Something is seriously wrong in the Northern Territory

0:01Speaker 1:I'm Daniel James and you're listening to 7am. One by one, the Aboriginal leaders, organisations and watchdogs the Northern Territory Government is supposed to work with are walking away. The Children's Commissioner has resigned, an Indigenous MP left Parliament after more than a decade and now almost the entire Aboriginal side of the Territory's Justice Policy Partnership has suspended its involvement. they're all making a remarkably similar complaint that the government isn't listening and the structures that are supposedly designed to give Aboriginal people a say have become meaningless. Today, National Indigenous Times journalist Declan Brennan on how relations got this bad and whether a government can tackle the territory's enormous problems if the people most affected no longer believe there's any point sitting at the table. It's Monday, September 14. Declan, it felt like a mass exodus of First Nation leaders in the Northern Territory these last few months. What can you tell me about the people who have left and what's driven them to that decision?

1:14Speaker 2:Yeah, so quite a diverse group of people other than Aboriginality. Charlene Musk, Child Commissioner. I'm an imminent barrister, former Crown prosecutor. She was child commissioner for several years. She walked away in the wake of the child protection laws.

1:30Speaker 3:There are a lot of issues with the child protection system that we're not addressing. This is a real distraction as far as I'm concerned from the underlying issues, the systemic issues. And I tried to explain that in the other submissions. So there's been attempts to help inform a more robust analysis review of the child protection system to ensure we're actually addressing the systemic issues. And that's all been sidelined now.

1:53Speaker 2:We've seen Yinyi Gula, who's been an independent MP from Malka, a Yolngu man, MP for 10 years. He walked away in the middle of August, basically citing an inability to work alongside the Northern Territory government. But he used some really pointed language, including some of their laws, as a slow genocide of Aboriginal people.

2:13Speaker 4:Arnhem Land Yolngu leader Yinyi Gula has resigned, blaming successive anti-governments for refusing to listen to Indigenous concerns, accusing the CLP government of passing too many laws that are dehumanising, oppressing and destroying our communities, contributing to a slow genocide. He's particularly angry about child protection changes deprioritising Aboriginal family placements.

2:42Speaker 5:They have always said, yeah, we think we know what's best for you.

2:46Speaker 2:And we've just recently seen the Justice Partnership suspend its actions for six months. I think this is a really important thing that doesn't get talked about enough, is that working alongside Aboriginal people is actually the basis of the Closing the Gap Agreement. And by suspending this body from these non-government organisations, which there have been seven or eight, is accepting that they're unable to work alongside the Northern Territory government in even remotely the same sort of capacity.

3:14Speaker 2:But we've seen land councils come out and say that the government are treating us like children.

3:18Speaker 6:So these withdrawals that we've seen recently.

3:20Speaker 2:Is perhaps the latest move of it, but they have been saying in terms of these larger or small.

3:25Speaker 6:Organisations for quite a while now that we've had enough.

3:28Speaker 1:So they're people from very different backgrounds and different positions, but they're basically saying the same thing, that we were supposed to have a meaningful role in these decisions and these processes, but we no longer believe we do.

3:41Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I think in the case of Miss Musk, it's a statutory role. that she was required to give advice to the government. She was putting out reports. She was very open in her, not criticism of a particular government, but criticism of systems and processes. Not only was she sidelined for most of it, but she was openly criticized as being political. Whilst in the case of the Justice Forum, their role is to have conversations with the government to what is meant to be on an equal footing. And it's become clear for quite a long time that that's not the case.

4:13Speaker 1:So how did things get to this point? When the CLP came to power just over two years ago, what kind of relationship did the government already have with Aboriginal organisations, leaders and independent bodies in the Territory?

4:25Speaker 2:I mean, I think we have to be realistic that the power and balance between governments and Aboriginal people, especially in the Northern Territory, is never going to be on an equal footing. That's obviously the reality. I think it had been better than it is now, clearly, but the relationship at least had a degree of communication and equal sort of partnership after the closing agreement was signed under the Morrison government. But the sense was that the Labor government had been falling apart. And I think we saw that as it came up to the 2024 election, that crime was a big issue. But the government was on its last legs, and we did see that when the CLP was elected. But to go back to your original question, I do believe that the relationship, whilst never was a lot better than it is now, or at least had the facade of equal conversation.

5:13Speaker 1:Yeah, so Leo Finocchiaro won the election promising to go much harder on crime.

5:18Speaker 7:Territorians have used their voice to stand up against Labor who have taken them for granted for far too long. Territorians have stood up against nearly two decades of escalating crime, an economy going backwards and the erosion of our once iconic lifestyle.

5:36Speaker 1:They introduced tougher new laws and as a result, incarcerations increase, more Indigenous youth are locked up and they're put in watch houses. Tell me about some of the laws and their impact, Declan.

5:47Speaker 2:Yeah, so ironically, actually, one of the landmark decisions that all the Territory Labor Government did was raise the age of criminal responsibility to 12. It became the first jurisdiction in Australia to do that. On the first sitting day of Parliament, the CLP, they reduced it back to 10, which as far as I know is the only country in the world or jurisdiction in the world.

6:05Speaker 6:That's ever done that.

6:06Speaker 2:But they ran on a tough-on-crime mantra, and their argument was things like that. They introduced some bail laws, some ram raid laws. There was some knife laws. That was all introduced very quickly. What we did see was a massive increase in a very short time of incarceration to now the fact that the Northern Territory, more than 1% of the population is incarcerated. The overwhelming majority of those people were Aboriginal. And about half of them are held on remand, which means they have not been found guilty of the crime they've been charged for. A lot of the people being held in inhumane conditions, 20-plus women in Alice Springs watch houses being held together in one cell, children, like 11-year-olds being kept in facilities where violent adult defenders are next to them with bright lights 24-7.

6:58Speaker 6:But on a.

6:58Speaker 2:Sort of a bigger stand, what you're seeing is a breakdown of any form of rehabilitation. And that's been ignored or it's been almost castigated as woke or an apologist offender. We've seen at one point quite a lot of paediatricians wrote in to the government saying that the damage that these laws are doing to children, and Leah Finocchiaro actually came out and was very open saying they can write letters to the cows come home, I'm not going to listen.

7:23Speaker 6:And almost Trumpian in their attacks on these.

7:28Speaker 2:People who are, by the way, a very broad spectrum of of people who are opposed to these laws, including family of eminent former barristers in the Northern Territory, of human rights lawyers, but also just land councils and everyday Aboriginal people.

7:45Speaker 1:And as these tough on crime measures have been rolled out, what are the Aboriginal organisations working in the justice system telling the government?

7:53Speaker 2:I think they've been saying the same thing since day one, which is if you lock up people willy-nilly, they will not get rehabilitated. especially younger people. If you treat them the way that they're being treated, it will make the territory more dangerous in the future because you will give young people, make them hardened criminals. One thing that isn't discussed too is a lot of these children, especially who are being locked up, have severe disabilities. We're talking fetal alcohol syndrome. We're talking a lot of them have gone through child protection. A lot of them have cognitive disabilities and intellectual disabilities. There is no help for these people.

8:32Speaker 2:These very vulnerable children who should be supported are being thrown in facilities designed for the worst offenders. And all that is doing is going to make them bad offenders in the future. But there doesn't seem to be any thought about their future or the future of the territory.

8:54Speaker 1:Coming up, the law change advocates say could lead to another stolen generation. Declan, the breakdown hasn't just been confined to justice policy. Earlier this year, a crisis in the Territory's child protection system opened up after the death of five-year-old Kumanjai Little Baby, and the government moved to overhaul the system. Can you take us through what happened and what the government started to roll out in terms of its reforms to the child protection system?

9:29Speaker 6:Yeah.

9:29Speaker 2:I mean, very briefly, the death of five-year-old Kumanjai Little Baby was an absolute tragedy. I think we've seen it she was allegedly abducted and murdered, and we see a man who's being held currently in custody, and that will go through the courts. But the government, in the wake of that, released legislation around child protection that they had canvassed for more than 12 months. We saw these laws, this overhaul went to a parliamentary inquiry, and the overwhelming majority of organisations, individuals and experts completely oppose it. Of the 150 submissions, 120 were completely against the law. They had a day of hearing, which one person told me yesterday was just a ticking box exercise, and then the government-dominated inquiry recommended they pass. There hasn't been, I don't think for a long time, the level of hostility from people about it, as I think many people expected. The NT is often out of sight, out of mind, but the blatantness of passing these laws with so many people opposed was second to none. And the government, in many ways, was very disingenuous. Anytime there was criticism, it came along

10:41Speaker 2:the lines of, oh, don't you care about children?

10:43Speaker 6:Right.

10:45Speaker 2:Leah Finocchiaro at one point said she doesn't have to justify these policies. She's trying to help children. She's almost saying the quiet part out loud.

10:52Speaker 8:I mean, for goodness sakes, I don't have to justify this. This has been done with the best interest of a child at heart. The CLP is putting the safety of a child first. If everyone else is putting culture above safety, then that's a matter for them. I'm not apologising for it. This is done. It is law now and we are implementing it. And that's the end of the story.

11:15Speaker 1:And I guess at the heart of the concern is that the government changed child protection laws in a way critics say weakened the requirement to prioritise Aboriginal family, kin and community. And the fear from their perspective is that this could lead to another stolen generation.

11:30Speaker 6:Absolutely.

11:31Speaker 2:That's the entire basis of it, is that this child placement principle was brought in after the Bringing Them Home report, which canvassed and spoke about the experiences of members of the stolen generation.

11:44Speaker 6:And it has been completely... disregarded the.

11:46Speaker 2:Government might pretend it hasn't but that is the reality of what it is and the fears are real we've seen uh recent aboriginal child commissioner suan hunter say basically this that the removal of this principle makes the likelihood of another stolen generation much more apparent and that's not a a hyperbolic fear that's a real concern especially with a government that has seemed to disregard the concerns of others.

12:13Speaker 8:The decision is a bad decision by Leah Finocchiaro, the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory.

12:18Speaker 3:Let him go!

12:22Speaker 5:The Northern Territory's new administrator has officially been sworn in in Darwin after weeks of controversy over his appointment.

12:30Speaker 1:There was another flashpoint earlier this year, not to do with policy, but with the appointment of David Connolly as the NT's administrator. Why did his appointment cause so much anger amongst some people?

12:42Speaker 2:Yeah, so David Connolly's role as the administrator, that is the equivalent of a state governor or the federal governor general.

12:48Speaker 6:He's the king's representative.

12:50Speaker 2:Former tweets had come out of him being highly critical of Aboriginal people to the point of what a lot of people would.

12:55Speaker 6:Describe as racist tweets.

12:57Speaker 2:And.

12:58Speaker 6:The response was pretty visceral.

13:00Speaker 2:We saw protests outside Parliament featuring federal politicians, including Ligyari MP Marion Scrimshaw.

13:06Speaker 5:When he made the comment, if I wasn't so rooted, I'd go home and beat my wife. Now, for a lot of women, you know, in the Northern Territory, we have high levels of domestic and family violence. Comments like that is completely offensive.

13:21Speaker 2:And we saw people openly calling, why is this happening? The territory is a third Aboriginal, far more than any other state or territory. And you've got someone representing them as the council to the king who has said things that are truly disgusting. And not just about Aboriginal people, about the LGBTQ community.

13:41Speaker 4:In a plethora of social media posts, David Connolly has criticised Indigenous welcome to country ceremonies. and questioned whether female athletes are really men. He joked about going home to commit domestic violence, so-called prison man-on-man love, and using the drug rehypnol for rape.

14:01Speaker 2:It wasn't that long ago that that would have immediately been a get rid of and we'll find somebody else. But the government sort of doubled down, said this guy's a great person, everyone can make mistakes, even though at the time he had not apologised for these mistakes.

14:13Speaker 3:Yeah.

14:14Speaker 2:And it really did cause a large consternation. And I think it was the openness of the fact that somebody who had said such appalling things was just being greenlit to take on a very highly paid statutory position without any sort of care about the community. And we did see the land councils come out and openly say, we're not going to talk to him. We're not going to deal with him. And you sort of wonder then what sort of relationship this person who's meant to deal with all territories can have when a significant.

14:42Speaker 6:Part of the population... has been previously victimised by him.

14:46Speaker 1:So where do you see things going from here, Declan? There seems to be a complete breakdown between a lot of Aboriginal organisations and the government itself. With the breakdown of those relationships, what does all that mean for things like self-determination?

15:00Speaker 6:Oh, I think it wrecks it, disregards it completely.

15:06Speaker 2:So the future is pretty, I don't want to say bleak, but it's tough to see where the next step is because... One of the biggest surprises, I suppose, has been the lack of care from the CLP government when these criticisms have come out, when groups have withdrawn, when open criticism. Normally, even if it's lip service to try and fix these things, and it hasn't. They've just shrugged their shoulders and gone, well, we'll just move along without you. So there is a real worry, I think, that the longer this goes on, the longer this government, halfway through its parliamentary term, operates without sort of a sense of boundary towards Aboriginal people, that things will only get worse. And you also have to look at the dichotomy that in the CLP government, there is not one Aboriginal MP. They're making decisions for Aboriginal people, whilst on the Labor side, whilst they don't have many people in.

15:58Speaker 6:Parliament, all but one are Aboriginal.

16:01Speaker 2:Now, there is a call from a lot of people, not just in the NT, but across the country, for the federal government to get involved in some aspects. The federal government or the Commonwealth... funds 80% of the Northern Territory, far more than anyone else. They also have more legislative levers because it is a territory, not a state. There's also been legal advice to say that they can get involved in some parts of youth justice so Australia can meet its human rights obligations, which the Northern Territory is not doing, especially around youth justice and raising the age.

16:30Speaker 2:But if that doesn't happen, and the Prime Minister has been pretty open that it's unlikely to, it's tough to see any any positive. I think the people on the ground are working incredibly hard. You talk to them regularly and they come out and they're sort of, they are hopeful. But when Charlene Musk resigned, she said that she had just been broken down, basically. She had no more to give because she had been so open in trying to support children and nobody was listening. And I think that is the reality for a lot of groups, big and small statutory or not, that nobody's listening.

17:06Speaker 1:Declan, thank you so much for your time.

17:07Speaker 6:Appreciate it. Thank you.

17:11Speaker 1:This episode is part of a special week of coverage by Independent Media, putting a spotlight on the Northern Territory, a part of this country which is too often overlooked. Also in the news, Pauline Hanson is copying criticism from Labor and Liberal MPs over some resurfaced comments she made about Anthony Albanese's dead mother. Hansen said it wasn't on that the PM's mum had lived in public housing for decades, saying housing commissions should have a limited time frame. The PM has hit back saying he's stunned at the comments and that his mother was way out of Pauline Hansen's league, while Liberal MP Andrew Hastie says Hansen should leave mums out of it. An anthropic boss, Dario Amodei, has called on AI companies to slow down their development. He worries rogue AI agents could be capable of taking over the entire internet within 6 to 12 months, calling for greater oversight.

18:11Speaker 1:OpenAI boss Sam Altman and Elon Musk, who owns XAI, have chimed in, saying they agree that we need to pace the new frontier. I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening to 7am. We'll be back tomorrow.