That's all we could really do. And so my career I feel like that it just kind of like started really going.

23:40Speaker 2:That's almost the point when you're like, Okay, things are moving here.

23:44Speaker 5:I think so.

23:44Speaker 4:And you know, social media just really was coming into its own, like yeah, as you said, like working with amazing brands and like creating recipes for them, and I just found I think I got my amazing agent.

23:56Speaker 5:At that time, everything's a blur. Yeah, don't quite shake me years.

24:01Speaker 2:We won't do a timeline in this episode.

24:05Speaker 5:No detailed grass. Yeah, I don't know.

24:07Speaker 4:I just felt like, yeah, I was really coming into my own and was able to support my family, and yeah, Nora to be able to follow his passions, and yeah, it was great, like the postpartum was.

24:18Speaker 5:There were challenges, but it was by far more enjoyable than the first time.

24:23Speaker 4:I think that experience and that knowledge, you know, really played into And do.

24:27Speaker 2:You think because you know you got through it before, there's like a path forward, You're like, this doesn't feel great today totally, but I can get through it.

24:35Speaker 3:I don't know how to get through it totally.

24:36Speaker 4:And I think you know, when you're in it that is even second time, it's harder to see, you know, to see that, but you know I had more friends with baby I was thirty one, I had more friends who had had babies by that stage. And there is a lot to be said about having, you know, friends with babies.

24:52Speaker 3:Yeah, when you're.

24:52Speaker 2:Having a baby, like someone that can go to the coffee shop twenty minutes notice because you need to get out.

24:58Speaker 4:Like I joined the mother's group even though I was second time around, Like first time, I was too anxious to like join my mother's group. Like I was really like this is you know, I was scared to like leave the house with my with Haru because he might cry and that's not like I'm a very social person, and so that was challenging. And then with you K, I was like, okay, I'm going to join the mother's group and it was kind of cool. I was like, okay, I have a bit of experience. Like I kind of felt like a little bit of a yeah handed it. Yeah, yes, it was a better experience for sure.

25:25Speaker 3:I'm interested to know.

25:26Speaker 2:This is really sort of an inflection point for you in your career.

25:30Speaker 3:You're a mum of two.

25:31Speaker 2:What strikes me about you is that you're so lovely and open and sociable. But if I'm a guessing or betting woman, I would say, because you're so humble that there'd be an interesting balance between being in the limelight and doing sort of what you need.

25:48Speaker 3:To get your cookbooks out.

25:49Speaker 2:Imagine there's a balance between like loving the great bit of your job and also being like, oh, I don't want to feel myself today, am I right? And if so, how do you get through that?

25:57Speaker 4:I mean, like we all have bad days, right, hair days, like energy day, and I think like when you're at like I mean, I love more than no one else to like be in bed watching a show, like watching a show all day, like you know, I feel like me it's a balance, like I think because of my teaching background, maybe I truly love being out there and chatting to people and when people come up to me like I made I was like.

26:21Speaker 5:Which what was like?

26:22Speaker 4:How Like I love it really, you know, makes me so happy and fulfilled to like chatting to people and seeing people cook my recipes and being at events and things. But like, yeah, like I also love to like be in my pj's and chilling out with the kids. And it is a really hard thing to balance because there is no off switch, like you said, you know, it's when you're creative and when you're self employed. It is a really hard line to kind of draw in the sound and be like today's my day off. Like I don't know, I don't really have days off.

26:53Speaker 3:You wouldn't, you know. It is fine.

26:56Speaker 4:It can feel at the moment, to be honest, like I feel quite exhausted.

27:00Speaker 5:I'm a six month old. I'm back working.

27:02Speaker 4:I just you know, we shot my book this year, like I was four months postpartum. Yeah, it's challenging, like I think, but I do have weeks where it's really quiet and I feel so lucky. I can just like work from home nearly all the time.

27:17Speaker 3:And yeah, you're not always having to be on displonder no. Yeah, like when I'm.

27:21Speaker 5:Testing my recipes, like you don't want to see.

27:23Speaker 2:You in jermy somehow, like playing gorgeous music and it's all just very lovely.

27:28Speaker 4:Like you know, it's at ten pm and I'm writing a recipe which isn't ideal, but like I don't know, it just fits in with the kids.

27:35Speaker 5:So seamlessly, Like I'm away a little bit.

27:38Speaker 4:Yes, I have crazy deadlines sometimes, but for the most part, like I am there at three point thirty to get them up. I can go to all of their performances, and you know, I'm the mom I want to be whilst also having this career of my dreams.

27:52Speaker 2:To be honest, I guess why I sort of asked that question is I feel like you just come across so naturally to people, and that's what people and that's why you're like, honestly a national treasure like people do. I do it because you're just so lovely and that comes through so naturally.

28:12Speaker 3:How do you, like, what do you think that is?

28:15Speaker 2:How do you think you've been able to I guess grow such a natural feeling community in a world that can feel the opposite a lot. Social media can be a disgusting place to be, but in your corner it's not.

28:26Speaker 3:And you've always shown up in a very I.

28:28Speaker 2:Guess authentic kind of that's such a buzzword now, in such an authentic way.

28:33Speaker 3:How do you think you went about that?

28:35Speaker 4:I don't I don't really have a clear answer like this. I've never had like a strategy or a plan, and like, probably that's why it shows up like people like you, the.

28:43Speaker 5:One who's answering the messages, I'm like, yeah, like it's.

28:46Speaker 4:My Instagram and it's my page, and it's my newsletter, and it's for me. Like when I start like getting rid of that person.

28:53Speaker 3:And like being being personal. Yeah, person personability, let's it's all in. If you're happy. Personability.

29:02Speaker 2:If it doesn't exist now, it should, We'll put that in the next cookbook.

29:05Speaker 3:It's a word now.

29:08Speaker 4:I feel like if that was removed, Like, you know, there are thousands of people cooking on the internet and there are thousands of recipes. I don't know, like I genuinely love it so much, like I love being in this corner and I don't know, I think, yeah, this is who I am. I've never tried to be anybody else. Someone said to me, like, you can't please everybody, and when you start trying to do that, you're gonna, you know, disappoint people. You're not gonna end up being true to yourself, and then what are you left with at the end of the day. You know, I feel like I stay true to myself. I cook the food I love. I am who I am, and like I'm glad people resonate with it because you know, I don't know, it's just me.

29:49Speaker 2:So it's just like being real and being a bit scrappy at times, but in a lovely way. I mean right, I don't actually mean you specifically, I just need that to be shown rather. You know, it's not always showing up every day, and I think that's right. I think that's why people connect so well with you and find like an ally or a friend in your totally because you're an everyday person speaking to other everyday people, which I think is such a superpower.

30:16Speaker 3:Especially now.

30:22Speaker 2:Before you become pregnant with your third baby, I imagine there was a bit of a tossing and turning feeling of should we do this again?

30:28Speaker 3:Shouldn't? What did that feel like?

30:30Speaker 2:Because I imagine your kids were starting to get to the age where there was a little bit more I guess structure or predictability might be the right word. Your career was probably feeling maybe a bit on the same path, a bit more structure and predictability. But there was obviously a yearning for another baby, which is something that so many moms go through.

30:48Speaker 3:I'd love to hear your experience with that.

30:49Speaker 4:I mean, yeah, there's six years between Yuki and Miko. We really denied for ages. I don't know, we were like, we just didn't want to regret it. I think that was the biggest thing. We didn't want to get to like fifty years old, fifty five years old and look back and be like what if we you.

31:05Speaker 5:Know, I feel like you never regret having the kid.

31:07Speaker 4:But like for us, I was just like, we want to have, you know, a bigger family. And I'm one of three, Norris one of three. I think we questioned a lot though, like whether we have the capacity and like financial stability and do we you know, we knew we had like enough love like we love being parents.

31:25Speaker 5:Yeah, we really worn't sure.

31:27Speaker 4:And I think because of because I am the breadwinner of the family, like a lot falls on physically and mentally on the child bearing person, and that's me, and that's I also have to then still work. And I think Nori was more like kind of like it's going to put more pressure on it.

31:44Speaker 5:I was like, let's do this.

31:46Speaker 3:Like you're like, yep, the hood, let's go for it. And I just obviously had another baby in your heart.

31:51Speaker 4:We did, and I think like we were just I mean, I don't know if I can say this.

31:56Speaker 5:When you say call We wanted to see what a girl would That's fine, you can.

32:00Speaker 3:Be honest, that is fine, absolutely fine.

32:04Speaker 5:We're human, like you know, like what would a girl be?

32:08Speaker 4:Like? Yeah, not to be, which is fine. I did grieve that at touch.

32:12Speaker 2:Can we talk about what that felt like? Only if you're comfortable for such a common experience.

32:17Speaker 4:So common, and I think I was just like we've had two boys, like, surely it's going to be a girl.

32:21Speaker 3:Yeah.

32:22Speaker 4:And then we got the letter from Obstatrician and I got my ten year old to read it out. I was like no, Like I bought like girls dresses like Japan for a trip and I was like, oh.

32:31Speaker 3:This is cute, like little have to buy it just in case I have.

32:33Speaker 5:To buy it.

32:34Speaker 4:It wasn't, And I was just small shocked. I was like, I just in my plan. I was like, surely it's going to be a girl.

32:39Speaker 3:Yeah, I imagine. Also the Old Wive's Tale of sickness would have made you think that.

32:42Speaker 5:You have exactly.

32:43Speaker 4:I had such a different pregnancy, so I was really unwell. I had to like take medication for my morning seacres. It wasn't, which like now is like a so fine. And also even back then, I went, you know, I went to see my psychologists, like I feel really like guilty and feeling a bit like funny that I'm having another boy. And she was so amazing. She was like when we like, She's like, by the way, it's so common. She's like, it's really common.

33:06Speaker 3:That's why I love that you're saying this.

33:08Speaker 5:Yeah, it's so common.

33:08Speaker 4:She's like, you're Actually what we find mostly is that what you're grieving is actually like the relationship that you thought you might have with a daughter, you know, my mother daughter relationship, Like it's got nothing to do with actually.

33:20Speaker 5:The baby, nothing inside of you.

33:22Speaker 4:Yeah, And once I kind of got past that, I was like okay, Like then I was like, oh way, mom, I got it.

33:29Speaker 5:Let's go with it. And oh my god, he's just the best.

33:32Speaker 4:And like the thing, the funny thing is, you know, all my boys are so different from the get.

33:35Speaker 3:Go totally, and like generationally life is so different.

33:38Speaker 2:Like I think a lot of us want to girl because we feel like that's the only way to keep that relationship with your child forever that we have when our kids are babies. But we're learning the parenting is always evolving and changing and that we're raising our boys differently to how they did.

33:53Speaker 3:So I feel like that's it's amazing the difference.

33:55Speaker 2:It's like we want to keep that gentleness in our children that we expect only women.

33:59Speaker 3:To carry, which is just not the case.

34:01Speaker 4:People still have said, like try again for a girl, like who's going to look after you when you're old?

34:06Speaker 3:I was like, my boys, they will fucking look after me. I will make sure of that. I will raise them.

34:11Speaker 4:And and they are like, I don't know, they're so like obviously just kids, but like they love like cooking, and I don't know all these like traditional gendered things that just like don't really play out I think as they once did.

34:28Speaker 2:My son the other day was so gorgeous to my daughter, Posy and like gotta all these caring things. I got a blanket and all this stuff. And I'm like, boys do care. We just teach them not to. So I'm going to make sure I don't teach him not to care.

34:40Speaker 4:Yeah it's so true. But yeah, so yeah, now we have Miko and he's like.

34:44Speaker 3:Beautiful, Look does he look like your second child?

34:47Speaker 5:He looks like me, but a baby. I was like, finally I have one.

34:51Speaker 4:Hair.

34:52Speaker 5:I love it.

34:53Speaker 3:The other two straight straight. I love it, taking you off on a tangent, I know, but that's beautiful.

34:58Speaker 2:I'm really really grateful you share that because people often I think our feelings about it are so mixed because we know that we like the Yeah, gender disappointment is an interesting one, so then we don't talk about it.

35:09Speaker 3:But it's a very real thing. Tell us about.

35:12Speaker 2:Life as a mum of three who's also the breadwinner.

35:16Speaker 3:Something really interesting.

35:17Speaker 2:Interesting when we were emailing, was you talking about the pressure and when I was thinking about that pressure from your point of view, it's not that you're just going off to a corporate job and trying to make sure that you keep getting that paycheck. You're the face of your brand and your business, and in a way then you're sort of the face of your family's I don't know, like livelihood, which is a lot.

35:37Speaker 3:Yeah, talk to us about that.

35:39Speaker 4:I think that was what my freak out was last year. I was like, I think the gravity of it all. I'm like, I don't know, the unknown. You know, we're having a third kid, and like everything's going to be bigger and more expensive. I was like, oh my god, it's all me and it's not like nor ease. It contributes a lot too in many ways. Yeah, and yeah, it really felt and I mean I feel it now. I always feel it that you know, there is a lot of pressure to perform and to sell books and to I mean we're a team, like we're literally a family business.

36:08Speaker 5:And Nori supports.

36:09Speaker 4:Me entirely like time, like he you know, we work on projects together.

36:14Speaker 3:And does he work in the business just quickly because I didn't know.

36:17Speaker 5:That, yeah, him.

36:19Speaker 4:I mean he helps me on event like when we have events, like for example, we did classes on the weekend, Like he sets up and like pass down and like assist me in the classes.

36:28Speaker 3:Amazing as well for your sons. Again, to see a.

36:31Speaker 2:Dad totally like that's totally common assisting his wife in her what's predominantly her work. I know it's obviously amazing, it's true, but like one an amazing lesson to teach your.

36:42Speaker 5:Science is really nice. And yeah, so he works with me in that way. I mean he helps me. He's a former chef, so it helps me like testing recipes, he helps cleaning, he does I don't have like Washington clothes in five years. He does so.

36:58Speaker 4:Much for and just so like if the house isn't running, I can't also do my work like it's so how like home base. True, so we're very much like in sync and work as a team and with the kids and everything. But yeah, I think because of that nature, like, yeah, it does feel a lot of pressure to perform and kids.

37:19Speaker 3:And stay relevant, Like is that something they have to think about much?

37:23Speaker 2:Because that's an awful hard thing. But anyone in the public eye does.

37:27Speaker 4:Right, I think so, And I feel like I'm in the public eye. But I'm also like, I'm also not like you. I mean, like I am, but I'm not, like I don't know, I don't really see myself in that way, even.

37:37Speaker 3:If maybe star not a popster, I'm not you.

37:40Speaker 5:Know, I'm not a poster. I say never I do love to see no.

37:48Speaker 4:Yeah, And I think that plays into my anxieties in general, Like, I mean, I grew up. My parents split when I was six. My mum was really unwell when I was two years old, and so like a lot of things like didn't go to plan, you know, growing up, we didn't have much money, Like we relied on food boxes from the Salvos for example, at one point in my childhood. So I think I've always had this fear of like not to go back there, and that plays into it, like I'm not that's not going to happen, but you know that does. Your past experiences do impact how then you move through the world, and so I think, yeah, I do feel pressure. But also this postpart on time has really taught me a lot, Like I don't know, I got Bell's palsy like a week after I gave birth.

38:31Speaker 4:So when you're like you're the face of the brow, I was like, yeah, I was like my face literally like.

38:36Speaker 3:You felt like you couldn't shot up then.

38:37Speaker 5:One hundred percent.

38:38Speaker 4:I you know, everyone's like you didn't take any time off posts and I was like, yes, I did. I didn't leave the house for eights because my whole face was or my half my face was, which is really common that I found out in postpartum.

38:50Speaker 2:I actually want to stay with your mum because that is so true that we're all like a product of our history and what we bring forward with us, especially in our parenting journeys.

38:59Speaker 3:So Mom, when we're.

39:01Speaker 2:Emailing, you said, has taught you so much as a single mom, and becoming a mum made you appreciate that even more, Can you tell.

39:07Speaker 3:Us a little bit about what you learned from your own mum.

39:10Speaker 4:I mean single moms, like shout out because I cannot imagine. I can't imagine doing that. Like I think my mum worked the whole time. She worked so hard, she raised three kids, like in the nineties, I don't know, like we were kind of like it was kind of loose time, Like I don't know how we got through, but you know, I think she just taught me a lot about resilience.

39:33Speaker 5:Like she's such a positive person.

39:34Speaker 4:She's been through a lot in her life, and she does have a lot of positivity, and she's very generous, like I think she's generous of time, spirit, Like she's always like always another seat at the table. You know, it's never like no one's never not welcome. She's very you know, loving and kind and like now with my kids, she just like would do anything for them. And I think seeing her, like in some ways, it's like it's taught me like how to be but also how.

40:02Speaker 5:To not be. Like I don't know, it teaches you a lot.

40:04Speaker 4:About, yeah, resilience, but also like standing up for yourself and also strength and also rest like she would never rest, and it's such like a migrant thing of like working till your well, working till your diet. You know, she just steals. She's seventy five and still working and I'm just like, just rest, like take a and she just doesn't feel like she can. And I also don't want to be like that. Yeah, And I want my kids to never see me like enjoying myself or like, you know something, I'm.

40:33Speaker 5:Like, oh going out. Guys are like, oh for work. I'm like, I'm going out with my friends.

40:37Speaker 4:Like I want them to see that there are these like different sides of me, and I probably didn't see that in my mum, Like, you know, she's extremely hard working and so am I, but like to the point where she doesn't know how to rest.

40:50Speaker 3:It's such an interesting one.

40:51Speaker 2:We Laza and I were on a podcast recently and we were talking about I guess I often talk about the challenges that mum's face and I look for solutions too, but more that person that calls out what's wrong in the system. And one of the hosts of this podcast was saying, like, like, we also need to celebrate the mums that sort of she didn't use the word doing at all. But that sort of felt like the inference for me, and I was like, yes, but also I don't want that to be the blueprint for mums. And of course it sounded like your mum really didn't have much choice but to just keep going right because she was raising you as a single mum. Yeah, but I think there is a lot to be appreciated, but also to take notes on NIGHTE it been like, but I don't want to even though I think she is a superhero, I also don't want to give her that label because it just shows how much she was carrying.

41:38Speaker 4:And you know, I remember we would like she'd like want to take me out for the younger, so like it was her and I a lot towards the end, like of my childhood, and she's like, oh, let's go for a drive, let's go for a day, like she always even if we had not much like want to make things special. And we get like twenty minutes in the trip, like I need to pull over and have an app Like she was just so tired and not in innate, Like I don't want her to think about if she was in a negative way, but like she was really like carrying a lot, and as you said, she had no choice. It was her or nothing, and I think, yeah, I feel like, yeah, I don't want that for me, and like it's not always something that you choose, obviously, but I learned a.

42:17Speaker 5:Lot from that from experienced.

42:19Speaker 2:Yes, I'm interested in something else that you said when we were emailing, because it really struck a chord with me, this idea that motherhood really reflects the injustice in the world too. I think, like not to be this typical like Instagram person, but I think that motherhood has radicalized me more than anything ever has. What's that experience like for you, and what do you think of when you're writing that? What was coming to mind for you?

42:42Speaker 4:I mean, I've always been such like a seeking like social justice and like always care, like I really care so deeply about.

42:50Speaker 3:Being the same. You and me both are your pises.

42:53Speaker 5:I'm a virgo.

42:54Speaker 3:Oh, I don't know what that means. I was just hoping there was going to be some synergy and stuff.

43:00Speaker 4:I mean, but it's is useless to move on from our astrology, I don't. I think, especially when you're pregnant and when you have a little baby and you lift your phone up and you're seeing pregnant women, little babies like with limbs missing, and sorry to be gory, but like, I don't know. I just I don't know how you can sit there with your baby and not be affected by that.

43:23Speaker 5:And I think I'm going.

43:25Speaker 4:To my like beautiful obstetrician's office and having this amazing care and then thinking like around the world there are women who don't have maternal health care, and like you know, even regionally here, there are gaps in the system, right, I don't know, it just really does I think when you are fortunate and you do have, you know, access to these things that we take for granted, I think it really Like I guess she was thinking about it, like I can't imagine, you know, going through pregnancy and birth without.

43:56Speaker 2:Oh, some of those clips that you'd say of women in Gaza, which I'm sure is what you're referring to, and you're talking about limbs. It's like there's c sections performed without I just.

44:06Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know.

44:07Speaker 4:I just think how I'm just there, And I think when you're a mother, like, how can you not I mean, how can you not be so moved and so affected with these images? And I think that's something that's changed in the last few years that we're seeing so much and you know, I just can't turn turn a blind eye.

44:24Speaker 3:What does that do for your mindset?

44:27Speaker 2:I try to if I'm having like a first world problem day where I don't want to do something for me, for example, it's like I get to do this, not I have to. How do you think that shows up for you as a parent? Engaging and work too, Because in one part, like you can feel really sad about what's happening to others and feeling lucky yourself doesn't take away their.

44:45Speaker 3:Misery and so it could be like a weird like paradox.

44:48Speaker 2:But at the same time you're like, well, I am lucky and I do have this life, so I need to go live it.

44:53Speaker 5:Yeah, how does it live it?

44:54Speaker 4:And then also like advocate and like, don't just like stand by, Like I think it's so important to like, I don't know, like support where.

45:03Speaker 5:You can and show up where you can.

45:05Speaker 4:And obviously people have different capacities, but I think even just like having conversations and yeah, it's such a h I don't have answers, ye, Like I think just not feeling so helpless.

45:17Speaker 2:Yeah, that you can't do anything. Yeah, it's like do something with that anger. Yeah, yeah, so much more to ask you, Julia. But I know where I'm going to go next, and it's your cookbook because you are taking photos of this cookbook, not you personally, but you're photographing it. Didn't worry that very well at four months Postparda and it's being released this October. Talk to us all about this cookbook, what's happening, what it was like to work on it while pregnant and then early motherhood.

45:42Speaker 3:Talk to us all through it.

45:43Speaker 5:I'm so excited for this book.

45:45Speaker 4:It's, yeah, my fifth cookbook, and it's so beautiful.

45:48Speaker 5:It's called Simple Pleasures.

45:49Speaker 3:Oh honestly a name for the times. That's what everyone needs right now, truly. I don't know.

45:55Speaker 5:Yeah, it was definitely this They always feel like a labor of love. You know, it's just such a.

45:59Speaker 4:Huge pro They take two years to kind of from start to finish. But I think writing this one whilst pregnant this time with two other kids, and then shooting it, I was we shot a little bit last year, so I was pregnant and then postparton this time. Yeah, it was a lot like I felt bigger than it normally does. And I think you can see it in.

46:16Speaker 5:The book, like I think it's so beautiful.

46:19Speaker 4:I mean, I love all my cookbooks, but I think a new one always just feels so special. And it's really about just simple seasonal midweek cooking that isn't boring.

46:32Speaker 5:Elevator pitch that I.

46:33Speaker 3:Just wow up with. That's a perfect elevator pitch.

46:36Speaker 2:The name is honestly like, that's what I'm looking for in my life, to get off my fucking phone and enjoy some simple pleasures. True, I would definitely be buying that. Okay, I actually have two more I like now I promised to be honest. I couldn't help but focus on something you said when we're emailing, which is the compliments and comments that would never be said to a man.

46:56Speaker 3:How do you do it all? Who's got the kids?

46:58Speaker 5:Wow?

46:58Speaker 3:You work so much?

46:58Speaker 2:Wow, you don't stop. It looks like you don't stop. Do dads get asked any of this? I want to understand how this sits with you and what this is like in the real world because you get this I imagine from strangers too, because people know your face now a bit more. And as you say you're not fully in the public eye, but you recognize them.

47:15Speaker 3:What does this feel like to you? And how does it sit with you?

47:17Speaker 4:I mean, I just know that like my husband, like Nory, would never get asked this ever, Like he's never been asked, And I think it's frustrating. I think part of it is maybe my own kind of like what's the word, I don't know, my own feeling of like that I am doing too much all the time, you know, a little bit of that kind of like self reflection of.

47:35Speaker 3:Like totally, we can't help but judge ourselves.

47:38Speaker 2:Again, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than dad's do, even really good dads. Like societally, we grew up thinking mums are the owners of home. So even when we try and I guess debunk these myths or like change these narratives, we're still sort of operating with him them, aren't we totally?

47:54Speaker 4:And I think you know, people often mean, well, they're like, my god, you're doing so like you're doing so much, and that I take it as like, oh my god, I'm doing too much.

48:01Speaker 2:Every time someone says that to me, that's exactly.

48:05Speaker 5:I'm trying to shift that.

48:05Speaker 4:I'm like, yeah, I am doing so much and like I do have a lot on and I feel like I have to justify myself a lot, which yeah, I just don't think happens to dad's. I mean, you know, I go away a bit for work and they're like, I went away, you know, maybe three months postparton for one night to Sydney for a job, and like.

48:23Speaker 5:I don't know, it's just like this's got the kid.

48:25Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm just like, how do you.

48:27Speaker 5:I'm like their dad.

48:29Speaker 3:Just like get it. You just go straight back with other parents. Yes, yes, the very capable one that you can see is.

48:36Speaker 4:Very capable to our kids, more capable than I'm like, he's more capable than I am.

48:41Speaker 5:He's got it going on.

48:43Speaker 2:So your I guess response is just quickly deal with it, head on and move on.

48:47Speaker 5:Yeah, totally.

48:48Speaker 4:And I mean it is just that ingrained thing in society and people most of the time just mean well, but it does. I think it can like build up and become and it does make you like self reflect a little bit sometimes, but it.

48:59Speaker 3:Can eat away, that's for sure.

49:02Speaker 2:I am sitting here thinking about the journey you've been on, and I'm thinking about that twenty six year old version of you, who struggled a bit in that postpart and felt quite lonely, didn't realize she had at least five cookbooks in front of her.

49:16Speaker 3:What does that like when you reflect on that now?

49:19Speaker 2:How do you feel when you look back at that version of yourself that was a decade younger, had no idea how amazing and fulfilling her career would be, that she'd become a mum of three.

49:29Speaker 3:And as I say, I have.

49:31Speaker 2:At least five cookbooks to her name, we'll say, we'll revisit this.

49:35Speaker 3:How do you feel looking back? And also what would you say to that new mum version of yourself?

49:39Speaker 5:I mean, I was reflecting on the way here.

49:41Speaker 4:I was like, you know, I feel a bit sad for that version of myself because she really struggled and it was a really tough time. But you know, conversely, like she got through it and came out stronger and look, you know what was ahead. And I think that those moments in time made me who I am today, and I have so much, you know, empathy for her.

50:05Speaker 5:It's weird talking about myself like.

50:06Speaker 4:This, but I think it's nice though I don't know, I have a lot of empathy for like, you know what I went through and how hard it was Because it was hard, It was really challenging, and I think having this really amazing experience this time around has only been even sweeter because of it. And you know all the successes. You know there are highs and lows, but.

50:26Speaker 3:I don't know.

50:27Speaker 4:I just think all of these things make up, you know, the full picture.

50:30Speaker 3:What would you go back and tell her if you could give her one piece of advice?

50:34Speaker 5:What would it go to that mother's group?

50:36Speaker 2:I love that it's simple, but it actually holds a lot of meaning.

50:39Speaker 5:Should have gone to the months group.

50:41Speaker 3:Please get yourself there, darling girl. We know it's hard. Julia, I've loved talking to you.

50:48Speaker 2:I highly doubt anyone listening to this doesn't know where to find you.

50:51Speaker 3:But in case they don't, where can people find you online?

50:53Speaker 4:You can find me on Instagram, so it's at Julie Ostro and I also have a sub stack so.

50:58Speaker 5:You can find me there.

50:58Speaker 3:Thank you so much for being Thank you