Chapter 3 – Lost Daughter

0:05Speaker 1:My name is Trim and this is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us.

0:14Speaker 2:The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great ape over.

0:21Speaker 3:Another time.

0:23Speaker 4:Or a naturally expo And I brought on the commuty.

0:35Speaker 5:Land a bad bady battle.

0:37Speaker 3:Don't landed e bable.

0:39Speaker 6:That can be no peace without justice, And that can be no justice without peace.

0:49Speaker 1:Chapter three.

1:05Speaker 2:Yesterday Besembus nineteen forty one, a date which will live in infamy. The United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and their courses of the Empire of Japan.

1:31Speaker 1:America had stayed out of the wars in Europe and Asia until the attack on Pearl Harbor. Then they were all in and immediately began calling up every able bodied American willing to fight for freedom and liberty. Which is how Joseph Sherman came to be flying a p from the famous Flying Tiger Squadron based in Kunming, China.

1:57Speaker 7:Yeah, this is Flying Tiger RB five to kod Mean Air Base Coon Mean, can you read me?

2:06Speaker 5:I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire.

2:10Speaker 8:Leaking oil.

2:11Speaker 7:I got low fuel pressure, No got engine failure, losing altitude to me, you.

2:24Speaker 5:Read me, you can't get can't be stuck? Is anyone hearing me?

2:33Speaker 6:Coon me.

2:36Speaker 8:Could me?

2:37Speaker 7:I'm somewhere near that trying to Vietnam boarder and sell the jungle Down there I.

2:40Speaker 1:Can parachuting into jungle trees knocked Joseph unconscious. When he woke, he was on the floor of a wooden hut, covered by a soft blanket.

3:24Speaker 9:Ah, you're awake.

3:28Speaker 5:Where am I?

3:29Speaker 9:You're safe? Joseph. You're in Packba, northern Tonkin, about a kilometer south of the Chinese border. Some Loong tribesmen found you.

3:40Speaker 3:And brought you here.

3:42Speaker 1:Joseph stared at the man talking to him. He was thin with a wispy beard.

3:48Speaker 9:And yet are you I can't be yes, it's me Kim. We heard a few days ago from a local commander that an American had crashed in the jungle, and he gave his name, and here I am my friend.

4:08Speaker 5:I don't know how to thank you. You saved my life.

4:15Speaker 9:We share a common enemy. And now you can find another day. Keep resting. I will be back soon.

4:26Speaker 1:In a few minutes, Kim returned with a man who looked like an older version of himself, thin of hair and stature, but with piercing eyes.

4:37Speaker 4:Ah, mister Sherman brought an honor to meet a pilot from the famous Flying Tiger Squadron.

4:45Speaker 5:Thank you, thank you, sir. I'm in your debt.

4:51Speaker 4:My name is Jorchi mean they called me Alcoho and we are the vietname and the lions are paid is fighting to liberate our country. We're waiting guerrilla warfare against the Japanese outposts in this region.

5:08Speaker 2:Just like you.

5:09Speaker 4:You could say we are brothers.

5:14Speaker 5:What about the French? Do they help help us? Not at all?

5:21Speaker 4:The surrender to Japan and then supported invasion. We hope when Japan is defeated, the French will accept our independence. But if they do not, well, the America is our inspiration. It was the first colony in the world to win independence through revolution. If it must, our little country will emulate that deed.

5:49Speaker 5:That sounds determined.

5:51Speaker 4:Oh, Vietnam will win independence, mister Sherman. But in the short term, we're asking you to carry a message back to your American commanders at the airbase in Quinming.

6:05Speaker 10:Well, I would if I, but how can I if we're in talking it must be a long way, yes, about two hundred kilometers.

6:18Speaker 4:Comrade came, well, and sure you make it back. Then you can tell them about us and what we are doing to repel the Japanese, and how much more we could do for America if we had jeeps, machine guns, grenades, radios.

6:37Speaker 10:Of course, I'll do my best. I can't promise that they'll listen, but I'll give it everything I got.

6:46Speaker 4:Yes, we understand that.

6:50Speaker 5:Do the best you can.

6:52Speaker 4:Comrade Kim has spoken highly of you, and take care, mister Sherman.

7:00Speaker 5:Yes, thank you, thank you.

7:05Speaker 9:Don't worry, Jose, It'll be a few more days before.

7:09Speaker 5:We leave, Kim. I can I just ask about land.

7:21Speaker 8:My sister?

7:22Speaker 5:Yes, do you have any news, any news at all?

7:30Speaker 9:I suppose she has stayed in Sego, but I haven't heard from her since the day my father threw me out.

7:38Speaker 10:She said she was going to marry Paul de Rou That was nine years ago. You remember, Paul, I.

7:44Speaker 9:Remember all the difference. My father used to grovel to them all the time.

7:50Speaker 3:It made me sick?

7:55Speaker 5:Was it you come? I have to know me what Paul's father? Did you kill Paul's father?

8:03Speaker 8:Paul?

8:06Speaker 5:Paul didn't think you could, but you were the last person seen with him.

8:15Speaker 9:Joseph, the people it's will killed Jack Diville. That's the truth. You should try standing up. We'd have to get stronger so we can start the journey. Yeah, I give you a hand.

8:37Speaker 5:Yes.

8:38Speaker 2:Good.

8:45Speaker 1:It would be another week before they left the gorilla camp at Pac Foe, and three weeks before they finally reached the Flying Tiger air base that cut Ming. Then, after hearing Joseph out, America did join force with Ho Chi Min's Vietnamese nationalists. It is one of the least known quirks of history. America supplied Ho Chi Minh with equipment, weaponry, and three US advisors, one being Joseph Sherman, who spent months back in the Pacbo jungle training Ho Chi Min's rebel army. Together, America and Ho Chi Minh did drive the Japanese out of Vietnam, and by late nineteen forty five their defeat was complete. A month after the devastation of Hiroshima, a triumphant Ho Chi Minh marched into Hanoi and opened his victory speech by quoting from America's Declaration of independence. For more than eighty years, he continued, the French imperialist abusing the standard of liberty, equality and fraternity, have violated our fatherland and oppressed our fellow citizens. Hoe then recounted how the French had capitulated to the Japanese in nineteen forty, and how it had been his Vietnam nationalists,

10:21Speaker 1:with America's help, who had finally freed Vietnam. For these reasons, Hoe concluded, we, the members of the Provisional Government, declare that from now on we abolish all the special rights the French have unlawfully acquired in our fatherland. We are convinced. He finished that the Allied nations, which have acknowledged the principles of self determination, will not refuse to acknowledge the independence of Vietnam. Unfortunately, Hoe's can was misplaced. He wrote three letters to President Truman seeking American recognition for his Provisional Government and never received a reply. Meanwhile, the French were telling everyone that Vietnam was still rightfully theirs. By the time Joseph returned to Saigon as a liaison officer between the Vietman and the American army, no one was sure who was governing what anywhere in Vietnam.

11:32Speaker 8:Can I park here?

11:33Speaker 1:Yeah, But Joseph also knew that in a world of change, some things stay the same. And as the sun set, he was pretty sure that if Paul Devereux was in town an off duty.

11:49Speaker 5:Joseph Sherman, Paul, I knew i'd find you here.

11:54Speaker 1:He would probably be in the terrace cafe of the Continental Palace Hotel.

11:58Speaker 5:Some thing's never changed. Find the best table in town.

12:01Speaker 6:Mon dieu, of all the people, how long has it been? Can't believe you're back a drink?

12:08Speaker 8:Yes?

12:09Speaker 10:Thanks, Yeah, I've been up in the north for a couple of years now. I signed up to the Air Force. I got posted out to kuon Ming.

12:17Speaker 6:Well, I'm glad they let you come down to Saigon before sending you home.

12:21Speaker 5:Yeah, you know it feels different this time.

12:24Speaker 6:The world work and have that effect on the place.

12:26Speaker 10:True, true, true, But still it used to welcome builders. Yeah, Now everyone looks suspicious, like they don't know who's on what side.

12:34Speaker 6:Well, the Americans left Lison Gli in charge after Japan was beaten, but they're about to hand it back to us, so it won't be too long before everything gets.

12:44Speaker 5:Back to normal, you think, So, what about the Viet Min.

12:48Speaker 1:What about them?

12:50Speaker 6:We can't let them run things? Why not, it'd be a recipe for chaos. Look, our army is back here properly. Now we know this country. Most Vietnamese want the French in charge.

13:03Speaker 5:Are you sure about that?

13:05Speaker 6:Come on, Joseph, of course they do. There is a loud, fanatical fringe we have to deal with, but they are just a fringe. Vietnam will only prosper when it's back under French control.

13:18Speaker 10:Well, you always were the optimist, Paul. I'm not sure the locals would agree with you.

13:23Speaker 6:But well, Sante, So how's land fine? As far as I know, you haven't seen that much of each other. Oh well, obviously I joined the army. I'm on constant tours of duty. But when everything settles down, we'll get back to a proper married life. She's staying with her parents at the moment. Our battalions off again tonight, flying up to Hanoi. I won't see her for another three months at least. Enough aut me. What about you, Joseph? Married children?

14:04Speaker 5:Well, yes, married to Marilyn. Ah, we have a son, and we have a place.

14:10Speaker 1:Joseph briefly recounted the last nine years, but with little passion. He had married a Californian woman and settled into a tolerable state of affairs. The following morning, he drove his army issue jeep straight to the Hugh family villa.

14:30Speaker 9:Ah.

14:31Speaker 5:Madame Hugh, how are you?

14:35Speaker 11:Yes?

14:35Speaker 10:Oh, sorry, I know it's been a long time, but we have met before. It's Joseph Sherman. Oh, I was briefly here eight or gosh nine years ago, and our two families spent some time together a decade before that.

14:49Speaker 11:When my father brought us out, I didn't recognize you.

14:56Speaker 5:Yes, well, it's been a long war.

14:58Speaker 10:I probably don't look like the young man you remember, and I should not have assumed you would. My apologies, but yeah, I have such fond memories of your whole family, Madame Hugh, then especially your wonderful daughter Land. And when I posted back here for a few weeks, I thought I should drop in and say.

15:15Speaker 11:Hello, did you, Monsieur Sherman.

15:20Speaker 5:Well, yes, yes, I.

15:25Speaker 11:You might have fond memories, but I'm afraid we do not. Goodbye.

15:29Speaker 5:Don't wait, I don't understand.

15:33Speaker 11:We do not have fond memories of your last visit. You made our daughter very unhappy and then disappeared.

15:40Speaker 5:No, I didn't.

15:42Speaker 10:She was marrying Paul Devreux. How could I make her unhappy? Please go, I would never want to see your daughter unhappy.

15:49Speaker 5:Please please, Madame Hugh. I must, I must, I have to know what I did. I cannot now no.

16:00Speaker 8:Very well.

16:03Speaker 5:Waiting there, thank you.

16:05Speaker 12:I will tell Land. She has a visitor.

16:09Speaker 1:That night one night that I'm going here?

16:13Speaker 12:Is that Ombia.

16:28Speaker 11:Joseph?

16:31Speaker 5:Hello, La, you've lost eight ah, Yes, diet the second casualty of war, the.

16:47Speaker 11:Tacomah.

16:53Speaker 10:I saw Paul last night. This is my first time back in Saigon. He said you were here, so I had to come. Even though you never answered my letters, you did get my letters. I thought of you often, lend more than I should admit. I didn't know what to think when you never replied.

17:20Speaker 11:It was impossible.

17:21Speaker 5:It's impossible.

17:26Speaker 11:You have a wedding ring?

17:27Speaker 10:Well, yes, but that that wasn't until I mean, it was three years after I had left. I'd heard nothing. I believe there was nothing. Her name's Marilyn. We have a son Gary.

17:43Speaker 5:She's a good woman, but not like you. No one's like you, Lenn, don't. How's life with Paul, it is what it had to be.

18:05Speaker 10:Your mother told me I made you very unhappy, but I loved you and you were marrying Paul. Then you never answered my letters.

18:15Speaker 5:Please, Landa. I just want to understand.

18:21Speaker 11:I had a baby, Joseph, Oh god, our child, a little girl, Oh my God. After you left, I found out I was pregnant and Joseph, you were the father. But I was marrying Paul, so I couldn't tell you that. But I couldn't lie, so I couldn't write. Paul knows nothing. He was away so much and my parents told him I was ill. I needed country air to recover before the wedding, so he never knew anything. No one did.

19:20Speaker 5:Where is she? I need to see her?

19:25Speaker 11:Wait here. Her name is too Yette. This is the only picture I have of her because of the shame he will bring on the family. My father gave her to a servant and paid for his silence with a house and a wife in one of the villages outside Hey. This was taken on her third birthday. I had begged to see her and my parents had refused, but finally my mother agreed to arrange for one photo. If I never mention her again she looks.

20:23Speaker 6:Like me.

20:25Speaker 11:Yes, she has your eyes.

20:30Speaker 5:Do you know where she is now?

20:33Speaker 11:I know where she was, But that whole stretch of coach in China is now in famine. The Japanese burns the crops as they retreated. There is no rice. I have spent the last few months thinking of nothing else, just worrying how she's surviving. Joseph, do you have a car?

20:59Speaker 5:H yes, right outside.

21:02Speaker 11:But help me, please help me find our daughter.

21:13Speaker 1:And in less than an hour they were heading north, driving through the middle of the country.

21:25Speaker 12:The further they.

21:26Speaker 1:Drove, the worse things looked. The land became burnt and barren, and signs of people in livestock were fewer and fewer. Finally, eight hours from Saigon, the occasional farmhouse gave way to a huddle of shops and huts on either side of the road. A lifeless silence hung heavily in the air.

21:51Speaker 11:Is this it? I'm not sure? Oh?

22:01Speaker 6:I know.

22:01Speaker 11:Is it's one of these places between here and Canton?

22:04Speaker 5:What's that?

22:07Speaker 4:Hi?

22:08Speaker 2:Yeah?

22:12Speaker 12:Come ye.

22:19Speaker 11:Made it?

22:21Speaker 5:Look what she's saying.

22:25Speaker 11:Yeah, she's saying. The Japanese destroyed all they could as they were treated and killed the adults burnt everything. Then the Allies swept through, and now there's nothing. She says, it's hell on earth.

22:57Speaker 1:The next three villages were the same, but at the fourth there was a grand old colonial hotel that had miraculously survived the devastation.

23:11Speaker 5:We've seen less than a dozen people in fifty kilometers. There's no one left.

23:17Speaker 11:We can't give up now, Joseph. We have to keep going. We must.

23:21Speaker 5:We need to get out of the rain.

23:22Speaker 8:At least.

23:23Speaker 5:Do you think that place over there is still in business.

23:26Speaker 11:It won't be America if it is all right.

23:29Speaker 5:Well, let's see.

23:43Speaker 8:Hello, anyone here, welcome a young ja home on those guests.

23:53Speaker 5:Hello, we wondered if you had a room available.

24:00Speaker 3:Let me see hmmm, yes, oh, it seems we have a room available for how many nights?

24:11Speaker 9:Yeah?

24:12Speaker 5:Just one night? Thank you?

24:14Speaker 8:Hmm.

24:16Speaker 3:Okay, and let me to arrange for your luggage to be taken up.

24:20Speaker 5:We have no luggage. Yeah, it's just just us, the.

24:23Speaker 3:Girl, Madam monsieur. If you will follow me, I will escort you to your suit.

24:29Speaker 11:Thank you.

24:32Speaker 3:Of course, we have seen better days.

24:36Speaker 13:Once we were known at the finest hotel in the province that could offer to release civilized compirsed.

24:43Speaker 3:Is discerning visitors.

24:45Speaker 2:Ah.

24:46Speaker 13:We had the top French administrators, politicians, sportsmen, those who came to head even loyalty. The grand ballroom mhm, the dancing, the music, sometime all night, such time they wear, Madam, It's just such time.

25:15Speaker 8:Ah, come.

25:29Speaker 3:Number sieur.

25:31Speaker 8:You should.

25:34Speaker 3:Towels are in the bathroom, extra blankets in the wardrobe.

25:39Speaker 5:Electricity no electricity issue.

25:42Speaker 3:We are waiting for the engineer.

25:44Speaker 2:But we have water.

25:50Speaker 8:Resting the pipes.

25:52Speaker 3:Let it run for a little and it will become clever.

25:55Speaker 5:Okay.

25:57Speaker 3:Is there anything else I can help you with?

26:00Speaker 9:No?

26:02Speaker 11:Everything is perfect.

26:04Speaker 3:Then I will leave you to settle. Dinner will be served in alf an hour.

26:10Speaker 9:Okay.

26:15Speaker 11:Well, we have a ceiling and a bed. We can make do what.

26:20Speaker 5:Could possibly be on the menu for dinner. You can't have any food left, Shirley.

26:30Speaker 1:They were dining by candlelight and with a flourish of culinary triumph.

26:36Speaker 14:Well, okay, a perfect jeury, Madame monsieur, hard boiled eggs and overcooked rice.

26:52Speaker 5:Not certainly a French culinary experience.

26:56Speaker 11:We will find you yet tomorrow. I can feel it, Joseph, someone will.

27:01Speaker 5:Help us yes, we may not, though, land We're not even sure where to look.

27:08Speaker 11:She's out there somewhere alone, frightened. Someone has to know something.

27:17Speaker 5:Well, I might know someone. We both know him. Actually, Oh, your brother.

27:28Speaker 11:Kim.

27:30Speaker 10:When I was shot down over Tong Kin and I spent a few weeks at the Viet Min rebel base in Puckbow, and.

27:38Speaker 11:Kim was there.

27:40Speaker 5:Yes, Oh my, how is he well, he's a trusted Viet Min comrade. He's high up in their structure.

27:52Speaker 11:I miss him. I was so upset when my father disowned him.

27:57Speaker 5:He misses you too, Lan. We talked of you often. He's well connected. He could help us find too. Yet, when we get back, I could try to reach him.

28:09Speaker 11:You have to, and he would help. I'm sure he would.

28:26Speaker 5:H Are you comfortable?

28:31Speaker 11:Yes, hold my hand. Listen to the rain. That reminds me of my childhood. M I used to listen to it and wonder if it would wash everything into the perfumed river, all my worries.

29:06Speaker 5:Did you hear that?

29:10Speaker 6:Here?

29:10Speaker 9:What?

29:11Speaker 2:Hm?

29:14Speaker 5:There's someone outside of our room. Let's just stay there. I'll be back.

29:20Speaker 7:What are you going to do?

29:22Speaker 4:Oh?

29:22Speaker 9:What?

29:23Speaker 8:Now? Money?

29:25Speaker 2:Give me?

29:26Speaker 11:What?

29:27Speaker 8:Give me money? Didn't get money.

29:30Speaker 12:Don't argue, Joseph.

29:31Speaker 11:They have nice.

29:34Speaker 5:Okay, okay, all right, okay, money more money, Okay, hold on, come on, come on.

29:52Speaker 11:My Yeah, you carry a gun.

30:01Speaker 5:I'm in the military land, of course I do. We don't make it obvious, but I'm always armed.

30:06Speaker 12:Who were they?

30:06Speaker 11:Do you think?

30:07Speaker 1:Not just these?

30:09Speaker 5:It's a country full of desperate people.

30:11Speaker 11:They had machetes. Wait, where are you going south?

30:19Speaker 5:No, Joseph, we have to keep Look, we can't land. It's hopeless.

30:38Speaker 1:As dawn broke, we were back in the first village they drove through.

30:45Speaker 11:Look it's that woman again.

30:48Speaker 1:It was the same old woman they'd seen the day before.

30:53Speaker 5:I think she's all right. She's bleeding. Her face is bruised. Wait, la land Wait, Land.

31:07Speaker 12:That hit zoyady money light lamp loveday gone.

31:13Speaker 5:I'll move.

31:16Speaker 12:Please, she says. A gang of kids have been living in the caves. She thought they'd left, but they haven't. Whenever they get cold or hungry, they come out and steal whatever they can.

31:30Speaker 5:What caves where.

31:34Speaker 12:A donkey over there to the west, and.

32:00Speaker 5:The embers are warm. They must be close.

32:04Speaker 11:They are Look in the cave, what they're watching us, so should we go up there?

32:14Speaker 3:What do we do?

32:15Speaker 11:Let's see if we can make them come out? How food before we left to act, bananas, grapes, bread, Oh, nice thinking.

32:28Speaker 1:Joseph kept his eye on the cave as Land spread the snacks across the hood of the jeep.

32:34Speaker 12:We've brought food.

32:36Speaker 5:Do on, go on, go on, it's okay.

32:41Speaker 1:Almost immediately a pair of wide eyes appeared from the dark gloom of the cave's interior. Then another.

32:50Speaker 5:We're friends, bond friends, friends, Okay, come.

32:56Speaker 1:It wasn't long before three boys carefully inged forwards.

33:00Speaker 5:I think they're coming.

33:01Speaker 11:Eats food, Stay still, we don't want to scare them.

33:08Speaker 5:Oh look, there are others. Get more of the food out. That's good, that's good.

33:15Speaker 4:God.

33:18Speaker 5:Oh they're scared. Step back, give them some space.

33:21Speaker 8:Good. Yeah.

33:24Speaker 11:Joseph looks a little girl on the left, hiding behind the other hand. She looks different in we know.

33:39Speaker 6:Is that.

33:43Speaker 11:To yet?

33:47Speaker 1:It took three days before they tempted the child close enough to take their food.

33:53Speaker 5:Yeah, Hi there, Yeah, that's it, have it? Yeah, there you go.

34:01Speaker 11:What's your name?

34:03Speaker 6:Me?

34:05Speaker 11:Ti?

34:05Speaker 5:Yet too yet?

34:09Speaker 6:Me?

34:10Speaker 5:Joseph, you too yet?

34:17Speaker 1:And it took a week before she trusted them enough to get into the jeep, and for the rest of her life there was always a splinter of doubt about the world around her. I know this because she was to be my mother, and Lane and Joseph are my grandparents. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's still so much to tell.

34:53Speaker 6:Zigon is a production of Thoroughbred Studios, gold Hog Productions and iHeart Podcasts, starring Kelly, Marie Trn and Rob Benedict.

35:01Speaker 5:Based on the best selling novel Cygone by Anthony Gray. It is created for audio by Greg Hadrick and Jeremy Fox, written by Greg Hadrick and directed by John Scott Dryden.

35:14Speaker 9:Original music is by Sasha Putnam, with additional performances by Non mgnir and Letipig Cheer.

35:21Speaker 5:Editing and sound design is by Elouise Whitmore.

35:25Speaker 6:The series producer is Emma Hernon.

35:27Speaker 5:The producer in Vietnam is Fatmung Nihen. The executive producers are Jeremy Fox, Greg Hadrick, John Scott Dryden, Howard Stringer and Jason English.