The red & green flags of fatherhood

0:00Speaker 1:We expect more of women than we do of men, and so when a man is really good in the home.

0:04Speaker 2:You're like, I've had a good one.

0:05Speaker 1:It's equal, But technically, like Haides and I on paper, we're not still equal. Like I still definitely carry a little bit more than him. It's not as much as other people. Yes, but you know what I mean, it's not fifty to fifty down the line. No, no, no, no, but I think we think it is because it's better than we see out there in the world.

0:19Speaker 2:Worlds right, But you can also get into this trap. We're like, oh, but I've got a good one. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the boon Warong people of the Kulin Nation, the land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters, always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Hello and welcome.

0:36Speaker 3:It's already or not?

0:37Speaker 1:The show where two mums tried to figure out how to make work work. I'm Lou and I'm was And coming off on today's show, Red Green or just normal? Should we be applying red and green flags to relationships? And if so, what are some of the ones that you our community have come up with?

0:54Speaker 2:Laws?

0:54Speaker 3:That you're bringing that to me, and I can't lie and then me to you.

0:58Speaker 1:What I've noticed about mums who seem less stressed. I would put us both in this category potentially stressed or non stressed, not stressed as in we get stressed by life, but I wouldn't call us people that stressed too much about the act of motherhood. And I've really enjoyed this pace. I think you will too. It's from substack and I want to get into it with you. But first, what's been happening. I actually haven't sat in these chairs for a while. People wouldn't know that, but we hardly runs.

1:24Speaker 2:We did reruns during school holidays. I think this shift happens when you go from kinder to school. I remember being in not me, I'm not me being you know. I remember of kinder, I remember the kids being kinder and thinking, oh, school holidays is such a drag because there's not that many activities for three and four year olds to do. They don't have the programs, but they also don't at that age have a really strong connection to friends, like they play really independently, so it's kind of when you have playdates, you're doing a lot whereas at school for school holidays they start to have more cement friendships and the holiday programs are great. And I have absolutely loved school holidays.

2:09Speaker 3:So what's it looks like? Like, what's up to?

2:11Speaker 1:Like, it's been playday, it's a holiday day something year, and then she's home for the other half of what sort of things.

2:16Speaker 2:She's done a lot of school holiday programs. I took them to see Disney on Ice and it's rebated, so I was like, no, hollo, rebate starts so out of pocket can be as little as eleven dollars, Oh my god, Disney on Ice to as much as one hundred and forty That's it's unbelievable.

2:33Speaker 1:And what you'd pay like nearly two hundred dollars to anyway, Yeah, amazing.

2:38Speaker 2:So I thought that was incredible, and she obviously loved it, and I just to be honest, I found it really nice not to be rushing in the morning, because that's the.

2:47Speaker 3:Thing be at my desk till nine.

2:50Speaker 1:It's all those things that happened before nine that can be like so fucking stressful. I am shocked at how hard it is to get two kids out the door. Like I'm always been a quick person and relatively organized.

3:00Speaker 2:Blah blah.

3:00Speaker 1:Yeah, I am the slowest first to get out of the door with my kids in the morning.

3:04Speaker 2:Also, school holiday programs, I'm like, if you want to go dressed as a beer yeah, slippers on and a rainbow coat at your school, there's no pushback on you. They just do whatever they want. I don't care. And it opens at sevenot thirty. It's much earlier than school.

3:19Speaker 3:So I'm like, there's more. It's not like a specific dropper.

3:23Speaker 2:No, I've absolutely loved her. I really enjoyed it. I mean I am at the tailor now and I'm a bit like.

3:27Speaker 3:All right, the last few days definitely drag.

3:30Speaker 2:It's time. Yeah, the last time is definitely dragged. I also just want to quickly say I am absolutely loving the age of my children right now.

3:39Speaker 3:Okay, so we're nearly slutely FROs it.

3:42Speaker 2:We're nearly six Xavi is three and a half and Gus is just over one and he can't yet walk. And I went for a walk the other day with the kids. They were all in the pram. We did LightScape as well, which was phenomenal. Absolutely love outdoor. Yeah, while we're staying out like missing you know, a nearly it is the most beautiful age for eight children. I think three and a half is my peak. Three and a half, to all ages, is the best six months of my entire life. Every time I love it, I profit so hard. Gus is so happy. He's not walking, he's not into everything. It's perfect, is inquisitive. I'm like, how lucky am I? And I don't normally boast. I'm only bitching about my children, how annoying they are. So I thought, I'm going to take this moment to boast how lucky am I that I have such a great little mesh for the next forty eight hours before they kill each other and something happens. Let's just acknowledge the goodness.

4:35Speaker 2:Let's celebrate the w I've also just gotten back into fitness. Love that. Yeah, I happened to Oh my god, I'm a runner. I've been meaning to bring this to the chauff. When Lisey sat down today, I go, you're looking quiet, spelt, your arms are looking toned, and you're looking good. She's like, I didn't want to say anything without running. I'm like, okay, all right, so you're doing for fitness not to make this all about me. I'm literally just doing polartis. That's great though, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling so kids.

5:05Speaker 3:You've got a one year old, Yeah, you work a lot. That's great.

5:09Speaker 2:To make room for it.

5:10Speaker 3:You're like, it's great for a week.

5:11Speaker 2:I feel weak, but it's good because I'm like, Wow, I could be so much stronger. One last really random thing before we get into your running journey. I have listened to a couple of podcasts this week. Number one is called Here, There, Everywhere. It's an excellent podcast and you're on it and I was also on it. It is really great, though I listened to it being it that's always nice. The other one is called wise Crack. I can't figure out if this rings a bell or not.

5:34Speaker 2:Oh my god, Lou, it's so good. I'm not even going to give you any other information.

5:41Speaker 1:Me like, because obviously we've got quite different podcasts. Happens No not for you week.

5:45Speaker 2:It's more of like a true crime which isn't you.

5:49Speaker 3:But I'm open, I'm.

5:50Speaker 2:Okay good and I got so into it. I think it's like six episodes that I binged them all in the worng day.

5:58Speaker 1:I think like it then if it mainly was in all six, I loved it.

6:01Speaker 2:It was so fascinating.

6:03Speaker 1:I do actually I like a crime series when it's an actual series, Like I don't like Case Far where it's like, and this happened to this, It wasn't.

6:10Speaker 2:Really a crime. It's very odd. It's about a comedian who does his stand up show and it's like a therapy session. And the person listening in the crowd was like, oh no, I think this actually happened. Yeah, this sounds very mad.

6:24Speaker 3:I'm so good.

6:24Speaker 2:Okay, that's brilliant standard us I got for you.

6:27Speaker 1:I've just written here, thrived the first week, survived the second of school holidays. I have enjoyed it too, because work is flexible enough for me that I compare it back a bit. There's been a few meetings, actually, there's been a few stressful meetings working from home for freelance work, where like Ray got his toe stuck under a door and I didn't realize that it was bleeding every her and he was like hyperventilating, crying, and I.

6:47Speaker 3:Was like, what could possibly go wrong?

6:49Speaker 2:Making work work from home? So that wasn't good. And then this week we've just been so sick have not.

6:54Speaker 1:I genuinely haven't slept in five days, been up like newborn hours. It's not been my I was actually thinking, I don't think I've ever arrived at this studio as fresh soldiers.

7:04Speaker 2:I feel.

7:04Speaker 1:I said, you look great, you don't look fro but my vibe is very oft definitely, So that's me.

7:13Speaker 2:Okay, I'll get into some and I'm running, but I haven't run in two weeks. How far are you running?

7:19Speaker 3:The further STU I've gone is only five k's.

7:22Speaker 1:I'm not doing anything wild, but actually no, I want to shout out my friend Johnny. He started this Rye Relayed thing about four years ago, and it's all about like getting the community together without necessarily drinking, being at the center of it. And so there's like ten teams we run all around the peninsula and then we meet up for a drink at Penny at the end of it.

7:39Speaker 3:It's the best day. All of our kids come.

7:41Speaker 2:It's so fun.

7:42Speaker 3:I did run seven and a half case that day into split up. Okay, but it's making me feel good.

7:49Speaker 2:Good take too long.

7:51Speaker 3:Which is great.

7:52Speaker 2:Yeah, I always want to get into running, and I've thought about it meantimes and I did used to really enjoy it. Yeah, it's a tough one. I just I can feel my whole body hitting that pavement and I'm hard to start feeling.

8:02Speaker 1:And the only reason I started was because of this. Realized there's no way where I would have started otherwise. It's okay, there you bloody.

8:07Speaker 3:Go Wow, that's me.

8:09Speaker 2:I'll come up with something better next week. I'll give you a good news story. Oh I need one. From one July, which has just past, paid parental leave has increased from one hundred and twenty to one hundred and thirty days, which is twenty six weeks paid through Centralink at the new one thousand and four dollars and seventy cents per week rate plus twelve percent super paid. On top of that, a family taking the full twenty six weeks gets close to thirty K pre tax, which is a great start.

8:35Speaker 1:That's actually, like even that one thousand dollars a week is so much more than I got a week even four years ago.

8:41Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Like it's a big change. It's a big change. We're still not there in terms of the days, but it's better. It's way better.

8:48Speaker 1:Yeah, Like one book at that and feel like like there'd be mums from like ten twenty years ago that like.

8:54Speaker 2:Fucking hell yeah, is unbelieve it is.

8:57Speaker 3:So it's movement in the right direction, my friend.

9:00Speaker 1:And now we get on to your segment.

9:03Speaker 2:Talk to me about flags, red and green flags, what to look for in a partner before kids, big topic. So good, so good.

9:15Speaker 3:I cannot wait to see your damns.

9:16Speaker 2:Okay. A friend of mine sent me a voice memo the other day. Everyone in her group chat, and I think you can relate to this too, Lou. Everyone in her group chat was competing over whose husband was worse and hers is just good nice guy, helps out, gets shit done. And instead of feeling relieved, this friend of mine almost felt guilty for not having a horror story. And she was really pressed on it. Her friends were saying, surely there's something about your part of the drivers really were like, come on, give me something bad about it.

9:46Speaker 2:She's like, I don't have anything, as you I genuinely, which I was like, You're like, your friends are right, bitch, get something out, get something over, make up. But I do think there are times or like maybe it's a all our window. Maybe it's a week where I'm like, I don't have anything to moan about. Yeah, I've got great partners. He helps out, he does his bit. There's other ways, but you know what I mean, parents, he does equally what I do. But there are times when that isn't the case. Yes, have you because you love to big note hated in a good way. Yes, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing in a good way and preface it. And I want to preface it by saying, you're not saying, oh, he's amazing unpacking it is what you're saying, he unpacks it. Yeah, you're not glorifying for doing basic shit, but you do speak about it.

10:39Speaker 2:Have you ever felt guilty about a scenario like this where you've got friends bitching about the partners and you're like, hay doesn't do that all the time.

10:47Speaker 1:The other day this happened to one of my friends was like, Hayden's an angel, and I was like, very quietly, Yes, it's like I don't know what to say, like because I'm not going to sit here and boast about him.

10:56Speaker 2:And also it's not this thing where I'm going.

10:58Speaker 1:To be like your partner should do better. Yeah, you know, like that's not the conversation I want to have either. So it is awkward because anything you do say it sounds like you're putting other people's partners down. Yes, and also you might just also make your friend feel like should and then be like, well, my partner sucks and I don't want that either. So it is a really awkward conversation. It is I don't know much to say about him.

11:18Speaker 2:Yeah you don't.

11:19Speaker 1:Yeah, but she's still great, Yeah of course, yeah human, Yeah, exactly right.

11:24Speaker 2:But my girlfriend was saying when she was sitting down and thinking about it, she actually reflected and was like, it's so sad that some of my friends are having these experiences that are so subpar, Like it's almost not funny, it's shit.

11:39Speaker 3:It actually really saddens me.

11:41Speaker 1:If I see my friend get treated in a way that I'm surprised by I wouldn't have anticipated in a parenting dynamic, it actually makes me like set.

11:48Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how she said she felt. And she said, oh, you know, Las, on your podcast, if you're looking for segments, you should open up one that talks about people that maybe haven't had kids yet, or people that are looking to find or meet someone and having a conversation about what are the red and green flags before you partner with someone to have a kid, because it's so important. I was like, you know what, you're bloody right, of course I want to get some stats.

12:11Speaker 3:Good red flag is.

12:15Speaker 2:Picking well matters more than people admit, because almost one in two divorces, so it's a forty seven percent as it currently stands, involve kids under eighteen. So it's not just a relationship decision. It's definitely a parenting one. Yes, Like, once you have kids with someone, it's finalized that person in many cases is in you and your child's life. Yeah, for eternity. It's a very long time.

12:38Speaker 1:Yeah, it is like you actually don't really think about that when you get with someone.

12:41Speaker 2:No, you don't know if.

12:43Speaker 1:You just idealize the version of parenting that you think of, but it doesn't go beyond that.

12:47Speaker 2:Right, This is another stickler. I thought it was really interesting. Roughly three point six million Australians have kept living under the same roof as an ex mostly because they couldn't afford to leave, so the exit door itself has gotten more expensive.

12:59Speaker 1:I actually haven't thought of that in the context of the economy that we're living in right now, Like i'd honestly, if hates then I split tomorrow, I'd have to live with mom and dad for two years.

13:08Speaker 2:Why would you move in with your mom and dad? Well, because it'd been pretty good for me, true, do you know what I mean?

13:16Speaker 1:Like, we couldn't as things standing right now, we couldn't afford to, like to have a mortgage and a rental for example.

13:23Speaker 3:Yes, so that would be hard. That's tough.

13:26Speaker 2:The other thing that I think is quite fascinating with the start is that the load doesn't split equally when you're in it. Once you're in a relationship. So sixty two percent of women say their partners contribute less than they do, and only fifty seven percent of men say their partner contributes more.

13:42Speaker 1:Interesting, So two people, same house with a completely opposite reality, which do you think is more creative?

13:49Speaker 2:Back in the women?

13:51Speaker 3:Imagine if I got in here and I was like, I think the guy's arrived.

13:54Speaker 2:Is that funny? Though, you're in the same household and the way that you view it is completely different, oh, totally to the way that your partner does.

14:00Speaker 1:It's funny you say that because even when we did that sort of like State of Working Mum Report yeout midyear sort of segment that I did, and people were talking like there was a decent percentage of people that said it was genuinely even in their household.

14:11Speaker 3:And I've got to admit, I think it's actually less than that.

14:14Speaker 1:It's that we expect more of women than we do of men, and so when a man is really good in the home.

14:19Speaker 2:You're like, I've got a good one.

14:20Speaker 1:It's equal, But technically, like Hades and I on paper, we're not still equal. Like I still definitely carry a little bit more than him. It's not as much as other people. Yes, but you know what I mean, it's not fifty to fifty down the line.

14:31Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no.

14:32Speaker 1:I think we think it is because it's better than we see out there in the wild world.

14:36Speaker 2:Right. But you can also get into this trap we're like, oh, but I've got a good one. It's like yeah, and.

14:42Speaker 1:Good debate stand and do guys ever talk about like I really picked a good partner mate my foind does he does?

14:51Speaker 3:Does he actually say that like you did?

14:53Speaker 2:I mean, I'm not tooty my own hole, but I will he said the other day he had a really hard morning to go to work early and he had the three kids. And he messaged me afterwards and said, how the fuck do you do this? Yeah, he's like, I couldn't get into the office till ten. Yeah, welcome my friend. That night he came home, he's like, I really really appreciate you. I appreciate all that you do. Seriously, it was so hard this morning. I don't know how you do it, Like, how do you do it? Teach me your ways? You're like, sweetie, you should appreciate me, because it's fucking hard. Being appreciated is underappreciated. Actually that that's a good bade. Okay, So some green flags to look for before you have kids. Here's what the people have said. Oh great, and I want to talk about positives before we enter the natives. Number one and I've just summed these up. There was hundreds, like over four hundred responses, which I love summed them up. Already manages his own admin so Bill's appointments, family birthdays without being reminded or managed.

15:47Speaker 3:I love that.

15:48Speaker 1:I definitely used to play more of a managerial role in Hayden's life with like his parents' birthday presents and stuff.

15:55Speaker 3:Yep, and his sister would two.

15:57Speaker 2:Yeah.

15:57Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so I think that's a fucking awesome.

16:00Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a big one actually talks about you positively to his own friends and family, not just to your face.

16:05Speaker 3:I love that.

16:06Speaker 2:I love that. It's actually makes you get sad that that's a great way. Ye that's so true though.

16:11Speaker 1:Well yeah, because boys like depending on what circles you run in, Like if you think of especially about teenage boys, Like I'm like, the way that I tried to shape shift to be pleasing and make friends with teenage boys actually makes me sick.

16:24Speaker 2:Now. Yeah, has close, long term friendships, which I think is really important. Yeah. I feel like if someone doesn't have a long term long term friends or at.

16:36Speaker 1:Least just close friends, like don't know if it's you know, from their neu ni life or whatever.

16:40Speaker 2:Yeah, a nice circle. Yeah. Next one already cooks and does a shopping and planning that goes with it, not just the fun part.

16:46Speaker 1:Yeah that was a good so Hades used to do when we lived together before we got engaged or whatever. He used to do the shopping and most of the cleaning up. But I was definitely more the cook. But I love cooking.

16:56Speaker 2:That's fine.

16:56Speaker 1:I don't yeah about that, And I remember thinking, oh, you're active partners.

17:00Speaker 2:I've seen signs of a right next one actively wants you to have solo time and time with friends, so encourages Hayden Green Drag genuinely learns about female related health things, periods, the basics of pregnancy in your body before it's relevant to them, so they're curious rather than checked out.

17:18Speaker 3:Oh that's a really good one.

17:19Speaker 1:I'm really good about Hayden's wild curious about female health.

17:22Speaker 3:But he's not uncurious.

17:24Speaker 1:Yeah, but he's not a pulseed no and raised. Definitely curious because he guess, mummy, you've got your period.

17:29Speaker 2:You can't come in the bath to that cute, celebrates your wings and isn't competitive. Talks about future kids, using we when we have kids, so when you have kids, So this is future prospecting. He's open to seeing a doctor, a GP or speaking to someone when he needs to, and that's really important. Handle's being told something learned badly without getting defensive or shutting down love. So those are all things that people can look at this red flags.

17:55Speaker 2:Oh my god, these were some of them were so bad that I actually couldn't put them on here. I will talk about one though, red flags look at before you have kids? Doesn't return the shopping trolley.

18:03Speaker 1:That is such a good one, and that is a fucking red flag.

18:08Speaker 2:You selfish couldn't return it? Do you not return it? Is that why you laugh? I was gonna be surprised if you said nine ten times.

18:15Speaker 1:Though.

18:15Speaker 2:I'm like, I've got my dollar in there, and I'm so frugal. I'm I'm like, take my dollar.

18:21Speaker 1:Nah, I will always return the trolley so over the top that I won't take a good park if I think like there might be someone older than me that might want it, and I will go take a further away pack over.

18:31Speaker 3:All, right, got a green flag for me.

18:34Speaker 2:Already treats bills, cooking, cleaning as your job in the relationship you're in now before kids, raise the steaks. Yeah, yeah, avoids hard or uncomfortable conversations rather than sitting in them. Thinks he's entitled to a certain amount of sex, help or attention because he works hard. I mean, I know you laugh, but I that was very.

18:50Speaker 3:Kind of That feels so nineteen fifties to me.

18:52Speaker 2:There's a lot of messages like that I'm not gonna lie rude or dismissive to people who can't do anything for him, like weight stuff, retail or strangers.

18:59Speaker 1:That is that's the biggest red flag American I hates always talks to uber drivers or taxi drivers in the car, and I think that's a really nice and respectful sign of being a good person.

19:10Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll never get.

19:11Speaker 1:Two of my friends growing up, we always such bitches to taxi drivers and just thinking this is disgusting.

19:17Speaker 2:It is disgusting. It's a hard note for me obviously, any early signs of aggression, even mild towards you or anybody else. Yeah, this one was an interesting red flag. Obsessed with being seen as a nice guy.

19:26Speaker 1:I love that, like a pick mey guy. Yeah, like they're so nice. Is that a red flag?

19:33Speaker 2:I think I wouldn't.

19:34Speaker 1:Maybe not a red but like it's a nick I'd put on the eck list.

19:37Speaker 3:Maybe not red flag.

19:38Speaker 2:I can't it meshed with his mother, respect tipped into dependency, still drops things over to wash et cetera.

19:45Speaker 1:That is such a good one because there's a relationship with mum that we love to see because it's like it shows signs of respect for matriarchy and all that sort of stuff, But it can quickly go into like I am a little son.

19:57Speaker 2:Forever right uses a disabled toilet.

20:00Speaker 1:Our biggest red flag if you use that or just say we're cart spot.

20:03Speaker 3:Yeah, you need to have a good heart, look at yourself.

20:05Speaker 2:Yeah, doesn't say please and thank you? I mean we're ready. Yeah. Yeah, look, I was gonna get you to add some but I'm actually gonna do a quiz because I think that might be more fun. I know you're not feeling creative in terms of thoughts.

20:16Speaker 3:I do the more I spent time with you good.

20:18Speaker 2:I do want to preface this, and I want to be really clear. If your partner doesn't pull their way, that is on him. I hate the way we say sorry just quickly. Here.

20:26Speaker 3:I was in a conversation recently and we act like a wife.

20:29Speaker 2:Lets her have seen the signs. It's like, yeah, sometimes they're not there until you're in it. So I do want to point it out because I don't want this whole like victim mentality idiot for picking him, yeah exactly. I also do want to ask, though, have you seen a partner change for the worst after kids? In a way nothing beforehand predicted.

20:49Speaker 1:I'm nervous to say this because I don't want any of my friends to think I'm like either talking about them or painting a negative.

20:56Speaker 3:Light on their scenario.

20:57Speaker 1:But time and time again, I've seen men that I love and know not turn out to be the present dad.

21:06Speaker 2:Sorry.

21:06Speaker 1:They're good dads in the sense with their kids. Unbelievable in that sense, and they're so engaged with their kids. You spend a lot of time with them, a lot of them. I'm shocked at how little household I mean they do and all, yeah, that stuff, like I've been genuinely surprised by it because I did not see it coming. That's probably the only one. But they're all unbelievable. Like they're unbelievable with their kids.

21:25Speaker 2:Yes, so I'll give an example from mine because we've got to have a divorced friends. So it's really easy.

21:30Speaker 3:Oh that's because you can. I don't have to be nice.

21:33Speaker 2:I definitely saw signs, for sure, of behaviors that were not cool before they had kids, and once I had kids. Quite frankly, they just exasperate is another word exacerbate, exacerbated. Yeah, they've got worse and worse and worse. Yeah, the boys trips. They're having the annual boys trip, the trip to Europe, this, that and the other. I'm like, oh, fine, if you want to go together, but then when you have kids, mate, you ain't going solo for a month time.

21:58Speaker 1:It might be like a once in a lifetime but it's not like this is the regular thing.

22:01Speaker 2:And there's also not a once in a lifetime trip every month. It doesn't work like that, like it's literally once. So that would be something that I would just you know, oh, I think that's a good one look out for you get a quisbee, oh befoget his squez. I just want to quickly tell your story. Someone wrote in that their friend's partner wanted to do ayohwashka is that what it's called aahuascar iohuascar This is how bad my drug related knowledge is. And they had he wouanted to go on an ayahuasca trip retreat and she had a seven weeks old.

22:32Speaker 2:I was like, that's got a huge red time. I don't know what he's I don't I don't think they're together.

22:37Speaker 3:That is wild.

22:38Speaker 2:He was having some postpart of my identity cars. Wow, okay, so rapid fire for you, red flag, green flag all depends, follows lots of Instagram models.

22:46Speaker 3:The red flag still follows. His ex depends.

22:51Speaker 2:Okay, calls his mum every day.

22:53Speaker 1:That's fine for me if it depends. Oh maybe it depends again. I'm gonna put those a green flag.

22:58Speaker 2:I'm gonna say green flag. That's green fl for me. Has no close friends, it's red flag.

23:04Speaker 1:People that like that I love and care about that don't have wide circles of mates. They just have a few, but not men. Do they have close friends? Yeah?

23:11Speaker 3:I guess yeah, it depends for me.

23:14Speaker 2:People out there, No, I'm sorry. I don't need someone that has a village of five hundred, but you need one. There has to be one person that is like a outside of our relationship that you can talk to, that you hang out with. Anybody all of your energy into me too much? I don't know that. I mean, I'm not that wouldn't mind a bit more energy, Yeah, would be good.

23:35Speaker 1:Think about Hayden the other day, I was like, you really could communicate, like, just say nicer things to me more often.

23:40Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, But I would say that's red flag. You're saying it doesn't bother you. It depends.

23:45Speaker 1:It depends for me. Okay, no close friends, it's a hard one. Okay, fine, a.

23:49Speaker 2:Red flag has a female best friend. Depends, but probably red flag, Yeah, doesn't know your coffee order after six months together.

23:57Speaker 1:Red you don't give a fuck about me your coffee order. Yeah, I know my coffee order. One day my brother didn't know my coffee order, and I actually was like, right, mate, we fucking.

24:07Speaker 2:Grew in the same womb. That is so good? Is it not for you? No?

24:11Speaker 3:It depends. Did you change your coffee order?

24:15Speaker 2:No?

24:15Speaker 1:So then you're like, okay with them not hearing your months no order.

24:22Speaker 2:But I'm kind of a bit like, whatever, you know, I'll drink anything as long as there's no different type of milk whatever. I don't care. That's good. Doesn't drink depends. I would say that's a green flag. I actually wouldn't. I used to when I was younger, be like, that's a massive red viag if I meet someone doesn't drink. But the older I get, the more I'm like, they've greened.

24:42Speaker 1:If they don't drink for reasons that it doesn't agree with them and they're handling it, that's a green flag one hundred or sent.

24:48Speaker 2:Yes, Okay goes away with the boys every year.

24:52Speaker 3:What boys trips are so much more of than the girl's trips. It makes me sick.

24:56Speaker 1:It's easier. That's why I don't do as much lazistic on. Yeah, look once a year I'm okay with. In Hayden's context, so it gets good. So probably depends.

25:04Speaker 2:Okay says grocery shopping is not really my thing? Red has it never lived out of home?

25:10Speaker 3:Red red.

25:11Speaker 1:That's not fair because there's a bit of an element of like money depends.

25:16Speaker 3:I'm gonna say it depends.

25:17Speaker 2:Okay, it gets weird about buying tampons or pads, fucking red flag. Yeah, Like do you.

25:21Speaker 1:Think we enjoy being like, Hey, I just gonna put this up my vagina soon.

25:25Speaker 3:I'll give you ten bucks.

25:26Speaker 2:Agreed, it's a red flag. Doesn't want a dog because it's too much responsibility.

25:30Speaker 1:Look, I have a dog, and it is a lot of responsibility. So I'm gonna say that's not a red flag at all.

25:34Speaker 2:If you don't want a dog, good fing yeap is uncomfortable holding babies.

25:39Speaker 3:It's pretty like it doesn't I don't.

25:41Speaker 2:Think it matters. I was uncomfortable until I had my own. Yeah, I think depends. Yeah.

25:45Speaker 1:I just think if they're like not willing to hold like their niece or nephew, that's like, just get used to it.

25:50Speaker 2:Yes, doesn't post you on social media.

25:53Speaker 1:If they post, but they don't post you, that's a red flag.

25:56Speaker 2:Great.

25:56Speaker 1:If they don't post, that's a green flag. You're a king stop that keep not posting.

26:01Speaker 2:Doesn't own an iron.

26:03Speaker 3:That's fine because I don't know.

26:06Speaker 2:Green flag talks comfortably about future plans. Green flag is obsessed with work.

26:11Speaker 1:Well, I'm obsessed with work, so it'd be a bit unfair for me to I'd say it depends.

26:14Speaker 2:Okay, orders for you at a restaurant red, I'm going to go red, fascinating order for me, I don't want to st Okay, Yeah, okay, I would say early time.

26:28Speaker 3:It's not like a strong red for me, but I like, you know, you see they need.

26:31Speaker 2:To be consolidated.

26:33Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know this scene you can think of on like a date in a restaurant, and it's like the chauven has been like, osh, you will have this.

26:38Speaker 2:Yeah, Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, talks badly about every X that is a bit of a red flag. That's a huge red flag for me.

26:45Speaker 3:Yeah.

26:45Speaker 2:I think if you had a relationship with somebody and you can't speak positively or speak neutually around, just don't speak about it. Last one volunteers or coaches kid.

26:55Speaker 1:Sport, honestly, Jo Hayden, if you ever do that, that's a will fire away to Weekly Speaks.

27:04Speaker 4:Anyway, I just wanted to do a little segment I've read in Green Flags for a bit of a lull, people spend months researching the right PRAM and almost no time asking whether they've picked the right person to push it with.

27:15Speaker 1:I oh, great clothing, say that, and I don't know if we'll be able to get my coffing out of it, but apologies for that. We're gonna have to be quick with this next segment. Red Flags were bere No, it was fun. Let's get into it. What I've noticed about mums who seem less stressed. So this comes from a substack called busy being bridget I think a lot about this of like the stress mums put themselves under because they either they can't let go of something either because like society has told them that that's their ole or because they are a bit of like a mirmage in the household, and this post really stood out to me for that reason. So Bridget says, I recently posted a short list on Instagram about something I've noticed over the years.

27:58Speaker 3:Some mothers seem less stressed than others.

28:01Speaker 1:Not necessarily care free, not perfectly organized, not sitting in spotless homes while their children color quietly at the kitchen.

28:09Speaker 3:Table, just less stressed.

28:12Speaker 1:As someone who spends most days talking to women and my evenings raising young children, I've become fascinated by the habits and mindsets that seem to make motherhood feel lighter. And the more I think about it, the more I realize it has very little to do with personality. I'm not sure I agree with it having little to do with personality, but let's keep going. There are five things I've noticed. One they don't try to win every battle. They know which heals matter, and they save their energy for the things they truly care about and let go of the rest. My favorite question is what are you cooking for dinner? And I am here to tell you a lot of mums aren't landing on the most perfectly balanced meal, or maybe their child wore a mismatched outfit to school, or a bedtime happened thirty minutes later the plant.

28:52Speaker 3:The point is that not every moment requires correction.

28:55Speaker 2:Ah.

28:55Speaker 3:I feel like that is very your playbook and also mine. Yeah, like you just let go, like you not.

29:00Speaker 1:It is the most I don't know if my kids have had a coherent meal in the month, Like every meal, it's like, here's some things.

29:07Speaker 3:Yeah, just deep them or don't you won't.

29:10Speaker 2:I do agree with picking your battles. I think if you picked every battle you would be extremely stressed. I'm just exhausted and fun. Yeah, I want to have fun. Yeah.

29:19Speaker 3:I couldn't agree more.

29:20Speaker 1:Second, they let some things be good enough, And this is a hard one for me, she says.

29:24Speaker 3:I like things done well. I like a clean house and routines. I like order.

29:28Speaker 1:But I've noticed that the mothers who seem the most overwhelmed are often carrying impossibly high standards for every area of life. At the same time, I am lucky that, for some reason, I'm not that person that sets really high standards for myself as a mum.

29:41Speaker 3:In some ways, I.

29:42Speaker 1:Do like I want my kids to have a great life, but I don't expect everything to be amazing and perfect.

29:47Speaker 2:Do you notice with your.

29:48Speaker 1:Friends any correlation between wanting things to go perfectly and how stressed they are about it.

29:55Speaker 2:None of my friends are like that. Yeah, Like my closest friends are all somewhat similar to me. I am definitely more a type. I'm more of a perfectionist, but I surprise myself in the ways that I am. You still chill as a mum, though, which is really interesting. Not with my home though, so Like I'm chill with kids coming over and making a mess, But the minute everybody leaves, I'm not sleeping with that mess in my house. I don't care if I have to mop and vacuum until midnight. Yes, I can't wake up the next morning with a house that looks like that. For my own mental health, I cannot, so, I think, And that's picking your battle, That is picking my battle. Yeah, Because if I wasn't someone like that, I'd be cleaning as they were playing.

30:38Speaker 3:Totally have fun.

30:41Speaker 2:Well, I'd play with this box and then pack away. Do you know what I have found unbelievably fascinating for myself? So you know my level of cleanliness right, Like everything has a place bar ber. But when it comes to toys, I have a shill at of toys. They're all in buckets. I've bought like a few esthetically pleasing ones just for my own eye, but there's no write more reason buckets or baskets like baskets. Yeah, I'm just picturing you with all these tubs. No, not plastic. I like a little wicker or like a rope, feel that kind of things.

31:10Speaker 2:It's stunning. So everything goes in the same thing though, right, I don't have like soft toys versus cars, versus balls, versus whatever. Do you know what I've realized it sounds so sad with my head so much this. I have so many friends, so I've recently had two play dates. Both of these women are twenty five out of ten legends. And I have said, like I do as a good guest, this house is a shit show. This shit everywhere. Let's clean up. Let me help you. I can't leave you with this monstrosity. And both times that to these three people have said I can't let you do that because I have a way of cleaning up. Things need to be in certain things. I go, what do you mean, I'm like a shit everywhere. Let's just you've got so many buckets and boxes, let's just put it all in. No.

31:49Speaker 1:No, I like to go for the cars and the plastic things. This is for the fluffy things.

31:53Speaker 2:And I struggle because that innately at my core is who I am. But I cannot be that person at all.

32:01Speaker 1:Funny thing is about that is that I sometimes am that person and then my house just gets too trashed by the kids. But I can't stand putting soft toys in the same thing that like plastic toys, which is really interesting.

32:13Speaker 2:I can't understand people like that. Well, I just need to accept.

32:16Speaker 1:I've just learned that I need to let go because the kids aren't going to do that.

32:20Speaker 2:But also the kids where every kid you ever see gets that basket or bucket, Yeah, they don't tip it out. They just tip it out. So I'm like, why do you care what's in it?

32:28Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't keep doing it, but I hate looking at it.

32:30Speaker 2:I hate looking at it. I've really surprised myself. I'm like, you know what, for all of the pressure that I place on myself about doing things right, I'm like, fuck, I'm not that.

32:38Speaker 3:No, I can't be. No, I get it.

32:40Speaker 1:But I don't get there doing it every time, because you would just be doing You would be sorting through toys.

32:45Speaker 3:Your entire life.

32:46Speaker 1:But I hate looking at it, so I understand what they're talking about.

32:50Speaker 3:Third, they order groceries and more.

32:52Speaker 1:One of the biggest surprises for me has been realizing that many of the women who appear to have it all together aren't necessarily doing more. They're actually doing less, but in a think not hard away. They order groceries, they hire help when they can. Somewhere along the way, motherhood has become tangled up with the idea that doing everything yourself is somehow more virtuous, and I'm not convinced that's true. I'm the biggest proponent of this. I've got a membership for Wallies, and I do all of my online.

33:14Speaker 1:I pretty much do all my online.

33:16Speaker 2:I don't do all of my shopping online only because, yeah, for food, I like to do it when Ryan's home so that I can have like an hour where I duck out and I get all the things that I need.

33:26Speaker 3:Because you like to hunt the specials.

33:30Speaker 1:Together, let meet you an awfull.

33:35Speaker 2:I also like to pick my own fruit and vegetables and my meats and stuff that's so fun. I don't like the fruits and vegetables to send to me. They're too green. That was way too green.

33:46Speaker 3:No, my kids can't eat that tomorrow.

33:51Speaker 2:A lot of ship, Yeah, like a lot. I do too. And I never feel real toy for having a night off my kids.

33:57Speaker 1:And I can't believe like, and I don't say this, I'm not putting down any people. I can't believe how hard some mums particularly find it to just have a night away from their kids, Like some people like it's so hard.

34:08Speaker 2:For them, and that breaks my heart.

34:09Speaker 1:Yeah, because I do think it makes your journey easier if you feel like you can have that time. Yes, one d percent two more here number four. They don't make being needed their entire identity. I think this is one of the biggest ones. And I hope no one takes offense to this, she writes, But I've noticed that the happiest mothers seem to maintain a small part of themselves that belongs only to them, and that's really hard to balance. Maybe it's a career, maybe it's a hobby, tennis lessons, maybe friendships. Their entire sense of worth isn't dependent on being needed every minute of every day, and because of that, they seem to show up with more patience and less resentment.

34:44Speaker 3:Does that ring true to you?

34:45Speaker 2:On thousand percent?

34:46Speaker 1:The people that I see struggle the most genuinely feel like they need to do every single thing for their kids, even in the relationship where the other partner is very capable.

34:55Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a control thing. Yeah, it's really hardy.

34:58Speaker 1:Like I don't discredit them. It's so hard to let go, and they's hard.

35:01Speaker 2:To let go. But if you don't let go, you're never gonna.

35:04Speaker 3:You're shackled by yourself almost of it.

35:06Speaker 2:You are, and you're never going to be able to step back out outside of your little bubble and enjoy it, like if you're in the weeds the whole time. It's so true. If you don't enjoy the final product.

35:16Speaker 1:It's almost like looking from a bird's eye view because you've had space to get away from it, like you've given yourself.

35:21Speaker 2:Breathing room to fire up.

35:22Speaker 1:Not analogy, We'll move on because that one was weird. Number five, they've accepted that someone will always be unhappy with their choices. This, I think is one of the hardest things for women, particularly to do because we always want to please. This one might be the heaviest hit us, she writes. People will always have something to say. You work too much, you don't work enough, you're too strict, you're too relaxed to have a sleep schedule. Kids don't need to sleep schedule. There is no version of motherhood where everyone approves. The mothers who seem less stressed appear to understand this question for you on this, If someone judges a parenting decision of yours, either indirectly or directly, what sticks and hurts a bit more and does piss you off that they've judged you or had a different opinion, And what doesn't?

36:06Speaker 3:What is just like, oh, god, bab I don't care if you don't do this.

36:09Speaker 2:I do it and I'm happy to do it. Oh, this is going to sound so losory. I don't think people do. Yeah. I think people sometimes judge around like food, as if I'm at the pub and the kids want an apple juice, I'm like, you can have an apple juice, like I don't particularly care. Or if we're on holiday and the kids want ice cream at ten am, I'm like, fine, have an ice have an ice cream, whereas I think sometimes people can be a bit more strict on sugar.

36:36Speaker 2:But I couldn't give a shit about that. I'm like, you do me. I mean, there's nothing that I can think of. It really comes to mind. That's really upset me that somebody else said the most hurtful things usually come from our own children. Interesting, like what like Sienna when she's really mad at me the other day, I've had like your kid being mad at you. It's so funny. It is funny, but there's different terminology, right, So she wanted to do so I said no. We interrupted into like a big argument. You never let me do anything.

37:04Speaker 2:I hate you, so it escalates, right, I hate you. I'm actually like whatever, Oh, I hate that because I know you're card of me. Like ten minutes, but she goes to me, you're a bad parent, And it genuinely made me so sad because instead of that being a reflection of behavior at the time, I feel like parenting is a continuous thing. So I got really upset. Obviously not in front of her, but I thought far out, what have I done in the five years of your life that has made you say that? Yes? And like, and it's so mean, and I don't mean to go.

37:39Speaker 1:Too deep on this or like make you feel another way about this, but I imagine if and when Ray says that to me, because he will, I imagine it's also like I didn't expect my kid to say that. No, I didn't raise you to tell me that I'm a.

37:50Speaker 2:Bad parent, exactly like I'm trying my best mate. You do get ice cream at ten am like other p what's out there? Yeah, but I think I probably take on board my kids feedback that more than I would other people. That definitely hurts me more. Yeah, which is.

38:04Speaker 1:Fair enough, And what if you had My most annoying thing has been around feeding and sleep with Posy, for sure, people trying to suggest different things when she was bottle refusing when she was always waking up, and people's definitely sort of suggesting that it was my fault that she wasn't a good sleeper, that they weren't trying to probably and I've probably internalized a little bit of that, yeah, but it was definitely that, like I didn't ask you for advice.

38:28Speaker 3:Yeah, this is hard, but like I just have an unsettled sleeper.

38:31Speaker 1:Right, He wasn't as bad, Yeah, he was amazing, but he wasn't as bad so like, and it made me It does make you really question like if you did the right thing with the way you went about certain aspects of like feeding and trying to give bottles and all of that, And then I just had to be like you had different kids, Like go back and look at what Ray was like. He wasn't like this, Yes, but that would be the one that has cut me the most of like being like, oh, that person's got a good routine.

38:53Speaker 3:If you tried that and you're.

38:55Speaker 2:Shut up my one more fucking and speaking of fucking enough love today's empisode. Please leave us a positive review and follow us on Ready or Not dot pod on Instagram. See you next week. M