Chapter 5 – The Fire Comes

0:05Speaker 1:My name is Trim, and this is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us.

0:14Speaker 2:The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, the April another time, or.

0:26Speaker 3:You would be a natural explosion as well on new.

0:35Speaker 4:Land, A bad eighty batlen Land, life of eighty Ball.

0:38Speaker 5:That can be no peace without justice, and that can be no justice without peace.

0:47Speaker 1:Chapter five. For a long time there was confusion over who had died and who had surrendered at d envy n Fo. Months later, after the French abdicated and Vietnam was split into a communist north and a supposedly democratic south, the surviving prisoners were sent home. When Paul was not among them, Some thought he could have been one of the seventy who escaped into Lao, but eventually reports of his death were accepted, and two years after the fall of d Enbien Fu, a memorial service for Paul Devaux was finally held in.

1:32Speaker 6:Saigon Benedictus Deus Benedictus nomad Sanctum Aus Benedictus Jesus Christus Verus Deus se verus.

1:48Speaker 1:Omo for his widow Land and her parents. A full Latin requiem mass was an alien experiences.

2:00Speaker 4:Didn't understand a word of it, did you, dear me?

2:04Speaker 1:Nothing land No.

2:08Speaker 4:Beautiful of course, yeah, in its own European way.

2:12Speaker 7:Paul would have loved it.

2:14Speaker 4:Ah, well, coffee, what about catheline. I need a little break before I hit back to work.

2:21Speaker 7:I'll wait for Joseph. But if you get a table, we'll meet you there, will order?

2:25Speaker 8:Then?

2:27Speaker 4:Come on, husband, Yes, I'm coming, I'm coming Joseph.

2:32Speaker 8:Ah, there you are, Oh my godly.

2:39Speaker 1:Joseph had flown in from America the day before and had listened to the service from the back with the general congregation.

2:46Speaker 8:What a fitting farewell, Yes, a full requiem mass.

2:50Speaker 7:Yes, it was very nice. He was a good man.

2:55Speaker 8:You're okay.

2:57Speaker 7:I'm fine, always happier when you're here. Let's walk this way. My father's finding us a table at Katheline.

3:05Speaker 8:Ah, I didn't see too yet.

3:11Speaker 7:No, she put her foot down. She said she's not interested in a Latin mass for a Frenchman she barely met. Really, she's twenty. We all held strong views at twenty.

3:23Speaker 8:Is she a communist?

3:24Speaker 7:No? A nationalist, that's what she claims.

3:29Speaker 8:What started all this?

3:30Speaker 7:You me, well, your country, not you personally. When the French gave up power, she was hoping a united Vietnam would become self ruled through an elected leader. Instead, America installed the Prime Minister who kept the South separate and canceled the elections.

3:47Speaker 8:But at least Prime Minister DM is Vietnamese.

3:50Speaker 7:He's also Catholic in to Yette's size, that's just America replacing one colonial power with another.

3:57Speaker 8:Maybe I should talk to her.

4:00Speaker 7:If you think you can change her mind.

4:02Speaker 8:You can't, you know, Ln. I was hoping to keep this for later, but I threw caution to the wind this time and booked flights back to America for both of you. No, don't just sigh. If you and two yet could see what we have to offer, I know you'd be happy there. We could. We could open a branch of your father's business. He could visit too.

4:25Speaker 7:What about your wife?

4:27Speaker 8:You know we only stayed together for Gary, and now he's all grown up, he's about to start college. It's it's more or less over now.

4:34Speaker 3:And away.

4:36Speaker 2:Goes up.

4:40Speaker 6:Where have you been?

4:41Speaker 8:Coffees arrived? We should toast, Yeah, Paul was always toasting something.

4:50Speaker 9:Mm hmm.

4:52Speaker 4:To Connel.

4:53Speaker 8:Paul deverrel to pull Santa.

4:57Speaker 3:Such a tragedy.

4:59Speaker 4:I was going to ask him to join the company, you know, coax him out of the army into something more secure. I have to find someone to take the reins when I'm no longer able to hold them.

5:09Speaker 8:Oh why not Land?

5:10Speaker 7:Oh no, no, actually I hadn't thought.

5:14Speaker 9:Oh no, no, my daughter isn't interested in business.

5:17Speaker 7:Excuse me, mother, I haven't said that. Oh I just haven't thought about it.

5:22Speaker 8:I think you'd be terrific. You're great with people, you have a real skill.

5:25Speaker 5:Yes, and business is mostly relationships.

5:28Speaker 4:To sell a commodity in this new regime, you need a government license, and to get a license you need influence. And to have influence you need either charm or money, or both, which can involve some tiresome haggling.

5:42Speaker 7:Oh come on, father, you love the haggling.

5:47Speaker 4:I think we both do, if we're honest. Maybe, although our workers are the real hagglers. They're much worse than government officials.

5:56Speaker 10:You know.

5:56Speaker 4:They seem to hate us, even when we do so much for them. Yeah, we create jobs, opportunities, pay their wages, and yet all they do is complain about the hours or conditions. Nothing's ever good enough.

6:10Speaker 7:Now it's not sounding so attractive.

6:12Speaker 4:No, on the contrary, you would probably wrap them around your little finger.

6:16Speaker 7:I doubt it. I've haggled buying bananas, but I've never really negotiated anything.

6:20Speaker 11:We'll come and.

6:21Speaker 9:See what it's like.

6:22Speaker 4:I have a meeting in half an hour.

6:23Speaker 12:Land, husband, Please don't twist her arm.

6:26Speaker 4:I'm not twisting her arm with Pierre Montande. He owns the Citron license for South Vietnam.

6:32Speaker 5:Now the French are no longer in power, he needs a Vietnamese partner.

6:36Speaker 8:You should go Land. No, she shouldn't strike while the iron's hot.

6:39Speaker 7:Can I just think about it first?

6:41Speaker 8:I was just saying, Monsieur Hugh, we could look at opening an office of your company in America.

6:47Speaker 4:We could I have thought about expanding, and that's what this meeting's about.

6:52Speaker 8:Just go see what you think.

6:54Speaker 1:Don't let them pressure your daughter.

6:56Speaker 4:Ah, come on, just come and listen.

6:58Speaker 8:I'll get the check and escort Adam Hugh back to the villa.

7:01Speaker 9:Thank you.

7:01Speaker 8:You go, then this this could make a real difference.

7:05Speaker 4:Good good, good, Okay, I'll hear a taxi for us.

7:10Speaker 11:Go so well.

7:11Speaker 1:Joseph paid for the coffees, Madame Hugh sat and watched her daughter and husband stride to the edge of the square and flag down a cyclone.

7:19Speaker 4:Okay, come on inside, inside after you.

7:21Speaker 1:But before they could get in.

7:22Speaker 4:Here, boss, come on so here, Fleas.

7:26Speaker 2:Wait in a moment, it's me.

7:29Speaker 5:Yes, you don't remember.

7:33Speaker 4:No, I'm sorry letting you. I was a foreman on your plantation before you.

7:40Speaker 11:This is me.

7:43Speaker 4:Oh, yes, yes, you were organizing the workers into a collective. This meant Lund would have stopped production and cost us thousands.

7:53Speaker 11:Until you pay this fairly.

7:55Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yes, good for you.

7:57Speaker 9:Come on, Lon, let's go.

7:59Speaker 1:Still watching from the table in the cafe, Madame Hugh frowned, without knowing what was being said. It just didn't look right.

8:09Speaker 8:Okay, you ready, Madam?

8:11Speaker 12:Here, what's going on over there where?

8:16Speaker 1:Joseph looked across.

8:18Speaker 12:What do you think, Joseph, do you know him?

8:24Speaker 1:Land was now sitting in the cyclo, but as her father tried to join her. As the man struggled with Messyr Hugh, Joseph noticed something was strapped to his chest.

8:39Speaker 12:He's got something.

8:45Speaker 1:A wire fell from under his shirt.

8:49Speaker 8:No, no, praydom.

9:05Speaker 7:I had a baby. Joseph Our child cried for you the little boy who lost his wife. Hearing you talk, oh my hand.

9:23Speaker 1:Hours later, Joseph took Madame you home when they reached the villa. You're really told you yet what had happened, and then waited in the garden room.

9:59Speaker 8:M How is she too yet?

10:02Speaker 10:She wants you to leave, mister Sherman.

10:05Speaker 8:Yes, yes, of course I'll come back later.

10:09Speaker 10:That's okay, She says, you have brought this family sadness too many times, and my mother would still be alive if you hadn't insisted she go to that meeting.

10:20Speaker 8:I didn't what.

10:23Speaker 10:You didn't? What are you going to rewrite history now, mister Sherman.

10:31Speaker 8:I loved her too too, yet she.

10:33Speaker 13:Didn't want to be a capitalist. That was you killed her.

10:43Speaker 8:I booked a ticket to bring you back to America.

10:47Speaker 12:What are you talking about?

10:49Speaker 8:Just listen to me please for a second. Can you please listen?

10:54Speaker 13:You can't just take me back to America. Who the hell do you think you are?

10:57Speaker 8:I am your father too yet, and Vietnam is not psych you know Vietnam.

11:03Speaker 13:All you do is appear every few years and write about us like with some sort of curiosity. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything, all the corruption, all the exploitation, and I'm going to be part of it.

11:28Speaker 3:Okay.

11:31Speaker 1:Joseph could see that Land had been right. It was hopeless trying to change to Yette's mind. She was beyond reach. Land had been the love of his life and losing to yet would double the blow. But when they met again a few days later at Land's funeral, it would be the last contact they'd have for many years. Joseph flew back to America again and didn't return to Vietnam until he was sent there by Associated Press in nineteen sixty three.

12:12Speaker 2:Let on right or lay You've gotten to be?

12:15Speaker 6:John Glenna.

12:18Speaker 1:The nineteen sixties brought in a time of change, and America started courting the wider world with a new president, John F. Kennedy and a fresh outlook.

12:30Speaker 2:That's the word go bought from this time and late to a friend and full alike that we You'll pay any price, there, any burden, meet any hard gift, co bought any brand up, Oh any foe? Who are You're? The survival? Canne success of.

12:52Speaker 1:Limity in Vietnam. The forces fighting for liberty were Communists, while the supposed democracy America supported was an unelected and very unpopular government, a situation that attracted journalists from all over the world.

13:22Speaker 2:Although Premier Key has restored order in some sections of his torn republic.

13:25Speaker 14:This is Miami, Howell and I am a few blocks from the presidential palace.

13:30Speaker 2:In Psycho First demonstrations broke out one students, Buddhists and other group's protests as acusing.

13:35Speaker 14:His own people is making his position more precarious by the day.

13:39Speaker 7:Aigon remains a city of violence and unresk the administrations in this former French colony.

13:44Speaker 14:French rule in Vietnam was hated for decades, but now America is only one step away from taking on the same role. Could history repeat itself.

13:58Speaker 2:And was great?

14:01Speaker 1:Navy, Naomi Howell and Todd Shashka were a news team working for British movie Tone Moments.

14:07Speaker 12:Would you want to Get It? But he gives him an hour or so to get to the palace.

14:11Speaker 14:I've got an old friend to meet and we might as well let the crowd LB cups in the passion see what the palace about?

14:16Speaker 3:Midday Yeah, Joe.

14:19Speaker 1:Naomi hurried to a small cafe where an old friend was waiting.

14:25Speaker 8:Joseph, Naomi House, Thanks, keeping busy.

14:33Speaker 12:Well, just having a break from covering the Buddhist demonstration.

14:36Speaker 8:What about you, Yeah, filing on the same thing for Associated Press.

14:41Speaker 12:Do you think it'll make President DM change anything.

14:44Speaker 8:Nope, He'll probably just get his brother to arrest as many poor suckers as he can go.

14:49Speaker 1:So during the late fifties, President DM's gangster like brother, Nodan New had formed a secret special force, which was now just adding.

14:59Speaker 12:To the chaos. What do you make of New?

15:02Speaker 8:He's dangerously autocratic and Washington doesn't like it.

15:06Speaker 12:It feels like something's about to break.

15:09Speaker 8:Yeah, it could all go to hell very quickly. Ah, here he is. I hope you don't mind. My son's on R and R and I thought he could join us absolutely. Gary here, Hey, yeah, yeah, take a seat, Naomi. This is Lieutenant Gary Sherman.

15:27Speaker 7:Hi.

15:28Speaker 8:Naomi's out here from the UK.

15:29Speaker 15:Oh right, the movie tone girl.

15:32Speaker 12:Thanks, Joseph, Is that how you talk about me?

15:36Speaker 8:That's true, don't worry.

15:37Speaker 15:He also calls you an island of sanity in a river of madness.

15:42Speaker 14:All right, I'll take that. So, have you been out on patrol fighting the Viet cong fighting me.

15:51Speaker 15:No, I'm sorry, Naomi, but our president has made it very clear. The only Americans here at the moment are the military advisors to the South Vietnamese Army.

15:59Speaker 12:Oh, sixteen thousand of you.

16:02Speaker 15:Well, they need a lot of advice.

16:04Speaker 12:And where about weren't.

16:07Speaker 15:You East Mekong Delta? Usual thing looking for communist sympathizers find any Oh?

16:15Speaker 9:Hell yeah?

16:16Speaker 4:Everywhere?

16:17Speaker 15:Our platoon was attacked seven times, three dead, nine wounded. We're not winning, I'll tell you that is.

16:25Speaker 14:Any of this on the record, No, God, no, could it be. You'd be up for an interview, wouldn't you, Gary?

16:34Speaker 3:Uh?

16:35Speaker 8:Look, I'd need permission, which you face it, you'll never get.

16:40Speaker 12:Why not?

16:41Speaker 15:Oh, come on, Naomi, it is pretty unlikely.

16:44Speaker 14:Okay, okay, okay, okay. Off the record. Then why do you think we're not winning?

16:55Speaker 15:Because ninety percent of the country doesn't want us here and this sort of democracy were given them looks terrible.

17:01Speaker 12:What if we sold it better?

17:02Speaker 15:I wish it were that simple, trust me. But yeah, Look, don't get me wrong. I don't want to see the commies win. They're just bastards. But the whole country's a never ending surprise packet. You think you can read it, and then you get a curveball.

17:19Speaker 2:In fact that.

17:22Speaker 15:Let me tell you about the last curveball. The final day on patrol, we were clearing minds the French had left behind, and some VCS took us by surprise, both flanks, total ambush, took out our captain. We scattered and called for a huie, and then a whole bunch more started pouring out of the tunnels everywhere. Yeah, they've dug them all over the place. And I was ducking and running and this girl popped out of the ground in front of me. Oh, black Viat Cong gear pants, top for my pistol, but she already had hers aimed at my head.

18:04Speaker 11:And then.

18:07Speaker 3:Then it was so weird.

18:12Speaker 8:Did you take her down?

18:14Speaker 2:No?

18:16Speaker 3:I couldn't. Neither of us could because she.

18:21Speaker 15:I mean we both.

18:24Speaker 3:We could both feel it.

18:26Speaker 8:We were like.

18:28Speaker 15:Looking at ourselves.

18:29Speaker 12:No, what do you mean?

18:32Speaker 3:Have you still got that photo of two yet? Yeah?

18:35Speaker 15:Who my half sister two yet? Dad had a daughter here with a Viet girl before we met Mom.

18:43Speaker 8:Uh you slyile dull. There you go. She would have been about nineteen then, I mean she might have changed.

18:53Speaker 3:No, she hasn't.

18:58Speaker 14:It was definitely her your half sisters Viet Cong and you nearly killed each other.

19:07Speaker 12:Now, I've really wanted an interview.

19:10Speaker 9:Did you know she was VC?

19:13Speaker 7:She dad?

19:17Speaker 8:Not exactly, well, not for certain. But the last time we spoke.

19:21Speaker 3:She she what what'd she say?

19:34Speaker 1:The last time Joseph spoke to his daughter too Yet had been seven long years ago, on the morning of her mother Land's funeral procession in nineteen fifty six. Following tradition, a single bamboo flautist had led the way as the coffins of Land and her father were carried from the villa to the family tomb. Joseph had waited on the curb outside, and as everyone left the house, Madam Hugh had ignored him.

20:04Speaker 10:But to yet you're not welcome, Joseph.

20:10Speaker 9:I loved her.

20:10Speaker 12:Too, Yet I don't care.

20:13Speaker 10:You caused all her unhappiness. You shouldn't even be here.

20:19Speaker 7:What do you mean?

20:20Speaker 8:I'm your father, I mean all.

20:22Speaker 12:Of you, not just you, all Americans.

20:26Speaker 13:What are you even doing here?

20:27Speaker 1:It's not your country.

20:28Speaker 12:Just go home?

20:29Speaker 8:No, I will, I am, But come with me, Yeah, come with You're half American too, Yet you know I'm not Oh, Okay, okay, well come back, you come back and see? Why not just try it? Yeah? Let me let me look look after you come back.

20:47Speaker 13:And why do Americans think everyone wants to be American?

20:52Speaker 10:You're all so self censored.

20:55Speaker 12:I don't look at you as a father.

20:57Speaker 8:But that can change. People can change too. Yet, let me try. I can try harder, it won't.

21:05Speaker 12:There's the man I look at as a father.

21:10Speaker 3:Who come.

21:13Speaker 1:She led him to the back of the procession, where a thin bearded man walked alone. Kim Land's brother to Yette's uncle. He and Joseph had one spot together to defeat the Japanese, and he was now one of Hoji Minh's trusted deputies.

21:34Speaker 9:How did you even.

21:36Speaker 8:You wanted terrorists? If I call the police right now, would.

21:42Speaker 16:You, though, Joseph, is that what you want to do?

21:47Speaker 3:No? I know you.

21:48Speaker 16:Could you have betrayed friends before?

21:51Speaker 8:Well?

21:52Speaker 16:Did Paul de Vroo ever discover how you betrayed him?

21:55Speaker 9:With my sister?

21:56Speaker 16:It's a complicated Did you ever have the courage to face that conversation?

22:02Speaker 8:Betraying me?

22:03Speaker 16:However, we mean betraying your daughter as well? Can you do that? I think not even Americans have a grain of loyalty to something to you. Please drive us say nothing no more, let us bury our beautiful lane.

22:25Speaker 4:And then do it.

22:26Speaker 16:It's coming with me, Come on, do it.

22:32Speaker 9:Good Bye, Joseph.

22:48Speaker 8:That was seven years ago now, but I remember thinking even then, how could too yet have possibly got a message to her uncle about her mother?

23:02Speaker 15:She was already in the Viet Con Almost certainly my sister's the enemy.

23:11Speaker 8:Wow, well, I suppose so politically. But on the other hand, you know, personally, I think it says a lot that neither of you could shoot the other. That is such a relief. And if you ever sat down together, you might even find you like each other. Not everyone's the enemy.

23:32Speaker 14:Say that again. I've got no idea who the enemy is. I came out here thinking it was communism. But then you're backing a president who's locking up Buddhists and burning their temples.

23:43Speaker 12:Do you really want to be on his side? I'm confused?

23:47Speaker 3:Yeah, me too, now know me? Hi Todd, Oh, come on, we gotta go.

23:54Speaker 11:Those demonstrators aren't going to the palace. They're stopping at Fandine from Boulevard.

23:58Speaker 3:Why.

23:58Speaker 11:I don't know, but something's happening gotta get there.

24:01Speaker 8:Okay, Okay, well I suppose a pr to cover it too.

24:04Speaker 12:Let's go then you're coming, Gary, Sure.

24:09Speaker 2:I'm ahead.

24:10Speaker 15:Hey, Nailmi, do you need a hand with your backpack?

24:17Speaker 12:Thanks?

24:18Speaker 14:Someone brought you up.

24:19Speaker 4:Well.

24:20Speaker 15:Yeah, she was a good mom and he wasn't too bad either.

24:27Speaker 8:You all right, Joseph, Yeah, you go ahead, I'll catch up.

24:32Speaker 12:Yeah, what's happening, Todd? What's going on?

24:36Speaker 14:Any idea?

24:37Speaker 11:All I heard was they thought if they went to the Palace they'd just get bashed up by news special forces, so they've come here instead. I think you'll buy them time to protest properly.

24:47Speaker 15:And what are they gonna do? Just sit here and chat it?

24:49Speaker 11:Think they've got something planned?

24:51Speaker 12:Okay, well let's get an intro. Where's a good spot here?

24:56Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good.

24:57Speaker 11:I've got the intersection behind you.

24:58Speaker 8:Okay, made it. What's happening?

25:01Speaker 11:Yeah, we're not sure to roll?

25:03Speaker 12:Yeah, we shall get something to one.

25:08Speaker 14:This is Naomi Howell for Movie Tone moments covering the demonstrations today on fanding Fun Boulevard.

25:15Speaker 12:Hold On, hold On.

25:18Speaker 14:A car has just stopped in the middle of the road. One of the monks is sitting on a cushion and two other monks.

25:29Speaker 12:What are they pouring on him?

25:33Speaker 8:What the hell is this about?

25:40Speaker 12:He's holding matches, He's he's just lit.

25:49Speaker 1:The Buddhist monk had dropped the match in his lap and was engulfed in flames.

25:56Speaker 8:Oh my god, what.

25:58Speaker 12:Are you getting this?

26:00Speaker 3:Yet?

26:03Speaker 14:He's not moving, he's showing. He's showing, no pain, no screaming, nothing. No one's trying to save him.

26:14Speaker 12:He's he's he's burning to death.

26:20Speaker 9:Oh God, there's.

26:22Speaker 13:A fire coming to this country and it's going to bring out everything.

26:29Speaker 1:Joseph Sherman just stared too. Yet had been right. A great fire had come to Vietnam. Within six months, Presidents DM and Kennedy would both be dead, and America's new President, Lyndon Johnson wasn't going to settle for sending advisors. The American war in Vietnam would soon overwhelm the world.

27:18Speaker 5:Saigon is a production of Thoroughbred Studios, Goldhog Productions, and iHeart Podcasts starring Kelly, Marie Trann and Rob Benedict. Based on the best selling novel Cigon by Anthony Gray. It is created for audio by Greg Hadrick and Jeremy Fox. Written by Greg Hadrick and directed by John Scott Dryden. Original music is by Sasha Putnam, with additional performances by nor mgnir and Lettipic. Cheer editing and sound design is by Elouise Whitmore. The series producer is Emma Hern. The producer in Vietnam is Fatmungnhen. The executive producers are Jeremy Fox, Greg Hadrick, John Scott Dryden, Howard Stringer and Jason English