A Conversation about Cornell. This episode contains sensitive subject matter.

0:00Speaker 1:Hello, my loves. It is Lala Kent. I am here with Amber Childers and Sally Carson.

0:06Speaker 2:Hello, babes.

0:07Speaker 3:Hello.

0:08Speaker 1:Two of my most favorite women in the world. We decided to do this bonus episode because it's been an important topic for a very long time. But because of everything happening at Cornell with the Cornell 57 and Jane Doe, we just all felt very compelled to get on a mic and discuss our thoughts. And before we even jump into it, I find it very important to state that.

0:41Speaker 2:Jane Doe is everywhere.

0:45Speaker 3:Right? Yeah.

0:47Speaker 1:Because this has made headlines. It's all over our algorithms. It is all consuming. It's very triggering. I don't want people who have been through this. I have friends who have been through it. Amber, I know you have friends. Sally, I'm sure you do as well.

1:07Speaker 3:That, uh, yeah.

1:09Speaker 1:Jane Doe in this case is representing every single woman who has been through a horrendous rape, sexual assault, and I just don't want it to get lost in us focusing on this case and this case only. So we asked you guys, I opened up the comments section because I know this has affected many people. I have a friend, Janet, who opened up about her experience last season on The Valley.

1:42Speaker 2:I was so proud of her.

1:44Speaker 1:It opened up a lot of conversations that, you know, as a mother of two little girls, I just.

1:51Speaker 4:You know, I'm in fear.

1:52Speaker 2:I'm in a lot of fear.

1:54Speaker 1:Yeah. And Amber, you have kids that are of this age where they're like going out with their friends. Yeah.

2:02Speaker 5:I mean, I've dealt with some stuff even in middle school with my oldest one that was a big eye-opener of how important it is. And we'll dive into it of just teaching your kids what consent is, right? And how important it is to be able to say no and be okay with no.

2:22Speaker 2:And no is a full sentence.

2:25Speaker 5:Yeah.

2:28Speaker 1:Sally and I have a podcast called Sex Unlocked, and we have a heyday doing it. It is very sex positive. We talk about it all. It is very unfiltered. It is so important.

2:43Speaker 3:Yes.

2:43Speaker 1:For Sally and I to state that when we do that podcast, the biggest piece that I think is not spoken about is the fact that there is consent involved in every story that we talk about.

3:00Speaker 3:Absolutely.

3:01Speaker 1:And I think because we're doing this episode, it just made sense to not really have it as a podcast for untraditionally la-la and unlikely affair. It just needed to be an episode of its own where the three of us come together and have an important conversation. So I just want to talk about the latest facts on the Cornell case. Jane Doe alleges that seven men drugged and assaulted her for several hours in October 2024 at their Chi Phi fraternity house, and that was on campus. There were no criminal charges that were ever filed against the men.

3:38Speaker 1:Those named in the lawsuit have denied all wrongdoing. Cornell University is also named as a defendant in Doe's suit. The university has maintained that Cornell University police investigated the case thoroughly and that the school held its own Title IX investigation. A Title IX investigation is just basically an investigation that takes place on campus. There's no outside investigation, which as far as, you know, today, which is what, October 7th, I saw on the news that Cornell is still you know, opposing them bringing an outside investigation, which to me screams, we are going to maintain trying to cover this shit up, which does not fly with me or a lot of people that I've seen on the internet.

4:24Speaker 1:In the weeks that have followed the lawsuits filings, students have protested the university's response to the case. I loved seeing this this morning as well, that people, a part of the faculty have joined in with all of their signs. I'm like, you fucking go get them. New York Governor Kathy Hochul appointed State Attorney General Letitia James to lead criminal investigation into the rape case after sharp criticism of its handling. The case also has renewed national conversations over consent and sexual assault on college campuses. So some of you guys wrote in, and I wish that I could read every single comment because there were so many women that wrote in, I am Jane Doe. Mm-hmm.

5:07Speaker 2:Do you want to read the comments, Amber?

5:08Speaker 4:Yeah, I'll read the comments.

5:10Speaker 5:So some of the comments that we just grabbed from you guys are, I posted about my support for her and my own story of SA, and oh boy, the comments are disgusting. Saying it louder for people in the back, if you are deemed medically incapacitated, you cannot give consent. And that's something, obviously, we just talked about. This case fills me with so much rage, I could barely contain it. I hate this world we live in. After Brock Turner was left off easy, only serving three months of a six-month conviction, it only opened the door and sent the message that this was okay behavior, makes me sick. These kids need to be expelled and need to be locked up for a long time. God protect me from men who defend rapists. I don't even want to breathe the same air, let alone be friends with them. Why don't women report these things? You're seeing why in real time.

6:00Speaker 4:It's true.

6:02Speaker 5:And then thank you for addressing this. Those are just some of the comments that you received.

6:08Speaker 2:You know, it's just so true, though.

6:10Speaker 3:It's so true. I mean, I am also Jane Doe. I'm about to start crying because this fills me with so much rage, too. And I didn't speak up for eight years. I'm about to start crying. It's okay. It's just really hard to talk about. Because, you know, and I open up about it this season on Southern Charm. Like, I don't know if they're going to air it or not. But people don't understand, like, sometimes you get out of a situation like that. And I felt like it was my fault. And I had a boyfriend at the time.

6:50Speaker 3:I had felt like I cheated on him. Like, and it has taken eight years to finally be able to tell my parents. I mean, I told them this year. Mm-hmm. And they were, you know, and now you can't do anything about it because it's been so long. But it's just, it's, it's, everyone's like, why didn't you speak up? It's so hard to speak up because people might not believe you too. And you have to like face, you know, 50% of people being behind you and 50% of people thinking you're a liar. And it's just, it's hard. And I like really feel for her.

7:32Speaker 2:Oh, Sally, thank you for opening up about that.

7:35Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm really sorry that you experienced that.

7:38Speaker 3:Thank you. I'm like shaking.

7:41Speaker 4:No, thank you, Sally.

7:42Speaker 5:I think what I feel like enrages me when you see the comments and they're women and they're cutting down other women who have experienced this. And we already know like as women in this world, we're a minority. We always have been. We've always been fighting for our rights and but to hear other women deny you of your experience and make you feel like you're crazy, I mean, that has to be the worst feeling in the world.

8:13Speaker 2:Well, that makes sense.

8:14Speaker 4:Because we're supposed to support each other.

8:17Speaker 5:We're not supposed to agree always with the choices that we make and we're allowed to have our own opinions and differences. But at the end of the day, when it comes to this kind of stuff, Like, we have to have each other's backs. And, like, having women in the comments say some of these things, it's like, fuck you.

8:38Speaker 4:Like, we do not.

8:39Speaker 5:Like, you're disgusting to me. Like, for a woman to say something.

8:43Speaker 3:Those are the people that are making it hard for others to speak their truth. You're exactly right. I mean, it's just, it's horrible what some people are saying. Well, and....

8:57Speaker 1:You know, I hate when I see a DM that says, we don't know the full story.

9:02Speaker 2:I don't need to.

9:04Speaker 1:Yeah.

9:05Speaker 2:I don't need to know their side.

9:08Speaker 1:When I see that she was drunk or on drugs, she's in college. She should be able to go. And not only is she at college, she's at a top of the line school she should be able to go blow off some fucking steam and have experiences and have her community go jane is you know she's messed up right now you know we need to baby her you know make sure she's okay that's not the okay to take her into a room and do whatever the fuck you want and let me tell you my kid comes home and tells me about an experience like this Just so you know, if your son is the one that did it, I am Theon.

9:58Speaker 2:Greyjoy and KZ.

10:00Speaker 3:Ass.

10:00Speaker 2:All right. Call me fucking Ramsey Bolton.

10:03Speaker 1:Your child now lives in my basement for me to torture for the rest of his fucking life.

10:07Speaker 2:Period.

10:08Speaker 1:I don't care if my daughter walked in there fully fucking naked, obliterated out of her mind, unless she gave you The consent to say, yeah, I'll participate in her right frame of mind.

10:20Speaker 2:I don't care what she's wearing. I don't care if she's on drugs. I don't care if she's drunk. Keep your fucking hands off of her. I'm shaking.

10:29Speaker 3:Yeah, me too.

10:30Speaker 4:Yeah, I get it. It's scary. It's scary.

10:32Speaker 5:I had this experience and trust me, it changed me as a.

10:39Speaker 4:Mom and as a woman.

10:40Speaker 5:And I'm like, it is our responsibility to, as parents to teach our sons.

10:49Speaker 4:What no means.

10:51Speaker 5:It is the first word that they should learn as, as young men growing up in this country, like no means no.

10:59Speaker 4:And the fact that there was seven of them, I can't even get over that.

11:02Speaker 5:There was seven and not one in the group chat.

11:07Speaker 4:Was there 57?

11:08Speaker 3:There was 57 guys in the group chat on Snapchat.

11:11Speaker 1:That's why people are saying enough of the Cornell seven. It is Cornell 57 because there were 57 members of that fraternity in that group chat.

11:21Speaker 2:And seven participated. But let me tell you something.

11:25Speaker 1:You don't get to claim innocence if you saw that shit and did nothing.

11:29Speaker 3:And didn't speak up. That makes me sick.

11:31Speaker 5:Not one person on that text message thread or Snapchat thread said, hey guys, what the fuck, this is not okay.

11:38Speaker 3:Yeah. Not one. Not one. The shop still open makes me seriously sick to my stomach. Like, I don't know how someone could say that and not, I just don't get it. I don't understand it. And like not speak up. Especially like, 57 members, not one of you. Like, insane.

12:01Speaker 2:Yeah.

12:12Speaker 1:So Jane Doe's allegations in the complaint, she arrived at Chi Phi visibly intoxicated to see her friend Matthew Ingalls. She alleges they pressured her to take ketamine, supplied marijuana and liquor, and forced oral and vaginal sex. She alleges further non-consensual intercourse after Lopes entered. She alleges he sent a Snapchat invitation advertising her availability for sex, repeatedly groped her despite her pushing his hand away, and commanded her to snort more ketamine. She alleges he grabbed her face and kissed her without consent.

12:51Speaker 2:She pushed him away.

12:52Speaker 1:All seven, she alleges, they poured ketamine onto her body and snorted it. She alleges they moved her into another room, instructed her to take more ketamine, then forced oral and vaginal sex while she.

13:04Speaker 2:Was completely incapacitated. She says she subsequently lost consciousness.

13:10Speaker 5:All I know is this, is we have a big problem in this country with universities, fraternities, and the shit.

13:17Speaker 4:That happens on these campuses.

13:20Speaker 1:We're living in a world where Our children are less important than upholding the Ivy League representation and title of a university.

13:36Speaker 2:My child can be drugged and brutally gang raped.

13:42Speaker 1:And the only thing that is going to matter is that the school still looks clean and pretty.

13:49Speaker 5:I was just looking up the stats of what Once you're released or your name's taken off a list, what is the repeat offender, right? And it is so high right now that it says one in 13 were arrested for rape and sexual assault within nine years of leaving prison.

14:09Speaker 4:So it's just like letting these people out.

14:11Speaker 3:And they're just going to do the same thing.

14:14Speaker 4:Not that we're talking about prison reform. I do believe in that.

14:16Speaker 5:But it's like they're just going to go out and do the same thing if they don't get the proper help.

14:20Speaker 2:I get so eye for an eye. You're a sex offender. You lose your dick.

14:26Speaker 5:Yeah.

14:26Speaker 2:You no longer have access. Here's your colostomy bag. Good luck in the world. And then we never have to worry about it. Don't ever be a repeat offender.

14:34Speaker 4:And think about this.

14:36Speaker 1:And if you used your hands, those are gone too, which you most likely did.

14:39Speaker 2:So now you're handless and dickless.

14:41Speaker 4:They do that in another country, right?

14:43Speaker 2:Well, we should start taking that on.

14:44Speaker 5:Yeah, I agree.

14:45Speaker 3:Honestly, yeah.

14:46Speaker 5:I have a child who's neurodivergent and has high-functioning autism. Do you think that I want to send her off to a university?

14:53Speaker 2:No.

14:54Speaker 5:She's already such a fragile, beautiful human being. And to put someone like that in the face of these... Children, because they are children, with no frontal cortex that's fully developed in that kind of situation. Can you imagine going to college and trying to navigate these situations with boys?

15:14Speaker 1:No.

15:14Speaker 2:Never. Never.

15:16Speaker 6:Never.

15:16Speaker 5:It makes me, and I'm like, I'm trying to navigate this with her right now saying like, honey, like maybe we just do like a trade school because I have so much fear for going out in the world without the proper tools and to know what's like right from wrong. Like I can't even, and then you put drugs and alcohol on top of all of that.

15:35Speaker 4:It's like, it's not safe. It is not safe.

15:38Speaker 1:And when I say no, I want you to know, like you know how much I love London. She's so beautiful and bright and, and emotionally intelligent, but it, the real world is intense and you want people to like you and think you're cool and you want to be accepted.

15:55Speaker 2:You want all of those things, no matter who you are. And then you add her.

16:02Speaker 1:Being on the spectrum and you just have to baby her more than you have to baby your other child.

16:10Speaker 5:And by the way, even typical kids think of Going from high school into college, you want to be accepted. You want to be an adult, but you're scared shitless, and you do things that you don't want to do.

16:22Speaker 4:Can you imagine?

16:23Speaker 5:I know so many people who has 11th and 12th grader females right now, and it's a tough time to be a kid. And then you throw them into college. It's like you're drowning. Just trying to survive. And then imagine trying to take care of your kid when they're on the other side of the country doing that.

16:40Speaker 1:Oh my God.

16:40Speaker 5:You can't just run, get in the car and you're 20 minutes away from the college.

16:43Speaker 4:You're like, you know, I.

16:46Speaker 2:Let me tell you something. My kid calls me, I'm on a fucking rocket ship.

16:48Speaker 1:Yeah.

16:49Speaker 2:And your son is now deemed unsafe as fuck.

16:51Speaker 1:Yeah.

16:52Speaker 2:Just so you know.

16:54Speaker 4:Yeah.

16:54Speaker 1:Because I ain't sitting around waiting for the justice system to do its job.

16:58Speaker 5:Even as women, as an adult, single mom that I am, when I started going out, Before I got sober, I was drinking and I realized I was putting myself in positions with these men that I had met on Raya or through friends.

17:14Speaker 4:And I said to myself, like, Amber, you have children. You cannot be getting wasted.

17:20Speaker 5:And that's one of the reasons that I got sober.

17:23Speaker 4:I was scared. I made myself really nervous because I would drink.

17:27Speaker 5:To take the edge off of going on a date. And next thing you know, one turned into two. And then next thing you know, I'm.

17:33Speaker 4:Like, wow, I.

17:34Speaker 5:I couldn't say no right now or I couldn't get this man off of me even if I tried.

17:40Speaker 1:Right.

17:40Speaker 5:Yeah.

17:41Speaker 3:That's scary.

17:42Speaker 4:So it doesn't matter what age you are.

17:43Speaker 3:I mean, that's why I typically date in like a friend group. I already know the guys, which gets me in more trouble eventually. But it's so hard to trust like a random man that you meet.

17:53Speaker 2:Of course.

17:55Speaker 1:Especially going through what you've been through, Sally.

17:57Speaker 3:Oh, and this man was like so put together and had everything. My point is that he did that. So you just never know. And you have to be safe out there.

18:19Speaker 1:You know, I have to give credit to the men who I have been intimate with. This one specifically who we've spoken about on the podcast, Sally.

18:31Speaker 2:You know him.

18:31Speaker 1:We've... been doing whatever it is we do for, you know, 12 plus years. And still to this day, when he comes to the house, it's not just a given that we're going to sleep together.

18:44Speaker 2:He always asks. And I feel, I feel very lucky.

18:52Speaker 1:I have the luxury of saying that I have never had a man touch me in a way that I don't want them to. I've never had a man pressure me to do something that I didn't want to do. And in this day and age, it is a luxury because no matter where you're standing, you are within feet of someone who is Jane Doe.

19:16Speaker 2:And that is a really, really hard pill to swallow.

19:22Speaker 1:And I posted this thing that was going everywhere and it said, protect our daughters. And it was crossed out and it said, educate your sons. And so many people were.

19:31Speaker 2:Like, do both. You need to do both. And it's like, bitch, I'm doing my part.

19:34Speaker 1:OK, I need people with sons to really teach them.

19:39Speaker 2:And when I look at the comments section with these women being like she was intoxicated, we don't know what she was wearing. Bitch, shut the fuck up. You're the problem. You're the problem.

19:50Speaker 6:And how as a woman could you sit there and need all the facts and not know the whole story and we'll make a judgment when we do you're a woman by the way and you can't put yourself in her position what.

20:04Speaker 2:The fuck is wrong with you yeah.

20:06Speaker 5:When I hear people say things like that I want to say to them, okay, just imagine this was your child.

20:13Speaker 4:How would your reaction change?

20:15Speaker 1:But that's what's so wild to me that people can't take one moment to say, what if this were me?

20:21Speaker 2:What if this was my daughter? What if this was my friend?

20:26Speaker 1:You know?

20:27Speaker 3:Yeah.

20:28Speaker 2:I just can't imagine living in that world.

20:30Speaker 1:There's not one time that I have seen something like this on the news where I've gone, got.

20:37Speaker 2:To get all the facts first. No, just I believe you, period.

20:44Speaker 5:I would love to know more about why Matthew and Jonathan were expelled specifically versus all the other guys.

20:52Speaker 1:Do you mind reading through what happened to each of the seven?

20:57Speaker 5:Yep, Matthew expelled, Jonathan expelled, Winston, two years suspension, several semesters of disciplinary probation upon return, no contact order with Jane Doe, required sexual harassment education.

21:09Speaker 2:So weird.

21:10Speaker 4:And reflection papers.

21:11Speaker 2:Oh, reflection papers.

21:13Speaker 4:I'd love to read that.

21:14Speaker 3:Let's reflect.

21:14Speaker 2:I'd love to read that.

21:17Speaker 4:We both just like totally sat up in our chairs.

21:19Speaker 2:Let me shift. Let me fucking shift.

21:21Speaker 4:Gileo, is that how?

21:22Speaker 3:Okay.

21:23Speaker 4:Three semester suspension. Three semester.

21:25Speaker 5:Okay. Two year probation. No contact order with Jane Doe. Requires sexual harassment education and reflection papers. Diego had already graduated barred from campus for three years. Scott, no contact order with Jane Doe required educational modules of sexual harassment, social media use of bystander intervention plus reflection papers. Scott, no contact order with Jane Doe required educational modules of sexual harassment, social media use and bystander intervention plus reflection papers.

21:54Speaker 3:That's insane. Here's your, here's your punishment. Write a paper on it.

21:59Speaker 2:I loved that. Um, Someone wrote, hey, Cornell, it's S-A, S-A, not S-A. I thought you guys were in Ivy League school.

22:07Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

22:10Speaker 1:There were so many badass, like, threads that were coming through on my page. Like one girl that was like, I hope you're educating your son not to sexual assault because I'll be teaching my daughter how to kill.

22:25Speaker 4:By the way, yes. Those are the kind of responses I want to see.

22:29Speaker 3:Yes.

22:29Speaker 2:That A plus.

22:32Speaker 5:My daughter, if she decides to go to school, either London or Riley, they'll be carrying around bear spray.

22:36Speaker 4:How about that?

22:37Speaker 3:Yeah.

22:38Speaker 2:Your son is now blind.

22:39Speaker 6:Okay.

22:41Speaker 1:Just as women, and during this time of reflection, what have you found is most important for you to do as a woman, a mom, for your friends?

22:54Speaker 2:Um, Amber, do you want to go?

22:57Speaker 4:Yeah, I think.

23:00Speaker 5:Having a daughter to obviously two daughters, but especially with my middle school, like I'm really, I set her down at the end of my bed and I, I just said, Riley, you know, that I, we were talking about drugs. We're talking about boys. When we go to, we're in bar mitzvah and bar mitzvah season. So when the boys want to take you or the girls want to take you and try to get you to do something or take a pill or do something sexually or everyone wants to play a game, like how important it.

23:30Speaker 4:Is to say no.

23:31Speaker 5:And if you lose friends along the way, that is okay. You are going to lose friends no matter what, even when you're not being pressured to do things. So I think for me, having daughters, it's no means no.

23:45Speaker 4:And you have to speak up. And I will always, always. always protect you, always.

23:51Speaker 2:I love that.

23:53Speaker 5:Yeah.

23:54Speaker 3:Sally? I think it's just important for everyone, like especially women, to stand behind each other and to believe each other and to not judge each other and to be like welcoming arms for someone that has gone through that. Because I know, I mean, I didn't even, I didn't even tell my best girlfriends because I was so ashamed. And I think it's important to just know that we're behind you if you have been through this. And I think more women need to be that way and to just believe the woman because it's a hard thing to go through and it's a hard thing to talk about. Yeah.

24:41Speaker 2:I mean, I think that that was perfectly said, Sally. Thank you. I second everything that you just said. I second everything... that you just.

24:49Speaker 1:Said I am very proud to call you both my friends um oh my god you're gonna make me cry I'm very proud to be able to come in here and and do podcasts that are impactful and meaningful I really love you both a lot and you know we're really all we have so I'm just um really sad about everything that's happening if you are Jane Doe I hope you know that we back you 100 percent um I'm so sorry I don't know why I'm crying like.

25:29Speaker 3:This because it matters that's why um it's just everywhere it's like all around us and you just don't even know sometimes.

25:38Speaker 1:No I know you're right we believe you And we are really grateful that you listened to this episode of Untraditionally Lala, An Unlikely Affair, Sex Unlocked.

25:51Speaker 4:We love you a lot and we'll catch you guys next week.

25:53Speaker 1:Bye.

25:53Speaker 2:Thanks, guys.